SALVATION: BY GRACE OR BY WORKS? A FALSE DICHOTOMY

[GRACE ambassador]

op: Salvation By Grace or By works?

Simply, A True Dichotomy:

"And if By Grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise​

Grace is no more Grace. But if it be of works, then is it​

no more Grace: otherwise work is no more work."
(Romans 11:6)​

​

Corroborated By A Wonderful Multitude Of Grace Scriptures, Given By God!:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST
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God's Eternal Assurance
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God's Eternal Life Insurance

Amen.

 

[Earburner]

Everything you have said is irrelevant--you either affirm what passages like Galatians 6 teach (and you already unknowingly have in citing Matthew 7), or else you reject it. I am not the wrongdoer here.

Mat. 7
[18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
[19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
[20] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
> What did YOU think I was talking about?
Of course it's about bearing fruit, the fruit of the Holy Spirit, which is the Perfect nature and character of God. Gal. 5:22-25.

 

[GracePeace]

Mat. 7
[18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
[19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
[20] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
> What did YOU think I was talking about?
Of course it's about bearing fruit, the fruit of the Holy Spirit, which is the Perfect nature and character of God. Gal. 5:22-25.

So, you DO affirm that men are repaid eternal life in due season in return for doing good works?

 

[Earburner]

So, you DO affirm that men are repaid eternal life in due season in return for doing good works?

No!!
Do you expect reimbursement for a "gift" that you have "purchased", to "give" to someone you "love"?

 

[GracePeace]

No!!

The words of passages like Galatians 6:6-10--words you want to reject, but then cite other passages, like Matthew 7, that teach the very same thing--unequivocally state that eternal life is a harvest reaped in due time by those who sow to the Spirit by doing good deeds.

Do you expect reimbursement for a "gift" that you have "purchased", to "give" to someone you "love"?

I already answered this argument before, and you chose to never answer it--just as you are not answering Galatians 6:6-10.

I don't really care to keep going back and forth on this matter.
I understand your position, you understand mine--you will restate yours, I will restate mine, and that cycle will just keep repeating itself. Not interested.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No!!
Do you expect reimbursement for a "gift" that you have "purchased", to "give" to someone you "love"?

Good luck

This person wants to purchase a gift.

He will fail.. In the end the lord will be justified in what he does

 

[Earburner]

The words of passages like Galatians 6:6-10--words you want to reject, but then cite other passages, like Matthew 7, that teach the very same thing--unequivocally state that eternal life is a harvest reaped in due time by those who sow to the Spirit by doing good deeds.

I already answered this argument before, and you chose to never answer it--just as you are not answering Galatians 6:6-10.

I don't really care to keep going back and forth on this matter.
I understand your position, you understand mine--you will restate yours, I will restate mine, and that cycle will just keep repeating itself. Not interested.t

I ask you again:
Do you expect reimbursement for a "gift" that you have "purchased", to "give" to someone you "love"? (You gave no answer).

Ok, now let's see how God performed with that situation of gift giving:
"For God so "loved" the world, that he "gave"
[to us] his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish [die], but have everlasting life.

> Did God expect reimbursement for the Gift that He GAVE to us?
No! Not only did God give to us His Son, He also "went the extra mile" to GIVE us more, the Gift of Eternal life also.

Q. So then, what does God expect of us, that we might have eternal life?
A. To believe in His Son!! WHY??
1 John 5
[11] And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
[12] He that hath the Son hath life;
and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
 Rev. 3
19] As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent [towards God].
[20] Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I [myself] will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
[21] To him that overcometh [death] will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
[22] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Back to Rom. 8:8-9.
[8] So then they that are in the flesh [only] cannot please God.
[9] But ye are not in the flesh [only], but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his

In brief, WE CANNOT purchase the Gift of God with OUR GOOD DEEDS!!!

 

[Spyder]

Does anyone else think Grace and Mercy are the same thing?

Yahweh established a New Covenant whereby we might be saved. That New Covenant was God offering grace to those who don't deserve it. The definition of Grace is "unmerited favor." So, by God's grace were can accept His salvation. However, we should not exclude Mercy, because we are justified by God's Mercy first. We cannot earn that Mercy. However, after we are justified, we should seek to be Sanctified. Sanctified means "to be made Holy." Holiness is to be set apart to God. How do we do this? By faith and obedience. We are told to work:

Jn 6:27–33 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform? Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’ ” Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.

The book of James was the source of debate thousands of years ago, because it appears to require "works" to be a Christian. Well, works are required of a Christian in order to be Sanctified. We don't have to work to get Mercy to be Justified unless we understand that believing in Yahweh and the One He sent is to be considered work. It actually should not because it is Yahweh who calls us to His Son. That is God's work.

After justification, we are obligated to work (i.e. Grow in God's grace);

1 Sa 15:22–23. And Samuel said,

“Has the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices,
as in obeying the voice of the LORD?
Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice,
and to listen than the fat of rams.
For rebellion is as the sin of divination,
and presumption is as iniquity and idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the LORD,
he has also rejected you from being king.”

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

In brief, WE CANNOT purchase the Gift of God with OUR GOOD DEEDS!!!

And yet... if we do not walk in the good works God has ordained that we walk in (Ephesians 2:10), we are disobedient and that causes us to not be in right standing with the Lord.

