Romans 6:22

[BreadOfLife]

RIGHT!

And I’ll deal with you swiftly loud mouth!

It is no sin to live as the Jews!
It’s not expedient to the faith, buts it’s no sin!

“I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?” (Galatians 2:14)

Paul himself lived as a Jew at times to accommodate customs:

“Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.” (Acts 21:26)

Another load of dung that I will swiftly clean up!

“And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.” (1 Timothy 1:12-13)

Paul made the “chief of sinners” comment In reference to his PAST actions before his conversion to give hope to current sinners who might think they couldn’t forgiven their sins.

“This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.” (1 Timothy 1:15-16)

He himself tells Timothy later in the letter to:

“…keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Timothy 6:13-14)

And how can a current “chief of sinners” do these things without being an hypocrite:

“I told you before, and foretell you, as if I were present, the second time; and being absent now I write to them which heretofore have sinned, and to all other, that, if I come again, I will not spare” (2 Corinthians 13:2)

YOU ARE THE PERVERTER HERE, NOT ME!

Why don’t you go and figure out why your church leaders wear costumes before trying to correct others!

Temper, temper . . .
Calm down and I’ll explain WHY you’re dead wrong.

First of al – Peter DID sin when he refused to eat with Gentiles. He was no longer under the Law but in CHRST. Those of us who are actually IN Christ know that we no longer have excuses for our behavior. If it is not pleasing in God’s eyes – it is SIN.
Why do you think Paul “REBULKED” him Einstein?

As for the example you gave about Paul “living as a Jew” in Acts 21:26 – this had NOTHING to do with shunning his fellow man, as Peter’s behavior did. This should be blindingly-clear to a REAL student of Scripture . . .

As to Paul admitting that he IS chief if sinners (not “WAS”) – he listed SOME of the things he is no longer guilty of (persecuting, blaspheming, etc.). He is NOT saying that he no longer stumbles.

Finally – 1 Timothy 6:13-14, Paul is admonishing Timothy to fulfill his mission with purity. We are ALL supposed to STRUVE not to sin.
WHY would he advise him to sin, Einstein??

Once again – you’ve perverted the Scriptures to fit YOU twisted mold.
The arrogance that ALL of Christendom is wrong except for a select few who believe this nonsense is astounding . . .

Peter wrote well about YOU -
2 Pet. 3:16
He (Paul) writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

 

[MatthewG]

Settle down, have a cola, and some breakfast.

 

[Illuminator]

The eternal God, who is a Spirit, is beholden to the customs and manners of his creation?

Where did you learn this philosophy?

Let me guess…



Because I haven’t been leavened by all the “study” tools you corrupted yourself with.

Which is why you “don’t see it” when it comes to the word of God.

What distinguished the Catholic reformers of the 16th century from the Protestants was their method. The Protestants thought that they had a way of knowing the doctrines and practices of the Apostolic Church without recourse to the Church's magisterium, which they believed was discredited.

Their recourse was to literary analysis. It is part of the Protestant tradition to suspend judgment on doctrine until the individual
(Michiah-Imla) is satisfied that he can find it in the Scriptures, for "the whole counsel of God, concerning all things necessary for his own glory, man's salvation, faith and life is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture" (WCF 1:6).

No religious teacher, not even the Church, deserves credence unless he teaches what the reader, (Michiah-Imla) enlightened by the Spirit, finds in the Scriptures. The believer therefore must set for himself that this or that doctrine is true. Before Michiah-Imla accepts it, he weighs the doctrine in the balance of his own understanding of the Scriptures.

This is just the reverse of the Catholic's approach to belief. As the Catholic sees it, he must accept God on God's terms and not his own, which means to accept it from the hands of God's authorized teacher. It is not for him to "judge" the divine message but only to receive it. The basic difference between Catholic and Michiah-Imla's approach to religious truth is that Michiah-Imla constructs it, while the Catholic receives it so that no construction is called for or even in place of.

 

[Johann]

The eternal God, who is a Spirit, is beholden to the customs and manners of his creation?

Where did you learn this philosophy?

Let me guess…



Because I haven’t been leavened by all the “study” tools you corrupted yourself with.

Which is why you “don’t see it” when it comes to the word of God.

What distinguished the Catholic reformers of the 16th century from the Protestants was their method. The Protestants thought that they had a way of knowing the doctrines and practices of the Apostolic Church without recourse to the Church's magisterium, which they believed was discredited.

