Run AWAY from Calvinism!

[Lifelong_sinner]

As far as other Calvinists....now a days, everybody has their own opinions. Belief control in the pews is a pipe dream, it does not matter if it is Calvinists, Baptists, or Pentecostals.

i would agree with you there. In my church, the members do not have to believe in the Westminster confessions to be a member, but we do make it a requirement of our officers. The area i live in is VERY baptist, but few presbyterian churches exist here. And there are some members who dont believe in our baby baptism, yet they are still members.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Keep it up; maybe you'll convince someone to become hopeless and desperate. Or, perhaps, maybe people will realize that since you claim you are wicked, you, therefore, are the one who doesn't understand and cannot be trusted to teach, according to Daniel 12:10. You could also repent and believe in Christ for the remission of sins of your own volition. Otherwise, why should anyone believe what you teach?

calvinism isnt the reason people become hopeless or desperate, sin does that. As for teaching, im not teaching anything, im merely saying why i believe in reformed theology. Big difference between having an opinion and teaching.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

And I feel like this ties in to the above. I had to think very hard when LLS said Calvinism is the only branch of theology that teaches a man how depraved he is. I thought, If they stopped at that, they would not be so odious. But to then leave a man in that and tell him God is not willing to save and heal him is where they refuse a man entrance into the Kingdom. They compass land and sea to do this to a man and teach him to go out and teach it to other men. And if they convince him to the point where no pinpoint of hope remains and the man realizes that it means there’s no reason to live the rest of his life here and that to kill himself will be the only relief or him, they will be held responsible for the mans blood and God will be more merciful to the man they did that to than He will be to them.

Hmmmm i think you started to go off the rails about halfway through. Yes, calvinism i believe, is the doctrine that best convicts a person about their sin. Then, calvinism brings in the I in tulip, irresistible grace, and that is the perfect spot to bring people into understanding of how they are saved. If you look at the 5 pts of TULIP, you will see an arc of how salvation not only works, but why it is needed, and how it will last.

if a person accepts Jesus gleefully, it leads to false converts. People must see how evil they are before understanding the need for a Saviour. The whole “Jesus loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life” is so much nonsense, yet it is taught so much and then people wonder why we have so many false converts in our churches today.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Problem is, there's no relief in eternal torment, which is what most Calvinists believe.

Yeah, the problems keep snowballing until you wind up with something that looks nothing like our Lord.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Yeah, the problems keep snowballing until you wind up with something that looks nothing like our Lord.

im a bit confused. So are yall saying that hell isnt eternal torment???

 

[stunnedbygrace]

if a person accepts Jesus gleefully, it leads to false converts. People must see how evil they are before understanding the need for a Saviour. The whole “Jesus loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life” is so much nonsense, yet it is taught so much and then people wonder why we have so many false converts in our churches today.

Some children are very fearful and startle and melt easily and need continual assurances. Other children are too confident and need many warnings.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

im a bit confused. So are yall saying that hell isnt eternal torment???

If you examine it past all the teachings of men, it’s what you come to. If you don’t lay down the teachings of men, you must believe it.

 

[Grailhunter]

i would agree with you there. In my church, the members do not have to believe in the Westminster confessions to be a member, but we do make it a requirement of our officers. The area i live in is VERY baptist, but few presbyterian churches exist here. And there are some members who dont believe in our baby baptism, yet they are still members.

The thing is that I am use to being at churches where people get baptized more than once. As you know some people believe that if you through the process of being saved and continue to sin they believe "the first time did not take" LOL So they get baptized again. As I said, some believe that baptism is merely a public display of obedience.

I like the idea of babies being baptized as a dedication....but I do believe they should be baptized after they are an adult.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

God melts the hardness of our hearts when He makes us new creatures. The Holy Spirit resurrects us from spiritual death, so that we come to Christ because we want to come to Christ. The reason we want to come to Christ is because God has already done a work of grace in our souls. Without that work, we would never have any desire to come to Christ. That's why we say that regeneration precedes faith.”

 

[stunnedbygrace]

God melts the hardness of our hearts when He makes us new creatures. The Holy Spirit resurrects us from spiritual death, so that we come to Christ because we want to come to Christ. The reason we want to come to Christ is because God has already done a work of grace in our souls. Without that work, we would never have any desire to come to Christ. That's why we say that regeneration precedes faith.”

Well, it doesn’t matter to you does it…? God has decided you will not be saved.

