Revelation 11 and Revelation 12

[Douggg]

No, the first beast is solely a kingdom and it's only king is the second beast. The heads are not kings. They are mountains which is land rising above the waters.

One of the heads was mortally wounded, but healed. When is the last time you heard about a mountain dying and coming back to life.

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Yes he is the false prophet, a counterfeit of our Lord which was also a prophet who performed miracles etc.

The false prophet will call fire down from heaven. As the prophet Elijah did in his battle with the prophets of Baal. The Jews are expecting Elijah to come and be a part of the start up of the messianic age. They will mistake the false prophet as being Elijah, initially.

 

[Davy]

Davy, the second beast in Revelation 13:11 who works the miracles is the false prophet.

That's the popular notion, but the 'false prophet' is just a ROLE that Satan plays, just like the ROLE of the beast-king. This is why both of those ROLES are cast into the "lake of fire" at Jesus' future return per Rev.19:20. This should be easy to figure out, since no flesh born man is judged and sentenced to the "lake of fire" until after Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Rev.20.

 

[Davy]

Let me quote you in response: -



Davy, you have not provided any information that invalids what I had previously posted. Your understanding IMHO is flawed.

What I've provided FROM BIBLE SCRIPTURE on the matter is not 'my' word. Instead, it is The Word of God AS WRITTEN. Anyone can open up Revelation 20 and read it.

But what you have said about Rev.20 is your own... word, and it LEAVES the actual Rev.20 Scripture as written. THUS YOU HAVE REVEALED YOU HAVE COME HERE TO DISTORT THE WORD OF GOD, AND YOU ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED.

 

[Jay Ross]

But what you have said about Rev.20 is your own... word, and it LEAVES the actual Rev.20 Scripture as written. THUS YOU HAVE REVEALED YOU HAVE COME HERE TO DISTORT THE WORD OF GOD, AND YOU ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED.

What a claim on your part. That when I provide scripture to support my POV you claim that I have distorted scripture and inserted my own words and as such that I am not to be trusted.

Whereas you are asserting that you have not distorted scriptures that you use to support y our POV. Davy, you are so funny with your claims like when you posted this rebuttal: -

.

Revelation 12:7 forward is about Satan being cast out of heaven down to the earth with his angels, and is tied to the latter 3.5 years of the Dan.9:27 "one week" called the "great tribulation" by Jesus. And all those events are PRIOR to Rev.20. Rev.20:1-3 happens when Jesus returns.

And to say in 20 years that will happen is to try and do date setting for Christ's future return. No man knows the day or hour of Christ's future coming.

Your reference to Rev.20 about the time when Satan will establish himself as king over the nations is NOT about the future time after Jesus has returned. It is about the very 'end' of this present world before... Jesus returns.

Nor is the nation of Israel swept away (i.e., like some fake rapture) but the majority of them which still reject Jesus Christ will instead WORSHIP SATAN who is coming in place of Christ.

And your statement that the "thousand years" of Rev.20 is included in the Revelation 12:7-17 events is yet another one of your terrible fabrications away from the written Scripture.

Your false claims are just an assertion to boost your indulgence or desire to be the only expert on the End Times on this forum. There are also others that also assert the same claim of being an End Times expert.

Sadly Davy, your understanding of the End Times and how the scriptures fit together to provide a coherent picture is flawed. It is all about how your imagination is able to fit the scriptures into a coherent timeline that matches your private understanding.

Goodbye

 

[Douggg]

What a claim on your part. That when I provide scripture to support my POV you claim that I have distorted scripture and inserted my own words and as such that I am not to be trusted.

Whereas you are asserting that you have not distorted scriptures that you use to support y our POV. Davy, you are so funny with your claims like when you posted this rebuttal: -

.

Your false claims are just an assertion to boost your indulgence or desire to be the only expert on the End Times on this forum. There are also others that also assert the same claim of being an End Times expert.

Sadly Davy, your understanding of the End Times and how the scriptures fit together to provide a coherent picture is flawed. It is all about how your imagination is able to fit the scriptures into a coherent timeline that matches your private understanding.

Goodbye

@Jay Ross
@Davy

Each of you make some time line charts, so others can look at your view of the end times events in a comprehensive manner.

 

[Jay Ross]

Each of you make some time line charts, so others can look at your view of the end times events in a comprehensive manner.

I would if I knew how to show any graphic that I generate. Under the previous owner the process of doing so was much easier and simpler to do. Generation of the graphics is the easy bit, inserting the graphic into a post is much harder now.

However, creating a graphic that is meaningful is also difficult for many as well.

 

[ewq1938]

One of the heads was mortally wounded, but healed. When is the last time you heard about a mountain dying and coming back to life.

Same time there were 7 headed beasts and dragons? A wound to an area of land from a sword means an area of the world was at war and the area healed like Japan healed from the nuclear bombs.

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Do you believe Paul's Man of Sin is the antichrist?

 

[ewq1938]

I would if I knew how to show any graphic that I generate. Under the previous owner the process of doing so was much easier and simpler to do. Generation of the graphics is the easy bit, inserting the graphic into a post is much harder now.

However, creating a graphic that is meaningful is also difficult for many as well.

Inserting a pic you already have into a post is very easy. I'll show you how if you want.

 

[Stumpmaster]

A wound to an area of land from a sword means an area of the world was at war and the area healed like Japan healed from the nuclear bombs.

Democracy is a sword against Autocracy

 

[ewq1938]

Democracy is a sword against Autocracy

Sword is symbolic of war.

