"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[ScottA]

I just wrote to you regarding this.
Don't you believe the Prodigal Son was "saved" before he left his home and father?

No. In fact, he was "lost."

 

[ScottA]

You never answered what IT IS FINISHED means to you.
We'll let it go...
till next time!
:)

It means that all that was before the foundation of the world, had been made manifest, revealed.

And now these are the days as they were in the time of Noah.

 

[BarneyFife]

It means that all that was before the foundation of the world, had been made manifest, revealed.

And now these are the days as they were in the time of Noah.

I thought it meant that Christ had finished all that He came to do. :

 

[ScottA]

I thought it meant that Christ had finished all that He came to do. :

Same, same.

 

[Taken]

No. Conversion follows true belief. You cannot sincerely believe and trust in Jesus and not be saved.

Disagree. And Why.

* A Conversion follows; A persons Heartful Confession.
^ That is a man WHO Becomes SAV-ED, then, before physical death.
^ That is a man WHO “IS” a member of Christ’s Church.
^ That is a man WHO “IS” signaled by the Trump of the archangel, (ie called up), off the face of the earth, to the clouds (ie called raptured), to meet the Lord in the air.
^^^ That applies to men Converted IN Christ....for the last 2,000 years to end of days.
This man is called....... SAV-ED once and Forever.


* Men can Believe, but NOT Heartfully Confess... AND
who Believe, at the time of their Physical Death, “God will Save their soul, quicken their spirit..... and Raise them After the 1,000 yr reign.
^^^ That applies to any man, from the beginning to the end of days.
This man is called........ SHALL be SAV-ED
This man is called; IF ALREADY physically Dead.... Sav-ed once and forever

 

[Taken]

It means that all that was before the foundation of the world, had been made manifest, revealed..

Jesus said “FINISHED”.......meaning ACCOMPLISHED.
Meaning ALL He was sent TO DO, (accomplish), He Accomplished.

The Importance of Jesus saying that WAS.......notifying the reader...
Jesus “fulfilled the prophecy”, spoken BY God, in ISAIAH.

Isa 55:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
(The “IT” is the Word of God, the “thing” it was sent to (a VIRGIN womb), in the Virgin womb as the “it” was prospering, “it’ was called...a “holy thing”.)

Luke 1
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(That “holy thing” would later be “called the Son of God”... also accomplished)


GOING FORWARD.....Prophecy Foretold......ONCE it IS “Accomplished”,
SHALL BE CALLED.......”DONE”.

Rev 21:
[6] And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

No. In fact, he was "lost."

Correct.
Lost...is having NO “commitment”.

Following something, IS NOT a “commitment”.
Believing something, IS NOT a “commitment”.

A “commitment”, IS BY a mans, “declaration (WORD), of Agreement”.

* God “ACCEPTS” a “commitment” declaration (by SPOKEN WORD, or BY Thoughts IN A mans HEART)

* Men “USE” to readily accept a mans “commitment” by Spoken word...
BUT NOW, men more often REQUIRE:
A mans WORD of Agreement AND WRITTEN Signature....and often,
Umpteen additional documents...that a mans WORD, Agreement, has been PROVED to be “honorable”.

 

[Taken]

Same, same.

Different words, meant same intent.
Gotcha.

 

[Renniks]

Disagree. And Why.

* A Conversion follows; A persons Heartful Confession.
^ That is a man WHO Becomes SAV-ED, then, before physical death.
^ That is a man WHO “IS” a member of Christ’s Church.
^ That is a man WHO “IS” signaled by the Trump of the archangel, (ie called up), off the face of the earth, to the clouds (ie called raptured), to meet the Lord in the air.
^^^ That applies to men Converted IN Christ....for the last 2,000 years to end of days.
This man is called....... SAV-ED once and Forever.


* Men can Believe, but NOT Heartfully Confess... AND
who Believe, at the time of their Physical Death, “God will Save their soul, quicken their spirit..... and Raise them After the 1,000 yr reign.
^^^ That applies to any man, from the beginning to the end of days.
This man is called........ SHALL be SAV-ED
This man is called; IF ALREADY physically Dead.... Sav-ed once and forever

Scripture disagrees with you.
We are seated in the heavenly places now. It's not just a future event.

14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only son.

 

[GodsGrace]

Just for the record, I do believe John Calvin was a great man of God. :)
I truly admire all of the reformers, especially Wycliffe, Hus, Luther, Melanchthon, Calvin, Zwingli, and the great Preachers of the two Great Awakenings: Chesterton, Spurgeon, Moody, etc.
It's a shame that Edwards's "Sinners In The Hands Of An Angry God" gained so much favor. While it does contain much truth, I reject outright that souls should be won by malicious threatening.
And, while I believe that the ultimate destruction of sin and sinners is fully an act of love, the Bible does call it "His strange act."

I'm not sure he was a great man of God.
His disposition was rather crude and he doesn't seem to have been a kind man.
From what I've read, he seems to have been very harsh and cruel with those that did not agree with him.
I'd say to imprisonment and banishment from his city of Geneva.

I do believe he was a great theologian and his sermons were admirable.
I'm sorry he believed as he did....He loved Augustine and mentions him all the time in his writings.
Augustine was different from the other Fathers...I wouldn't even refer to him as an ECF, which, IMHO, ended when the church of the time,
the CC, the universal church, became embroiled in governmental affairs and began to change to what it became - although I do know it's trying to change back (if that's possible) since it no longer has any power with states. (governments).

