Run AWAY from Calvinism!

[Scott Downey]

God loves His people as He loves His own Son.
And why wouldn't He? They are His children.
And God loves His own family, just as you do also. (well some people do love their family with a great love!, God the Father certainly does love His own like that.)

This is what it means when speaking of God's great love for US, as in His people.

20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who [j]will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:

23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

 

[David in NJ]

Luke 10, the will of God and Christ as to who knows them and is saved, so then since not all know Christ, not all did Christ will that they know Christ and God.​

Jesus Rejoices in the Spirit​

21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.

22 All[g] things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

Truth is Christ does not pray for the world to know Himself and God, or even for their benefit.
John 17 speaks to those God predestined to be glorified in Christ as they were His. And God gave them to Christ to believe.
They are not of the world, they are of God.


John 17
6 “I have [c]manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.

9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep[d] through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them [e]in the world, I kept them in [f]Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is [g]lost except the son of [h]perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify[i] them by Your truth. Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

You need to allow the BALANCE of Scripture with:
John 3:16
2 Peter 3:9
John 1:9-13
Mark 11:17
1 Cor 9:22
Acts 2:21
Rev 22:17

 

[Scott Downey]

You need to allow the BALANCE of Scripture with:
John 3:16
2 Peter 3:9
John 1:9-13
Mark 11:17
1 Cor 9:22
Acts 2:21
Rev 22:17

All that is the general call to repent and believe, it given to all people all over the earth.

There is the general call, but then there is also the personal call of those who God has predestined to save.
Only they get the eternal inheritance.

Hebrews 9
11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things [c]to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, [d]sanctifies for the [e]purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without [f]spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Whose conscience is cleansed? Those called to receive the eternal inheritance, that calling is for them alone. This call is not given to the world.
This is the personal inward individual call that actually saves and also described here

1 Corinthians 1
26 For [k]you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many [l]noble, are called. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the [m]base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence. 30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”

 

[David in NJ]

All that is the general call to repent and believe, it given to all people all over the earth.

There is the general call, but then there is also the personal call of those who God has predestined to save.
Only they get the eternal inheritance.

Hebrews 9
11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things [c]to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, [d]sanctifies for the [e]purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without [f]spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Whose conscience is cleansed? Those called to receive the eternal inheritance, that calling is for them alone. This call is not given to the world.
This is the personal inward individual call that actually saves and also described here

1 Corinthians 1
26 For [k]you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many [l]noble, are called. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the [m]base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence. 30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”

It all Begins with the General Call which was established by God in Genesis and Confirmed in the Gospel.
First things First.

"God is not willing that any should perish but all come to repentance"

NOTICE how God's General Call BEGINS in Genesis and Ends in Revelation chapter 22

 

[IronMaiden]

The way I see it, the children of the devil, the tares, will never come to Christ; in other words, they will always reject the calling of the Savior.

"You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. "But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. John 8:44-45

 

[David in NJ]

The way I see it, the children of the devil, the tares, will never come to Christ; in other words, they will always reject the calling of the Savior.

"You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. "But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. John 8:44-45

God is both willing and able to save "children of the devil" = Ephesians 2:1-3

"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others."

We must ask ourselves this:
Why was it necessary for Jesus to speak "You are are your father the devil...." ???

 

[Scott Downey]

It all Begins with the General Call which was established by God in Genesis and Confirmed in the Gospel.
First things First.

"God is not willing that any should perish but all come to repentance"

NOTICE how God's General Call BEGINS in Genesis and Ends in Revelation chapter 22

Yet, we see God only saves some,
The general call to repent and believe has no assurance of salvation.
The promise of the eternal inheritance is only given to the foreknown people of God.
Only they have eternal life.
Only the elect obtain salvation, the rest are blinded

As it says in scripture, we know why.

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia,

2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:

Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

Romans 11, God never casts away His people whom He foreknew...HE saves them.

I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. [a]But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:

“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”
9 And David says:

“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.”

 

[IronMaiden]

God is both willing and able to save "children of the devil" = Ephesians 2:1-3

"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others."

We must ask ourselves this:
Why was it necessary for Jesus to speak "You are are your father the devil...." ???

Wow. I was wrong then. Thanks for pointing that Scripture out to me.

