Reasons Jews Reject Jesus

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, and that people don't come to the light because their works are evil, and they don't want to be exposed. Though people use many excuses.

Much love!

Romans 1

 

[Gaffer]

we are talking about the jews who CRUCIFIED christ in unbelief.

Well, the Jews didn't crucify anyone. That was the Romans. But certainly the Jews supported it, but not in 'unbelief'. They KNEW for a scriptural fact that Jesus was not the Messiah, as he did not fulfill any Messianic prophesy. And it's years later that Paul pretends to hear Jesus and creates a new religion barely recognizable to Jews. And more years after that when the gospel authors invent 'prophesy' to fraudulently shoehorn Jesus into the new religion.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well, the Jews didn't crucify anyone. That was the Romans. But certainly the Jews supported it, but not in 'unbelief'. They KNEW for a scriptural fact that Jesus was not the Messiah, as he did not fulfill any Messianic prophesy. And it's years later that Paul pretends to hear Jesus and creates a new religion barely recognizable to Jews. And more years after that when the gospel authors invent 'prophesy' to fraudulently shoehorn Jesus into the new religion.

you need to study the OT prophets my friend.

Jesus fulfilled alot of prophecy.. He will return again to fulfill the rest of the prophecy concerning him..

And they jews did in unbelief when they chose barrabus

 

[VictoryinJesus]

But here in the rational world, the Jews that wrote the OT told us precisely how we would recognize the Messiah. And again, those attributes do not include a virgin birth, a crucifixion, a resurrection, or any divine attributes.

I have a question concerning “the Jews that wrote the OT told us previously how we would recognize the Messiah”?

You said the attributes do not include:
A virgin birth
A crucifixion
A resurrection
Divine attributes

No god is required for men of good conscience to be moral agents. The evidence is shown by the fact that we do not see Christians living any better or moral lives than any other group. In fact, quite the opposite. Our prisons are filled with Christians. Child molesters are expected in the clergy - and those in education are..... yep, mostly Christians. When Atheist represent some 10% of our population and yet only 0.10% of our prisoners - it's pretty compelling evidence of which group lives a more moral life.

Christianity suffers from the dilemma of not being able to claim a moral high ground. If you only do good either for the bribe of heaven or to avoid the threat of hell, it's laughable to claim you are more moral than that nasty Atheist or Humanist who does good simply because they believe it is the right way to live.

Yet in the above …unless I have misunderstood you have required these attitudes. Suggesting “I don’t see anything miraculous about Christians”

A virgin birth: a miraculous birth. You’ve suggested “no. I don’t see any miraculous birth in Christianity.” As a way to recognize Christians.
A crucifixion: a death to self. “No. I don’t see any death to ego seeking either in Christianity.” As a way to recognize Christians.
A resurrection: raised up passing from death into life. From darkness into Light. “No. I don’t see any life abundantly in Christianity but the same ol’ death more abundant in us all.” As a way to recognize Christians.
Divine attributes: “not see Christians living any better or moral lives than any other group. In fact, quite the opposite. Our prisons are filled with Christians. “Child molesters are expected in the clergy - and those in education are..... yep, mostly Christians.” …as a way to recognize Christ?

You said the OT Jews told how to recognize the Messiah…was Christ given an miraculous birth? Did Christ die to self? Did Christ walk in death or in Life? In darkness or in Light? Do you see any divine attributes in Christ?

If not then why do you say that you don’t see any of that in Christians today? What is the measurement: No birth from above? No crucifixion? No resurrection? …and following the first three absences…= “No divine attributes.”

No New birth;
No crucifixion
No resurrection = no divine attributes.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Reason #1 – The Messiah must be from the Tribe of Judah and a Descendant of King David AND King Solomon – Jesus did not qualify.

I've already discussed that the record of Christs' birth could be found in the temple, and if that record did not exist for the reasons I explained, they could have questioned His many siblings and mother, supposing Joseph had already expired. There is no record in Scripture that they even asked Christ. It was pure unbelief that they did not know or even care.

