Revelation 16:19 The great city was divided into 3 parts...

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Douggg

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Doug, if Babylon is a symbolic and/or spiritual entity representing "man's rebellion at the tower of Babel" and "the spiritual kingdom of Satan and his angels", then why would you take the earthquake that divides Babylon into 3 parts literally as if it was talking about a literal earthquake occurring on the earth? How can a literal earthquake occur in a symbolic or spiritual city?
The earthquake will be literal and global to take place at the end of the 7 years - when the inhabitants of the earth globally will be in great rebellion. Babylon the great, the namesake, is symbolic of great rebellion against God.

9 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
 

Jay Ross

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You have a new revelation earthquake really means "Turmoil" you must be a Greek scholar "Smiles"!

Strongs citation of "Earthquake" as seen in Revelation 16:18 below says Jay Ross is wrong

Strong’s Definitions
σεισμός seismós, sice-mos'; from G4579; a commotion, i.e. (of the air) a gale, (of the ground) an earthquake:—earthquake, tempest.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 14x
The KJV translates Strong's G4578 in the following manner: earthquake (13x), tempest (1x).

You are assuming that the G:4578 definition that Strong has given for Seismos is correct and you are basing your statement that I am wrong on that.

I would suggest that Matt 28:2 is describing an Angel coming down to the surface of the earth has caused an earthquake in the air as he moves from the heavens to the earth. I don't think so. Logic does not support that premise.

However, the G:4579 Strong definition is describing and earthquake.

You cannot have an earthquake in either air or water, full stop.
 

Douggg

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You are assuming that the G:4578 definition that Strong has given for Seismos is correct and you are basing your statement that I am wrong on that.

I would suggest that Matt 28:2 is describing an Angel coming down to the surface of the earth has caused an earthquake in the air as he moves from the heavens to the earth. I don't think so. Logic does not support that premise.

However, the G:4579 Strong definition is describing and earthquake.

You cannot have an earthquake in either air or water, full stop.
Jay, as a result of the great earthquake in Revelation 16:18-21, it says...

20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
 
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Jay Ross

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Jay, as a result of the great earthquake in Revelation 16:18-21, it says...

20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

Douggg, if what you have stated is true then the Hebrew root word G-4579 which is descriptive of an actual earthquake would have been found in Rev 16:17-21. Since G:4579 has not been found in this passage, the translation of the Greek words with the embedded Greek Root word G:4578 is describing the resulting turmoil in the people resulting from the described events. Babylon was remembered before God in 1926 to receive God's wrath once more. Jerusalem in 1948 was partitioned into three controlled areas between Brittian, Jordan and the UN. The religious faith in the people after WW2 faded away. During WW1 and WW2 people hid in "caves" below ground because of the bombardments going on above the ground and they cursed God because of the bombardments that were occurring above them.

Sadly, Douggg, you are unable to put the Bowl judgements into their correct chronological sequence and because of this your posts have become meaningless. Above I have quoted the historical evidence to support what I have claimed.
 

Douggg

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Babylon was remembered before God in 1926 to receive God's wrath once more. Jerusalem in 1948 was partitioned into three controlled areas between Brittian, Jordan and the UN.
Jay, in 1948, did the following happen... ?

20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
 

Jay Ross

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Jay, in 1948, did the following happen... ?

20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Douggg, your question requires fleshing out some more on your part before anyone can answer it for you.

Here are dates that I associate with the seventh bowl judgement: -

Revelation 16:17-21: - 17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is done!” (????) 18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was great turmoil, (WW1) such a mighty and great turmoil as had not occurred since men were on the earth. (WW2) 19 Now the great city was divided into three parts, (1948) and the cities of the nations fell. (WW1) And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. (1926) 20 Then every island fled away, (national allegiances have faltered since the establishment of the League of Nations and the UN) and the mountains (religions) were not found. 21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great. (most conflicts since WW1)​
Perhaps, if you fleshed out your question/claims a little more people might begin to understand your posts a little more.​
 

Davidpt

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For what it is worth, the Greek Root word G:4578 has been wrongly given the meaning of "earthquake(s)," but the reality is that we should understand that its actual meaning is "turmoil."