 

[David in NJ]

Yet, we see God only saves some,
The general call to repent and believe has no assurance of salvation.
The promise of the eternal inheritance is only given to the foreknown people of God.
Only they have eternal life.
Only the elect obtain salvation, the rest are blinded

As it says in scripture, we know why.

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia,

2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:

Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

Romans 11, God never casts away His people whom He foreknew...

I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. [a]But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:

“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”
9 And David says:

“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.”

i ALWAYS AGREE with Scripture that clearly states God's Sole Authority to Elect souls unto Salvation.

His Election is by GRACE = "not of ourselves less any man should boast"

 

[David in NJ]

Wow. I was wrong then. Thanks for pointing that Scripture out to me.

Knowing the Truth is Freedom = as you well Know

Thank you for sharing as it helps to build us all UP in the Faith

 

[Scott Downey]

God is both willing and able to save "children of the devil" = Ephesians 2:1-3

"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others."

We must ask ourselves this:
Why was it necessary for Jesus to speak "You are are your father the devil...." ???

He was just telling them the truth, they had claimed God as their Father, which Christ tells them is a lie.
John 8
54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is [o]your God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going[p] through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Matthew 23:14
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.

 

[David in NJ]

Wow. I was wrong then. Thanks for pointing that Scripture out to me.

Post 1,610 UPdated

 

[IronMaiden]

We must ask ourselves this:
Why was it necessary for Jesus to speak "You are are your father the devil...." ???

I don’t know. Why?

 

[David in NJ]

He was just telling them the truth, they had claimed God as their Father, which Christ tells them is a lie.
John 8
54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is [o]your God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going[p] through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Matthew 23:14
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.

Correct

Now let us did a little deeper, why was this necessary for the Gospel and for us that Jesus said these things?

 

[David in NJ]

I don’t know. Why?

@Scott Downey gave a good explanation in Post 1,611

 

[Scott Downey]

God is immutable, God cannot lie
Only elect have faith in Christ.
The elect are those called and chosen by God to have faith in His Son.

1 Titus 1
Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, 3 but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior;

Revelation 17:14
These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.”

Mark 13:20
And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

 

[IronMaiden]

@Scott Downey gave a good explanation in Post 1,611

Yes, I agree with Scott Downey.

 

[David in NJ]

Going fishing now.

@LatterRain and @Scott Downey have a Great Day ion the LORD and PLEASE continue to lift up this Election in Prayer - Thank You

 

[Scott Downey]

Hebrews 6
17 Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the [a]immutability of His counsel, [b]confirmed it by an oath, 18 that by two [c]immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we [d]might have strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us.

19 This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil,

On the immutable (unchangeablenss) counsel of His will, we read in Ephesians 1


1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,

To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Redemption in Christ​

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He [a]made us accepted in the Beloved.

7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and [b]prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, [c]both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.

11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[d] is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

What is so very good about all this, is His working in us our trust in Him, which seals us into the guarantee of our eternal inheritance.
all to the praise of His glorious grace, towards us.

Our salvation is a great and wonderful work of God. The work of God is that you believe in Him whom He has sent, that is Christ.

 

[PinSeeker]

Our desire for His Desire comes from God to us FIRST.

This seems a bit discombobulated. I think we agree, but... <smile>... what you say here is a bit hard to understand... <smile> I would state it thusly, that we desire salvation, and even that we love God, because He first loved us, which is exactly what John says, which Scott pointed out before:

"Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent His only Son into the world, so that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we have loved God but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and His love is perfected in us. By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent His Son to be the Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as He is so also are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love. We love because he first loved us."​

[1 John 4:7-19]​

Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

You need to balance this with John 3:16

Yes, and the balance is this. At issue here is 'whoever,' or 'whosoever,' or 'everyone.' Does that mean all people, bar none? Well, if you read Joel 2:32, you should be able to easily discern that the answer is a resounding no, that this 'whoever' or 'whosoever' or 'everyone' is a limited group, limited to the ones who receive God's call:

"And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the Lord has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls."​

[Joel 2:32]​

The former ("everyone who calls on the name of the Lord") is limited to and because of ~ as a result of ~ the latter ("those whom the Lord calls"). The impact of this is that everyone whom the Lord calls will call upon the name of the Lord. This is clearly evident from the 'For' ~ or therefore ~ in the second sentence.

Grace and peace to you, David.