 

[GodsGrace]

Just for the record, I do believe John Calvin was a great man of God. :)
I truly admire all of the reformers, especially Wycliffe, Hus, Luther, Melanchthon, Calvin, Zwingli, and the great Preachers of the two Great Awakenings: Chesterton, Spurgeon, Moody, etc.
It's a shame that Edwards's "Sinners In The Hands Of An Angry God" gained so much favor. While it does contain much truth, I reject outright that souls should be won by malicious threatening.
And, while I believe that the ultimate destruction of sin and sinners is fully an act of love, the Bible does call it "His strange act."

P.S.
I didn't read Sinner in the Hands of an Angry God...
but the title reminds me of two atonement theories.
One would be propitiation and the other would be expiation.
Can't think of their titles right now.
The one of Propitiation, satisfying an angry God, came about at the reformation.
The theory of expiation was from the beginning of the church...

As to malicious threatening...how would that even function in the calvinist paradigm if it is God that picks and chooses?
No threats necessary...

 

[GodsGrace]

Scripture Has CAVEATS....
The Scriptures are full OF “IF”S....<—— caveats.

Will Jesus EVER reject ANYONE that goes to Him? YES....”IF”.

“IF” a man LIES to the HS.
“IF” a man comes to a door that is already closed.
(There is a time limit, on receiving Jesus’ Salvation)
“IF” a man Has taken the Mark of the Beast.

Scripture Harmonizes.

Jesus will accept anyone at any time.
THIS is the Good News...otherwise there is no good news.

The only sin that is not forgiveable is the sin of unbelief.
The sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit...
Of course, if we repent, even that sin can be forgiven.

Woe are we if we cannot go to God with sorrow and repentance for our sins!

1 John 2:1
1My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

 

[GodsGrace]

There is no conflict in the word. Unless I interpret it as you want me too


Heb 6 is speaking of salvation.

Maybe you do not want it to? I am not sure, but it does.

Repentance is an act of salvation

Unable to be renewed to repentance is unable to come to the point where you repent from whatever it is you believe in and return to Christ.

If they fall away is in regards to savation.

It's not exactly what Hebrews 6 is referring to EG.
If that is so, then all those persons that post on these forums that they are sorry they fell away and want to come back, cannot come back?
So then you not only agree that salvation can be lost...
but that a person cannot even return to God?

Hebrews 6 has a different meaning. I did post the meaning in length on a different post.
I think I tagged you in.

 

[GodsGrace]

Mainline christianity has been wrong since the 300’s BC

I know more than they did?

No, I know what they teach and I hold to what they teach, not some legalistic church that left its roots and turned to self righteousness

What do they teach about eternal security?
About works?

IMO, the ECFs go up to 325AD...after that things began to go awry.
But if you hold to OSAS then you have not read the ECFs correctly.
Could you post some of their sayings?

 

[GodsGrace]

The sad part is, there really is no different between those jews and you

They both believe you can lose salvation
You both believe salvation can and must be restored

Your name has the word grace in it Sadly you do not understand what that word means

OK
So you did read my post.
Those are not my ideas, BTW.
I'm not that intelligent or scholarly...
But there are those that are and Hebrews CANNOT mean that one cannot return to God.

Again, are you saying one can become lost AGAIN, and then CANNOT return to God?

Is Hebrews 6 all you have to go on?

And please don't get so personal as to tell me I don't know what grace is.
You don't know what I know or don't know.
Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

You are reading too much into the parable, and not enough. It's all conjecture, not the truth of the Spirit.

If you like it that way, as you say, so be it. Your terms.

Actually, that is a lot more to the parable..which you might be alluding to.

Also as to it being conjecture...I don't think so.
Jesus told the parable and He based it on what He knows to be facts.
It definitely is the truth of the spirit.

 

[GodsGrace]

No. In fact, he was "lost."

Whatever.
I'm not here to convince you.
What is Walking Like Einstein about?

 

[GodsGrace]

It means that all that was before the foundation of the world, had been made manifest, revealed.

And now these are the days as they were in the time of Noah.

I see that @BarnyFife , just below, already answered.
That would have been my answer too.
The work Jesus came to accomplish is finished.
God did everything He promised to do in all His covenants with man.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It's not exactly what Hebrews 6 is referring to EG.
If that is so, then all those persons that post on these forums that they are sorry they fell away and want to come back, cannot come back?

IF THEY COULD FALL AWAY

you might have a point. But since they can not. Your point is mute.

That is the point the author is making, If a person returns to the law. they are at the point they will never even attempt to return to Christ. Because they have been there done that. Thay will have hardened their heart beyond the point they could be renewed.

So then you not only agree that salvation can be lost...
but that a person cannot even return to God?

Hebrews 6 has a different meaning. I did post the meaning in length on a different post.
I think I tagged you in.

Nope. That's not what Heb 6 says.

And that's not what I said either.

Eternal life is eternal. It is given by Gods mercy and is obtained by grace through faith.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What do they teach about eternal security?
About works?

IMO, the ECFs go up to 325AD...after that things began to go awry.
But if you hold to OSAS then you have not read the ECFs correctly.
Could you post some of their sayings?

I could care less what they say, But I can tell you the mainstream church (the roman catholic church) that started in the 300's did not teach OSAS. and they burned any writings, and imprisoned anyone who believed otherwise.

So if your going to use history to try to disprove eternal security. Well your wasting your time. History will nt show it because the power of Rome would have shut it down if it did exist.