When we insert the word "turmoil(s)" into our English translations, for the Greek Root word embedded in the six words and found 14 times in the New Testament, then the meaning of "turmoil" makes more sense than the word "earthquake." In Matthew 28:2 how can an Angel coming down from Heaven to roll the stone away from the entrance of the tomb, cause an earthquake, however the Angel as it descended down from Heaven did cause great turmoil among the Guard at the Tomb when they saw the Angel descending.

If our premise of how G:4578 should be translated is flawed, then anything that we write about the Greek Hebrew Root word G:4578 will also be flawed and people will go looking of the shortest straw on which they can their personal rational upon.

Shalom

PS: - Attached is how the Strong Definition for G:4578 is presently worded. The Greek Root word G:4579 is used to actually describe earthquakes in the NT.

If the earthquake in question is not literal then I guess this means we shouldn't take the great hail in verse 21 literally either. After all, it makes no sense to take the great hail literally while not taking the great earthquake literally. As if there is no such thing as literal earthquakes and literal hail.
 

Douggg

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Here are dates that I associate with the seventh bowl judgement: -

Revelation 16:17-21: - 17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is done!” (????) 18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was great turmoil, (WW1) such a mighty and great turmoil as had not occurred since men were on the earth. (WW2) 19 Now the great city was divided into three parts, (1948) and the cities of the nations fell. (WW1) And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. (1926) 20 Then every island fled away, (national allegiances have faltered since the establishment of the League of Nations and the UN) and the mountains (religions) were not found. 21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great. (most conflicts since WW1)​
vial 1 - horrible sore on them who took the mark

vial 2 - ever creature in the sea died

vial 3 - freshwater's turned to blood

vial 4 - me scorched from the sun

vial 5 - darkness and pain in the beast's kingdom

vial 6 - Euphrates dried up, armies assemble at Armageddon

vial 7 - Great earthquake, massive hail plague

So you are claiming that vials 1-6 of God's wrath were poured out before 1926 and1948 ?

Jay, the great earthquake, massive hail plague of vial 7 will be at the very end of the 7 years at the end of the great tribulation. The 7 vials of God's wrath will take place during the great tribulation.


vials and trumpets.jpg
 

Davidpt

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The 7 vials of God's wrath will take place during the great tribulation.

Where do you get that ludicrous idea that the 7 vials of wrath occur during great tribulation? You need to look at Revelation 6 again, for example, and keep reading it until you figure out that the 5th seal is involving great tribulation and that the 6th seal is involving the wrath of God, and that the 6th seal follows the 5th seal, the same way 6 follows 5, mathematically speaking. There is no wrath of God taking place during the 5th seal, great tribulation. And the following for one proves it.

Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled

Obviously, to judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth involves the wrath of God. And that they are told this instead--- that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Obviously, as well, what I have underlined above is meaning great tribulation.

Next notice the following per the 6th seal.

Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


There is your wrath of God unless you want to deny that Jesus is God. And His wrath is not during the 5th seal, it is during the 6th seal. Great tribulation is not during the 6th seal, it is during the 5th seal. Both the 5th seal and 6th seal line up perfectly with Matthew 24:15-29, and that verse 29 and the 6th seal events recorded in Revelation 6 match and that Matthew 24:29 informs us that the wrath of the Lamb, the wrath of God recorded in Revelation 6, that it is after great tribulation not during it unless you want to propose Jesus lied to us in Matthew 24:29.

Why do you and others, including Preterists, want to make Jesus out to be a liar in Matthew 24:29 where He plainly tells us that the wrath of God, thus the day of the Lord, that it is immediately after great tribulation, not prior to it nor during it instead?

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


And what does the day of the Lord involve? It involves darkness, for one. Exactly what Matthew 24:29 will be involving immediately after great tribulation.
 