Only those being led by the Holy Spirit... are the sons of God (Romans 8:14) and the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience (Colossians 3:6) which are those refusing to be led by the Holy Spirit including those that have been born again that reject His leading

 

[Earburner]

And yet... if we do not walk in the good works God has ordained that we walk in (Ephesians 2:10), we are disobedient and that causes us to not be in right standing with the Lord.

Only those being led by the Holy Spirit... are the sons of God (Romans 8:14) and the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience (Colossians 3:6) which are those refusing to be led by the Holy Spirit including those that have been born again that reject His leading

I suppose you'll have to talk to the "repentant thief" about that. He would know.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I suppose you'll have to talk to the "repentant thief" about that. He would know.

No, I simply look at what the Lord said about in His Word... no need for the opinions of others when God's Word is crystal clear!

 

[GracePeace]

Good luck

This person wants to purchase a gift.

He will fail.. In the end the lord will be justified in what he does

He was asked whether he agreed with the words in Galatians 6.

Galatians 6
6The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him. 7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. 8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. 10So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.

Doing good to all men is "sowing to the Spirit", and, if you continue to live that way, you will reap the harvest of eternal life from the Spirit in due time.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He was asked whether he agreed with the words in Galatians 6.

Galatians 6
6The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him. 7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. 8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. 10So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.

Doing good to all men is "sowing to the Spirit", and, if you continue to live that way, you will reap the harvest of eternal life from the Spirit in due time.

Like I said. Your trying to buy your way to heaven

Good luck

 

[GracePeace]

I suppose you'll have to talk to the "repentant thief" about that. He would know.

You didn't die a few hours after being saved. Everyone has their own circumstances. He did what good he could. He denounced the robber being crucified nearby him, and acknowledged Christ publicly (in John, we read whoever acknowledged Christ publicly was thrown out of the synagogue, so many who believed refused to express their belief bc they loved the praise of men). He did his good deeds. Christ says speaking as God would have Him speak counts as a commandment which if obeyed leads to eternal life. The thief did his good.

As for us, since we're not hanging on a cross, but are free to travel about, different things are expected of us--hence the words in Galatians 6.

But I'm only saying this for the sake of readers, so they don't get confused--please don't feel the need to respond, bc I'm not interested in playing "tennis" (where you're denying what the verse says, and I'm asking you to simply acknowledge what the verse says) again.

Like I said. Your trying to buy your way to heaven

Good luck

Just acknowledging Scripture--a sin, I know.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Just acknowledging Scripture--a sin, I know.

You will see one day.. Unless you repent

 

[GracePeace]

You will see one day.. Unless you repent

Yup, I'm sinning when I believe God, according to you.

Galatians 6
6The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him. 7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. 8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. 10So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.

 

[Earburner]

You didn't die a few hours after being saved. Everyone has their own circumstances. He did what good he could. He denounced the robber being crucified nearby him, and acknowledged Christ publicly (in John, we read whoever acknowledged Christ publicly was thrown out of the synagogue, so many who believed refused to express their belief bc they loved the praise of men). He did his good deeds. Christ says speaking as God would have Him speak counts as a commandment which if obeyed leads to eternal life. The thief did his good.

The repentant thief was SAVED strictly because he repented towards God AND BELIEVED in Jesus.

Repentance towards God is different than repentance from sin.
Repenting from sin (metanoia- a change of mind) doesn't SAVE anyone.

However, repenting towards God (metaneo- to have "ANOTHER" mind), and believing in Jesus, SAVES everyone who does!!

Do you see the difference?

 

[GracePeace]

The repentant thief was SAVED strictly because he repented towards God AND BELIEVED in Jesus.

Repentance towards God is different than repentance from sin.
Repenting from sin (metanoia- a change of mind) doesn't SAVE anyone.

However, repenting towards God (metaneo- to have "ANOTHER" mind), and believing in Jesus, SAVES everyone who does!!

Do you see the difference?

What I know is eternal life is a harvest reaped in due time by doers of good who do not faint in doing good to all men but persist in it.

That is the witness of both Scripture and the most ancient, original, forms of Christianity--your new idea has no historical or Biblical root.

Again, please do not play tennis with me anymore. Your nonsense was responded to for the sake of the readers, but I'm not interested in any idea you have that you wish to express--I already know you're going to deny God's Word. Not interested.

 

[Earburner]

What I know is eternal life is a harvest reaped in due time by doers of good who do not faint in doing good to all men but persist in it.

That is the witness of both Scripture and the most ancient, original, forms of Christianity--your new idea has no historical or Biblical root.

Again, please do not play tennis with me anymore. Your nonsense was responded to for the sake of the readers, but I'm not interested in any idea you have that you wish to express--I already know you're going to deny God's Word. Not interested.

If doing good works is what you put yourself to, then you will have much to boast about of how you shall hope to receive eternal life.

As for me, I have the Son, and therefore I have already received God's Gift of eternal life, because eternal life is in His Son, who resides within me.

 

[GracePeace]

If doing good works is what you put yourself to, then you will have much to boast about of how you shall hope to recieve eternal life.

As for me, I have the Son, and therefore I already have God's Gift of eternal life, because eternal life is in His Son, who resides within me.

Not interested in your opinions. You had your chance to say something true, and you decided to reject God's Word. Thanks.