Romans 11 and the real Replacement Theology

[covenantee]

And what does Timothy have to do with subject matter written in the Bible?

Timothy is in my Bible.

Is he not in yours?

 

[Peterlag]

say whaaa??

I'll stick with the eternal 'Christ administration' thank you very much!

Viva Cristo Rey

I do not know why we have so many Christians who believe the entire Bible is written directly to them, the Church of God. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate such thinking, and I would like to add nothing could be further from the truth. It's true the Word of God was written for everyone for all time, and it's for our learning because it contains what everyone should know. That does not mean every part of it is addressed to everyone in this time, because the subject matter was written either to the Jews, to the Gentiles, or to the Church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32).

 

[Peterlag]

say whaaa??

I'll stick with the eternal 'Christ administration' thank you very much!

Viva Cristo Re

I do not know why we have so many Christians who believe the entire Bible is written directly to them, the Church of God. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate such thinking, and I would like to add nothing could be further from the truth. It's true the Word of God was written for everyone for all time, and it's for our learning because it contains what everyone should know. That does not mean every part of it is addressed to everyone in this time, because the subject matter was written either to the Jews, to the Gentiles, or to the Church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32).

 

[Peterlag]

Timothy is in my Bible.

Is he not in yours?

I do not know why we have so many Christians who believe the entire Bible is written directly to them, the Church of God. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate such thinking, and I would like to add nothing could be further from the truth. It's true the Word of God was written for everyone for all time, and it's for our learning because it contains what everyone should know. That does not mean every part of it is addressed to everyone in this time, because the subject matter was written either to the Jews, to the Gentiles, or to the Church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32).

 

[covenantee]

I do not know why we have so many Christians who believe the entire Bible is written directly to them, the Church of God. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate such thinking, and I would like to add nothing could be further from the truth. It's true the Word of God was written for everyone for all time, and it's for our learning because it contains what everyone should know. That does not mean every part of it is addressed to everyone in this time, because the subject matter was written either to the Jews, to the Gentiles, or to the Church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32).

Is 2 Timothy 2:15 about dispensations?

 

[Peterlag]

Well that's a real pity. It means you can never grow more. What's even more of a pity is that you're already as grown as you can get because you conflate a man, a mere fallible mortal, with the Holy Spirit, so that whatever this man believed, is pure truth in your mind, with no mixture of his own human fallibility:​

@Peterlag I counsel you to study the scriptures from scratch again, praying to God the Father in the name of Jesus Christ to give you wisdom, and to give you insight and understanding of His Word that you read and study.

God knows more than EW Bullinger, and God knows better than EW Bullinger or anyone else.

What Bullinger did in one of his books is teach how to read the Bible. A book that would do you well.

 

[covenantee]

What Bullinger did in one of his books is teach how to read the Bible. A book that would do you well.

There are 17 centuries of defenders of the true Christian faith prior to Bullinger.

With which of them do his dispensational teachings agree?

 

[Peterlag]

There are 17 centuries of defenders of the true Christian faith prior to Bullinger.

With which of them do his dispensational teachings agree?

And you don't see the teachings in the Epistles are concerning the Christian and the Old Testament about the doctrine concerning Israel?

 

[Jack]

I’ve been following along and don’t understand why you talk like a child and not a man. What I mean is, your replies are child like. This is not a response from a man of God who’s patient, willing to teach and a good listener.

Is Abraham your father?

Are you not a fellow citizen of Israel since the wall of partition has been broken?

Do you recognize 2 Israel’s and that only one of the 2 are heirs of the promise and are the children of God?

Do you recognize a true Jew is one inwardly and not by birth?

To you, What was meant by Paul calling the Galatians (former Gentiles) the Israel of God?

You had your opportunity to join in. Go back and reply directly to your comments, like and adult Christian would do.

 

[covenantee]

And you don't see the teachings in the Epistles are concerning the Christian and the Old Testament about the doctrine concerning Israel?

Bullinger's dispensationalism does not appear in 17 centuries of historical true Christian orthodoxy.

 

[Zao is life]

What Bullinger did in one of his books is teach how to read the Bible. A book that would do you well.

He never knew himself how to read the Bible without making false assumptions. Your faith is in man. You would do well to throw away Bullinger's books.

