Run AWAY from Calvinism!

[Carl Emerson]

-

The choosing and the adopting by GOD... is based on becoming "in Christ".,first...... and the predestination, is subsequent to the becoming "IN Christ".

How do you know?

Its because before you are IN CHRIST......you are a sinner, still in your sin... and God does not adopt sinners. God does not put sinners in Christ..

So, when you Give God YOUR faith in Christ........God FORGIVES YOUR SIN.......and that positions you to be BORN AGAIN, as your sin has to be dealt with first... and now God Gives you, the new birth, INTO CHRIST>. and now being in CHRIST. you are "chosen"' "Adopted".., and predestined for many things.

For example.

All the born again are predestined to be "conformed into the Image of Christ".
All the born again are predestined to receive a NEW Body.
All the born again are predestined to be Raptured.
All the born again are predestined to go to the Judgement seat of Christ
All the born again are predestined to rule and reign with The Lord, during the Millennial Reign of Christ.

So, for ALL that to happen, you FIRST have to become "IN Christ" ...and then what is predestined for those who are "in Christ"....begins.

The Elect were chosen before the foundation of the world. While we were yet sinners Christ died for us.

Sinners are not all deaf to God's promptings, some are given ears to hear. He is the author and finisher of our faith.

Predestination is not just foreknowing, it is His choosing to draw some to Himself by whatever means (Paul is a great example of this)

Yes - we are adopted into His family at rebirth, but as with Jeremiah and Paul choosing was secured before we were born.

Acts 9
“Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he did to Your saints at Jerusalem; 14 and here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.” 15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; 16 for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name’s sake.”

Jeremiah 1:5
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

 

[Scott Downey]

Revelation 13:8
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 17:8
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.


Revelation 17:14
These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.”

Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He [a]made us accepted in the Beloved.

2 Thess 2
13 But we are [a]bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through [b]sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[PinSeeker]

R. Nolette also can't defend it.. and has nothing left to say...

That's the thing; there's nothing to defend, because all of your assertions and accusations against Calvinism are so ridiculous.

...ts not a rant.

It is.

Its a fact that TULIP does not "predestine" FAMILIES.

I never argued that it did. God predestines certain individuals, ~ us, as Paul says, meaning each and every one of us Christians ~ those He chose before the foundation of the world, to be conformed to Christ. This is exactly what Paul says in Ephesians 1, which I've cited many, many times. And I have never said otherwise. I don't even remember anyone ever saying "TULIP predestines families," or anything like that, silly as it is, really. Who ever said anything like that?

So, that means some in yours, according to this doctrine of devils you believe, are NOT "pre-chosen" before they were born, to go to Heaven.

Well, they're not predestined (or "pre-chosen") to be conformed to Christ. Because of THAT, then yes, they will not go to Heaven. This is what I have said many, many times, but only because you have over and over again leveled the charge against John Calvin and Calvinists that they say God predestines (or "pre-chooses") some to hell, which is absolutely untrue. Correctly stated, He gives them up to themselves ~ lets them have what they want, really, which is what Paul says in Romans 1 (which you said just pertained to homosexuals, which is untrue; they remain dead in their sin, which is not just particular to homosexuality at all but pertaining to their sinful heart and thus encompassing all their sinful actions) and endures them with much patience, as Paul says in Romans 9, as I said, even giving them grace ~ but not the grace of salvation ~ through the course of their lives.

You dont have to like it, but face it like an adult, honestly...

Your "honesty?" No thanks. <smile>

as that is the DOCTRINE that owns you..... @PinSeeker .

LOL!

You're... a very... interesting... person, Behold. LOL!

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Behold]

The Elect were chosen before the foundation of the world.

This does not say they were chosen to be born again, as hyper-calvinism teaches.

It says....The elect are predestined, according to foreknowledge.

This means the elect, have a predestined outcome, that is the result of being born again 'in Christ" , = first.

Once "in Christ".. they are THEN predestined.....for many things.....such as.. "to be conformed into the image of Christ".