Their recourse was to literary analysis. It is part of the Protestant tradition to suspend judgment on doctrine until the individual
(Michiah-Imla) is satisfied that he can find it in the Scriptures, for "the whole counsel of God, concerning all things necessary for his own glory, man's salvation, faith and life is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture" (WCF 1:6).

No religious teacher, not even the Church, deserves credence unless he teaches what the reader, (Michiah-Imla) enlightened by the Spirit, finds in the Scriptures. The believer therefore must set for himself that this or that doctrine is true. Before Michiah-Imla accepts it, he weighs the doctrine in the balance of his own understanding of the Scriptures.

This is just the reverse of the Catholic's approach to belief. As the Catholic sees it, he must accept God on God's terms and not his own, which means to accept it from the hands of God's authorized teacher. It is not for him to "judge" the divine message but only to receive it. The basic difference between Catholic and Michiah-Imla's approach to religious truth is that Michiah-Imla constructs it, while the Catholic receives it so that no construction is called for or even in place of.

Lol!
Sorry, this is priceless.
J.

 

[Behold]

God bless brother
J.

The verse says..>"if we sin willfully".

I dont think you need a Lexicon, as the english is as clear as a bell.

So, its not a question of SINNING willfully.

The problem is with teaching that this verse is directed at the born again.
As THAT is the heresy that is cause by "wrongly dividing" the verse.

LEGALISTS will always wrongly divided the verse, as they approach this verse with the belief that Salvation can be lost, so, that is what THEY read.
But that is not what the verse is doing, and THAT is the issue, at large, on forums, and in denominations.

Check your commentators and find out if they believe that the verse is directed at unsaved HEBREWS or toward the "body of christ".

You need to actually find that out..... and not just waste more time practicing your cut and paste skills.

really.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Peter wrote well about YOU -
2 Pet. 3:16
He (Paul) writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Michiah-Imla's approach to religious truth is that Michiah-Imla constructs it

I’ve already spoken my piece.

Time to let the dead horse lay and be buried…

 

[Illuminator]

I’ve already spoken my piece.

Yes, you have no need of manuals or study tools because your privatized relativistic liberal version of Christianity is more authoritive than anybody who has studied the Bible all their lives. You make that quite clear.

Time to let the dead horse lay and be buried…

Then stop beating a dead horse with your unbiblical approach to the Bible.

2 Timothy 3
[14] But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, (Tradition)
knowing from whom you learned it (Magisterium)
[15] and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. (Scriptures)
[16] All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
[17] that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Note verse 14-15. It admonishes Timothy to do three things:

1. Remember what you have learned and firmly believed (Tradition)
2. Know from whom you learned it (Magisterium)
3. Know you have the Scriptures

The Bible on St. Paul's list comes in third, not first. He actually gives here the traditional Catholic teaching on the three sources of sound teaching.
In verse 15 he goes into an excursus on the Bible. This brief excursus emphasizes the value of the Bible and recommends a fourfold method of exegesis. This verse was used in the pre-Reformation Church as a proof text for the Quadriga which was the standard Catholic approach to the Bible. Still taught today. (CCC115-119) The Quadriga method used the following four categories:

• Literal/Literary (teaching) - the text as it is written
• Analogical (reproof) - matters of faith
• Anagogical (correction) - matters of hope/prophecy
• Moral (training in righteousness) - matters of charity

The analogical, anagogical and moral senses of the Bible were known collectively as the spiritual senses.
The 'reformers' rejected the BIBLICAL fourfold method of exegesis in favor of a more literal approach, and ignored 2 Tim 3:16!!!

 

[BreadOfLife]

I’ve already spoken my piece.

Time to let the dead horse lay and be buried…

Said the guy who LOST the argumewnt.
Your Protestant Fathers didn't even beven this nonsense . . .

 

[Johann]

The verse says..>"if we sin willfully".

I dont think you need a Lexicon, as the english is as clear as a bell.

So, its not a question of SINNING willfully.

The problem is with teaching that this verse is directed at the born again.
As THAT is the heresy that is cause by "wrongly dividing" the verse.

LEGALISTS will always wrongly divided the verse, as they approach this verse with the belief that Salvation can be lost, so, that is what THEY read.
But that is not what the verse is doing, and THAT is the issue, at large, on forums, and in denominations.

