Q for JW- KIEW?

[PS95]

Because God wants all to obey Jesus, thus sends ones to him first. Jesus only commands us what his Father tells him to say.

When I prayed to Jehovah and He gave me to Jesus, that is when I learned what Jesus has done for us. I honestly did not know before I went to Jesus that.. You are no dummy and I know you see that Jesus died for our sins- yes- no doubt- "(all sin)<- I never forgot that day keiw! And of course, that means we should never continue to walk in sins- but we repent and confess quickly because now the Holy Spirit convicts us, and we feel awful about it. Because we want to please God always, but we sometimes mess up. But the blood of Jesus washes us!!
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1: 9).

He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.
1 Peter 2:24
Keiw, see how that goes with Romans 6 above your last post where I have the verses- How we die to sin to live to righteousness now?
See--Romans 6:2, 6:11, 7:4, 6, Gal 2:19, Col 2:20, 3:3, 1 Pe 2:24

and this too goes with Romans 6
Gal 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Crucified with Christ now..-- see Romans 6:6.
also Gal 5:24, 6:14
&
Baptized into Christ now--
Romans 6:3, Matt 28:9, Acts 2:38, 8:16, 19:5, Gal 3:27

Buried with Him now--
Col 2:12 , having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Raised with Him now-
Col 2:12, Acts 2:24, Romans 6:4, 6:9

Newness of life now
Romans 6:4-Ro 7:6, 2Cor5;17, Gal 6:15, Eph 4:23, Col 3:10

Ro 6:7- He who has died is freed (aquitted) from sin now
Note freed is in the perfect tense which describes a past action with a continuing effect or force and thus speaks of permanence of this new found freedom in Christ.The believer has been freed at a point in time in past (moment of salvation) continues in that state of freedom from Sin (sin's penalty and power). Judicially speaking, Sin no longer has legal right or claim to force its mastery and control on a believer, for he has died with Christ and is forever in Christ and is complete in Him. 2 Col 2:10
Anyone who has died has been freed from sin." This is the final—and ultimate blessing—of our union with Christ. We have been set free from sin. That means just what it says. We were enslaved to sin, but now through Christ we have been set free.
That word, also means justified. -- he who died is justified
this is from Wuest- it may help you understand better..
dikaioo usually means "to justify, to declare righteous, to render or make righteous, acquit of a charge, to absolve. It is a term having to do with the law and the courts of law. In this sense Paul uses it in the section in Romans (Ro 3:21, 5:11) where he deals with justification. But in Romans 6 he is presenting the doctrine of sanctification (progressive sanctification or becoming holy). Therefore, the idea of being set free, growing out of the idea that a justified person is set free from the penalty of the law, is used. The one, Paul says, who died off once for all from the sinful nature, has been set free completely from it, with the present result that he is in a state of permanent freedom from it (as depicted by the PERFECT TENSE), permanent in the sense that God has set him free permanently from it. (Wuest's Word Studies from the Greek New Testament: Studies in the Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament: Grand Rapids: Eerdmans)

Sanctification (growth in holiness, Christ-likeness, spiritual maturity) is a process that continues throughout our Christian lives. But don't forget that sanctification is a process and not an arrival, for the believer will never be completely freed from the possibility of sinning in this life. Paul is declaring when we were co-crucified with Christ we died, and now that we are dead, we are legally free from Sin as our master. Justified people will live sanctified lives!

1 Pe 4:1-2
Therefore, since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, 2 so as to live the rest of the time in the flesh no longer for the lusts of men, but for the will of God 1 Pe 4:1

So now, we consider ourselves dead to sin but ALIVE to God In Christ. Ro 6:11

I know this is a long one, but I hope you read it. take days, weeks.. time to go over it. Long as you like!! i will be praying for you too.

 

[Wrangler]

So now, we consider ourselves dead to sin but ALIVE to God In Christ. Ro 6:11

I know you won't reply and that's OK.

