Run AWAY from Calvinism!

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BarneyFife

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Ol' Barn, we need anointed preaching like this here in South Africa.
You are an amazing God-fearing man!
Praise God for brothers in Christ.
AMEN!!
J.
You're very kind, Brother, but what I am is a great and mighty sinner before the LORD.
I know that in me dwelleth no good thing.
Daniel is one of the only main characters in the Bible who is portrayed without sin.
And yet, His testimony is thus:


4And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments; 5We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments: 6Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.

7O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee. 8O Lord, to us belongeth confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against thee. 9To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him; 10Neither have we obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets. 11Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him. 12And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem. 13As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth. 14Therefore hath the LORD watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the LORD our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice.



15And now, O Lord our God, that hast brought thy people forth out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and hast gotten thee renown, as at this day; we have sinned, we have done wickedly. 16O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us. 17Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake. 18O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies. 19O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.




20And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God; 21Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation. 22And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. 23At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
 

stunnedbygrace

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ahhhhh ok, i see whats going on now. So let me clarify my stance on christianity as i see and believe in it.
1. God’s days of mercy are over. Yes, He did show mercy and love by sending Jesus to die on the cross, but after that, Jesus went from Saviour to judge.
2. Jesus said He came as a lamb the first time, next time will be as a lion. He took the gloves off now.
3. The vast majority of mankind are going to end up in hell. Only the few, or the elect will be saved. When i go out, or am on this forum, im constantly thinking the majority of these people are going to hell. You ever gone to the grocery store, and while waiting in line, look around and wonder how many around you will make it to Heaven?? I do, everyday.
4. Theology and doctrine matter.
5. Assurance is something that im learning to live without. I dont think i’ll ever have it. And yet, i’ll still fight the good battle. I may be headed for hell, but at least im honest about it, and without pride to think im someone special.
6. My struggles have nothing to do with my beliefs. As a calvinist, those who are saved, know they are. Those who arent saved, know that also. My addictions started well before my religious beliefs started.

I began weeping at #1 and I cannot stop. Combined with my allergies, I’m in a horrible mess. I hate that this was done to you, that this is where men have led you.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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I must die daily. The salvation of my friends, family, and enemies depends on it

It stuns me when I hear a man who understands what love is…
It’s when we understand it that we begin to beg for what we see we lack.
 
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Lambano

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6. My struggles have nothing to do with my beliefs.
1. God’s days of mercy are over. Yes, He did show mercy and love by sending Jesus to die on the cross, but after that, Jesus went from Saviour to judge.
Your struggle to trust God has EVERYTHING in the world to do with your belief #1, that God is no longer loving and merciful. (Incidentally proving your point #4 that Theology DOES matter.)

Your belief #1 is totally contrary to the Reformed understanding of God. I told you I've followed a Reformed ministry for almost 30 years. Though I might disagree with them on TULIP, I've seen what the Reformed understanding of Christianity looks like. It should look like freedom, joy, and faithfulness. Faithfulness derives from trusting the love of God, not the other way around. Your belief #1 absolutely hinders you, and that is NOT part of Reformed theology. Reformed theology definitely believes in the ongoing mercy of God.

Sola Fide, Sola Christus, the cry of the Reformation. Trust alone in Christ alone to save YOU is the evidence of your election. It's a paradox, but election is secondary to trust, though the ordo salutis has them in the opposite order.

Tomorrow you meet with your pastor to plan out a course that will change your life. You will need every ounce of trust in God you have in you for this journey. I'm praying for you, and I encourage everyone on this thread to pray for you.
 
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Cassandra

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My poor memory makes it hard to hold a grudge for any length of time because too quickly I have forgotten the event. Is that God alone... or is it also common to people who are simply aging? Maybe God is giving us a break by means of our flawed memories...

Yes! I consider old age a blessing!!!!! Thank you Lord, for what we have, and what we can't remember!!!
 

BarneyFife

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This is why you cannot judge by a certain doctrine of men or a current opinion of a man. You must judge by fruit of the Spirit. It cannot be faked for long.
You will always spill whatever you are carrying when someone bumps into you.
Wise words, as is common to you, but however technical the difference may be, we are told that we can "know" by the fruits, which does not necessarily constitute "judgment." I say this after remembering the importance you recently placed on the meaning of the word "faith," anticipating the objection you might have to my use of the word in my latest post. - lol
 

Ronald Nolette

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When I heard this, my mind is made up.
J.

Well I only got to his rebuttal of TUand L and couldn't take it anymore.

I would love to meet this preacher in his church and debate him of the Biblicalness of the five points of Calvinism.

He either used a book that limits what they choose to saying the points or is lying!

The five points are extraordinarily biblical. But some of the commentators who speak of them have stirred controversy. Like the L for limited atonement. Hyper Calvinists believe Jesus died only for the elect, but that is not te4h standard teaching of limited atonement.

This man uses different authors writing on controversial opinions that are not the mainstream belief of those who see the five points as what Scripture teaches.

there is a book by Packer and Sproul ( i strongly disagree with their reformed theology BTW) that isan excellent biblical treatise discussing the five points.

Teh is preacher makes his own conclusions such as " If you can't make a right choice, you can't make a wrong choice either"! that is pure human philosophy!

My biggest animosity towards him is his lying! He says He has no animosity towards anyone, but started his message by saying anyone who believes in Calvinism has departed from the faith and is listening to doctrines of demons! IOW unsaved folks! Seems ti me he is saying trusting in the death and resurrection of Jesus AND not believing in any of the five points of Calvinsim is required to be saved! Other wise you have fallen from the faith!

