Reader Poll - Where did the Bible come from?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
- Start date
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Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Last I looked there weren't any perfect human authors...anywhere! Last I looked, people wrote books--God may have written the 10 Commandments. Inspiration doesn't quite catch it--poets are "inspired," but they are not necessarily accurate in presenting truth. The Bible presents truth, inspired by God.
Good poll! I hope people vote. Should be interesting! ;)
Good poll! I hope people vote. Should be interesting! ;)
God used fallible human authors, but God was the "Editor for Truth" and ensured their words were true.
Do you believe that carried through in the whole process involved to put a Bible in our hands today?
1) Oral traditions
2) Written accounts (usually long after the events occurred)
3) Collected writings (merged into books) Multiple authors
4) The body of original autographs/manuscripts (now all gone)
5) Copies of copies of copies of copies... of manuscripts
6) Oldest "manuscripts" as mere fragments (see image below)
7) Textual Criticism (choosing which manuscript copies to translate from)
8) Early translation work (subject to religious bias and political factors)
9) The King James Version of 1611 (Bibles finally becoming available to commoners)
10) Modern translation work (using modern technology and the Dead Sea Scrolls)
Oldest known New Testament manuscript copy (fragment).
The Gospel of John.
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That's a huge question. Did God continue to ensure the writers didn't add, edit or erase any of the original words? That would be our desire but, perhaps He didn't. Consider the RCC has unbiblically twisted and added to the scriptures. God hasn't stopped them. Maybe it's in his plan and purpose to not intervene after the initial writings. He will, however, be the judge of our intent.
I've read the "lost letters of Paul". There's good reason they never became cannon. They are interesting only in that they say the same things as his other letters only phrased in a different way and not as efficiently as the canonized works do. Plus there's more direct greeting of names of people that aren't important to us today theologically speaking.
Joel though....what a character!. I like the guy. Just a working stiff....a real nobody. But God gave him a message for the King...it wasn't a good message either.
Joel though....what a character!. I like the guy. Just a working stiff....a real nobody. But God gave him a message for the King...it wasn't a good message either.
Agree.
And not just the biblical "authors". (which is another question) Gospel of Q ???
Scribal errors and omissions, paraphrasing and added comments.
Majority texts that don't align with the earliest known manuscript copies...
The early translation work. Modern translation work.
Quite the gauntlet for "our" Bible to go through.
I read The Bible Tells Me So... by Peter Enns.
He does a comparison of I+II Kings and I+II Chronicles.
Two completely different historical accounts of the same period in history.
How did that happen?
This Zondervan book is interesting as well.
Five Views on Biblical Inerrancy
There are videos from all five authors. Here's Peter.
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Yes.
When you read some of the early church writing that was not included,
you can really appreciate the good work the Church did in selecting the right books
to be included in our canon of scripture. (one of several)
I'm glad they didn't included the Didache. (Teachings of the Twelve Apostles)
Which is dated to the same time period as the rest of the New Testament.
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The reason inspiration doesn't catch it for you is because you're not one of the ones being inspired.
The proof is when we are able to produce signs, miracles and wonders in the spirit. I do things in the spirit that cannot be done in the flesh. It's not that hard.
I would read all of Paul's letters if you would be so kind to inform as to where I can find them.
Randy Kluth said:
Last I looked there weren't any perfect human authors...anywhere! Last I looked, people wrote books--God may have written the 10 Commandments. Inspiration doesn't quite catch it--poets are "inspired," but they are not necessarily accurate in presenting truth. The Bible presents truth, inspired by God.
It seems you missed what Randy Kluth was driving at.
But you do get points for a witty response. - LOL
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Last I looked there weren't any perfect human authors...anywhere! Last I looked, people wrote books--God may have written the 10 Commandments. Inspiration doesn't quite catch it--poets are "inspired," but they are not necessarily accurate in presenting truth. The Bible presents truth, inspired by God.
Thanks for joining the discussion.
It seems you missed what Randy Kluth was driving at.
But you do get points for a witty response. - LOL
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This article might be helpful. (while you wait for a better response)
Paul's Lost Letters
Paul's Lost Letters by Michael S. Heiser. Free pastors and Christian leadership resources for your church ministry and congregation at Crosswalk.com
www.crosswalk.com
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Agree.
I'm not questioning God, or the power of his Spirit, when I say these things about where the Bible came from.
But I am questioning those who worship knowledge of the book more than the author.
Those who do, usually disagree with our position on Continuationism. (the continued use of miracle gifts today)
Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author
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St. SteVen said:
Do you believe that carried through in the whole process involved to put a Bible in our hands today?
1) Oral traditions
2) Written accounts (usually long after the events occurred)
3) Collected writings (merged into books) Multiple authors
4) The body of original autographs/manuscripts (now all gone)
5) Copies of copies of copies of copies... of manuscripts
6) Oldest "manuscripts" as mere fragments (see image below)
7) Textual Criticism (choosing which manuscript copies to translate from)
8) Early translation work (subject to religious bias and political factors)
9) The King James Version of 1611 (Bibles finally becoming available to commoners)
10) Modern translation work (using modern technology and the Dead Sea Scrolls)
The proof of what?
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Do you believe that carried through in the whole process involved to put a Bible in our hands today?
1) Oral traditions
2) Written accounts (usually long after the events occurred)
3) Collected writings (merged into books) Multiple authors
4) The body of original autographs/manuscripts (now all gone)
5) Copies of copies of copies of copies... of manuscripts
6) Oldest "manuscripts" as mere fragments (see image below)
7) Textual Criticism (choosing which manuscript copies to translate from)
8) Early translation work (subject to religious bias and political factors)
9) The King James Version of 1611 (Bibles finally becoming available to commoners)
10) Modern translation work (using modern technology and the Dead Sea Scrolls)
I should ask...
The proof of what?
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I don't see any letters there. Just a report talking about them.This article might be helpful. (while you wait for a better response)
Paul's Lost Letters
Paul's Lost Letters by Michael S. Heiser. Free pastors and Christian leadership resources for your church ministry and congregation at Crosswalk.com
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Books containing the letters are somewhat rare and difficult to find. I should have bought the one I found in a bookstore that I read through. (Paul's letters are short...paper and ink were expensive at the time) I haven't found another even with a Google search. I keep hoping though.
ALL scriptures went through 100 tests to be considered cannon. These tests were somewhat modified because of the inclusion of the Gentiles....(Luke's writings being the scripture left out otherwise)
Jude, Jesus's half brother, was the last book added to the cannon. (Some arguments exist that John's Apocalypse was last but they have a larger hill to climb proving it...but in truth they have a theology they are trying desperately to defend)
At any rate....Westcott's commentary on the letter is more valuable than most other commentaries on the book as it deals almost exclusively with extra-biblical Talmud tales.
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