The obvious pivot point is reality v "what we consider ourselves." Judgement Day is not a day we consider ourselves but are considered by another. And honestly, it always bothered me that some are raised only to be judged/sentenced, thrown in the Lake of Fire, second death. Being bothered by it and it being the Gospel truth are two different things.

Confidence and humility are also two different things. Christian humility of our fate on Judgement Day comes from the fact that Jesus proclaimed there are those who believe in him - and even perform miracles in his name - won't end up with the Lord. Matthew 7:21-23.

Justified people will live sanctified lives!

It's obviously not always the case or Jesus would not have said what he said in Matthew 7:21-23, you (believers) who break God’s laws ...

 

[Keiw]

When I prayed to Jehovah and He gave me to Jesus, that is when I learned what Jesus has done for us. I honestly did not know before I went to Jesus that.. You are no dummy and I know you see that Jesus died for our sins- yes- no doubt- "(all sin)<- I never forgot that day keiw! And of course, that means we should never continue to walk in sins- but we repent and confess quickly because now the Holy Spirit convicts us, and we feel awful about it. Because we want to please God always, but we sometimes mess up. But the blood of Jesus washes us!!
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1: 9).

He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.
1 Peter 2:24
Keiw, see how that goes with Romans 6 above your last post where I have the verses- How we die to sin to live to righteousness now?
See--Romans 6:2, 6:11, 7:4, 6, Gal 2:19, Col 2:20, 3:3, 1 Pe 2:24

and this too goes with Romans 6
Gal 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Crucified with Christ now..-- see Romans 6:6.
also Gal 5:24, 6:14
&
Baptized into Christ now--
Romans 6:3, Matt 28:9, Acts 2:38, 8:16, 19:5, Gal 3:27

Buried with Him now--
Col 2:12 , having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Raised with Him now-
Col 2:12, Acts 2:24, Romans 6:4, 6:9

Newness of life now
Romans 6:4-Ro 7:6, 2Cor5;17, Gal 6:15, Eph 4:23, Col 3:10

Ro 6:7- He who has died is freed (aquitted) from sin now
Note freed is in the perfect tense which describes a past action with a continuing effect or force and thus speaks of permanence of this new found freedom in Christ.The believer has been freed at a point in time in past (moment of salvation) continues in that state of freedom from Sin (sin's penalty and power). Judicially speaking, Sin no longer has legal right or claim to force its mastery and control on a believer, for he has died with Christ and is forever in Christ and is complete in Him. 2 Col 2:10
Anyone who has died has been freed from sin." This is the final—and ultimate blessing—of our union with Christ. We have been set free from sin. That means just what it says. We were enslaved to sin, but now through Christ we have been set free.
That word, also means justified. -- he who died is justified
this is from Wuest- it may help you understand better..
dikaioo usually means "to justify, to declare righteous, to render or make righteous, acquit of a charge, to absolve. It is a term having to do with the law and the courts of law. In this sense Paul uses it in the section in Romans (Ro 3:21, 5:11) where he deals with justification. But in Romans 6 he is presenting the doctrine of sanctification (progressive sanctification or becoming holy). Therefore, the idea of being set free, growing out of the idea that a justified person is set free from the penalty of the law, is used. The one, Paul says, who died off once for all from the sinful nature, has been set free completely from it, with the present result that he is in a state of permanent freedom from it (as depicted by the PERFECT TENSE), permanent in the sense that God has set him free permanently from it. (Wuest's Word Studies from the Greek New Testament: Studies in the Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament: Grand Rapids: Eerdmans)

Sanctification (growth in holiness, Christ-likeness, spiritual maturity) is a process that continues throughout our Christian lives. But don't forget that sanctification is a process and not an arrival, for the believer will never be completely freed from the possibility of sinning in this life. Paul is declaring when we were co-crucified with Christ we died, and now that we are dead, we are legally free from Sin as our master. Justified people will live sanctified lives!