TribulationSigns

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In Revelation 16:19, the city was divided into 3 parts. Does anyone have any thoughts on this and its symbolism?


Rev 16:17-19
(17) And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
(18) And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
(19) And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.


This hearkens back to the Lord's judgment upon HIS CONGREGATION in three different ways to signify His will and purpose is accomplished in this. The number three is symbolic of the will and purpose of God. He destroys His unfaithful congregaiton (Babylon the Great) by plagues, by the Sword and by famine. In this judgment upon His people by 3 parts is illustrated this is brought upon them by God that His purpose is accomplished in this great judgment. Go ahead and look up in Ezekiel 5 for this example of judgment upon a people divided into three parts, destruction by plague, famine and sword. These three symbolic of the destruction of the unfaithful.

Ezekiel 5:1213
  • "A third part of thee shall die with the pestilence, and with famine shall they be consumed in the midst of thee: and a third part shall fall by the sword round about thee; and I will scatter a third part into all the winds, and I will draw out a sword after them.
  • Thus shall mine anger be accomplished, and I will cause my fury to rest upon them, and I will be comforted: and they shall know that I the LORD have spoken it in my zeal, when I have accomplished my fury in them."
Here is your three parts! The plagues which are likened to spiritual boils or diseases, the famine which is a lack of hearing the word of God, and the sword which is the word of God that is against them. Thus shall that once great city be divided into three parts and fall hearkening back to (or in remembrance of) Babylon before God (Ezra 5:12), to give to her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

Revelation 16:21
  • "And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great."
Spiritual delusion or insanity because they would not receive God's truth in love. This is the plague God has brought upon them because of their hard hearts.

Therefore, Revelation 16 vials are all about the judgment of God's unfaithful church. Not Pope, not EU, Not America, and not national Israel.

Selah!
 

TribulationSigns

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vial 1 - horrible sore on them who took the mark

The problem is that you falsely speculated that the plagues are supposed to be poured out upon all the world. Wrong. The vial judgment is reserved for HIS House, the New Testament congregation of God all over the world for her unfaithfulness. The plagues are for people of this great city that has spiritually become Egypt, which is the CHURCH! Not the world. They are the ones plagued of God, and they are the ones who AT THIS TIME had received the mark of the beast signifying they were brought under Satan's rule. For example, the rest of the world is ALREADY under Satan 's control, but those of this corporate church within the protected great city of God are the ones deceived now and who are now being brought into Satan's prison house, like the rest of the world! Selah! This is WHERE the Man of Sin ruled, not in physical city Jersualem, but CHURCH, where men had rec eived the mark of the beast dwelled, and who worshipped him THERE as if he was God. Get it?! We have to remember, the sores/plagues signify something. Something which they did NOT have previously, but which God put upon them for some reason AT THAT TIME. Not upon the whole world, but upon those symbolized by this particular language!

The sore signifies spiritual sickness upon those who do not love the Truth.
vial 2 - ever creature in the sea died

Physical fishes die in the sea? LOL! No, Listen...
Isaiah 57:20
  • "But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt."
The sea becoming blood again signifies another plague upon the wicked of the Church, which was to fishers of men, but which has spiritually become Egypt. in other words, the turning of the sea (wicked) to blood hearkens us back to God's judgments upon Egypt for holding God's people prisoner. these were supposed to preach the gospel, but instead they turned against the faithful, became as enemies raging in these troubled times like the sea. Not unlike our lord explains in Jude of the unrighteous in His house.

Jude 1:11
  • "Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core."
  • These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
  • Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever."
These are the apostasized, and these are those plagued. Selah!

vial 3 - freshwater's turned to blood

Freshwater? Please. The fountains of waters "represent" the Church. The representation of the gospel of Christ from Spiritual Jersualem. This can be seen in such passages as:
Revelation 7:17
  • "For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."
Christ is the fountain of waters, and upon earth, the Church is that representation.

