Reincarnation/Born again

[twinc]

as far as I know reincarnation is alluded to at least three on more times in Scriptures but is glossed over as if of no relevance - no relevance for Christians,no doubt,but of great relevance for non christians as the only way -for Christians this is the final death and judgement[Heb.9:27] - there is only resurrection for Christians imho - so lets search out where,why, and how many times reincarnation is alluded to in Scriptures - twinc

 

[Groundzero]

I take a negative stance.

You said three or more times. I see one reference, which mentions nothing about reincarnation, but rather that ALL will one day die, and when they do, they will be judged for what they have done.

In case we need the definition of reincarnation:

Reincarnation:


Noun

1. The rebirth of a soul in a new body.
2. A person or animal in whom a particular soul is believed to have been reborn.

 

[twinc]

in reality we really do nothing but sadly millions are busy doing nothing - twinc

 

[biggandyy]

Reincarnation is not found in scripture, is not supported in scripture, and has no place in Christian doctrine and dogma. I'll await the "proof" texts in rebuttal. I don't have to prove it doesn't exist, you have to prove it does.

 

[twinc]

 

Reincarnation is not found in scripture, is not supported in scripture, and has no place in Christian doctrine and dogma. I'll await the "proof" texts in rebuttal. I don't have to prove it doesn't exist, you have to prove it does.

Reincarnation is found in Scripture but ignored as if not there - it now has no place in Christian doctrine as stated and accepted as Christianity is the end of the road,so to speak - the first proof is quoted again and again but has been completely skewed and mangled totally out of context viz 'ye must be born again' does not apply to Christians but to non christians like Nicodemus - more proof texts to follow later,if this is disputed or refuted - twinc

 

[Groundzero]

Normally I'd walk away because this is so absurd, but I can't resist. haha.

So, the first proof is the born again to Nicodemus? What did Jesus say he had to be born of????
Water and the Spirit!!! Jesus is referring to baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost which was to come.


Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.



There is a physical birth, and then there's the birth of someone in God's kingdom. So much for reincarnation . . . . .


Now that I've disputed the text, can I have another proof? lol

 

[twinc]

 

Normally I'd walk away because this is so absurd, but I can't resist. haha.
 
So, the first proof is the born again to Nicodemus? What did Jesus say he had to be born of???? 
Water and the Spirit!!! Jesus is referring to baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost which was to come.
 
 
Joh 3:5  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 
Joh 3:6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 
 
 
 
There is a physical birth, and then there's the birth of someone in God's kingdom. So much for reincarnation . .  . . . 
 
 
Now that I've disputed the text, can I have another proof? lol

 

the only way is via Christ and Christianity - so the only way to be born of water and the spirit and to know Christ is through Christianity - btw another reference to reincarnation is in regard to the man born blind - twinc

 

[afaithfulone4u]

If one's body dies and goes back into the ground just as they did before Jesus' resurrection then what did he mean you will never die? And why is it that the 144,000 are all alive to this day? They have to be still alive, for they are sealed from the harm to come at the same time.
John 9:1-3
9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
KJV
Rom 9:11-13
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
KJV
John 11:26
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
KJV
John 21:22-23
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?
KJV
Matt 17:10-13
10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
KJV
Matt 16:28
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
KJV
Luke 9:27
27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
KJV

2 Thess 2:6
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
KJV

Does this verse jump out to anyone as if Paul is talking to YOU?

 

[Groundzero]

  

the only way is via Christ and Christianity - so the only way to be born of water and the spirit and to know Christ is through Christianity - btw another reference to reincarnation is in regard to the man born blind - twinc

And is there a verse for that??

 

[Selene]

as far as I know reincarnation is alluded to at least three on more times in Scriptures but is glossed over as if of no relevance - no relevance for Christians,no doubt,but of great relevance for non christians as the only way -for Christians this is the final death and judgement[Heb.9:27] - there is only resurrection for Christians imho - so lets search out where,why, and how many times reincarnation is alluded to in Scriptures - twinc

Reincarnation means that you can come back as an animal, not just as another human being. In reincarnation, the person physically dies and his/her soul returns in the form of another person or animal so that he/she lives again in another life. Therefore, the two (reincarnation and being born again) are not the same. To be born again means to be baptized (born of water and spirit). Water symbolized the washing away of the "old man"......the sinful man. The spirit is the one who sanctifies and makes the person into a new man.