Check your commentators and find out if they believe that the verse is directed at unsaved HEBREWS or toward the "body of christ".

You need to actually find that out..... and not just waste more time practicing your cut and paste skills.

really.

Brother, I really don't know what your problem is, and I don't appreciate what you are typing here, to me.

You show me one error in one of my posts, copy and paste, I will gladly correct it, but I have found numerous errors from your side, no offense.
Purpose, Occasion, and Background

The genre of Hebrews is unusual. The book is without an introduction or
other early indications that it is a letter. Yet the final verses do pass on
greetings and blessings (13:23–25), and the author speaks of having “written
to you” (13:22). However, the author also identifies his work as a “word of
exhortation” (13:22). The careful rhetorical progression of the book, along
with its frequent practical exhortations, has led many to consider it a single
sermon. Perhaps Hebrews is best understood as a sermonic letter.
Hebrews frequently encourages the audience to endure and warns against
leaving Christ (2:1–4; 3:7–4:13; 5:11–6:12; 10:19–39; 12:1–29). These
warning passages are interspersed throughout the book (see chart) and have
noticeable structural similarities (esp. in terms of exhortation and threatened
consequence). Around these passages the argument of the book progresses
carefully.

Moreover, these specific exhortations themselves flow out of the
surrounding material. Thus the book is unified in both structure and intent.
The warning passages exhort church participants to remain faithful. The
more expository sections of the epistle show the superiority of Christ and his
new covenant work to angels, Moses, the tabernacle priesthood, and the
sacrificial system.

The implication is that these are so inferior to Christ that
it is futile to return to them (or to go anywhere else). Thus the book
encourages the church to hold fast to its faith, because that faith is grounded
in the most superior revelation.

The background of such exhortations must have been the audience’s need
to continue enduring through persecution and the trials of life (e.g., ch. 12).

They appear to have grown less attentive to Christian instruction (5:11–14);
and some apparently have ceased regular attendance at their meetings
(10:25).

Nonetheless, the author reminds them of their past faithfulness and
communal love in the midst of persecution (10:32–34). He encourages their
faithfulness by careful exposition of the OT in light of the revelation in Jesus
Christ.

The soteriology (salvation teaching) of Hebrews is rooted in its
Christology—the Son of God became the heavenly high priest, who offered
himself as a sacrifice once for all. Christ obtained salvation for all who
approach in faith (6:1; 11:6; cf. 4:2), and such faith perseveres until it
receives the promised eternal reward (6:12; 10:22, 38–39).

The book of Hebrews written to believers friend

Chapter 1
The Nature of the Son (Hebrews 1:1-4)
The Son Superior to Angels (Hebrews 1:5-14)
Chapter 2
Warning against Neglect (Hebrews 2:1-4)
Jesus and Humanity (Hebrews 2:5-18)
Chapter 3
Our Apostle and High Priest (Hebrews 3:1-6)
Warning against Unbelief (Hebrews 3:7-19)
Chapter 4
The Promised Rest (Hebrews 4:1-13)
Our Great High Priest (Hebrews 4:14-16)
Chapter 5
The Messiah, a High Priest (Hebrews 5:1-10)
The Problem of Immaturity (Hebrews 5:11-14)
Chapter 6
Warning against Regression (Hebrews 6:1-12)
Inheriting the Promise (Hebrews 6:13-20)
Chapter 7
The Greatness of Melchizedek (Hebrews 7:1-10)
A Superior Priesthood (Hebrews 7:11-28)
Chapter 8
A Heavenly Priesthood (Hebrews 8:1-6)
A Superior Covenant (Hebrews 8:7-13)
Chapter 9
Old Covenant Ministry (Hebrews 9:1-10)
New Covenant Ministry (Hebrews 9:11-28)
Chapter 10
The Perfect Sacrifice (Hebrews 10:1-18)
Exhortations to Godliness (Hebrews 10:19-25)
Warning against Deliberate Sin (Hebrews 10:26-39)
Chapter 11
Heroes of Faith (Hebrews 11:1-40)
Chapter 12
The Call to Endurance (Hebrews 12:1-2)
Fatherly Discipline (Hebrews 12:3-13)
Warning against Rejecting God's Grace (Hebrews 12:14-29)
Chapter 13
Final Exhortations (Hebrews 13:1-19)
Benediction and Farewell (Hebrews 13:20-25)

What's wrong in warning believers of the pitfalls? The ditches?