Revelation 21:6

  • "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely."
When we read that the Plagues are poured out and the fountains of water became blood, this is again symbolizing the house of God, the representation of the fountains of water on earth, is plagued. In other words, the living waters once there is GONE, and replaced by God's plagues like in Exdous' Egypt where they are given blood to drink instead. For they are worthy. Selah! Upon those of Egypt who held God's people in captivity.


vial 4 - me scorched from the sun

This must be your pet verse. :-)

The sun again represents the church, the earthly representative of the light of the world, which is Christ. Speaking to the church:
Matthew 5:14
  • "Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid."
Ephesians 5:8
  • "For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:"
The Church represents the light of the world, the Sun, which signifies Christ! thus plagues poured out upon the sun are once again representing the Church.

vial 5 - darkness and pain in the beast's kingdom

The seat of the beast is his throne. The Greek word translated seat is [thronos], also translated throne. It is the Holy Temple of God, church, wherein now the Beast now sits (at this time), and reigns and is worshiped by men as God. This is the abomination of Desolation!

2nd Thessalonians 2:4

  • "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."
This symbolizes that the kingdom in which Christ once reigned king, and which was once light, is now full of darkness and has the beast seated on the throne as ruler. Selah!

vial 6 - Euphrates dried up, armies assemble at Armageddon

The Great river Euphrates signifies the border line of New Testament Israel that separates God's people from the people of the world. It being dried up signifies that it no longer exists as a border guard.

Genesis 15:18
  • "In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:"
Here, the great river Euphrates is signified as a border marker for Israel.

Deuteronomy 11:24-29
  • "Every place whereon the soles of your feet shall tread shall be yours: from the wilderness and Lebanon, from the river, the river Euphrates, even unto the uttermost sea shall your coast be.
  • There shall no man be able to stand before you: for the LORD your God shall lay the fear of you and the dread of you upon all the land that ye shall tread upon, as he hath said unto you.
  • Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
  • A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day:
  • And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.
  • And it shall come to pass, when the LORD thy God hath brought thee in unto the land whither thou goest to possess it, that thou shalt put the blessing upon mount Gerizim, and the curse upon mount Ebal."

If they obeyed the commandments of God, and if not, they would be judged. If the church no longer follow Christ, the drying up of the Euphrates signifies a way for armies to come across to destroy them! This is how the False prophets and Christs came into the church and destroy from WITHIN where they forced everyone who have not yet sealed of God to receive the Mark. Selah!
vial 7 - Great earthquake, massive hail plague

The air in scripture often signifies the spirit. The spirits are the wind or air, and when the plagues are poured out on the air, the spirits bring the house down. It is done signifies God has surely caused this all to be. It is an edict which cannot be broken. As already decreed in heaven, it is done on earth. it will be brought to pass.
 

Jay Ross

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If the earthquake in question is not literal then I guess this means we shouldn't take the great hail in verse 21 literally either. After all, it makes no sense to take the great hail literally while not taking the great earthquake literally. As if there is no such thing as literal earthquakes and literal hail.

I am only suggesting that G:4578 has been translated wrongly and that my suggested wording should be taken literally. Turmoil fits much better than earthquake.
 

Jay Ross

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vial 1 - horrible sore on them who took the mark

vial 2 - ever creature in the sea died

vial 3 - freshwater's turned to blood

vial 4 - me scorched from the sun

vial 5 - darkness and pain in the beast's kingdom

vial 6 - Euphrates dried up, armies assemble at Armageddon

vial 7 - Great earthquake, massive hail plague

So you are claiming that vials 1-6 of God's wrath were poured out before 1926 and1948 ?

No douggg, that is your present understanding. What you have presented in your chronological order of these events is in the order that John saw them, but since he was walking from the distant future towards the present time, the reverse order is the way the vials, as you call them, will play out. The logic of how the vails have been presented confirms that they are all in the reverse order of when they will happen.

Since taking the mark of the beast in vail 1 happens just before the return of Christ, you re suggesting that the rest of the vails will happen after the start of Eternity.