Hyper-Calvinism, tries to pre-destine what is only God's Foreknowledge, and that is core ROT of Calvin and TULIP.

See, Calvin decided that God's Foreknowledge, which is to know all things BEFORE they happen........Calvin decided that this Fore-KNOWING< means "God pre-destines".

Calvin redefined Fore-Knowledge, God's knowing all things BEFORE they happen.. .Calvin redefined this, Tulip redefines this as Pre-Destined.......AND THAT Error, is this center of Calvin's Theological "doctrine of Devils".

Sinners are not all deaf to God's promptings, some are given ears to hear. He is the author and finisher of our faith.

Paul teaches that every person is ""given the measure of faith.""

You're born with it.

This is why you could have put your faith in Scientology, or any other belief system.
See, all have Faith, and that is why some believe in ALLAH, and the Quran'.

God is looking for each person to put that faith, that that they are born with, that is dictated by Free Will.......God says to put that Faith in CHRIST..

See, the Gospel, is one of many messages in this world, that someone give out.......and the hearer can put their faith in it.
What separates the Gospel from all other religious messages, is that the Gospel is TRUE.

Calvins lie, Hyper-Calvinists, + TULIP.... say......"Totally Depraved" can't believe...., so God has to make you believe, by HIS Choice.
You recently defined this lie as "irresistible"....

And as i told you now for the 3rd time.... because Calvinism does not ELECT entire families, . Then Hyper-Calvinism.. is teaching that God "pre-chose" some of your family for HELL< by not choosing them to believe, so that they would have gone to heaven.

it is His choosing to draw some to Himself by whatever means (Paul is a great example of this)

Paul gives no example that God skips some of your family, and chose you.

Listen carefully to Jesus..

Jesus said...>>"if I be lifted up (on The Cross), i will DRAW = ALL people to myself".

A.) ALL people.. not the pre-chosen.

John 3:16, = whosoever.....believes........not just the pre-chosen, as a doctrine of devil's teaches.. you to teach.

Calvin says, and you his disciple will say......>"no, you are wrong Jesus, WE teach that you only draw the pre-chosen".

Yes - we are adopted into His family at rebirth, but as with Jeremiah and Paul choosing was secured before we were born.

The foreknowledge is secured, not the pre-destination to be caused to believe.

God KNOWS who is going to trust in Christ, before the world was created, and that is God's FORE-KNOWLEDGE, and the predestination, is what happens to the "in CHRIST", believer.
You have to be IN Christ, to then be predestined.

“Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine,

esus is saying, The Foreknowledge of God, always knew that Paul would become my chosen Vessel.

See, Jesus didnt go back to heaven, and then decide on Paul.
Paul was in God's Foreknowledge, before Jesus was virgin born, and then later, when the Apostles Letters are given, this is revealed.

The Cross of Christ is always Calling everyone to come and Believe.
The Gospel does the same thing.

Jeremiah 1:5
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

Yes, and before i was born, and before you were born, The Foreknowledge of God, knew we would be talking about your Calvinism, on my Thread.
And that is not God causing it by pre-destination, that is God knowing it, because God knows everything, at all times.

 

[Behold]

That's the thing; there's nothing to defend, because all of your assertions and accusations against Calvinism are so ridiculous.

Ive noted that when you have no actual proof of anything, no verses you can rewrite and twist... you then deflect and say...>>>what you just posted to me.
You'll do it again, as you have no choice, as there is nothing else available for you.

I never argued that it did. God predestines certain individuals, ~

So who in your family isn't pre-chosen for Heaven?? According to your Idol John Calvinism and its evil twin "the 5 points"?

Think on that, and see if you can dodge your way out of it.
R.Nolette wont even discuss it.

I can understand that...

you have over and over again leveled the charge against John Calvin and Calvinists that they say God predestines (or "pre-chooses") some to hell,

If God didnt choose you to believe in Christ, so that you could go to Heaven, that that is because He pre-chose you before you were born, to not go to Heaven.
So where to you end up? And who caused that, According to Calvin-TULIP?