Are you trolling me @Behold?

I am holding myself accountable to two brothers only, on this Forum, and if you don't "like" the copy and paste, maybe someone else will benefit.
J.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

your privatized relativistic liberal version of Christianity is more authoritive

@Illuminator

“…thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.” (Romans 11:20-21)

Even you yourself are under this scripture’s authority. Now all you (and the other reprobates here) can do is whip out some commentary or study manual that uses good words and fair speeches to completely make void this scripture using the Jews and the law as your sacrificial scapegoat so you can absolve yourself of any responsibility of observing it.

I post scripture alone, then somehow the gainsayers accuse me of perverting the scriptures while they are the ones pulling out unbiblical references to make scripture void.

The majority of “Christians” are hypocrite reprobates that are being used by the Devil so effectively.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Said the guy who LOST the argumewnt.
Your Protestant Fathers didn't even beven this nonsense . . .

Your assembly, the Protestants, and all the other Bible perverting reprobate assemblies will stand before God one day and answer for their deceitful works.

All of you reprobates have your own study tools to keep the people inline.

I will never break under the intense pressure of this demonic force you are all under!

NEVER!!!

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” (Ephesians 6:12)

 

[Johann]

You, the Protestants, and all the other Bible perverting reprobate assemblies will stand before God one day and answer for your deceitful works.

All you reprobates have your own study tools to keep the people inline.

I will never break under the intense pressure of this demonic force you are all under!

NEVER!!!

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” (Ephesians 6:12)

....and that is what you are doing, wrestling against flesh and blood [fellow pilgrims]

instead of where it really matters.

wrestle: Luk_13:24; 1Co_9:25-27; 2Ti_2:5; Heb_12:1, Heb_12:4

flesh and blood: Gr. blood and flesh, Mat_16:17; 1Co_15:50; Gal_1:16

principalities: Eph_1:21, Eph_3:10; Rom_8:38; Col_2:15; 1Pe_3:22

against the: Eph_2:2; Job_2:2; Luk_22:53; Joh_12:31, Joh_14:30, Joh_16:11; Act_26:18; 2Co_4:4; Col_1:13

spiritual wickedness: or, wicked spirits
high: or, heavenly, Eph_1:3

 

[Illuminator]

​

Your assembly, the Protestants, and all the other Bible perverting reprobate assemblies will stand before God one day and answer for their deceitful works.

All of you reprobates have your own study tools to keep the people inline.

I will never break under the intense pressure of this demonic force you are all under!

NEVER!!!

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” (Ephesians 6:12)

I get it. Everyone who disagrees with your privatized liberal relativism is reprobate and demonic.

@Illuminator

“…thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.” (Romans 11:20-21)

Even you yourself are under this scripture’s authority. Now all you (and the other reprobates here) can do is whip out some commentary or study manual that uses good words and fair speeches to completely make void this scripture using the Jews and the law as your sacrificial scapegoat so you can absolve yourself of any responsibility of observing it.

I post scripture alone, then somehow the gainsayers accuse me of perverting the scriptures while they are the ones pulling out unbiblical references to make scripture void.

The majority of “Christians” are hypocrite reprobates that are being used by the Devil so effectively.

I posted "scripture alone" in post #369 and you ran from it.

Your assembly, the Protestants, and all the other Bible perverting reprobate assemblies will stand before God one day and answer for their deceitful works.

All of you reprobates have your own study tools to keep the people inline.

I will never break under the intense pressure of this demonic force you are all under!

NEVER!!!

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” (Ephesians 6:12)

I get it. Everyone is wrong except you.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Everyone is wrong except you.

Everyone is wrong except the HOLY BIBLE!!

Get it straight!

Even your precious study books!

 

[Enoch111]

1 John 1:9 is not for the Born again. 1 John 3:9 is for the born again. Try to figure out why, Enoch111

Well guess what? Since the entire epistle is written to the children of God ("brethren"), you are clearly mistaken, and that is why your doctrine is false. Anyone can see to whom John is writing, but you are pretending that John is trying to confuse everyone.

John makes it clear that the new nature -- "the inner man" does not sin. At the same time the old nature ( "the flesh") has not been eradicated. Therefore it any Christian claims that he does not sin, he makes God a liar while deceiving himself. So "Behold" you are simply deceiving yourself. Never a good thing.

