Scripture in Context
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quietthinker
Well-Known Member
ahhhhh, those with ears! .....as opposed to those with mouths.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Well the writer is discussing the LAW of Moses, which he references in vs. 28.
So he is discussing the Old Testament sacrifices, then contrasts that with Christ's final sacrifice in vs. 29: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace.
Hebrews is speaking to Hebrew Christians who are coming out the Old sacrificial system. Some still may be caught up in it. This message was not to Gentile believers who did not have the same history, did not have the sacrificial system, did not share in the blessings, knowledge and Spirit of God.
So for the Hebrews (who sometimes sinned willfully but came with sacrifices with sacrifices) coupd now no longer so that; so if they do not receive Jesus' once and for all sacrifice, and consider it unholy, they fall away and lose whatever they had.
The Book of Matthew speaks a similar message to the Jewish Christians and Jewish unbelievers: Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
Matt. 25:37-38
These aren't Christians pleading with the Lord, these are Jews pleading with the Lord ( who thought they had a relatiinship with God). They rejected Jesus and did not help Christians during their lives and Jesus says to them, Away from me, I do not know you ( didn't have a relationship with them).
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Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
I think the concept that "salvation can be lost" is not only a contextual problem but it's deeper, it's tied to the misunderstanding of the Doctrine of Election.
The elect are chosen by God. He is sovereign and doesn't change His mind. Some could say branches were cut off the Vine, yes, but they were elected for a different purpose.
The Doctrine of Election has caused confusion and division.
Simply, God has predestined us to be saved.
Elect means chosen, determined beforehand, ordained before time.
John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
It says it all right there. We can't choose to come to Him unless He first draws us.
Romans 8:28-30. And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
Ephesians 1:4-5. just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons and daughters through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion” (Romans 9:15).
Does the potter not have the right over the clay, to make from the same lump [of clay] one object for honorable use [something beautiful or distinctive] and another for common use [something ordinary or menial]? Rom. 9:21 Amplified version.
Well, there it is. Wrestle with it all you want. It is as it says - above your ability to choose God by our own free will, which btw is not free! We are either slaves to God or slaves to Satan. We are free to make some choices that fall within the perimeters of His plan. If we really had a free will, there could be no judgment upon death, we could freely choose where we wanted to go -- float around like Casper.
But we still need to go deeper.
The controversy arises from man's inability to understand what the Sovereignty of God really means. Man sees himself as a free agent, a free thinking and willful soul. He sees life as a journey filled with choices that he seems to have freedom to make and also consequences that he has to pay for, because he made those choices.
The Bible seems to give us a choice to believe in Christ or not. We are told to spread the Gospel to the world in order for them to see the LIGHT and make a decision for Christ.
But if we are spiritually dead and blind, how is this possible? We are positionally dead and incapable of spiritually transforming ourselves or even seeing the Light, we are blind. Therefore God, in His mercy, gracefully draws us to Himself and enables us to see and receive His guidance. He lifts the veil of blindness. We can't lift the veil, it is a spiritual veil and requires God to do this. And again we don't even realize that we are blind. We don't realize much of anything beyond our physical realm until He enables us.
Throughout church history, there have been two main views of the Doctrine of Election:
1. He chooses us based on His foreknowledge of what our choices for or against Christ would be. This can't be right, because it would then be based on our decision, invalidate the meaning of His sovereign election and diminish His will in the matter. And any previous elaborate plan He had for us is also uncertain, a contingency plan at best, something that may fail. Can you imagine, God failing to save those He intended?
2. He predestined us based on His will only. It is by grace. And faith itself is a gift. This was Augustine's view.
So God chooses us first. Predestined us, lifts the veil
to enable us to see, draws us to His word and persuades us. >> Then we say yes LORD. Yes, I agree with your plan for me. And this plan was an elaborate orchestration of events and people that came into your life, designed specifically for you, to happen at predetermined times, a series of these events, lessons needed, to prepare your heart for that divine appointment. But man thinks his choice was thoroughly and logically done by his own soul, free will, rational mind - how arrogant and foolish. All our thoughts about this are not self generated. God guides us and leads us to our divine appointment, then transforms us. We could not, nor are we capable of getting there without His intervention.