 

[Axehead]

Born twice, water (natural birth) and spirit (spiritual birth), live forever with the Lord. Die twice, Crucified with Christ, and physical death, live forever with the Lord.

Born once water (natural birth), Die once (physical death).....eternity without God.

 

[veteran]

Born twice, water (natural birth) and spirit (spiritual birth), live forever with the Lord. Die twice, Crucified with Christ, and physical death, live forever with the Lord.

Born once water (natural birth), Die once (physical death).....eternity without God.

That's the actual correct meaning per our Lord in John 3...

John 3:6
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(KJV)

The "born again" phrase is actually 'born from above' in the Greek, not 'again'.

We must be born of water in woman's womb, AND our spirit born from above by The Holy Spirit to have eternal life through Christ Jesus. Men's doctrines later made the water idea there into a water baptism.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Reincarnation, and the supernatural birth about which Christ spoke at John 3:3-8,
are as unalike as stars and planets. The birth about which Jesus spoke produces
a non material, non physical spirit; while reincarnation produces a material,
physical body. Non physical, non material spirit ≠ physical, material body. No; the
one is solid, while the other has the consistency and texture of thin air.

In addition: reincarnation is a potentially never-ending cycle of birth, misery, and
death called samsara; while the supernatural birth about which Jesus spoke is a
one-time event. (John 4:13-14)

Buen Camino
/

 

[Selene]

That's the actual correct meaning per our Lord in John 3...

John 3:6
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(KJV)

The "born again" phrase is actually 'born from above' in the Greek, not 'again'.

We must be born of water in woman's womb, AND our spirit born from above by The Holy Spirit to have eternal life through Christ Jesus. Men's doctrines later made the water idea there into a water baptism.

Christ said that one must be born of "water AND spirit" together. That means water from above and spirit from above. Water baptism did not come from man. It came from God; therefore baptism by water means "from above."

Jesus asked the Pharisees:

Matthew 21:25 John's baptism—where did it come from? Was it from heaven, or of human origin?"............

The answer is found in the Gospel of John:

John 1:33 And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, 'The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.'

I don't know how anyone can interpret "to be born again of water and spirit" as one coming from the earth and the other coming from Heaven. Everyone knows that to be born twice in a woman's womb is not what Christ was speaking of because that is what Nicodemus asked.

John 3:4 "How can someone be born when they are old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother's womb to be born!"

You see. Nicodemus asked Jesus how can a person enter a mother's womb a SECOND TIME? So, how is it that you interpret being "being born of water" as meaning that a person must be born from a woman's womb? Those of you who say that they are born again......were you born from a woman's womb a second time? This was Jesus' answer to Nicodemus.

John 3:4-5 Jesus answered, "Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit [fn] gives birth to spirit.

Flesh gives birth to flesh....so clearly Christ was never speaking about "water coming from the earth or from a woman's womb" because to be born from a woman's womb is "flesh giving birth to flesh." He was speaking of "water" as a cleansing or purification and the spirit as sanctifiying. Since water baptism came from Heaven, Christ was speaking of a baptism of both water and spirit. Baptism of water in which sins are purified and baptism of spirit in which the spirit sanctifies to make the person holy. Both water baptism and the Holy Spirit came from God.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
†. John 3:5 . . Jesus answered: Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is
born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

There's no excuse for anybody misconstruing the nature of the water about
which Jesus spoke in that statement because he revealed it in the very next
chapter of John's gospel during his conversation with a non Christian,
promiscuous woman of Samaria.

The water isn't for bathing, nor is it for washing, nor is it for baptizing, nor is
it for irrigation; no, rather, it's specifically for drinking.

†. John 4:10-14 . . Jesus replied; If you only knew the gift God has for you
and who I am, you would ask me, and I would give you living water.

