Response to "God's Eternal Life Insurance" topic

[St. SteVen]

I was disappointed to find this topic closed upon arrival. (I was alerted by being mentioned)

God's Eternal Life Insurance

God's Insurance Policy - - Designed for the Human Race Eternal Life Insurance - - BENEFITS – DIVIDENDS - - Premiums Prepaid “Which HE Purchased With HIS Own BLOOD!” (Acts 20:28) Saved From Wrath By Grace "For By Grace are ye saved through faith; and that Not of yourselves: It Is The Gift of...

www.christianityboard.com

A topic started by our dear friend @GRACE ambassador

Some good points were made in the OP. (opening post)
But I had some questions and comments about the conclusions.

And frankly, I anticipated a discussion about OSAS (sorry, derogatory term), or eternal security, the ASSURANCE of salvation.

Many want to refute OSAS, but I ask, "Where does that leave you?" Living in fear and apprehension of "losing" your salvation? (yikes!)

Do we really have no assurances outside our personal performance, which will NEVER be perfect?
The other topic outlined this well. No need for me to elaborate on that.

Here's my stance:
We cannot lose, by an act of our own will, what we did not provide in the first place.
Even in the case of reprobation, it is God's choice. And to what end? Will God give up on us forever?

The Good Shepherd leaves the ninety-nine to go after the one and bring them back.
Will the same Lord that commanded us to love our enemies, not love his own?
As if he operates at a lower standard than he expects of us?

I haven't really addressed the issues I was having with the other topic. Let's see where this goes. Thanks.

 

[St. SteVen]

Seems to be the only way I can comment on the previous thread OP is to paste the opening post here.

Post below is the OP by @GRACE ambassador from the now locked topic God's Eternal Life Insurance
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

God's Insurance Policy - - Designed for the Human Race

Eternal Life Insurance - - BENEFITS – DIVIDENDS - - Premiums Prepaid

“Which HE Purchased With HIS Own BLOOD!” (Acts 20:28)

Saved From Wrath By Grace "For By Grace are ye saved through faith;
and that Not of yourselves: It Is The Gift of God!" (Ephesians 2:8)

Eternal Life "For we know that if our earthly house of this
tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, a
house not made with hands, ETERNAL in the heavens!"
(2 Corinthians 5:1)

"For the wages of sin is death, but The Gift Of God Is ETERNAL
Life Through JESUS CHRIST our LORD!" (Romans 6:23)

Peace Of Mind "Therefore being justified by faith, we have
PEACE With God through our LORD JESUS CHRIST!" (Romans 5:1)

"And The PEACE Of God, Which Passes All Understanding Shall Keep
your hearts and minds Through CHRIST JESUS!" (Philippians 4:7)

New Body “Who Shall Change our vile body, that it May Be
Fashioned Like Unto HIS Glorious Body!” (Philippians 3:21)

No Age Limit - - No Physical Required Fountain of Youth - - Immortality

"But Is Now Made Manifest By The Appearing Of our Saviour
JESUS CHRIST, Who Hath Abolished death, And Hath Brought Life
And Immortality To Light Through The Gospel!" (2 Timothy 1:10)

"For this corruptible must put on incorruption and this
mortal must put on immortality!" (1 Corinthians 15:53)

Children of God "The Spirit Himself Bears Witness With
our spirit, That we are the children of God!" (Romans 8:16)

Heirs ----- Joint-Heirs "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God,
And joint-heirs With CHRIST, if so be that we suffer with Him,
that we may be also Glorified Together!" (Romans 8:17)

Put On Display "And Hath raised us up together, and made us sit
together in heavenly places in CHRIST JESUS: that in The Ages To
Come HE Might Show The Exceeding Riches Of HIS Grace In HIS
Kindness Toward us Through CHRIST JESUS!" (Ephesians 2:6-7)

Judging Angels "Know ye not that we shall judge angels? How
much more the things that pertain to this life?!" (1 Corinthians 6:3)

Contains A Rapture Clause "For The LORD HIMSELF Shall Descend from
heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with The
Trump Of God, and the dead in CHRIST shall rise first: then we which
are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the
clouds to meet The LORD in the air: and so shall we ever be with
The LORD! Wherefore comfort one another With These Words!!"
Amen!!! (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18)

Faithful Rewarded

Note: God Is An Excellent Policy Maker And BookKeeper;
He Will Settle All Accounts, And HE Will Pay Big Dividends.

"If any man's work abide which he hath built Thereupon,
he shall receive a reward!" (1 Corinthians 3:14)

Non-Cancelable ”In Whom also, after that ye believed, ye Were
Sealed With That Holy Spirit of Promise!” (Ephesians 1:13b)

”Who Also Hath Sealed us, And Given The Earnest
Of The Spirit in our hearts!” (2 Corinthians 1:22)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This Wonderful Insurance Policy of God's Amazing Grace Is
UnderWritten By The Trinity ------- The Unity of One GodHead,
Eternally Existing In Three Persons: Father, SON, and Holy Spirit!