If we freely chose God ourselves without any assistance from Him, He isn't really saving us, we are saving ourselves. Ultimately, this view diminishes the biblical understanding of God's sovereignty and who He is, SAVIOR. Salvation then is at the mercy of the creature.
Jesus is the AUTHOR OF OUR FAITH. That means He planned it, every detail. He accomplishes salvation. He doesn't just make it possible that a blind person will stumble upon the right path, then rationally figure it out all by himself/ herself and make all the right decisions leading up to His door, knock on it, "Hello, I've prepared myself to receive your Word and come to the conclusion that You, oh Lord, are real and died for my sins, and so I'm ready for my transformation, thank you very much."
>> God chose Isaac over Ishmael and Jacob over Esau. “Though they ,(Jacob and Esau) were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad – in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls” Romans 9:11
God chose all the prophets, the disciples and ordained their mission before they were born. He chose Judas before he was born. Jeremiah ...
“Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you; before you were born, I sanctified you; and I ordained you a prophet to the nations.” Jer. 1:5
That's predestination, election!
Oh, you might say, that was just with the prophets. No, His plan for the world must includes all individuals, specifics, otherwise it is not a plan but a makeshift, uncertain plan that He would constantly have to redraft, change, alter in accordance to every which way man chooses to go. I think the Creator started everything with a finished concept.
There is yet another angle ( possibly related to this misconception of the Doctrine of Election! Half of all Christians believe in this Theistic Evolution ( mostly Catholics). Buts that's another can of worms I don't care to open.
The elect are chosen by God. He is sovereign and doesn't change His mind. Some could say branches were cut off the Vine, yes, but they were elected for a different purpose.
The Doctrine of Election has caused confusion and division.
Simply, God has predestined us to be saved.
Elect means chosen, determined beforehand, ordained before time.
John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
It says it all right there. We can't choose to come to Him unless He first draws us.
Romans 8:28-30. And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
Ephesians 1:4-5. just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons and daughters through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion” (Romans 9:15).
Does the potter not have the right over the clay, to make from the same lump [of clay] one object for honorable use [something beautiful or distinctive] and another for common use [something ordinary or menial]? Rom. 9:21 Amplified version.
Well, there it is. Wrestle with it all you want. It is as it says - above your ability to choose God by our own free will, which btw is not free! We are either slaves to God or slaves to Satan. We are free to make some choices that fall within the perimeters of His plan. If we really had a free will, there could be no judgment upon death, we could freely choose where we wanted to go -- float around like Casper.
But we still need to go deeper.
The controversy arises from man's inability to understand what the Sovereignty of God really means. Man sees himself as a free agent, a free thinking and willful soul. He sees life as a journey filled with choices that he seems to have freedom to make and also consequences that he has to pay for, because he made those choices.
The Bible seems to give us a choice to believe in Christ or not. We are told to spread the Gospel to the world in order for them to see the LIGHT and make a decision for Christ.
But if we are spiritually dead and blind, how is this possible? We are positionally dead and incapable of spiritually transforming ourselves or even seeing the Light, we are blind. Therefore God, in His mercy, gracefully draws us to Himself and enables us to see and receive His guidance. He lifts the veil of blindness. We can't lift the veil, it is a spiritual veil and requires God to do this. And again we don't even realize that we are blind. We don't realize much of anything beyond our physical realm until He enables us.
Throughout church history, there have been two main views of the Doctrine of Election:
1. He chooses us based on His foreknowledge of what our choices for or against Christ would be. This can't be right, because it would then be based on our decision, invalidate the meaning of His sovereign election and diminish His will in the matter. And any previous elaborate plan He had for us is also uncertain, a contingency plan at best, something that may fail. Can you imagine, God failing to save those He intended?
2. He predestined us based on His will only. It is by grace. And faith itself is a gift. This was Augustine's view.
So God chooses us first. Predestined us, lifts the veil
to enable us to see, draws us to His word and persuades us. >> Then we say yes LORD. Yes, I agree with your plan for me. And this plan was an elaborate orchestration of events and people that came into your life, designed specifically for you, to happen at predetermined times, a series of these events, lessons needed, to prepare your heart for that divine appointment. But man thinks his choice was thoroughly and logically done by his own soul, free will, rational mind - how arrogant and foolish. All our thoughts about this are not self generated. God guides us and leads us to our divine appointment, then transforms us. We could not, nor are we capable of getting there without His intervention.