. . . But sir, you don't have a rope or a bucket; she said; and this is a very
deep well. Where would you get this living water? And besides, are you
greater than our ancestor Jacob who gave us this well? How can you offer
better water than he and his sons and his cattle enjoyed?

. . . Jesus replied; People soon become thirsty again after drinking this
water. But the water I give them takes away thirst altogether. It becomes a
perpetual spring within them, giving them eternal life.

†. Rev 21:6 . . And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the
beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of
the water of life freely.

†. Rev 22:17 . . And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that
heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let
him take the water of life freely.

The conclusion to draw from the above quotes is that the drinking water
offered by Christ is actually eternal life rather than natural H2O. So then;
people professing themselves to be born again, while not having
eternal life, have yet to undergo a birth as per John 3:3-8.

It gets worse. According to God's testimony as an expert witness in all
matters pertaining to His own son: people not having eternal life don't have
His son; viz: they are quite christless.

†. 1John 5:11-12 . . And this is what God has testified: He has given us
eternal life, and this life is in His son. So whoever has God's son has this life;
and whosoever does not have this life, does not have His son.

Christless Christians are in very grave danger of the wrath of God.

†. Rom 8:9 . . If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he doesn't
belong to Christ.

People who refuse to accept this information infer that the Bible's God is a
dishonest person of questionable integrity who can't be trusted to tell the
truth.

†. 1John 5:10-12 . . Anyone who does not believe God insinuates that He's a
liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about His son.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Angelina]

as far as I know reincarnation is alluded to at least three on more times in Scriptures but is glossed over as if of no relevance - no relevance for Christians,no doubt,but of great relevance for non christians as the only way -for Christians this is the final death and judgement[Heb.9:27] - there is only resurrection for Christians imho - so lets search out where,why, and how many times reincarnation is alluded to in Scriptures - twinc

Reincarnation is a term used by the secular world to mean that a persons soul is reborn into another bodily form after their own body expires. This ideology stems from the roots of another religion which is not Christian. Being born again in the Christian sense, is when one has their own body but their spirit needs to be revived by the Holy Spirit to be able to learn and understand the things of God which are spiritual. :)

Be Blessed!

 

[veteran]

Christ said that one must be born of "water AND spirit" together. That means water from above and spirit from above. Water baptism did not come from man. It came from God; therefore baptism by water means "from above."

Our Lord Jesus was speaking of flesh vs. spirit there in John 3. And that's also how Nicodemus understood about the flesh part, but not the part about being born from above of The Spirit.

It's important to learn to stay in the context of the Chapter as written, and not try to change it, which is what men's doctrines try to do.


John 3:1-12
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, "Rabbi, we know that Thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that Thou doest, except God be with him."
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"

The subject of being born of water is about the water of woman's womb, not ritual water baptism.


5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Christ revealed He was speaking of being born of the flesh and spirit, not ritual baptism and spirit. Other than that verse in bold it's simple to know that, because ritual baptism is linked with being born of The Spirit part; that's how some receive(d) The Holy Spirit baptism to their 'spirit'. So the contrast there is of being born in the flesh vs being born in The Spirit.


7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Christ goes further with an example to contrast being born in the flesh through water of woman's womb vs. being born of The Spirit. With one's flesh, it's easy to see it coming and going, but not with The Spirit which is like the wind.


9 Nicodemus answered and said unto Him, "How can these things be?"
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
(KJV)

In v.12 our Lord is talking about being born of The Spirit part still.

Per The New Testament, not everyone received baptism of The Holy Spirit when they went through ritual water baptism. Some were even baptized of The Spirit BEFORE they were water baptized, which is another way to know our Lord Jesus was not specifically talking about ritual water baptism here. This is also why the NT contrasts the water baptism of John vs. baptism by The Holy Spirit by hearing The Gospel of Jesus Christ and believing on Him, which was not in effect with John's baptism until Christ appeared, was crucified and resurrected.

 

[twinc]

 

Normally I'd walk away because this is so absurd, but I can't resist. haha.
 