You have to think. @PinSeeker
You're not really thinking.. Your just the typical disciple of a false doctrine who is stuck on "react".

 

[Carl Emerson]

Paul teaches that every person is ""given the measure of faith.""

You're born with it.

This is why you could have put your faith in Scientology, or any other belief system.
See, all have Faith, and that is why some believe in ALLAH, and the Quran'.

God is looking for each person to put that faith, that that they are born with, that is dictated by Free Will.......God says to put that Faith in CHRIST..

The Bible says faith comes from hearing the Word of Christ.

This gift of faith will not lead you to deception and is not of us, but of Him.

 

[PinSeeker]

Actually to DENY that Jesus is offered to all sinners...

No one does that, Behold. Not John Calvin, and not Calvinists. That's merely your false accusation.

Gods Grace is not selective...

He gives grace to all, all kinds of grace, whether they acknowledge it or not. But the grace of salvation he gives only to those He has mercy and compassion on, and these are His elect. So to your statement here, in one sense ~ the former ~ it's not, but in the other sense ~ the latter ~ it very much is.

as Hyper-Calvinism teaches... As God's Grace is The Cross of Christ, and its offered to everyone by Faith.

No, salvation is through faith, which, is God's assurance of things hoped for, and the Holy Spirit's conviction of the believer regarding things unseen.

John 3:16

...refers directly to Joel 2:32. :) Of the ones whom God calls (inwardly, by His Spirit; of those)... whosoever of those calls on the Lord ~ and they all will ~ they will all be saved. Paul does the same thing in Romans 10:13.

This does not say they were chosen to be born again, as hyper-calvinism teaches.

SCRIPTURE, Behold, teaches ~ verbatim ~ that they were chosen by God before the foundation of the world to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ, and to be conformed to the image of Christ, they have to be born again of the Holy Spirit. There is no argument for this.

It says....The elect are predestined, according to foreknowledge.

God knew us ~ in the sense that He loved us and chose us ~ before the foundation of the world. Hey, you and I can know all about someone, but to really know that person is a very different thing. Again, in the sense of just cognitive knowledge beforehand, He knows every thing and every one and what anyone will do. Yes, it says what it says, but Paul is speaking of a limited number of folks in saying "those He foreknew" in Romans 8:29. Your understanding of what God's foreknowledge, in the context of how it is spoken of in the Bible, is obviously and deeply flawed.

Paul teaches that every person is ""given the measure of faith."" You're born with it.

Paul is speaking specifically of and to Christians there in 1 Corinthians 12. And no one ~ not one ~ is born with salvific faith, which is God's assurance of salvation and conviction of such by the Holy Spirit, Behold. No one. And in God's time, only the elect receive this salvific faith, which can only be given by God, through God's call, issued inwardly by the Holy Spirit, worked in the person by the Holy Spirit, when the person is born again of the Spirit. We are His workmanship, and no one may boast.

...God has to make you believe, by HIS Choice.

God has to make the blind to see, thus setting them free from their slavery to sin. As Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5:17-18, "...if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to Himself..." The issue is the condition of the heart, not the will or whether one believes. If God does this ~ changes the state of the heart ~ THEN, seeing, the person will not fail to willingly and freely come to belief, precisely because he sees. And in this sense, it is irresistible.

With all due respect, Behold, you have a head of... brass. <smile> Exactly the problem, Behold, is that you contort what John Calvin clearly said and Calvinists clearly believe into some hodgepodge of absolutely ridiculous assertions, and that's your issue, no one else's. It's absolutely incredible. But hey, you do you, by all means.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

Ive noted...

...your ridiculous opinions, and nothing else.

So who in your family isn't pre-chosen for Heaven?

I hope no one, but I think ~ at least right now ~ several.

If God didnt choose you to believe in Christ, so that you could go to Heaven, that that is because He pre-chose you before you were born, to not go to Heaven.