If we freely chose God ourselves without any assistance from Him, He isn't really saving us, we are saving ourselves. Ultimately, this view diminishes the biblical understanding of God's sovereignty and who He is, SAVIOR. Salvation then is at the mercy of the creature.
Jesus is the AUTHOR OF OUR FAITH. That means He planned it, every detail. He accomplishes salvation. He doesn't just make it possible that a blind person will stumble upon the right path, then rationally figure it out all by himself/ herself and make all the right decisions leading up to His door, knock on it, "Hello, I've prepared myself to receive your Word and come to the conclusion that You, oh Lord, are real and died for my sins, and so I'm ready for my transformation, thank you very much."
>> God chose Isaac over Ishmael and Jacob over Esau. “Though they ,(Jacob and Esau) were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad – in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls” Romans 9:11
God chose all the prophets, the disciples and ordained their mission before they were born. He chose Judas before he was born. Jeremiah ...
“Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you; before you were born, I sanctified you; and I ordained you a prophet to the nations.” Jer. 1:5
That's predestination, election!
Oh, you might say, that was just with the prophets. No, His plan for the world must includes all individuals, specifics, otherwise it is not a plan but a makeshift, uncertain plan that He would constantly have to redraft, change, alter in accordance to every which way man chooses to go. I think the Creator started everything with a finished concept.
There is yet another angle ( possibly related to this misconception of the Doctrine of Election! Half of all Christians believe in this Theistic Evolution ( mostly Catholics). Buts that's another can of worms I don't care to open.
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Truthnightmare
Well-Known Member
1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
Individual messengers? So even we you see the word “churches” you change it to a single person.
Truthnightmare
Well-Known Member
The word “church” doesn’t mean one single individual, not to mention many churches didn’t have a pastor, they had elders.
Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.
God hated Esau before he left the womb, perhaps Esau had already done bad.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
No, Romans 9:11 doesn't say that. Jacob and Esau were chosen for a purpose. Judas was chosen long before he was born to betray Jesus with 30 pieces of silver ( Zech. 11:12-13)
It is God's prerogative, His purpose that some are used in ways that are painful and destitute, apparently void of love, so that His Elect are shown the opposite and/or so that we can know the consequences of sin. We see babies born deformed or impoverished who die of hunger. We wonder, where is God and what was His purpose with this child. I guess we must look at what the parents did or grandparents? Were they godless, or worshipping false gods and practicing false religions, wicked and sinful and so they and their offspring were condemned? Sometimes we don't get answers. I think God loves the reprobates too for a time, then let's them go.
We saw that with Judas. Jesus loved him for over three years, showed no favoritism with the disciples, knowing all along he would be betrayed ... then He let him go to do his thing. Romans 1:18-28 tells us that God let's them go, (gave them over to their ways). His wrath comes at an appropriate time. Maybe his wrath is that dying baby? Or it could be a test of faith, for Christians suffer dying babies as well. ?? I do believe that if you have faith in Christ, your dying baby or even your miscarried fetus goes to the Lord and you will see them. I doubt that offspring born of reprobates will.
I think I've found my next list . . .
Much love!
Let's see what happens when we put these all into their contexts? Do they actually teach that all humanity will be saved?
Much love!
Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.
Universalism?
Let's look at Peter's entire sermon. Is he teaching that all people will be saved?
Acts 3:12-26 KJV
12) And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
13) The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14) But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15) And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
16) And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
17) And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18) But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19) Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20) And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21) Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22) For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23) And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24) Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25) Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26) Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;"
The implication here is that if they did not repent, were not converted, their sins would not be blotted out when times of refreshing come.
"22) For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23) And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."
Peter seems to be saying, repent, be converted, so that you sins will be blotted out, otherwise, you shall be destroyed from among the people.
Is Peter giving a conflicting message in vs. 21?
Acts 3:21 KJV
21) Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
What have the prophets spoken? That all will be saved? Or that some would be saved, and others condemned? However you understand "the restoration of all things", it must be in harmony with the prophets. What is the restoration that the prophets prophesied?
Much love!
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.
Universalism?
Let's look at Peter's entire sermon. Is he teaching that all people will be saved?