 

[Renniks]

and again, you dont understand the spirit of scripture. We have NOTHING, i cant emphasize this enough, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with getting saved. God has already chosen who will be saved, and no amount of groveling can save you if you are not of the elect.

Then there's a good chance you aren't saved.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

The thing is that I am use to being at churches where people get baptized more than once. As you know some people believe that if you through the process of being saved and continue to sin they believe "the first time did not take" LOL So they get baptized again. As I said, some believe that baptism is merely a public display of obedience.

I like the idea of babies being baptized as a dedication....but I do believe they should be baptized after they are an adult.

ANABAPTIST!!!! you’re an Anabaptist! Wow, no wonder you hate calvinism. As far as baby baptism goes, we as presbyterians believe it is Biblical.

 

[Renniks]

see, this is where your pagan ideas come out in full display. The fact that God thru the Holy Spirit changes people, regeneration, so that they welcome God’s decree is a sign of mercy. Do you really care what it takes to get to Heaven? Do you see God changing you, even by force, so that you can escape hell as a bad thing?? Your pride of thinking that you have to have input goes against everything in romans 9.

You don't see the problem here? It's not about me.. it's about all those people who would desperately love some hope, but in your theology, God hates them for no discernable reason, and has chosen to create them solely for damnation. And the fatalism you are teaching comes from paganism.

 

[Grailhunter]

ANABAPTIST!!!! you’re an Anabaptist! Wow, no wonder you hate calvinism. As far as baby baptism goes, we as presbyterians believe it is Biblical.

I am multi-denominational....Anabaptists are ok, so are the rest of them. My favorite are the Holy Ghost churches.

And you say infant baptisms are biblical....show me....I would like that.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Well, it doesn’t matter to you does it…? God has decided you will not be saved.

NOW you’re getting somewhere. Now goto Romans 9:15-21 and you will see the doctrine of election as well as the correct response to it;

“For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?”

Romans 9 proves calvinism is Biblical. Calvin didnt create any doctrine, his TULIP is nothing more than him saying he agrees 100% with paul.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

You don't see the problem here? It's not about me.. it's about all those people who would desperately love some hope, but in your theology, God hates them for no discernable reason, and has chosen to create them solely for damnation. And the fatalism you are teaching comes from paganism.

not true. The hope you’re speaking of can be found in the L and I of TULIP. Jesus death, and irresistible grace. These 2 things bring hope that despite being soooooo depraved, God still loves and will save them. Calvinism removes all thought of works based salvation, it removes all pride of saving one’s self. It makes people look to Jesus first and foremost. That is the correct hope.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Then there's a good chance you aren't saved.

VERY good chance. Yet romans 9 tells us that we are not to question what God does with us. If i am not of the elect, who am i to complain?

 

[Grailhunter]

VERY good chance. Yet romans 9 tells us that we are not to question what God does with us. If i am not of the elect, who am i to complain?

Yep! It looks biblical!

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

I am multi-denominational....Anabaptists are ok, so are the rest of them. My favorite are the Holy Ghost churches.

And you say infant baptisms are biblical....show me....I would like that.

Westminster Confessions chpt 28, parts 3, 4, 6, and 7;
“3. Dipping of the person into the water is not necessary; but baptism is rightly administered by pouring, or sprinkling water upon the person.

4. Not only those that do actually profess faith in and obedience unto Christ, but also the infants of one, or both, believing parents, are to be baptized.

6. The efficacy of baptism is not tied to that moment of time wherein it is administered; yet, notwithstanding, by the right use of this ordinance, the grace promised is not only offered, but really exhibited, and conferred, by the Holy Ghost, to such (whether of age or infants) as that grace belongeth unto, according to the counsel of God's own will, in his appointed time.

7. The sacrament of baptism is but once to be administered unto any person.”

 

[Ronald Nolette]

So here is the correct interpretation:

T= One cannot be mostly lost = You cannot even respond to the Gospel

U.= there are no conditions to be elect from the foundation of the world = God elects some for salvation and others for damnation

L. = Either Jesus erased everyone's sins, (universalism) or the atonement is limited to the saved = Christ died only for the so-called "elect"

I = One can either resist sovereign grace or they cannot = You will be saved because you cannot help being saved

P = Either one is eternally saved or not! There is no kind of saved!

Well I was responding to Barne and his thought there could be a middle of the road.

But I would disagree with you about double election. God does not elect anyone to hell. All are born lost and already condemened! He only elects teh saved!