Reason #2 – Ingathering of the Jewish Exiles – Jesus did not do this.

Before this could be done, Israel had to accept their Messiah. Again, pure unbelief. The gathering will take place according to Scripture, but only after the whole of Israel accept their Messiah.

Reason #3– Rebuilding of the Holy Temple – Jesus failed to achieve this.

Through unbelief the Jews had no spiritual understanding. They had no idea that when Christ said, "in three days I will rebuild this temple" he was speaking of the believer becoming the temple of the Holy Spirit. Just pure unbelief.

Reason #4– Worldwide Reign of Peace – Jesus did not accomplish this.

Again, this could not and will not be completed until Israel accepts Christ, which will come to pass at the Second Coming.

Reason #5 – Observance of the Torah Embraced by All Jews – Jesus didn’t bring this about.

Impossible until all of Israel comes to Christ, but they seen no need of accepting Christ, in their minds they were already saved. Zechariah plainly states that the sacrifices will be reinstated and the Torah will be accepted by all Jews in the coming Kingdom Age.

Reason #6 – Universal Knowledge of G-d – Jesus clearly failed here also.

Israel failed in their calling to introduce Christ to the World, they were given the Law to prepare them for their Messiah, but they failed and God turned to the Gentiles. All of this was not accomplished because of the unbelief from the Chosen of God, Israel.

Only an opinion but did Jesus fail? Did Jesus not qualify? A few I think he did not fail in doing…one being gathering the exiles. Are those exiled of men still gathered today? Or what about “I will gather all men unto Me?” Peace …I think he did that too in reconciling the world unto God thereby making peace. Universal knowledge of God? They are without excuse for God has revealed it to them?

 

[Gaffer]

you need to study the OT prophets my friend.

Jesus fulfilled alot of prophecy.. He will return again to fulfill the rest of the prophecy concerning him..

And they jews did in unbelief when they chose barrabus

I'm not the one who needs to study prophesy. Christians have been duped by the gospel authors who committed fraud in pretending that certain verses in the OT are Messianic when they clearly are not. We know this by simply asking the undisputed experts on Messianic prophesy - the Hebrews that literally wrote the book on the subject. But instead, Christians spit on those OT authors and blindly swallow the lies of the NT. It's shameful. A virgin birth?? There is no story in the OT that even claims a virgin birth, and the story presented isn't even remotely Messianic. It's tiring to have to educate Christians on their own bible. The blind, uneducated reliance on Isa 7:14 as a proof of Jesus as the Messiah explodes Christianity all by itself. It merely serves to cause humiliation for the Christian that relies on it. I am attaching a typical synopsis of what Jewish scholars know are the actual attributes of their Messiah. If you honestly want to know what you're talking about, you need to study it, my friend.

The Messiah - Key beliefs in Judaism - GCSE Religious Studies Revision - AQA - BBC Bitesize

Learn about and revise key Jewish beliefs with BBC Bitesize Religious Studies - AQA.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm not the one who needs to study prophesy. Christians have been duped by the gospel authors who committed fraud in pretending that certain verses in the OT are Messianic when they clearly are not. We know this by simply asking the undisputed experts on Messianic prophesy - the Hebrews that literally wrote the book on the subject. But instead, Christians spit on those OT authors and blindly swallow the lies of the NT. It's shameful. A virgin birth?? There is no story in the OT that even claims a virgin birth, and the story presented isn't even remotely Messianic. It's tiring to have to educate Christians on their own bible. The blind, uneducated reliance on Isa 7:14 as a proof of Jesus as the Messiah explodes Christianity all by itself. It merely serves to cause humiliation for the Christian that relies on it. I am attaching a typical synopsis of what Jewish scholars know are the actual attributes of their Messiah. If you honestly want to know what you're talking about, you need to study it, my friend.

