Revelation 9:1 - 11 Who are these locusts representing?

[TribulationSigns]

The fact that their king is an angel is a clue as to what the locusts represent.

In God's eyes, the locusts represent messengers coming with the spirit of Satan and their spiritual king is, of course, Satan.

I believe Abaddon/Apollyon is another name for Satan

Agreed, however...

Revelation 9:11

• "And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon."

I hope you understand that Satan is NOT an angel or even created being as most thought (more on this some other time). Satan is a SPIRIT the "messenger" of evil that started within Eve that was pass down to all of us. And Apollyon (or Abaddon) is Satan, that very same spirit and king ruling over the deceived and the unregenerate. Satan doesn't give command to Apollyon, Satan "is" Apollyon. That word means destruction, and that is the epitome of what he does here. He is the king or ruler of this spiritual army from the abyss, making up of human messenger that comes with Satan's spirit and what he brings is death to these people. This Hebrew word [abaddon] only occurs here in the New Testament and 5 times in the Old Testament (Job 26:6; 28:22; 31:12; Psalm 88:11; Prov 15:11 ) and always relates to death, which this messenger from hell/hades brings to the unfaithful congregation (those in it who are not truly sealed).
It's the evil spirit Satan's "whole persona" and reason for existence. He is the absolute quintessential adversary of the church, not the world which is his domain. The world is his own, it's already his kingdom that he's not fighting against because a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. The word of God encourages us to make our calling and election sure not because Satan has no interest in attacking the church, but because that is his whole character, his entire modus operandi. Satan isn't loosed to attack his own kingdom, but as judgment upon the unfaithful church, just as in the old Testament God loosed wicked empires upon Israel as judgment for their rebellions. The fact is, the judgment and apostasy comes specifically because Satan is loosed by God upon a rebellious church that will not receive His truth in the love wherewith it was given. Apostasy is a falling away of the church, not a falling away of the world. The world is already fallen.

2nd Thessalonians 2:9-11

• "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
• And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
• And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
• That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

The false Christs and false prophets that come to deceive are attacking the church, and who do they deceive there? Under rule of the Apollyon, the great destroyer Satan, they bring the rebellious church to desolation by deceiving those men within it that do not have the seal of God in their foreheads.

Revelation 7:2-3

• "And I saw another messenger ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four messengers, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
• Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

That's the whole reason Satan was bound in the bottomless pit, so that He could not go forth deceiving the nations until after the 144,000 of Israel (symbolically all Elect) were all sealed (secured) with the Spirit of promise. But once the church has done its job, their testimony finished, then he is loosed as locusts upon the grass. The point being NOT until God has sealed/saved everyone that He intends to save.

For example, those who have not made their calling and election sure (2nd Peter 1:10). God brings this spiritual judgment of delusion upon His Temple because these are those who would not receive the love of truth (2nd Thessalonians 2:12), instead getting their pleasure from unrighteousness. The destroyer comes up against the camp of the saints, not his own camp and his own people and his own kingdom.

 

[Marty fox]

The OD is about the years before the one and only second coming which happens at the end of this age. It has nothing to do with AD70.

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

If the generation he spoke of was the people he spoke to then they would literally have to see "all these things be fulfilled" so all we have to do is go back and see of all those things happened in that generation:


Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matthew 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Did the events in these 3 verses happen in that past generation?

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Did the return of Christ happen in "power and great glory"? Did all the tribes of the earth mourn at this momentous event??


Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Did this happen to the elect in AD 70?

Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Matthew 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


Utterly impossible that all these things were fulfilled in the generation that saw AD 70.



It isn't mentioned a single time in Rev. How does that equal it being a big part?

We have gone over this at least a dozen times over the years you know farewell my answer to these questions

 

[Marty fox]

I disagree. I don't think Peter referenced the judgment on Jerusalem anywhere in Acts 2 when he quoted Joel 2:28-32.


I don't know what you're talking about. Can you try to be more specific?


I don't believe Revelation was even written before 70 AD for one thing, but it's clear to me that the book is all about Jesus Christ and His church as well as the enemies of Christ and His church and has nothing to do with what happened in 70 AD.


Where do you believe that the second coming is referenced in Revelation?


I disagree. I don't believe it has anything to do with earthly Jerusalem at all.