To take advantage of The Benefits And Dividends of This Policy, simply
believe God's Record Concerning His SON: The LORD JESUS CHRIST,
And place your Complete faith in HIM, HIS Precious BLOOD, And HIS
Resurrection, for The Forgiveness of All sin! (1 Corinthians 15:3-4)

Having received God's Gift Of Eternal Life, And All The Rest Of His Benefits, it would be Very
Appropriate to Thank HIM for Such Amazing "UNmerited FAVOR," As HIS Eternal GRACE!!

 

[St. SteVen]

Saved From Wrath By Grace "For By Grace are ye saved through faith;
and that Not of yourselves: It Is The Gift of God!" (Ephesians 2:8)

The idea of being "Saved From Wrath" has biblical support, but I question it.
Something wrong with this based on the implications.

The scripture posted above does not support wrath. This one does.

Romans 5:9 NIV
Since we have now been justified by his blood,
how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What Ephesians 2:8 does tell us is that salvation is "the gift of God".

The standard dogma tells us that NOT receiving the gift is met with wrath.
Honestly, how can we call that a free gift? In human terms, it is clearly extortion.
Recieve the free gift, or else you will be incinerated. That's not a choice, it's a threat.

 

[St. SteVen]

Faithful Rewarded

Note: God Is An Excellent Policy Maker And BookKeeper;
He Will Settle All Accounts, And HE Will Pay Big Dividends.

"If any man's work abide which he hath built Thereupon,
he shall receive a reward!" (1 Corinthians 3:14)

The standard dogma limits this judgment to the Elect.
But we know that ALL humankind will be judged.
Note who the judgment is for in this scripture.
And when it takes place.

Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Non-Cancelable ”In Whom also, after that ye believed, ye Were
Sealed With That Holy Spirit of Promise!” (Ephesians 1:13b)

”Who Also Hath Sealed us, And Given The Earnest
Of The Spirit in our hearts!” (2 Corinthians 1:22)

This relates to the assurance of salvation aspect that WE have as believers.
BUT I do not believe that salvation is limited to current believers.

 

[St. SteVen]

To take advantage of The Benefits And Dividends of This Policy, simply
believe God's Record Concerning His SON: The LORD JESUS CHRIST,
And place your Complete faith in HIM, HIS Precious BLOOD, And HIS
Resurrection, for The Forgiveness of All sin! (1 Corinthians 15:3-4)

This is the evangelical bait-and-switch.
Do we lead someone to Christ and then cut them loose? Nope.
They need to be discipled, right?

So we pile on the expectations.
- Daily Bible reading and prayer.
- Regular church attendance and tithing.
- Sharing the Gospel.
- Discipling others.
- Good works.

So much for a free gift.
It's a free gift... it will cost you everything.

 

[St. SteVen]

This is the evangelical bait-and-switch.
Do we lead someone to Christ and then cut them loose? Nope.
They need to be discipled, right?

So we pile on the expectations.
- Daily Bible reading and prayer.
- Regular church attendance and tithing.
- Sharing the Gospel.
- Discipling others.
- Good works.

So much for a free gift.
It's a free gift... it will cost you everything.

To anyone who may be insulted by this post, consider this...
Jesus said to count the cost, to take up the cross daily and follow.

When we lead with the "free gift" of eternal life, are we being completely honest?
"Here's your free gift; goodbye; see you in heaven."

Or if someone isn't interested in our "free gift",
we warn them that eternal hell fire awaits those who refuse the "free gift".

What sort of "free gift" is that? (extortion)

 

[Rapture Bound]

To anyone who may be insulted by this post, consider this...
Jesus said to count the cost, to take up the cross daily and follow.

When we lead with the "free gift" of eternal life, are we being completely honest?
"Here's your free gift; goodbye; see you in heaven."

Or if someone isn't interested in our "free gift",
we warn them that eternal hell fire awaits those who refuse the "free gift".

What sort of "free gift" is that? (extortion)

I'm not insulted by your post in the slightest my friend, you bring up a good point.
You stated , "When we lead with the "free gift" of eternal life, are we being completely honest?
"Here's your free gift; goodbye; see you in heaven."

Not exactly, but pretty close in my opinion, that is, if we present the correct version of the gospel message, the one that can actually save them, the one that proclaims that salvation comes by God's grace through faith ... and apart from works... and they actually place their faith in Christ's atoning work alone. In other words, is if we don't pile on works as the means for our acceptance before God as you listed :

"So we pile on the expectations.
- Daily Bible reading and prayer.
- Regular church attendance and tithing.
- Sharing the Gospel.
- Discipling others.
- Good works.