1 Pe 4:1-2
Therefore, since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, 2 so as to live the rest of the time in the flesh no longer for the lusts of men, but for the will of God 1 Pe 4:1

So now, we consider ourselves dead to sin but ALIVE to God In Christ. Ro 6:11

I know this is a long one, but I hope you read it. take days, weeks.. time to go over it. Long as you like!! i will be praying for you too.

All sin. All pay their own wages of sin=death. The only ones who may never taste death are the remaining little flock who get changed in the twinkling of an eye during the tribulation, and those who make it through Armageddon on earth.
Jesus assures at Matt 7:21-23 any who work iniquity (practice a sin, or willfull sin) will hear those words as judgement. No matter what they think they did for him.

 

[RedFan]

All sin. All pay their own wages of sin=death.

The wages are earned by the sinner, not paid by the sinner.

 

[Wrangler]

The wages are earned by the sinner, not paid by the sinner.

Incorrect. By default, the wage earner gets paid.

Only God's Amazing Grace conditionally changes the default.

 

[PS95]

All sin. All pay their own wages of sin=death. The only ones who may never taste death are the remaining little flock who get changed in the twinkling of an eye during the tribulation, and those who make it through Armageddon on earth.
Jesus assures at Matt 7:21-23 any who work iniquity (practice a sin, or willfull sin) will hear those words as judgement. No matter what they think they did for him.

Hey Keiw,
ALL sin. ? is a fragment not a sentence. what is the rest of the sentence?
I dont know how this relates to what I posted to you. You jump around too much. Can I ask you to just stay with me? Did you read my post? Can you see that is referring to our new lives in Christ now while alive?

 

[Keiw]

Hey Keiw,
ALL sin. ? is a fragment not a sentence. what is the rest of the sentence?
I dont know how this relates to what I posted to you. You jump around too much. Can I ask you to just stay with me? Did you read my post? Can you see that is referring to our new lives in Christ now while alive?

None in the fake Christ has him. The trinity religion Jesus is false. The Muslim version of Jesus is false. The Jewish version of Jesus is false.

 

[PS95]

None in the fake Christ has him. The trinity religion Jesus is false. The Muslim version of Jesus is false. The Jewish version of Jesus is false.

Way to stay with me Keiw!? Jump to the default trinity again. I have told you that I dont think you need to believe in trinity and I never will tell you that. So why do you keep using it as a default so you can ignore what I did ask you?
Should I ask you where the bible says Michaels impersonal life-force was put into Mary's ovum?!!
What does that fake JW teaching have to do with Romans 6? Nothing! which is why I didnt bring it up here. lol
So back to Romans 6 again we go..
Scroll back- is all of that speaking about while we are ALIVE? Yes the answer is a YES! can we at least go that far together?

 

[face2face]

He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.
1 Peter 2:24
Keiw, see how that goes with Romans 6 above your last post where I have the verses- How we die to sin to live to righteousness now?
See--Romans 6:2, 6:11, 7:4, 6, Gal 2:19, Col 2:20, 3:3, 1 Pe 2:24

I've known many to quote this verse in Peter though so few understand how.

How did he bore your sins in his body?
How were yours sins represented?

F2F

 

[PS95]

I've known many to quote this verse in Peter though so few understand how.

How did he bore your sins in his body?
How were yours sins represented?

F2F

Hello..
The premise of this thread is simple.
Romans 6:1-14- Is Paul speaking about our lives in Christ in the present -now OR is he speaking about our physical deaths.
As you probably understand the implications of not discerning that properly are vast.
I am working with Keiw on reading these verses together rather than merely counting on only what watchtower leaders have said.

This thread has gone off the rails from everything from hellfire to the trinity and it's this length now, it would be great to stop derailing it.
If you would like to start a new thread on 1 Peter2 that would be fine.

 

[Keiw]

Way to stay with me Keiw!? Jump to the default trinity again. I have told you that I dont think you need to believe in trinity and I never will tell you that. So why do you keep using it as a default so you can ignore what I did ask you?
Should I ask you where the bible says Michaels impersonal life-force was put into Mary's ovum?!!
What does that fake JW teaching have to do with Romans 6? Nothing! which is why I didnt bring it up here. lol
So back to Romans 6 again we go..
Scroll back- is all of that speaking about while we are ALIVE? Yes the answer is a YES! can we at least go that far together?