All three books have the signs of judgement in the heavens, sun and moon

When you realize that Babylon the great is Jerusalem it all comes together

Jesus second coming happens right before the end of the world in revelation chapter 20 as when judgment comes on satans people and the gre white throne judgement as we also read about in the New testament

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus second coming happens right before the end of the world in revelation chapter 20

The second coming is not found in Rev 20 because it happens before those events.

 

[Verily]

Now what about the word, "angels?"

If we read the actual divinely inspired Hebrew and Greek words [mal'ak] and [aggelos], and not the assumptions, hypotheses, and presumptions of men, we will find "God's Definition" of both those words. And it is no surprise, that both words mean messenger and not angel. ...BOTH! So then, we have our answer "if" we will receive it. If not, clearly we can believe anything that we want. We can believe a [mal'ak] is a race car, or a [aggelos] is a lost farmer. But if we understand that the Scriptures interpret themselves (Genesis 40:8) and are the supreme authority over Christian faith and practice, it's a messenger.

James 2:25

• "Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?"

That's the "exact" same word that you and others call "angels", but is actually translated "as it should be," as it was inspired written. God never inspired the word "angels" in either the Old Testament or the New. The word God inspired was messenger, in Hebrew [mal'ak] and in Greek [aggelos]. If that's not true, then I'm clearly a false prophet changing God's words that "HE" inspired.

I see what you mean between these for example

Genesis 28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels/mal'ak/messengers of God ascending and descending on it.

John 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels/aggelos/messengers of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

Which is typical of words being compared between both places

On the one hand John and Jesus were both "sent ones".

Jesus is understood to be the messenger/mal'ak of the covenent correct?

Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger /mal'ak, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger mal'ak of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Since the words are synonymous between them, how then does the following work when we equate mal'ak (as messenger) which Jesus was with aggelos (the same messenger) in this context

Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels/aggelos/messengers; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

So then, Jesus is a messenger which took not on him the nature of messengers is what its supposed to be saying here?

The messenger/mal'ak of the covenant was made lower than messengers/aggelos

The nature of them is brougt into this

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels/aggelos/messengers for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

And then ofcourse

Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels/aggelos/messengers, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

In the resurrection it says

Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels/aggelos/messengers of God in heaven.

So are as the messengers of God in heaven

Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels/aggelos/messengers; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

And so neither can they die any more being equal to the messengers

 

[KUWN]

I completely disagree with that. Demons are not physical, visible beings. They are spirit beings that we can't see.

What do you think John actually saw? Did he see a symbolic creature with the characteristics he describes in this passage? He saw something in his vision. And if he can't see a spirit creature, how was he able to see the actual demon (spirit being)?

Heb 13.2
Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.

In this verse, people actually saw these angels. How did they see angels since they too are spirit beings?

Satan took on the form of a snake in the Garden of Eden. Angels in the OT took on the form of men, such that those spirit beings were thought to be men (cf Sodom and Gomorrah).

The Witch of Endor is a woman who, according to the Hebrew Bible, was consulted by Saul to summon the spirit of the prophet Samuel.

John 20:12
"And she saw two angels in white, sitting where the body of Jesus had lain, one at the head and the other at the feet".


Luke 24
"And it came to pass, while they were perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in dazzling apparel".

Luke 2:13
12 This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.”
13 Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel, praising God and saying...

Luke 1.11, 12
11 Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense.
12 When Zechariah saw him, he was startled and was gripped with fear.

Remember Gabriel appeared to Mary and frightened her

To name a few...

Angels and demons are seen in the OT/NT more than occasionally. The bottom line is spirit beings have appeared to men as men.

 

[Verily]

I missed this, what am I missing here?

Spiritual Israelite said,

"I believe Abaddon/Apollyon is another name for Satan"

TribulationSigns said,

"Satan doesn't give command to Apollyon, Satan "is" Apollyon"

I would ask,

How is Spiritual Israelite somehow wrong there?

 

[Verily]

I hope you understand that Satan is NOT an angel or even created being as most thought (more on this some other time).

Why not start a thread on this, I for one would love to see how you can convince us that God did not create the devil, satan, who is the dragon, and that old serpent.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I missed this, what am I missing here?