"So says the LORD, Cursed is the man who trusts in man, and makes flesh his arm, and whose heart departs from the LORD." -- Jeremiah 17:5

 

[Zao is life]

And what does Timothy have to do with subject matter written in the Bible?

Timothy is part of the subject matter written in the Bible.

Have you ever read the Bible? Or do you only read Bullinger?

 

[Zao is life]

I do not know why we have so many Christians who believe the entire Bible is written directly to them, the Church of God. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate such thinking, and I would like to add nothing could be further from the truth.

The church of God has existed from the very first time God called a man out from where he was living to become separated unto God, i.e from the time God called Abraham. The church (ekklēsía) means "the called out from". See how you contradicted what you said above with what you said below:

It's true the Word of God was written for everyone for all time, and it's for our learning because it contains what everyone should know.

You even contradict the above with what you say below:

That does not mean every part of it is addressed to everyone in this time, because the subject matter was written either to the Jews, to the Gentiles, or to the Church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32).

This was addressed to the Jews:

"So says the LORD, Cursed is the man who trusts in man, and makes flesh his arm, and whose heart departs from the LORD". Jeremiah 17:5

How can what was written to the Jews or anyone else who were part of the called out group (the church) be for our learning, then?

See how you contradict yourself over and over? Bullinger has you confused as to how to read the Bible. This much is obvious.

You have trusted too much in man's teaching you "how to read the Bible" instead of relying on God to teach you how to read the Bible.

 

[Zao is life]

Where are you getting this grafting from? It's probably around Romans 10 through 12. That section Paul clearly stops talking about Christians and starts talking only to Jews. He tells you that right up at the top of chapter 10. Context. You need to look at who he's talking to and referring to and what time period. Revelation again is mostly all Jewish right down to the candle sticks and all of that stuff mentioned. It has nothing to do with Christians.

The above is total nonsense. Who told you that? Bullinger again?

 

[Davy]

@Davy says: Not pointing to Jesus when He was born in the flesh. I was pointing to God's election back in The Old Testament Books

The Bible beginning with Genesis points to BOTH the WORD that was God and to the WORD that became flesh = JESUS
CHICKENS before Eggs = "HE is BEFORE ALL things" and "in HIM ALL things(Jews & Gentiles) consist"

I do not doubt Lord Jesus Christ being God, i.e., one Person in The 3-Person Godhead of God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit, if that's what you're getting at. So that topic is irrelevant to what I was saying regarding God's election of the 'seed' of Israel in The Old Testament Books. Jesus was not born in the flesh of woman's womb back then, so that's not what I was pointing to either.

There is only one SEED of Promise whereby the Promise is Eternal Life to everyone(Jew & Gentile) who receives Yeshua HaMoshiach.

Here in John chapter 8 Jesus separates the Promised Seed from those who are purely of the flesh(DNA) of Abraham.

John chapter 8
“I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you.
I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with your father.”

They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. You do the deeds of your father.”

Jesus was simply agreeing to be agreeing with them about their false claim of being Abraham's descendants. Notice they said in John 8:33 they had never... been in bondage to any man. I guess you missed that. The children of Israel were... in bondage during their time in Egypt to the Egyptians. By these in John 8 saying they were never in bondage to any man, it points to them as 'foreigners', and NOT of the actual 'seed' of the children of Israel. That is why Jesus pointed to the devil as being their father, and why He said they were not of God, which points to Jesus' explanation of His parable of the tares of the field in Matthew 13.

Matt 13:37-39
37 He answered and said unto them, "He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
KJV

That was Jesus explaining His parable of the tares to His disciples, not giving another parable on top of it. It means those "tares" represent Satan's own very elect servants at work here on earth serving the negative side of God's Plan. This is why Jude 4 reveals there are certain men 'ordained' to that negative working. Those are the ones Jesus was talking to in John 8, which represents those that crept in among Judah early in history, like the Canaanites of Judges 2 and 3, and Joshua 9, and 1 Kings 9, and Ezra 2 and Ezra 9.

Is Christ's Salvation offered to them too? Yes, IF... they will turn to Jesus Christ and believe.