The Messiah - Key beliefs in Judaism - GCSE Religious Studies Revision - AQA - BBC Bitesize

Learn about and revise key Jewish beliefs with BBC Bitesize Religious Studies - AQA.

www.bbc.co.uk

you have been lost on the hidden mystery. That the suffering servant must come first.

what good is it to free Israel from Rome. when they still needed freed from their sin.

Jesus admitted himself in his reading he was going to be both

Luke 4:
7 And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:


18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me [i]to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are [j]oppressed;
19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”

20 Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21 And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”

Notice everything Jesus read was happening in his day.

But read on. There is more to the story

Is 61:
And the day of vengeance of our God;
To comfort all who mourn,
3 To console those who mourn in Zion,
To give them beauty for ashes,
The oil of joy for mourning,
The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
That they may be called trees of righteousness,
The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified.”

4 And they shall rebuild the old ruins,
They shall raise up the former desolations,
And they shall repair the ruined cities,
The desolations of many generations.
5 Strangers shall stand and feed your flocks,
And the sons of the foreigner
Shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
6 But you shall be named the priests of the Lord,
They shall call you the servants of our God.
You shall eat the riches of the Gentiles,
And in their glory you shall boast.
7 Instead of your shame you shall have double honor,
And instead of confusion they shall rejoice in their portion.
Therefore in their land they shall possess double;
Everlasting joy shall be theirs.

8 “For I, the Lord, love justice;
I hate robbery [c]for burnt offering;
I will direct their work in truth,
And will make with them an everlasting covenant.
9 Their descendants shall be known among the Gentiles,
And their offspring among the people.
All who see them shall acknowledge them,
That they are the posterity whom the Lord has blessed.”

They wanted this second part to happen.. They failed to realise. without the first part. there would be no second part.

 

[Charlie24]

Only an opinion but did Jesus fail? Did Jesus not qualify? A few I think he did not fail in doing…one being gathering the exiles. Are those exiled of men still gathered today? Or what about “I will gather all men unto Me?” Peace …I think he did that too in reconciling the world unto God thereby making peace. Universal knowledge of God? They are without excuse for God has revealed it to them?

Some good points!

There's something seriously wrong with a man that believes that Christ failed in anything, not realizing that it is man that fails, while the Mercy and Grace of God is extended.

For example, when Christ came to Israel, with God already preparing Israel for His arrival with the Law of Moses. Christ said, "The Kingdom of Heaven is a hand." He was offering Israel the Kingdom at that very moment, if only they had accepted Him. Then they in return would proclaim the Christ to the world, with His Kingdom on this earth.

The result of their rejection of Him has now added, so far, another some 2000 years to the sorrows of man on this earth. The failure was on the part of man, as it always is.

 

[Gaffer]

I have a question concerning “the Jews that wrote the OT told us previously how we would recognize the Messiah”?

You said the attributes do not include:
A virgin birth
A crucifixion
A resurrection
Divine attributes

Yet in the above …unless I have misunderstood you have required these attitudes. Suggesting “I don’t see anything miraculous about Christians”

A virgin birth: a miraculous birth. You’ve suggested “no. I don’t see any miraculous birth in Christianity.” As a way to recognize Christians.
A crucifixion: a death to self. “No. I don’t see any death to ego seeking either in Christianity.” As a way to recognize Christians.
A resurrection: raised up passing from death into life. From darkness into Light. “No. I don’t see any life abundantly in Christianity but the same ol’ death more abundant in us all.” As a way to recognize Christians.
Divine attributes: “not see Christians living any better or moral lives than any other group. In fact, quite the opposite. Our prisons are filled with Christians. “Child molesters are expected in the clergy - and those in education are..... yep, mostly Christians.” …as a way to recognize Christ?

You said the OT Jews told how to recognize the Messiah…was Christ given an miraculous birth? Did Christ die to self? Did Christ walk in death or in Life? In darkness or in Light? Do you see any divine attributes in Christ?