Spiritual Israelite said,

"I believe Abaddon/Apollyon is another name for Satan"

TribulationSigns said,

"Satan doesn't give command to Apollyon, Satan "is" Apollyon"

I would ask,

How is Spiritual Israelite somehow wrong there?

Spiritual Israelite is correct.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Whew.
The speculation is off the charts.
Maybe they are what the Bible says they are?????

 

[rebuilder 454]

What a novel concept.
The locusts are what the Bible says they are.

 

[Verily]

Prov 30:27 Tells us locusts have no king

Exodus 10:14 And the locusts went up over all the land of Egypt, and rested in all the coasts of Egypt: very grievous were they; before them there were no such locusts as they, neither after them shall be such.

These locusts ate trees, herbs and such green things

Exodus 10:15 For they covered the face of the whole earth, so that the land was darkened; and they did eat every herb of the land, and all the fruit of the trees which the hail had left: and there remained not any green thing in the trees, or in the herbs of the field, through all the land of Egypt.

These locusts in Rev do have a king (Rev 9:11 in contrast to Prov 30:27) and these go after unsealed men only.

Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

These come out of the smoke of the bottomless pit

Rev 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

They are given power as the scorpions of the earth have power as Jesus mentions here

Luke 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Next verse tells us Jesus is speaking of spirits

Luke 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Why not start a thread on this, I for one would love to see how you can convince us that God did not create the devil, satan, who is the dragon, and that old serpent.

Later, Lord willing.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I am now attempting to understand the 5th trumpet in Revelation 9: 1- 12 - the first Woe.

Now this is complicated! Any thoughts on these fellows and don't forget to comment on what the 5 months means - it is repeated twice within these few verses. Thanks

I have read many books on end times and seen enormous opinions on what people think they mean.

Here is what I know,.

Whatever they are- they are special creatures that are imprisoned to be released for the time specified in REvelation. John describing them is metaphorical as his language telss us.

They will harm man for five months and have a demon named Abaddon (Appolyon)

 

[CTK]

I have read many books on end times and seen enormous opinions on what people think they mean.

Here is what I know,.

Whatever they are- they are special creatures that are imprisoned to be released for the time specified in REvelation. John describing them is metaphorical as his language telss us.

They will harm man for five months and have a demon named Abaddon (Appolyon)

Thank you and I agree with you!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Agreed, however...

Revelation 9:11

• "And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon."

I hope you understand that Satan is NOT an angel or even created being as most thought (more on this some other time).

I completely disagree. He most certainly is a created being and is our number one spiritual enemy. I'm not going to bother reading any further because I can't take your view on this seriously.

 

[TribulationSigns]

He most certainly is a created being

Can you prove this with Scripture? Before the episode in the garden, there was no spirit of disobedience. That spirit was conceived within Adam and Eve, and they disobeyed. There was no sin in the flesh of Adam and Eve until in their spirit they disobeyed.

Eze 28:15

• Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

God was talking about Adam, not a fallen angel in heaven. That's man who was created perfect and in whom there was no spirit to disobey until that day it was conceived by lust and brought forth death. The Serpent was merely symbolic of that spirit, as it is throughout scripture. So I am curious if you understand exactly who Lucifer was in Scripture.

and is our number one spiritual enemy.

Of course. It is our own spirit of disobedience we all received from Adam and Eve before we were born again. The devil is everyone's adversary. This spirit was NOT a created being that turned evil in heaven as tradition teaches, but is the rebellious spirit within mankind that hold him in bondage to sin! This spirit has always been in the world (since the fall), was bound by Christ at the Cross for the sake of the Elects of the Nations, and will be unrestrained in the world as judgment in the last days. No scripture says the Devil is an intelligent created being. NO WHERE! Scripture is clear that the Devil is an evil spirit that started with Eve and Adam when the iniquity was found in them! Period!

I'm not going to bother reading any further because I can't take your view on this seriously.

Humm.. I have not yet fully explained where Satan comes from with Scripture here. If you choose to cling to the pride and beliefs you learned in Sunday School as a kid - - such as the idea of a good heavenly angel transformed into a talking snake to converse with Eve—rather than engaging in serious Bible study, that is entirely your prerogative!