Acts 3:12-26 KJV
12) And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
13) The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14) But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15) And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
16) And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
17) And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18) But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19) Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20) And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21) Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22) For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23) And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24) Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25) Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26) Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;"
The implication here is that if they did not repent, were not converted, their sins would not be blotted out when times of refreshing come.
"22) For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23) And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."
Peter seems to be saying, repent, be converted, so that you sins will be blotted out, otherwise, you shall be destroyed from among the people.
Is Peter giving a conflicting message in vs. 21?
Acts 3:21 KJV
21) Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
What have the prophets spoken? That all will be saved? Or that some would be saved, and others condemned? However you understand "the restoration of all things", it must be in harmony with the prophets. What is the restoration that the prophets prophesied?
Much love!
1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Universalism?
1 John 2:1-4 KJV
1) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
There is a parallel passage,
John 1:29 KJV
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
The question to ask then is, does removing sins mean that all are saved? Does Christ's propitiation of the world's sin mean that the world is saved?
John 3:3 KJV
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Simply put, no.
Much love!
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Universalism?
1 John 2:1-4 KJV
1) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
There is a parallel passage,
John 1:29 KJV
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
The question to ask then is, does removing sins mean that all are saved? Does Christ's propitiation of the world's sin mean that the world is saved?
John 3:3 KJV
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Simply put, no.
Much love!
Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Romans 11:27-33 KJV
27) For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28) As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29) For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30) For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31) Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32) For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33) O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
God has used the unbelief of the Jews to incite belief in the Gentiles, and He uses unbelief in the Gentiles to incite belief in the Jews. He's shut them all up together in unbelief, that He might have mercy on all of them.
Is this a statement of universal salvation? Or is it a statement of how God is working between the Jews and Gentles to make sure they are all included in His offer of mercy?
Whichever way we answer this question, it needs to be in harmony with the rest.
Much love!
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Romans 11:27-33 KJV
27) For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28) As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29) For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30) For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31) Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32) For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33) O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
God has used the unbelief of the Jews to incite belief in the Gentiles, and He uses unbelief in the Gentiles to incite belief in the Jews. He's shut them all up together in unbelief, that He might have mercy on all of them.
Is this a statement of universal salvation? Or is it a statement of how God is working between the Jews and Gentles to make sure they are all included in His offer of mercy?
Whichever way we answer this question, it needs to be in harmony with the rest.
Much love!
Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,
For whatever reason, the one who compiled this list chose to cherry-pick translations. I continue to prefer the King James, and context,
Titus 2:9-15 KJV
9) Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;
10) Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.
11) For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12) Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13) Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14) Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15) These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
You can see how the ESV changes this.
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, - KJV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, - ESV
So then the reason for the cherry-picking is obvious, at least to me.
The grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all, compare to the grace of God has appeared, bring salvation to all.
Titus 2:11
(EMTV) For the saving grace of God has appeared to all men,
(KJV) For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
(LITV) For the saving grace of God has appeared to all men,
(YLT) For the saving grace of God was manifested to all men,
A parallel passage is,
John 1:9 KJV
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
But neither of these passages teach universal salvation.
Much love!
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,
For whatever reason, the one who compiled this list chose to cherry-pick translations. I continue to prefer the King James, and context,
Titus 2:9-15 KJV
9) Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;
10) Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.
11) For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12) Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13) Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14) Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15) These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
You can see how the ESV changes this.
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, - KJV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, - ESV
So then the reason for the cherry-picking is obvious, at least to me.
The grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all, compare to the grace of God has appeared, bring salvation to all.
Titus 2:11
(EMTV) For the saving grace of God has appeared to all men,
(KJV) For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
(LITV) For the saving grace of God has appeared to all men,
(YLT) For the saving grace of God was manifested to all men,
A parallel passage is,
John 1:9 KJV
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
But neither of these passages teach universal salvation.
Much love!
John 1:29 NIV
... The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,
“Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
However, this does not change Jesus' words, you must be born again.
A parallel passage,
Mark 3:27-30 KJV
27) No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
28) Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29) But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
30) Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
But you still have to be born again.
Much love!
... The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,
“Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
However, this does not change Jesus' words, you must be born again.
A parallel passage,
Mark 3:27-30 KJV
27) No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
28) Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29) But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
30) Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
But you still have to be born again.
Much love!
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