 

[Behold]

Well guess what? Since the entire epistle is written to the children of God

I dont "guess" regarding the word of God.

Now, notice the title of Paul's letter : HEBREWS.

See that?
Its the epistle to the HEBREWS.....
If it was directed as most of Paul's epistles are , then it would specify that its to the "church at , .. or it would be to a person.
Paul is very careful about the letter heading.
You are not very careful about noticing the 1st Chapter's in Paul's epistles.

This is a unique letter, that is not written TO a local body of believers or to a person..
Its a sort of universal letter, written to the HEBREWS, and in it you have much teaching that is for the believer, that is doctrine, and you also have Paul witnessing to unsaved Jews (Hebrews)

People like you, forget that these apostles were preachers, first and foremost.
They preached , and its shown in some of the epistles that they did., and to whom.

1 John 1:9 is John preaching to the lost.

Hebrews 6 and 10, and Acts 28.... you find Paul preaching to unsaved JEWS. ( Hebrews).

Youve not been taught this, so, i understand that you dont know it.
But now you do, and if you will use this knowledge when you read the Apostle's letters, you'll note that sometimes they are not talking to the CHURCH, they are talking to deceivers, greeks, unbelievers, and HATEFUL HEBREWS, among others.

 

[Enoch111]

Youve not been taught this, so, i understand that you dont know it.

So you think you are the Guru here, and everyone else is stupid? That reveals how self-deceived you are. You do not even qualify as a novice, since you cannot comprehend basic Gospel truths. And your writing style reveals that you need to make a serious effort to learn how to write. I could coach you if you want.

 

[Behold]

So you think you are the Guru here,

There is no such thing as a Born again Guru.

And as always, you are only looking to Troll my Threads because you have no capacity to do anything else on them.
Your posts always come to me in the form befitting a cultish, closed minded Legalist, and that has not changed in the 18 months + you've been Trolling my Threads.

Thats on you.

 

[Johann]

So you think you are the Guru here, and everyone else is stupid? That reveals how self-deceived you are. You do not even qualify as a novice, since you cannot comprehend basic Gospel truths. And your writing style reveals that you need to make a serious effort to learn how to write. I could coach you if you want.

Preach: Psa_40:9; Isa_61:1-3; Jon_3:2; Luk_4:18-19, Luk_9:60; Rom_10:15; Col_1:25, Col_1:28

be: Luk_7:4, Luk_7:23; Act_13:5 *marg. Rom_12:12; 1Ti_4:15-16
in: Joh_4:6-10, Joh_4:32-34; Act_16:13, Act_16:31-33, Act_20:7, Act_20:18-21, Act_28:16, Act_28:30-31

reprove: Col_1:28-29; 1Th_2:11-12, 1Th_5:14, 1Th_5:20; Tit_1:13, Tit_2:15; Heb_13:22; Rev_3:19
exhort: 1Ti_4:13
all: 2Ti_2:21, 2Ti_2:25,

Brothers, please, have a cup of tea, and get away from the computer for a while..
J.

 

[Illuminator]

Everyone is wrong except the HOLY BIBLE!!

Yes, you make it very clear. Everyone is wrong except your privatized liberal relativism.

Get it straight!

Text without context is a pretext. The Bible without the Church is just an excuse.

Even your precious study books!

Study books aren't precious, they are useful for every denomination that has them in support of a particular bias. Some are good; some are downright ridiculous, like the Left Behind series.
"Bible alone" theory assumes the Teaching Authority of the Church, with authentic Christian practices, is not needed for sound teaching. This forces you to write your own study book on Ephesians 4:11-15, which refutes "Bible alone" theory.

If 2 Timothy 3 proves the sole sufficiency of Scripture, then, by analogy, Ephesians 4 would likewise prove the sufficiency of pastors and teachers for the attainment of Christian perfection. In Ephesians 4, the Christian believer is equipped, built up, brought into unity and mature manhood, and even preserved from doctrinal confusion by means of the teaching function of the Church.
This is a far stronger statement of the perfecting of the saints than 2 Timothy 3, yet it does not even mention Scripture.

A Quick Ten-Step Refutation of Sola Scriptura

Catholics agree with Protestants that Scripture is a “standard of truth”—even the preeminent one—but not in a sense that rules out the binding authority of authentic apostolic Tradition and the Church. The Bible doesn’t teach that.

www.catholic.com