 

[Verily]

God was talking about Adam, not a fallen angel in heaven. That's man who was created perfect and in whom there was no spirit to disobey until that day it was conceived by lust and brought forth death. The Serpent was merely symbolic of that spirit, as it is throughout scripture.

^This^ If we went with what you say here, it still shows the LORD God made him

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

And that was before they disobeyed

 

[CTK]

Can you prove this with Scripture? Before the episode in the garden, there was no spirit of disobedience. That spirit was conceived within Adam and Eve, and they disobeyed. There was no sin in the flesh of Adam and Eve until in their spirit they disobeyed.

Eze 28:15

• Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

God was talking about Adam, not a fallen angel in heaven. That's man who was created perfect and in whom there was no spirit to disobey until that day it was conceived by lust and brought forth death. The Serpent was merely symbolic of that spirit, as it is throughout scripture. So I am curious if you understand exactly who Lucifer was in Scripture.



Of course. It is our own spirit of disobedience we all received from Adam and Eve before we were born again. The devil is everyone's adversary. This spirit was NOT a created being that turned evil in heaven as tradition teaches, but is the rebellious spirit within mankind that hold him in bondage to sin! This spirit has always been in the world (since the fall), was bound by Christ at the Cross for the sake of the Elects of the Nations, and will be unrestrained in the world as judgment in the last days. No scripture says the Devil is an intelligent created being. NO WHERE! Scripture is clear that the Devil is an evil spirit that started with Eve and Adam when the iniquity was found in them! Period!



Humm.. I have not yet fully explained where Satan comes from with Scripture here. If you choose to cling to the pride and beliefs you learned in Sunday School as a kid - - such as the idea of a good heavenly angel transformed into a talking snake to converse with Eve—rather than engaging in serious Bible study, that is entirely your prerogative!

Sorry to jump in but I was curious about your response. I have never heard that before - assuming I am understanding it correctly. Please consider the following that Satan is a created being comes from an understanding of Genesis 1:1 and Colossians 1:16:

Genesis 1:1 states:
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

This verse establishes that God is the Creator of everything in existence, including the heavenly realms and all spiritual beings.


Colossians 1:16 adds more clarity:
“For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.”

This highlights that everything in the visible and invisible realms—including spiritual beings like angels—was created by God. Satan, originally an angelic being would therefore also be a created being.


Genesis 3 - While Genesis does not explicitly state that Satan was created, his appearance in the Garden of Eden as the serpent suggests his prior existence as part of God’s created order. Satan acts as the tempter, deceiving Eve into eating the forbidden fruit.
Genesis 3:1 says: “Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made.”

The phrase "which the Lord God had made" subtly implies that even this serpent—whether Satan working through it or a representation of Satan himself—was part of the created order.


Several other Old Testament passages suggest Satan’s origins as a created being:
Ezekiel 28:13-15 (often linked to Satan’s rebellion):
“You were in Eden, the garden of God; … You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you.”

This passage, while addressed to the king of Tyre, is interpreted by many as describing Satan’s creation as a perfect being before his fall.


Isaiah 14:12-15 (Lucifer’s pride and fall):
“How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! … For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God…’ Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, to the lowest depths of the Pit.”

This verse also highlights the fall of a once-glorious being, suggesting that Lucifer (later identified as Satan) was created as part of God’s angelic order but fell through pride.

 

[Verily]

Of course. It is our own spirit of disobedience we all received from Adam and Eve before we were born again. The devil is everyone's adversary. This spirit was NOT a created being that turned evil in heaven as tradition teaches, but is the rebellious spirit within mankind that hold him in bondage to sin!

How do you work this one out when it come the Holy Spirit driving Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted of Satan without making the spirit of Jesus Christ what you are implying?

I dont want to "say it"

This spirit has always been in the world (since the fall), was bound by Christ at the Cross for the sake of the Elects of the Nations, and will be unrestrained in the world as judgment in the last days. No scripture says the Devil is an intelligent created being. NO WHERE! Scripture is clear that the Devil is an evil spirit that started with Eve and Adam when the iniquity was found in them! Period!

If the serpent, the dragon, the devil and Satan are the same, it does speak of his subtilty which is of note in Genesis, whether the serpent is what it is or just represents something other than what it is. Its made and you have to have some sort of intelligence to converse, entice, or be subtle in your cunning craftiness.