If not then why do you say that you don’t see any of that in Christians today? What is the measurement: No birth from above? No crucifixion? No resurrection? …and following the first three absences…= “No divine attributes.”

No New birth;
No crucifixion
No resurrection = no divine attributes.

These are the well accepted attributes that will identify the Messiah - as detailed by the Jews themselves - the undisputed experts on the subject.

The Messiah - Key beliefs in Judaism - GCSE Religious Studies Revision - AQA - BBC Bitesize

Learn about and revise key Jewish beliefs with BBC Bitesize Religious Studies - AQA.

www.bbc.co.uk

No virgin birth
No crucifixion
No resurrection
No divine attributes

If you deny the validity of what the OT explained about the Messiah, you must provide some reasonable argument as to why I should reject the experts who wrote about the Messiah centuries before the fact - in favor of the gospel authors who wrote decades after the fact.

 

[Jim B]

Well, the Jews didn't crucify anyone. That was the Romans. But certainly the Jews supported it, but not in 'unbelief'. They KNEW for a scriptural fact that Jesus was not the Messiah, as he did not fulfill any Messianic prophesy. And it's years later that Paul pretends to hear Jesus and creates a new religion barely recognizable to Jews. And more years after that when the gospel authors invent 'prophesy' to fraudulently shoehorn Jesus into the new religion.

1) Knowing something that is actually false is delusion.
2) Paul , a Jew, didn't pretend to hear Jesus and didn't invent a new religion.
3) The gospel authors didn't invent prophesy.

Why are you so confused? And why are you so intent on displaying your cynicism and ignorance? Are you really so deluded to think that coming onto a Christian forum and spewing this garbage will convince anyone of anything beyond recognizing that you're a fool?

 

[Gaffer]

you have been lost on the hidden mystery. That the suffering servant must come first.

what good is it to free Israel from Rome. when they still needed freed from their sin.

Jesus admitted himself in his reading he was going to be both

They wanted this second part to happen.. They failed to realise. without the first part. there would be no second part.

You're assuming facts not in evidence - and contradicted by the OT authors themselves. The Suffering Servant stories are not Messianic. Never were, never will be. Isaiah himself makes it clear the Servant is Israel. So, pretending they apply to Jesus is just sophistry. I provided the attributes for the Messiah that have been understood by the Hebrew experts for 2 millennia. Why did the gospel authors ignore scripture and pretend things like a virgin birth were valid? Was it because they knew a virgin birth story would appeal to the ignorant pagans they targeted for conversion?

 

[Jim B]

I'm not the one who needs to study prophesy. Christians have been duped by the gospel authors who committed fraud in pretending that certain verses in the OT are Messianic when they clearly are not. We know this by simply asking the undisputed experts on Messianic prophesy - the Hebrews that literally wrote the book on the subject. But instead, Christians spit on those OT authors and blindly swallow the lies of the NT. It's shameful. A virgin birth?? There is no story in the OT that even claims a virgin birth, and the story presented isn't even remotely Messianic. It's tiring to have to educate Christians on their own bible. The blind, uneducated reliance on Isa 7:14 as a proof of Jesus as the Messiah explodes Christianity all by itself. It merely serves to cause humiliation for the Christian that relies on it. I am attaching a typical synopsis of what Jewish scholars know are the actual attributes of their Messiah. If you honestly want to know what you're talking about, you need to study it, my friend.

The Messiah - Key beliefs in Judaism - GCSE Religious Studies Revision - AQA - BBC Bitesize

Learn about and revise key Jewish beliefs with BBC Bitesize Religious Studies - AQA.

www.bbc.co.uk

If it's tiring to have to educate Christians on our own Bible? Then why don't you just quit doing that?