Now, if those that we believe have actually experienced salvation, then our expectation is that those people will [to one degree or another] show signs of their new life in Christ, by the transformative work that the Holy Spirit assures us that He perform in them. We shouldn't have to "beg them" to do any of those things on the above list; those who have actually been regenerated will, as a result of becoming a new creation in Christ, desire to do those things [although I would change the word "tithing" to "giving as we our led" and "regular church attendance" to "fellowshipping with other followers of Christ"].

The major problem that we're confronted with runs like this ....many professing Christians are actually trusting in the performing of those items on the list either as the means TO salvation, rather than the by-products OF salvation. So yes, eternal life is a free gift that we can freely receive by faith, while the rejection of that free gift will result in the alternative ... the termination of a person's life = Matthew 10:28 - the perishing of body and soul ... eternally [as in "CI" ... and not "ECT"]. A person can simply say "no thank you" to God's offer and He will grant their desire ... they will perish [John 3:16]. Their is no "extortion" involved here ... simply freedom of choice.

 

[St. SteVen]

Thanks for your reply, much appreciated.
It was starting look as though I was talking to myself. - LOL

[as in "CI" ... and not "ECT"]

What does "CI" stand for? Not familiar. Thanks.

Their is no "extortion" involved here ... simply freedom of choice.

That's what we have been taught to believe.
But how does it look to the person on the street?

Man #1: Recieve the free gift of eternal life.
Man #2: No thanks.
Man #1: I said it was free.
Man #2: Are there strings attached?
Man #1: Of course.
Man #2: It isn't free then.
Man #1: Receive the free gift, or else!
Man #2: Say what?
Man #1: You will be incinerated.
Man #2: What sort of free gift is that?

Indeed.

 

[Rapture Bound]

Thanks for your reply, much appreciated.
It was starting look as though I was talking to myself. - LOL

What does "CI" stand for? Not familiar. Thanks.

That's what we have been taught to believe.
But how does it look to the person on the street?

Man #1: Recieve the free gift of eternal life.
Man #2: No thanks.
Man #1: I said it was free.
Man #2: Are there strings attached?
Man #1: Of course.
Man #2: It isn't free then.
Man #1: Receive the free gift, or else!
Man #2: Say what?
Man #1: You will be incinerated.
Man #2: What sort of free gift is that?

Indeed.

CI = Conditional Immortality

And just exactly how is eternal life not a free gift? Although every person was gifted with life at the moment of their conception [a gift they never deserved], why would you suppose that it's unjust for God not to grant eternal life to those who choose to reject His offer?

 

[St. SteVen]

Great questions, thanks.

CI = Conditional Immortality

Right. thanks. There is no "condition".

And just exactly how is eternal life not a free gift?

It is...
But that is probably not the way to present it to a prospect. IMHO

Although every person was gifted with life at the moment of their conception [a gift they never deserved],

Agree.

why would you suppose that it's unjust for God not to grant eternal life to those who choose to reject His offer?

I don't think that is how it works.
I think salvation came to ALL through the Atonement.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[Rapture Bound]

Great questions, thanks.

Right. thanks. There is no "condition".

It is...
But that is probably not the way to present it to a prospect. IMHO

Agree.

I don't think that is how it works.
I think salvation came to ALL through the Atonement.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

You said, "
Right. thanks. There is no "condition".

Right here is where we disagree. The condition is plainly stated in John 3:16. Only those who will place their faith in Christ's atoning work [as opposed to trusting in single work of their own] will not perish but receive eternal life.

 

[St. SteVen]

Right here is where we disagree. The condition is plainly stated in John 3:16. Only those who will place their faith in Christ's atoning work [as opposed to trusting in single work of their own] will not perish but receive eternal life.

Everyone will eventually.
But not as a condition for salvation.
The work of the Atonement was a complete work.

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead),
will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord.
No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved.
Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of
both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection)
Scriptural support below.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: Isaiah 45:23; Romans 14:11; Revelation 15:4

 

[Rapture Bound]

Philippians 2:10-11 - Yes indeed, every knee will certainly bow at the appointed time in the future ... but for most it will be too late. When those individuals who were not covered by the blood of The Sacrificial Lamb of God - Jesus Christ, are standing before Jesus, they will acknowledge that He is the Sovereign Lord over all creation - it will truly be an undeniable and shocking reality to them at that point in time [Hebrews 9:27]. Throughout the entire course of their lives, they refused to repent and believe on Him for the forgiveness of their sins ... the soul that sinneth is the same that shall die [Ezekiel 18:20] and perish everlastingly [John 3:16], that is, apart from placing all their trust and hope on the substitutional, righteousness-imputing atoning work of Christ ... this they failed to do ... truly an unforgiveable sin [John 3:19].