I really would love to sit across this man and debate him in front of as many as could be seated and on TV and internet! He needs to chopped down a whole lot of pegs.

He is a five point Armeniast (that is why the Calvinists made their answer five points) which means he accepts the Catholic doctrine on these points!
 

Enoch111

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I would love to meet this preacher in his church and debate him of the Biblicalness of the five points of Calvinism.
Sadly Five Point Calvinism is actually an attack on the true Gospel. You should abandon it altogether, and go back to the Bible. While the Reformers had a golden opportunity to scrap all man-made ideas, they failed to scrap Five Point Calvinism.
 
J

Johann

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I cant figure out why so many look at calvinism and say “its not Biblical” like which of the 5 parts arent true?? When i hear someone say calvinism is false, the first thing that comes to my mind is, that person has a sin they dont wanna give up.

All believers in Christ, whether you are Armenian or Calvinist, we all commit ACTS of sin daily..yet some here, and this is beyond my finite mind, claim they have reached absolute perfection while in the body and are perfectly sinless, in word, thought and deed.
Blessings
J.
 
J

Johann

Guest
Well I only got to his rebuttal of TUand L and couldn't take it anymore.

I would love to meet this preacher in his church and debate him of the Biblicalness of the five points of Calvinism.

He either used a book that limits what they choose to saying the points or is lying!

The five points are extraordinarily biblical. But some of the commentators who speak of them have stirred controversy. Like the L for limited atonement. Hyper Calvinists believe Jesus died only for the elect, but that is not te4h standard teaching of limited atonement.

This man uses different authors writing on controversial opinions that are not the mainstream belief of those who see the five points as what Scripture teaches.

there is a book by Packer and Sproul ( i strongly disagree with their reformed theology BTW) that isan excellent biblical treatise discussing the five points.

Teh is preacher makes his own conclusions such as " If you can't make a right choice, you can't make a wrong choice either"! that is pure human philosophy!

My biggest animosity towards him is his lying! He says He has no animosity towards anyone, but started his message by saying anyone who believes in Calvinism has departed from the faith and is listening to doctrines of demons! IOW unsaved folks! Seems ti me he is saying trusting in the death and resurrection of Jesus AND not believing in any of the five points of Calvinsim is required to be saved! Other wise you have fallen from the faith!

I really would love to sit across this man and debate him in front of as many as could be seated and on TV and internet! He needs to chopped down a whole lot of pegs.

He is a five point Armeniast (that is why the Calvinists made their answer five points) which means he accepts the Catholic doctrine on these points!

Great, and no scriptures to prove your point.
I am going to do a search on every member using scriptures and those that don't. Should be interesting.
J.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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I have read enough to know Calvin and his teachings are wrong...for example, you can be born again BEFORE you believe...twisting and wresting the Holy writ...if I could i would remove all posts of the Reformers and THEIR writings..almost like the Mohammed and his Quran
Guess I was on a wrong path for two years.
The Lord knows my heart
God bless
J.

I thought I could maybe be considered a Calvinist once after I first read about it. But what initially made sense to me upon a first reading became hideous to me when I saw that the staunch calvinists I ran across didn’t seem to know about love to me and any set of doctrines or isms that lead to that are not God. When you take any staunch doctrines and play them out to their end, you see that men don’t have love but only have isms that discard or explain away too many verses and parables. Past them all, three things remain - trust, hope and love. If those don’t remain, you have nothing but odious clanging cymbals.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Wise words, as is common to you, but however technical the difference may be, we are told that we can "know" by the fruits, which does not necessarily constitute "judgment." I say this after remembering the importance you recently placed on the meaning of the word "faith," anticipating the objection you might have to my use of the word in my latest post. - lol

I think I missed a post…I am not careful enough to not speed read unless I have no work for the day. It looks like Tuesdays are going to be that day for me now in this new work endeavor I’ve embarked on. But it looks like you’re saying know them by their fruits does not necessarily mean the discernment to know what is really fake fruit? If so, I agree. The trail of damaged and maimed people who have “come out of her” are visible proof of this.
 
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Lambano

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I thought I could maybe be considered a Calvinist once after I first read about it. But what initially made sense to me upon a first reading became hideous to me when I saw that the staunch calvinists I ran across didn’t seem to know about love to me and any set of doctrines or isms that lead to that are not God. When you take any staunch doctrines and play them out to their end, you see that men don’t have love but only have isms that discard or explain away too many verses and parables. Past them all, three things remain - trust, hope and love. If those don’t remain, you have nothing but odious clanging cymbals.
I understand what you're saying, and generally speaking, I have had similar experiences. However, coming from a board that was hosted by a Reformed ministry and had a far higher percentage of Calvinists (I had one tell me, "I've never met an actual Arminian before"), I can also say from experience that it doesn't have to be that way. Right off the bat, I remember a dear sister and an earthy brother who held tight to the 5 points, but yet knew love and shared love. I miss them terribly, and in particular brother Pete would've made an excellent friend for LLS because he's been through some of the same things LLS is facing.

I do think that there is something about systematic theology itself (did I really say that I respected the process that developed Calvinism?) that is loveless and attracts those for whom the logic and order and the illusion of understanding God are more important than the relational aspect, the love thingy.

(This isn't quite saying what I want to say, the way I want to say it, so I'll probably need to edit it 5 or 10 times.)
(Edit count = 4 and rising.)
 
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