Go figure that out.
 

Douggg

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No douggg, that is your present understanding. What you have presented in your chronological order of these events is in the order that John saw them, but since he was walking from the distant future towards the present time, the reverse order is the way the vials, as you call them, will play out. The logic of how the vails have been presented confirms that they are all in the reverse order of when they will happen.
John was not "walking" anywhere. He wrote down what he saw and heard - in the order that he saw and heard.

There is not reverse order chronologically. The vials are poured out in order, 1-7, chronologically.

Since taking the mark of the beast in vail 1 happens just before the return of Christ, you re suggesting that the rest of the vails will happen after the start of Eternity.
No, taking the mark of the beast begins in Revelation 13:16-18 near the middle of the 7 years. The plagues associated with the 7 vials take place during the 42 months of the beast-king's rule.
 

Douggg

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Where do you get that ludicrous idea that the 7 vials of wrath occur during great tribulation?
What begins the great tribulation? And how long does it lasts ? What ends the great tribulation ?

It is all on my chart, lower left corner. The plagues of the seven vials will take place during the 1335 days.



vials and trumpets1.jpg
 

Douggg

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There is your wrath of God unless you want to deny that Jesus is God. And His wrath is not during the 5th seal, it is during the 6th seal. Great tribulation is not during the 6th seal, it is during the 5th seal. Both the 5th seal and 6th seal line up perfectly with Matthew 24:15-29, and that verse 29 and the 6th seal events recorded in Revelation 6 match and that Matthew 24:29 informs us that the wrath of the Lamb, the wrath of God recorded in Revelation 6, that it is after great tribulation not during it unless you want to propose Jesus lied to us in Matthew 24:29.
The wrath of the Lamb on the evil men that will have persecuted and killed the saints will be slain the day of Jesus's return.

As noted on my chart "destroyed by the wrath of the Lamb".


counrt forward 1290 days paart 5.jpg
 

Jay Ross

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John was not "walking" anywhere. He wrote down what he saw and heard - in the order that he saw and heard.

There is not reverse order chronologically. The vials are poured out in order, 1-7, chronologically.


No, taking the mark of the beast begins in Revelation 13:16-18 near the middle of the 7 years. The plagues associated with the 7 vials take place during the 42 months of the beast-king's rule.

Douggg, your perspective is full of holes that leak because of your private interpretations.
 

ewq1938

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I am only suggesting that G:4578 has been translated wrongly and that my suggested wording should be taken literally. Turmoil fits much better than earthquake.


Act 16:26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.

Same word seismos.
 

Jay Ross

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Act 16:26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.

Same word seismos.

Yes, you are right the same word Seismos is found in this passage, but because of the translation error the quoted passage should actually read in this manner,

Acts 16:25027: - 25 But at midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them. 26 Suddenly there was a great earthquake/great turmoil, so that/because the foundations of the prison were shaken; and immediately all the doors were opened, and everyone’s chains were loosed. 27 And the keeper of the prison, awaking from sleep and seeing the prison doors open, supposing the prisoners had fled, drew his sword and was about to kill himself. 28 But Paul called with a loud voice, saying, “Do yourself no harm, for we are all here.”​

The "earthquake/shaking" of the prison foundations is described in this coloured text.

The prison was in great turmoil because the prison guard believed that they would be killed because the prisoners had escaped and death was the penalty for the prison guard if any prisoner escaped.

Biblehub provides this interlinear: -

1735452457337.png

If you work your way through the interlinear and apply sound logic, the paraphrasing that I have provided of verse 26 makes a lot more sense.
 

Truth7t7

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Douggg, if what you have stated is true then the Hebrew root word G-4579 which is descriptive of an actual earthquake would have been found in Rev 16:17-21. Since G:4579 has not been found in this passage
Your claim is false G-4579 is found in Revelation 16:18KJV

Blueletterbible.org

Rev 16:18 - And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, G4578 such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, G4578 and so great