 

[Douggg]

Do you believe Paul's Man of Sin is the antichrist?

The Antichrist is revealed as the man of sin, and not the King of Israel, messiah, as the Jews will have initially thought at the beginning of the 7 years.

little horn > then as the prince who shall > then as the Antichrist > the as the revealed man of sin > then as the beast-king

 

[Douggg]

I would if I knew how to show any graphic that I generate. Under the previous owner the process of doing so was much easier and simpler to do. Generation of the graphics is the easy bit, inserting the graphic into a post is much harder now.

However, creating a graphic that is meaningful is also difficult for many as well.

Have one of your technology knowledgeable grandchildren come over. Open the forum on your computer, and ask them to show you how to insert a graphic image in making a post for this forum.

 

[Jay Ross]

Inserting a pic you already have into a post is very easy. I'll show you how if you want.

I am an older person now than back then and I need more SCANS now, than I did back then, and you are suggesting that I should interrupt those scans to learn something that is relevant only if I want to be an exhibitionist of newfound skills, which I don't.

Goodbye

 

[Jay Ross]

Have one of your technology knowledgeable grandchildren come over. Open the forum on your computer, and ask them to show you how to insert a graphic image in making a post for this forum.

They are not interested in an old FART arguing about their imagination on what they believe might be unfolding in the very near future even though the End Times, and the prisoners are allowed to rise up out of the pit, when the Bottomless pit is unlocked after their 1,000 years of imprisonment.

Goodbye

PS: - FART is a shortened way of saying, Frequently Away Riding Triumphs or Frequently Arguing Ridiculous Tripe. I am sure that the smart kids on this block can come up with one that is applicable to religious altercations between old FART(s)

 

[Douggg]

They are not interested in an old FART arguing about their imagination on what they believe might be unfolding in the very near future even though the End Times, and the prisoners are allowed to rise up out of the pit, when the Bottomless pit is unlocked after their 1,000 years of imprisonment.

Goodbye

PS: - FART is a shortened way of saying, Frequently Away Riding Triumphs or Frequently Arguing Ridiculous Tripe. I am sure that the smart kids on this block can come up with one that is applicable to religious altercations between old FART(s)

Jay, click in your reply post to this one, where you want to insert an image.

Then go to the menu above and click on the insert image icon. Then drag the image from your picture files that you want to insert into the "Drop Image" box. It is that easy.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Sword is symbolic of war.

Yeah, democracy wars against autocracy, always.

 

[Timtofly]

Where did Jesus say that everyone in the world should flee? Nowhere. He was only talking about those in Judea needing to flee to the mountains in order to avoid the tribulation He talked about in Matthew 24:15-21 (Mark 13:14-19, Luke 21:20-24). Clearly, He was not referring to global tribulation when making that statement, so there is no basis for seeing the tribulation He spoke about in those verses as global tribulation.

When all the works on earth are totally burned up by fire, like all were destroyed by water in Noah's day, you will have no trouble seeing great tribulation world wide. Do you think the Flood just killed all the creatures in one river valley? Why did they just not flee to another mountain range and survive?

 

[Timtofly]

So, the second beast is not Satan, as was claimed, since the second beast is the false prophet and the scripture clearly differentiates between the dragon and the false prophet. The dragon represents Satan and the second beast/false prophet represents something else.

Because the first beast is still the 7 headed dragon from chapter 12 and the scarlet colored beast in chapter 17. The entire beast is the world empire system since Babylon and Nebuchadnezzar who had the dream of the image that contained the first 5 heads, or kingdoms.


The FP is the mouth of this beast system after the 7th Trumpet has sounded.

"And there was given unto him a mouth (the FP) speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months."

The beast of the sea is not one single person, nor kingdom. It is the whole historical world government since Daniel.

Satan is the beast from out of the earth, the pit, with the voice of the dragon, Satan's own voice. Satan is the one who kills the 2 Witnesses after the 42 months are over in the above verse. Satan will rule for 42 months as the 8th king and kingdom after Jesus is declared the 7th King of the 7th Kingdom in Revelation 11 when the 7th Trumpet sounds.

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

Jesus reign is eternal, but put on hold if Satan is allowed 42 months as the 8th kingdom.

"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

This is still Satan the beast out of the pit.

"And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."

"And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

Satan has all the power of the dragon, sea beast and scarlet colored beast, because he is part of the power these historical world empires relied on. Many claim Satan was already in control of the earth, but never as a king recognized by all humanity. That only happens those last 42 months between the 7th Trumpet and Armageddon. And only if God determines that in the midst of the week of the days of the 7th Trumpet. It is not guaranteed. Only a reality that John saw could happen, not that it has happened already.

Satan offered Jesus the world power while the 4th head was still in power, but it was not time. Jesus will be the 7th Kingdom declared by God, not something given by Satan. Satan will only have Revelation 13 if God allows it. Otherwise the world gets Revelation 14 and the winepress of God's wrath to clear and restore creation for the Day of the Lord.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Because the first beast is still the 7 headed dragon from chapter 12

False, false, and false. The Dragon is sealed in the Abyss while the First Beast and the False Prophet are in the Lake of Fire.

 

[Timtofly]

False, false, and false. The Dragon is sealed in the Abyss while the First Beast and the False Prophet are in the Lake of Fire.

That would be during the Day of the Lord. John was talking about where they originated in Revelation 12, 13, and 17.

Are you saying humans are born in the LOF?