No, if God didn't choose any one person to be conformed to Christ, it's because He didn't choose that person to be conformed to Christ… which may sound a bit silly, but the point is, we can’t really make any kind of inference from it; it just is what it is. The inference you’re making from the fact that God chose some for a certain thing — that he necessarily chose others for anything else — cannot be made with any credibility. Again, He says, “I will have mercy on whom I will, and compassion on whom I will.” And unless and until He does so, everyone — EVERYONE — stands condemned. No one can call himself out of darkness, and no one can redeem himself. “But God…” (Ephesians 2:4-10).

Initially speaking, everyone "chose not to go to Heaven"... in Adam, who is the federal head of the human race. This is the natural human condition, from birth. Again, as Paul says, "...sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men..." Since Adam fell into this state, we all inherited it at our birth. This is what necessitates our rebirth of the Spirit, without which we cannot see the Kingdom of God, as Jesus tells Nicodemus in John 3.

You have to think. @PinSeeker

Yes, I agree. But many become, as Paul says, futile in their thinking, exchanging the truth for a lie, and they worship creation rather than the Creator (Romans 1)... <smile>

Again... a head of brass... LOL!

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Behold]

The Bible says faith comes from hearing the Word of Christ.

No, the NT does not say, imply, or teach, that you have no faith, until you hear the Gospel.

What it says is that by hearing the Gospel, the Holy Spirit will DRAW, and that means that He reveals Jesus to you, in your heart, and then you decide to put your FAITH in Christ or not.
See, GOD requires that your faith in Christ, be given to Him, whereas lying Calvinists, led by a demonized cultist teaching that God has to give you FAITH, first, and then you can us it. And that is of course one more LIE related to John Calvinism and the "5 points'.

If you refuse to give God your faith in Christ when you KNOW to do it......Paul teaches that you have "willfully sinned" and "there remains no more Sacrifice for you".. as how can there be any more sacrifice for you, if you "willfully reject" JESUS, who is the only SACRIFICE God offers for you.

= Duh.

 

[PinSeeker]

No, the NT does not say, imply, or teach, that you have no faith, until you hear the Gospel.

That's not what he said, Behold. Hearing is the vehicle through which faith comes... is given to us. As Paul says in Romans 10 ~ which, if you don't know, is in the New Testament... <chuckles> ~ "faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ" (10:17).

What it says is that by hearing the Gospel, the Holy Spirit will DRAW, and that means that He reveals Jesus to you, in your heart...

You do have your moments, few and far between as they may be... <smile>

, and then you decide to put your FAITH in Christ or not.

The faith one has, if the Spirit has truly drawn you, is already yours, because the Holy Spirit has worked it in you ~ this is God's assurance, and conviction of such by the Holy Spirit... this is what the Bible, in Hebrews 11:1, says this faith is.

As Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 1:5, "the gospel comes to us not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction." But this conviction by the Holy Spirit does not always come to everyone who hears, but only those for whom God has purposed it:

"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit” (Jesus, John 3:8)

"...so shall My Word be that goes out from My mouth; it shall not return to Me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it" (God, Isaiah 55:11)

And then... THEN... yes, you believe, and yes, you decide, freely and willingly, to follow Jesus, because you are then compelled to do so... because, having been born of the Spirit, you are then of God rather than of the devil. Remember what Jesus says to a group of Jews in John 8? He says to them:

"Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires... But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me... If I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God." (John 8:43-47).​

If you refuse to give God your faith in Christ when you KNOW to do it...

You will not refuse, but gladly do so, because this faith ~ again, assurance from God and conviction of such by the Holy Spirit, Who convicts ~ is of the Lord. You "know to do it" because you have been born again of the Spirit and are no longer of the devil but of God.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Behold]

That's not what he said, Behold. Hearing is the vehicle through which faith comes... is given to us. As Paul says in Romans 10 ~ which, if you don't know, is in the New Testament... <chuckles> ~ "faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ" (10:17).