You are doing nothing but displaying your ignorance. If you honestly want to know what you're talking about, you need to study God's word.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You're assuming facts not in evidence - and contradicted by the OT authors themselves. The Suffering Servant stories are not Messianic. Never were, never will be. Isaiah himself makes it clear the Servant is Israel. So, pretending they apply to Jesus is just sophistry. I provided the attributes for the Messiah that have been understood by the Hebrew experts for 2 millennia. Why did the gospel authors ignore scripture and pretend things like a virgin birth were valid? Was it because they knew a virgin birth story would appeal to the ignorant pagans they targeted for conversion?

You did not read the posts I gave you..

Jesus was the suffering servant. and messiah,, And the jews had him crucified.

those are just the facts

 

[Jim B]

You're assuming facts not in evidence - and contradicted by the OT authors themselves. The Suffering Servant stories are not Messianic. Never were, never will be. Isaiah himself makes it clear the Servant is Israel. So, pretending they apply to Jesus is just sophistry. I provided the attributes for the Messiah that have been understood by the Hebrew experts for 2 millennia. Why did the gospel authors ignore scripture and pretend things like a virgin birth were valid? Was it because they knew a virgin birth story would appeal to the ignorant pagans they targeted for conversion?

You are assuming facts not in evidence - and authoritatively proven by the OT authors themselves. The Suffering Servant stories are clearly Messianic. Always have been and always will be.

Your blatant misunderstanding of the Bible is extremely tragic. It is only superseded by your clear purpose to join a Christian forum to post lies and hatred. What motivates you? Satan?

There is a clear example of your behavior in the Bible. "Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tested by the devil. He fasted forty days and forty nights, and afterward he was famished. The tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.” But he answered, “It is written,

‘One does not live by bread alone,
but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’ ” Matthew 4:1-4

 

[Gaffer]

1) Knowing something that is actually false is delusion.
2) Paul , a Jew, didn't pretend to hear Jesus and didn't invent a new religion.
3) The gospel authors didn't invent prophesy.

Why are you so confused? And why are you so intent on displaying your cynicism and ignorance? Are you really so deluded to think that coming onto a Christian forum and spewing this garbage will convince anyone of anything beyond recognizing that you're a fool?

I understand your desperation to belittle facts you can't dispute. Your opinion of Paul is just that. But believing his story of hearing Jesus talk to him forces you to admit the following: That your omnipotent god was so befuddled, that he got himself killed before completing his ministry - and so had to come back.... decades later... and whisper to Paul - and suspiciously only Paul. And so when Paul then contradicts many of the teachings of Jesus - Christians just lap it up. Why? Because Paul was smart enough to know he couldn't gain power through pagan converts if he told them they had to follow the 613 mitzvot as insisted on by Jesus. So.... Poof! "Hey, Jesus whispered to me in private that you don't have to do all that shit! Isn't that great?? Sign up here!"
Christians are the ones that are confused. Every....single.... time that Jesus was asked - he stated that the Law must be followed - "every whit and tittle, unto the ending of the world". But Paul spit on Jesus and offered you the easier road - and the pagans that are now Christians jumped at the chance.

Dude, you don't even know that the virgin birth story is a known fraud, added by the lying NT authors because they knew it would appeal to their pagan victims. So you using the words 'ignorant' and 'fool' is laughable.

I'm on a Christian forum providing bible Truths that can't be refuted because I have seen Christians in these forums that actually had the intellectual integrity to consider the claims, study them, and ultimately accept them. Please don't insult other Christians by assuming they are as close minded as you. Look in the mirror. Your first response to my uncomfortable Truths was to stick your head in the sand and put me on ignore. Now your tactic is to lash out like some toddler. You are a caricature of the credulous Christian, lapping up every story without thought in your craven lust to see Nana in heaven. Ay caramba....

But let's make it easy for you. Show me the evidence from the OT that shows the Messiah would be born of a virgin. But fair warning. Prepare to be humiliated. :)

 

[Jim B]

the reasons they deny Jesus is the same reason most, if not all religious churches do.

1. They do not think they need saved
2. Jesus did not fit their perception of what the messiah should be
3. Their misinterpretation of the law.

