Run AWAY from Calvinism!

[Lambano]

wow…you always seem to have the exuberance of youth to me…

And the foolishness thereof.

 

[Johann]

insistence’s

No need, if my wife was here she would have laughed.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And the foolishness thereof.

nope, not what I meant. :)

 

[Johann]

But I can’t promise Barny won’t come in and pants you. He lurks a lot and then suddenly you find yourself pantsed.

Won't happen, I can promise you that.
J.

 

[Johann]

20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might gain Jews; to those who are under the Law, I became as one under the Law, though not being under the Law myself, so that I might gain those who are under the Law; 21 to those who are without the Law, I became as one without the Law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might gain those who are without the Law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might gain the weak; I have become all things to all people, so that I may by all means save some. (1 Corinthians 9:20-22)

I have a particular reason for quoting that passage, but for now I'll keep it to myself. :)

..and to know me, Lambano, you must "become" like Johann..not to save me, but to yada me.
J.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Won't happen, I can promise you that.
J.

You’ve made me laugh…I didn’t expect that…
I snuck out for a cigarette but this time I really do have to go. Later guys.

 

[BarneyFife]

Well I only got to his rebuttal of TUand L and couldn't take it anymore.

I would love to meet this preacher in his church and debate him of the Biblicalness of the five points of Calvinism.

He either used a book that limits what they choose to saying the points or is lying!

The five points are extraordinarily biblical. But some of the commentators who speak of them have stirred controversy. Like the L for limited atonement. Hyper Calvinists believe Jesus died only for the elect, but that is not te4h standard teaching of limited atonement.

This man uses different authors writing on controversial opinions that are not the mainstream belief of those who see the five points as what Scripture teaches.

there is a book by Packer and Sproul ( i strongly disagree with their reformed theology BTW) that isan excellent biblical treatise discussing the five points.

Teh is preacher makes his own conclusions such as " If you can't make a right choice, you can't make a wrong choice either"! that is pure human philosophy!

My biggest animosity towards him is his lying! He says He has no animosity towards anyone, but started his message by saying anyone who believes in Calvinism has departed from the faith and is listening to doctrines of demons! IOW unsaved folks! Seems ti me he is saying trusting in the death and resurrection of Jesus AND not believing in any of the five points of Calvinsim is required to be saved! Other wise you have fallen from the faith!

I really would love to sit across this man and debate him in front of as many as could be seated and on TV and internet! He needs to chopped down a whole lot of pegs.

He is a five point Armeniast (that is why the Calvinists made their answer five points) which means he accepts the Catholic doctrine on these points!

Personalities of preachers aside (since the truth is true even when evil people say it):

Arminianism is a slightly flawed human distillation of soteriology.

But 5-point Calvinism in it's modern interpretation is a theological train wreck. The devotion given to fanatical loyalty to it requires a cognitive dissonance that denies the obvious presence of premeditated tyranny and monstrous malice on the part of what the Scriptures endlessly portray as a loving God with a perfect balance of the attributes of justice and mercy, most succinctly and essentially displayed at Calvary. The Lamb of God taketh away the sin of the world. Without Christ and Him crucified, it would be impossible to justly dispatch even the sin of the finally impenitent.

The controversy over limited atonement would vanish if people would just stop trying to figure out how God can foreknow without predetermining (IOW, how He thinks ). He does it because He can. He can swing it. He's got the omnipotent chops. (Hmm, how else could I put it?)

When the topic arises in the Bible, it's virtually always about God's sovereignty over the nations and their leaders—not individual struggling souls.

Have you ever seen a debate that solved anything?

 

[robert derrick]

The only problem of The Predestinator is predestinating who will be saved, not how we must be saved.

Calvin's souls are not little Lambs made from the foundation of the world, to be saved by the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

All souls are God's, made living and equal in His sight by His Spirit in the lowest parts of the earth.

God only foreknew from the beginning who is being saved and who is not, because the Word that inhabits eternity is watching even now all souls of men on earth, whereby the God He was with in the beginning, foreknows all things from the beginning.

God therefore foreknows all souls of men that will be saved, according to His predestinated commandment to be conformed to the image of His dear Son.

God foreknows who, and predestinates what they must do to be saved.

Believing we are predestinated souls specifically for salvation, is the strong delusion that leads to continuing in sins and trespasses: if we believe we are specifically predetermined for salvation, then we believe we are saved according to the fates of paganism, whereby we must be, will be, and shall always be saved, no more what we we do or not.

It is the rotten core of OSAS: unconditional salvation once for all, based upon being specifically chosen for salvation by God, which cannot be annulled by any man, including his ongoing sins and trespasses.

 

[Johann]

trust: i absolutely trust God as judge to be fair and just. And thats why He’s so scary. He’s perfect, im not.
Hope: i hope to not goto hell.
Love: yea, i got nothing.

That's honesty man, and I love it, yeah, like you I have the same problem loving the "unseen"
Don't be hard on yourself, the fact that you are here and honest is indicative that you have been drawn by the Holy Spirit..next step is to "fall into" the Spirit.
Love you bro.
J.