OUR Faith in Christ is what we Give God that He accepts.

Our faith is alway there........ as you had faith in many things before you Gave it To God.
And that was your free will, and it was not because you were caused to believe.. it was because you were drawn to understand whom to believe in, and you made that choice.
Many know to believe, are drawn to believe for years, but die refusing to take that step of faith.

The NT describes these as "willfully sinned" because unlike John the Liar Calvin and the demonic "5_points"... the NT teaches that you can "WILLFULLY" do something like, put YOUR faith in Christ or "WILLFULLY" refuse.

Hell is filled with those who were lead to trust in Christ, but wouldn't.

The faith one has, if the Spirit has truly drawn you, is already yours, because the Holy Spirit has worked it in you ~

Paul teaches that all are born with "the measure of faith"...

Ask anyone who BELIEVES in Muhammed, or you could tell them the same stupid Calvinism, nonsense, = that they really can't have any faith.
(Too depraved)..
And if you do, 2 Billion Muslim just "chuckled" at your Calvinism issue.

But this conviction by the Holy Spirit does not always come to everyone who hears,

Jesus said, "If i be lifted up, i will Draw ALL people to me"...

So, you can redefine that as Calvin would have you do it., Mr Predestined.

I'll pass on that heresy.
np/

"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit” (Jesus, John 3:8)

It true that we as natural beings, can't SEE into the Supernatural, but we can be born again into it, if we give God OUR Faith, that He requires to then give us a spiritual birth, that you also can't see...

You need to start thinking, as you are on "auto-calvin" and that is not a smart place or a good place to remain "stuck".

"...so shall My Word be that goes out from My mouth; it shall not return to Me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it" (God, Isaiah 55:11)

Yes, and that verse..you posted, I use a lot, when i pray, ....as i ""call things that be not, as tho they were"", exactly as God has designed a true believer to operate, in the Spirit.

"Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear My word. ​

Yes, and God is showing you a way out of Pre-destined theology darkness, but you can't hear it, as you still are owned by some demonic man's Theology.

There are millions just like you., and many are on this forum.

Now...Notice.

God makes Christians.

Calvin makes Calvinists...
That's you.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

See, God foreknows, (knows beforehand) eveyone who is going to Trust in Christ,

Now just show a verse that says that specifically!

As opposed to these verses.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Now how did God have "pro-gnosis"?

Ephesians 1:4

King James Version

​

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

CHOSEN!

John 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

GIVEN!

John 6:44

King James Version

​

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

DRAWN!

Romans 9:14-24

King James Version

​

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

NOT OF OUR WILL BUT HIS WILL!

Romans 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
Romans 11:5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Colossians 3:12
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

elect=eklectos= CHOSEN!

Sorry but your philosophy doesn't hold up against the Word of God!

 

[Behold]

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son,

Your verse says that they are predestined to be conformed..

Lying Calvinist, who are duped by the "5 points", all rewrite the verse to teach this Hyper - Calvinism lie...

= "Predestined to be born again"...... and that is not what the verse says, or teaches.

The verse is explaining that once you are born again, you are "predestined to be conformed"...

Dont believe Calvin's lies as that makes you the same when you continue to teach them ..

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world,

Notice you are chosen IN HIM, not Chosen to be in Him.

This means that once you are "IN Christ',.... = THEN you are then predestined for many thing.

Once you are IN CHRIST the "adoption" happens, ect.

John 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

This is Jesus, talking about his Apostles, before Christ has died on the Cross and created the New Testament with His Blood and Death that is the Blood atonement and new covenant, which then has created CHRISTianity.

Its lying Calvinism and the 5-Points that tries to "predestine" this verse into Hyper Calvinism deception.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Right and Jesus said..

"If i be lifted up on the CROSS.... i will draw EVERYONE (all men) to myself"......

See that "ALL People"...

Calvin didnt like that verse, as it denies His lies, and it denies yours, exactly as John 3:16 does the same..

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Right and Jesus said..