I'm not sure who "they" are, as you didn't cite an earlier post.

Aside from your strange logic (churches can think), most Christians have believed that they needed to be saved, which is why they are saved.

If you're referring to Jews, you are wrong. I am a saved Jew, as are many others Jews. The first disciples and all the early churches were composed entirely of Jews. The entire Bible (except for Luke-Acts) was written by Jews.

So your three points are nothing more than anti-Semitism.

 

[Jim B]

The religious churches (according to my definition of religious churches) do reject christ. they replace the cross with their religion and works. Just like Israel did..

Maybe try reading everything I say in the future..

No thanks. Why would anyone want to read more of your bilious garbage?

 

[Jim B]

I understand your desperation to belittle facts you can't dispute. Your opinion of Paul is just that. But believing his story of hearing Jesus talk to him forces you to admit the following: That your omnipotent god was so befuddled, that he got himself killed before completing his ministry - and so had to come back.... decades later... and whisper to Paul - and suspiciously only Paul. And so when Paul then contradicts many of the teachings of Jesus - Christians just lap it up. Why? Because Paul was smart enough to know he couldn't gain power through pagan converts if he told them they had to follow the 613 mitzvot as insisted on by Jesus. So.... Poof! "Hey, Jesus whispered to me in private that you don't have to do all that shit! Isn't that great?? Sign up here!"
Christians are the ones that are confused. Every....single.... time that Jesus was asked - he stated that the Law must be followed - "every whit and tittle, unto the ending of the world". But Paul spit on Jesus and offered you the easier road - and the pagans that are now Christians jumped at the chance.

Dude, you don't even know that the virgin birth story is a known fraud, added by the lying NT authors because they knew it would appeal to their pagan victims. So you using the words 'ignorant' and 'fool' is laughable.

I'm on a Christian forum providing bible Truths that can't be refuted because I have seen Christians in these forums that actually had the intellectual integrity to consider the claims, study them, and ultimately accept them. Please don't insult other Christians by assuming they are as close minded as you. Look in the mirror. Your first response to my uncomfortable Truths was to stick your head in the sand and put me on ignore. Now your tactic is to lash out like some toddler. You are a caricature of the credulous Christian, lapping up every story without thought in your craven lust to see Nana in heaven. Ay caramba....

But let's make it easy for you. Show me the evidence from the OT that shows the Messiah would be born of a virgin. But fair warning. Prepare to be humiliated. :)

<ignored>

 

[Jim B]

These are the well accepted attributes that will identify the Messiah - as detailed by the Jews themselves - the undisputed experts on the subject.

The Messiah - Key beliefs in Judaism - GCSE Religious Studies Revision - AQA - BBC Bitesize

Learn about and revise key Jewish beliefs with BBC Bitesize Religious Studies - AQA.

www.bbc.co.uk

No virgin birth
No crucifixion
No resurrection
No divine attributes

If you deny the validity of what the OT explained about the Messiah, you must provide some reasonable argument as to why I should reject the experts who wrote about the Messiah centuries before the fact - in favor of the gospel authors who wrote decades after the fact.

<ignored>

 

[Gaffer]

You did not read the posts I gave you..

Jesus was the suffering servant. and messiah,, And the jews had him crucified.

those are just the facts

They are not the facts. There are 4 stories of the Suffering Servant in Isaiah. He TELLS you that the Servant is Israel. OT Jewish scholars universally AGREE that the Servant is Israel - Just as they agree that there is nothing Messianic in those stories. Like every Christian, you have been duped by the NT authors. Their tactic was to quote mine OT verses decades after the days of Jesus, and pretend he fulfilled prophesies that were never about the Messiah to begin with. Thus you have the ridiculous fraud of a virgin birth, and this fraud about a suffering savior -because it's a cool story line. It's sad to always see otherwise intelligent people who have abrogated their gift of Reason because they are desperate to believe in the bribe of heaven.