Thus there IS... a huge... difference between DECEIVED Jews which God Himself spiritually blinded away from The Gospel, like Apostle Paul said in Romans 11, vs. the crept in unawares of the "synagogue of Satan" which represent the devil's elect of the pagan nations, like the Canaanites. This is why it says in the very last verse of Zechariah 14, for the time after Jesus has returned and is reigning over all nations, at that time there shall no more be the Canaanite in the house of God.

 

[No Pre-TB]

You had your opportunity to join in. Go back and reply directly to your comments, like and adult Christian would do.

Sir, The questions were for you. If you don’t want to discuss them, thats your prerogative. I will happily talk to others as I continue to do. Either way, let love guide us in actions and words.

 

[Timtofly]

This is silly. Anyone who accepts Christ is a Christian whether Jew, Indian, Chinese, etc etc.

It is also silly when they add another ethnicity to the term American. We are all Americans, no?

A Christian is a Christian. That is not an ethnicity like American. Being a Christian is a relationship with God. One is born into Israel, to be Israel. Currently no one is born into Israel as there are no natural branches, because ethnicity does not matter in Christ. Christ is not an ethnicity.

Under the OT Covenant, one was born naturally into Israel. Wild branches were even grafted in, if they converted under the Law. But even then they were in Christ, until one was cut off in unbelief. That is what being a natural branch afforded.

A wild branch grafted in does not become a natural branch. They are still just a wild branch grafted in. It is an analogy. One cannot change into something else even in an analogy. When Paul pointed out that ethnicity did not matter, that did not mean all became natural branches. It meant all became wild branches needed to be grafted in. Israel was never the root, nor the trunk, nor the tree. Jesus was the spiritual source and all are in Christ, not in Israel.

The analogy was given to show there is a difference between Israel and the church, not that the church replaced Israel, nor was a continuation. If one accepts Israel was the church under the OT Covenant that is one thing, but one cannot say that the church is now Israel, because that contradicts the analogy. They replace what the church means under the NT and force the NT into the OT economy. Israel was in Christ under the OT. Now the church is in Christ under the NT. Those of Jacob still have to enter into Christ like everyone else on earth.

 

[Timtofly]

The church of God has existed from the very first time God called a man out from where he was living to become separated unto God, i.e from the time God called Abraham.

Adam was the first called out son of God, from among many sons of God, and placed in the church, the Garden of Eden.

Adam was the steward over two trees. That was the responsibility of that first congregation.

Adam was called out 2,000 years before Abraham. Abraham was called out 2,000 years before Christ came.

Adam failed miserably. But that does not mean Adam was not a smart steward. Adam disobeyed God. Disobedience is what gets all stewards into trouble. Ask Moses how Disobedience works. Even Abraham and Sarah got impatient and placed the nation of Israel on a 600 year waiting list, until the nation of Ishmael had run her course.

One may deny dispensations, but they did happen. Each one different in several ways.

 

[Zao is life]

Adam was the first called out son of God, from among many sons of God, and placed in the church, the Garden of Eden.

Sorry Tim. Adam was not called out from among all others. He was created and placed in Christ. He was the first to be expelled.

He was expelled through unbelief of the Word of God, which brought about sin, and sin brought death to mankind, because the wages of sin is death.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Sorry Tim. Adam was not called out from among all others. He was created and placed in Christ. He was the first to be expelled.

He was expelled through unbelief of the Word of God, which brought about sin, and sin brought death to mankind, because the wages of sin is death.

Well, for example when God asked Adam and Eve "where they were," knowing, of course full well where they were. It was all done to be written in Scripture for our learning, not actually speaking to tell us or Adam He didn't know where they were. The true symbolism of that is it illustrates they were hiding because they knew they were naked (symbolic of sin) and in need of clothing (symbolic of Christ's righteousness).

Genesis 3:9-11

• "And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
• And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
• And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?"

This symbolic that Adam and Eve stood naked in trepass and sin and were now subject to death. But also in the following verses, God shows His mercy towards them by Himself making a sacrifice and using the skins of animals as clothing for them "representing" the righteousness of Christ. God does and says things for our spiritual edification using symbolic terms

Genesis 3:21

• "Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them."

They were clothed in the righteousness of Christ, illustrating the nakedness of their sins were covered by the skins of the sacrifice. Therefore, they are saved and chosen by God.