 

[robert derrick]

@Lifelong_sinner

I never was a Calvinist.
Two years ago I was introduced to Calvinism by a very close friend of mine and since then no peace and no assurance re my salvation.
There is a member who fight, tooth and nail against this hideous, insipid teaching and I admire him.
J.

Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.

When any man obeys the Scripture by the power of God, to purify his heart and cleanse his mind of unrighteous thoughts for sin, then we will have the mind of Christ to cease sinning in the flesh: that is the perfect peace of them that are being saved by His grace.

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.

They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.

Willing ourselves and our minds to have peace by denying the conviction of the Spirit for continued sinning is the false peace of OSAS, which says once unconditionally saved always unconditionally saved.

There is no unconditional salvation of God by grace, but only being saved from our sins by grace to help endure and overcome all temptation.

Perfect peace is only for them who know they are overcomers of all flesh and have the eternal life of Christ living within them, even as Jesus did in the days of His flesh:

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

 

[Jim B]

Great, and no scriptures to prove your point.
I am going to do a search on every member using scriptures and those that don't. Should be interesting.
J.

I would be interested in how you are going to do this, as I consider it to be impossible. How will you know which answers are truthful?

 

[Lambano]

trust: i absolutely trust God as judge to be fair and just. And thats why He’s so scary.

I suppose that’s the beginning of wisdom.

Now if I could get you to trust Him to judge you with love, mercy, and grace, not because you deserve it but because scripture says that’s how God is, you’d be a much freer, more joyful, more trusting man.

Shall I quote the applicable verses to you, or leave this as an exercise for the student?

 

[Lambano]

Won't happen, I can promise you that.
J.

@BarnyFife, you should take this as a challenge!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Sadly Five Point Calvinism is actually an attack on the true Gospel. You should abandon it altogether, and go back to the Bible. While the Reformers had a golden opportunity to scrap all man-made ideas, they failed to scrap Five Point Calvinism.

I became a 5 pointer by reading Scripture alone without any theology!

I was told I was a five pointer early in my faith and I had to look that up to see what they meant!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Great, and no scriptures to prove your point.
I am going to do a search on every member using scriptures and those that don't. Should be interesting.
J.

Would you like me to post scriptures?

I see in your OP you did not cite a scripture. Just posted a video from a guy who used human reasoning and not Scripture tro refute the biblical points of Calvinism.

But let me know if you wish me to show you th ebiblical reasons of the 5 points, that were given as 5 points to refute teh 5 points of Armeniasm, which is just a revision of Catholic false doctrine.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Personalities of preachers aside (since the truth is true even when evil people say it):

Arminianism is a slightly flawed human distillation of soteriology.

But 5-point Calvinism in it's modern interpretation is a theological train wreck. The devotion given to fanatical loyalty to it requires a cognitive dissonance that denies the obvious presence of premeditated tyranny and monstrous malice on the part of what the Scriptures endlessly portray as a loving God with a perfect balance of the attributes of justice and mercy, most succinctly and essentially displayed at Calvary. The Lamb of God taketh away the sin of the world. Without Christ and Him crucified, it would be impossible to justly dispatch even the sin of the finally impenitent.

The controversy over limited atonement would vanish if people would just stop trying to figure out how God can foreknow without predetermining (IOW, how He thinks ). He does it because He can. He can swing it. He's got the omnipotent chops. (Hmm, how else could I put it?)

When the topic arises in the Bible, it's virtually always about God's sovereignty over the nations and their leaders—not individual struggling souls.

Have you ever seen a debate that solved anything?

Well I do not know if modern Calvinism is the same as biblical Calvinism. I do not keep up with everything people say. there is not enough time in a day. I have my mentors and pastors and only veer from them to prepare for apologetics or someone asks me to look into someone.

So if modern Calvinism is vastly different from historic biblical Calvinism I would love to see the differences.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Believing we are predestinated souls specifically for salvation, is the strong delusion that leads to continuing in sins and trespasses: if we believe we are specifically predetermined for salvation, then we believe we are saved according to the fates of paganism, whereby we must be, will be, and shall always be saved, no more what we we do or not.

It is the rotten core of OSAS: unconditional salvation once for all, based upon being specifically chosen for salvation by God, which cannot be annulled by any man, including his ongoing sins and trespasses.

Isn't that funny! All the preachers and teachers I know who believe in eihter OSAS and the 5 points or just OSAS preach holiness with a vengeance! Just like I do!

YOu preach absolute perfection which is the big lie!

 

[Johann]

But let me know if you wish me to show you th ebiblical reasons of the 5 points, that were given as 5 points to refute teh 5 points of Armeniasm, which is just a revision of Catholic false doctrine.

No need to Ronald
J.

 

[Johann]

I would be interested in how you are going to do this, as I consider it to be impossible. How will you know which answers are truthful?

A very good point you make there Jim.
J.

 

[Johann]

you should take this as a challenge!

What's the problem Lambano? Am I too boorish, uncouth in my speech?
Not refined and polished as you are?
J.