John 8:24, "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." ,,, the if here denotes 'CI' - Conditional Immortality.

So, although it is true that in this age no man is able to say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit, that is, except by the supernatural illuminating and enabling power of the Holy Spirit [John 6:44] ... no man at the time of Judgment Day will need the Holy Spirit to reveal the reality of the Sovereignty, Majesty, and Glory of the Lord Jesus Christ at that point in time ... they will be beholding Him face-to-face ... how incredibly horrifying it be for all those who rejected His free gift of eternal life!

 

[St. SteVen]

Philippians 2:10-11 - Yes indeed, every knee will certainly bow at the appointed time in the future ... but for most it will be too late.

The standard position on this is to see the bowing as a forceful action that forces submission at last.
But the definition tells a different story.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

When those individuals who were not covered by the blood of The Sacrificial Lamb of God - Jesus Christ, are standing before Jesus, they will acknowledge that He is the Sovereign Lord over all creation - it will truly be an undeniable and shocking reality to them at that point in time [Hebrews 9:27].

But EVERYONE is covered.
Did God cover SOME and not OTHERS?
Was the Atonement incomplete in some way?

Throughout the entire course of their lives, they refused to repent and believe on Him for the forgiveness of their sins ... the soul that sinneth is the same that shall die [Ezekiel 18:20] and perish everlastingly [John 3:16], that is, apart from placing all their trust and hope on the substitutional, righteousness-imputing atoning work of Christ ... this they failed to do ... truly an unforgiveable sin [John 3:19].

Refused to repent?
Countless billions have not so much as HEARD the name of Jesus.

So, although it is true that in this age no man is able to say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit, that is, except by the supernatural illuminating and enabling power of the Holy Spirit [John 6:44]

Will the Holy Spirit cease to exist in the next age?

... no man at the time of Judgment Day will need the Holy Spirit to reveal the reality of the Sovereignty, Majesty, and Glory of the Lord Jesus Christ at that point in time ... they will be beholding Him face-to-face

Hard to say what the role of the HS will be in that Day.
I imagine the restoration of all things will require some HS activity.

... how incredibly horrifying it be for all those who rejected His free gift of eternal life!

Only evangelicals believe that. (as I understand it)

 

[St. SteVen]

I was disappointed to find this topic closed upon arrival. (I was alerted by being mentioned)

God's Eternal Life Insurance

God's Insurance Policy - - Designed for the Human Race Eternal Life Insurance - - BENEFITS – DIVIDENDS - - Premiums Prepaid “Which HE Purchased With HIS Own BLOOD!” (Acts 20:28) Saved From Wrath By Grace "For By Grace are ye saved through faith; and that Not of yourselves: It Is The Gift of...

www.christianityboard.com

A topic started by our dear friend @GRACE ambassador

Some good points were made in the OP. (opening post)
But I had some questions and comments about the conclusions.

And frankly, I anticipated a discussion about OSAS (sorry, derogatory term), or eternal security, the ASSURANCE of salvation.

Many want to refute OSAS, but I ask, "Where does that leave you?" Living in fear and apprehension of "losing" your salvation? (yikes!)

Do we really have no assurances outside our personal performance, which will NEVER be perfect?
The other topic outlined this well. No need for me to elaborate on that.

Here's my stance:
We cannot lose, by an act of our own will, what we did not provide in the first place.
Even in the case of reprobation, it is God's choice. And to what end? Will God give up on us forever?

The Good Shepherd leaves the ninety-nine to go after the one and bring them back.
Will the same Lord that commanded us to love our enemies, not love his own?
As if he operates at a lower standard than he expects of us?

I haven't really addressed the issues I was having with the other topic. Let's see where this goes. Thanks.

]

 

[gordon7]

Adam was given life, and lost it. Why ?

Because of not fearing it is unwise to disregard what God has warned, and to trust in the lies of the deceiving devil instead.

Jesus Christ only has immortality.

Of course He cant teach the same doctrine as the devil, that we can not fear the death God told Adam ( and all in Adam) would receive, by disobeying Him.

Naturally Christ is not antichrist, the antichrist is antichrist.

Jesus teaches us not only not the devils word, but is always directly against it. ( humility versus exaltation)..



Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Genesis 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

 

[gordon7]

Who only has immortality ?

This mortal must PUT ON IMMORTALITY. ( then death is swallowed up in victory)

Put on THEREFORE, as the elect of God, bowels of mercies, kindness, HUMBLENESS OF MIND, MEEKNESS, LONG SUFFERING. ( put on Christ. Galatians 3:27.)..


1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

 

[St. SteVen]

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Does "all" mean all in this verse? (yes)

]

 

[gordon7]

Does "all" mean all in this verse? (yes)

]

2 Thessalonians 3:2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.