So, the first proof is the born again to Nicodemus? What did Jesus say he had to be born of???? 
Water and the Spirit!!! Jesus is referring to baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost which was to come.
 
 
Joh 3:5  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 
Joh 3:6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 
 
 
 
There is a physical birth, and then there's the birth of someone in God's kingdom. So much for reincarnation . .  . . . 
 
 
Now that I've disputed the text, can I have another proof? lol

 

you have not disputed the text at all at all - all you have done is skewed it and mangled it - guess who is going to have the last laugh[lol without the o] - twinc

 

Reincarnation is not found in scripture, is not supported in scripture, and has no place in Christian doctrine and dogma. I'll await the "proof" texts in rebuttal. I don't have to prove it doesn't exist, you have to prove it does.

 

if it came to a bet even a scripture monkey would win - so would you accept it even if it is in Scriptures clear for all to see and understand - I think not - twinc

 

Our Lord Jesus was speaking of flesh vs. spirit there in John 3. And that's also how Nicodemus understood about the flesh part, but not the part about being born from above of The Spirit.
 
It's important to learn to stay in the context of the Chapter as written, and not try to change it, which is what men's doctrines try to do.
 

John 3:1-12
1    There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2    The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, "Rabbi, we know that Thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that Thou doest, except God be with him."
3    Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
4    Nicodemus saith unto him, "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"
 
The subject of being born of water is about the water of woman's womb, not ritual water baptism.
 

5    Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6    That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
 
Christ revealed He was speaking of being born of the flesh and spirit, not ritual baptism and spirit. Other than that verse in bold it's simple to know that, because ritual baptism is linked with being born of The Spirit part; that's how some receive(d) The Holy Spirit baptism to their 'spirit'. So the contrast there is of being born in the flesh vs being born in The Spirit.
 

7    Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8    The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
 
Christ goes further with an example to contrast being born in the flesh through water of woman's womb vs. being born of The Spirit. With one's flesh, it's easy to see it coming and going, but not with The Spirit which is like the wind.
 

9    Nicodemus answered and said unto Him, "How can these things be?"
10    Jesus answered and said unto him, "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11    Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12    If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
(KJV)
 
In v.12 our Lord is talking about being born of The Spirit part still.
 
Per The New Testament, not everyone received baptism of The Holy Spirit when they went through ritual water baptism. Some were even baptized of The Spirit BEFORE they were water baptized, which is another way to know our Lord Jesus was not specifically talking about ritual water baptism here. This is also why the NT contrasts the water baptism of John vs. baptism by The Holy Spirit by hearing The Gospel of Jesus Christ and believing on Him, which was not in effect with John's baptism until Christ appeared, was crucified and resurrected.

 

nothing at all wrong with the scripture quote as to what Jesus said left alone and not mangled and twisted and distorted and added to and subtracted from ad infinitum and ad absurdum - the only way to be born of water and the spirit is as a Christian and this is how all if not most Christians are born,there are of course exceptions to every rule but as a rule this is the case beyond doubt - twinc

 

Reincarnation is a term used by the secular world to mean that a persons soul is reborn into another bodily form after their own body expires. This ideology stems from the roots of another religion which is not Christian. Being born again in the Christian sense, is when one has their own body but their spirit needs to be revived by the Holy Spirit to be able to learn and understand the things of God which are spiritual.     :)
 
Be Blessed!

 

we are indeed already truly blessed being born as Christians - this is our final or first and last rebirth,so if we do not make it as Christians we are never going to make it - it is vital we get the full import and impact of this now and tell others about it and spread it about urgently or more urgently than it is being spread about or being resisted or misconstrued - twinc

 

Reincarnation is a term used by the secular world to mean that a persons soul is reborn into another bodily form after their own body expires. This ideology stems from the roots of another religion which is not Christian. Being born again in the Christian sense, is when one has their own body but their spirit needs to be revived by the Holy Spirit to be able to learn and understand the things of God which are spiritual.     :)
 
Be Blessed!

 

okay as long as you and I clearly understand that we are not our bodies - twinc