"If i be lifted up on the CROSS.... i will draw EVERYONE (all men) to myself"......

See that "ALL People"...

Now go learn what that really means in the Greek! For if you take it at face value in English then why do you fuss about people who believe the biblical 5 points? all will be saved anyway!

And once again you rlack of biblical acumen forces you to write your vacuous opinions.

 

[Behold]

Now go learn what that really means in the Greek!

I already know what it means.
See, that is the advantage that a Bible Believer always has, and if you were that, you would not care about Greek, and would not have become deceived for 30+ yrs by "TULIP".

See what happened to you, because you never allowed the word of God, the Holy Bible to be your final authority......

You are literally, on the wrong side of Hebrews 12:9, as it describes what happened to you.. because you didnt obey this verse.

So, YOU can chase the Greek and you can adore Calvin., as thats your Religion.

However that is not to be found in the life of a True Believer.

Believe it.

 

[Carl Emerson]

No, the NT does not say, imply, or teach, that you have no faith, until you hear the Gospel.

Who said that ?

Quote me please...

 

[Behold]

Who said that ?

Paul said it.

Let me give you a few verses by versions... and then i'll explain it.

faith comes by Hearing, and hearing by the word of God

So faith is from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

so then the faith is by a report, and the report through a saying of God,

So faith comes from hearing [what is told], and what is heard comes by the [preaching of the] message concerning Christ.


Notice that the "faith comes" not from the Holy Spirit causing it, but from the message.... concerning Christ.

This means, that the message of the Gospel, when its BELIEVED, is Faith IN The Gospel.

Now, hyper-calvinism, flips that, subverts that understanding as "the holy Spirit causes you to have faith".. or "you are pre-chosen to be caused to believe".

So, in this TULIP nonsense, you have the person being CAUSED to believe, whereas the verse says the word that is preached, is believed upon......based ON the word.
This simply means that the person hears the Gospel, and believes it.
Why do they believe it? Its because they "come to the knowledge of the Truth"... and that means the HS, reveals to them, in their heart that this message is TRUE.....and then THEY choose to put their faith in it, or not.

If they wont then they are a Hebrews 10..."willfully sinning", and if they do, they are a BELIEVER.

 

[Ritajanice]

This below sounds like a very different faith..to that of the faith that God gifts to others that we see on this thread..supernatural faith”

I had a friend who had the type of faith below, we had to part ways..as she didn’t believe or understand God’s supernatural faith....

Behold says...This simply means that the person hears the Gospel, and believes it.
Why do they believe it? Its because they "come to the knowledge of the Truth"... and that means the HS, reveals to them, in their heart that this message is TRUE.....and then THEY choose to put their faith in it, or not



Also, what he says above is not being Born Of The Spirit either..imo..just my opinion and belief.

I’m allowed to be honest..as long as it’s said with respect.

We are Born Of The Spirit,Spirit gives birth to spirit= the divine heart revelation birth ,where the Spirit permanently indwells our spirit..as he indwells us, the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children..God doesn’t say that we are Born Again by hearing the gospel...that must be a different faith.imo.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yes this is a key point to understand...

Faith comes from hearing...

But not all hear... (those who have ears to hear are the Elect.)

To be able to hear God's living Word is a gift.

Those then who hear His personal Word to them, by whatever means, are so impacted by His living word that they cant deny it is Him.

However while they may initially trust it, and confess it, they can still slide into unbelief. This does not effect their salvation but diminishes their eternal reward.

So the whole calling to, and establishing salvation, is God's work not ours. But eternal reward depends on our own trust and obedience.

 

[Ritajanice]

The Holy Spirit witnesses that I am a child of God, all day every day....33 years and counting..Praise God for his witness, who resides in our spirit, who can only witness Gods truth to our heart/ spirit.

If God plants his seed into your heart, it will 100% grow and mature into a beautiful tree.

Spirit gives birth to spirit.

A Born Again shows the character of Christ and bear his fruit.those are the Born Again,imo.