You have been told truth about Rom 6--case closed.

 

[face2face]

Hello..
The premise of this thread is simple.
Romans 6:1-14- Is Paul speaking about our lives in Christ in the present -now OR is he speaking about our physical deaths.
As you probably understand the implications of not discerning that properly are vast.
I am working with Keiw on reading these verses together rather than merely counting on only what watchtower leaders have said.

This thread has gone off the rails from everything from hellfire to the trinity and it's this length now, it would be great to stop derailing it.
If you would like to start a new thread on 1 Peter2 that would be fine.

Firstly, the death of Christ was physical and spiritual death and its that death we enter when we baptized into him.
there was no duality of nature and no such thing as an ethereal spirit.

Therefore we have been buried with him through baptism into death, in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may live a new life Ro 6:3–4.

The atonement only works if death is complete and total cessation of life!

F2F

 

[Jack]

Any who know God and that he is love know 100% there is no literal eternal suffering. The darkness teaches it as literal.
I shared this fact with you, but you throw truth away to appease the darkness--A teaching on eternal suffering= Mark 9:48)The place where the worm( maggot) dieth not)))--Fact= no worm or maggot can survive a single hour in a hot firey place let alone dieth not. So you can get out of the darkness and come to the light and get to know the true God=YHVH(Jehovah) not a sadist as your religion teaches in their lack of understanding, but a God of LOVE.

Satan LOVES it when his messengers convince people that there is no literal EVERLASTING Hell Fire!

Matthew 25:41
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[PS95]

You have been told truth about Rom 6--case closed.

Yes. you stated this---- "PHYSICAL DEATH."--- numerous times- a sentence fragment.
You think you're tired?! You give No explanation- no reading of the verses with me.
You expect me to believe that you think R0 6 :1-14 is all about physical death? Really?
The Watchtower is WRONG- dead WRONG. Wake up, Keiw!! Read with your OWN eyes--

Romans 6:1-14
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

 

[PS95]

Satan LOVES it when his messengers convince people that there is no literal EVERLASTING Hell Fire!

Matthew 25:41
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

how many times do I have to tell ya? This thread had zero to do with hellfire.

 

[Keiw]

Satan LOVES it when his messengers convince people that there is no literal EVERLASTING Hell Fire!

Matthew 25:41
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

You have no understanding of bible truth. Just like you probably believe one will be judged on past sins prior to death during the resurrection.

 

[Jack]

You have no understanding of bible truth. Just like you probably believe one will be judged on past sins prior to death during the resurrection.

But I do understand. JW's attack the Bible like Satan TWISTING nearly every verse to change what God said! Remember, YOU are the one who said our Bibles are errors and Satanic, just like Aunty said Jesus' teachings on Hell fire are Satanic! Remember?

 

[Keiw]

But I do understand. JW's attack the Bible like Satan TWISTING nearly every verse to change what God said! Remember, YOU are the one who said our Bibles are errors and Satanic, just like Aunty said Jesus' teachings on Hell fire are Satanic! Remember?

All translations with Gods name removed against his will was done by satans will=100% fact. TO MISLEAD. Whose will do you and your religion give support to on that matter?

 

[David in NJ]

Hi RLT,

I'm happy to have you post! I want so badly for these JWs to see that Romans 6 is not about our physical death.

Jane brought up hell and I purposefully did not address it because they don't believe in punishment after death. That's a whole other topic. I want to keep them on topic of Romans 6:7 ,23. It's very serious. Jesus was spotless, blameless in death, and it's is utterly ignored that is what God requires! They are literally trying to SUBSTITUTE for Jesus . Do you see this? I don't think they see it!

Can you imagine thinking that we die to pay for our own sins? Jesus only died for Adam's original sin according to them, and Adam will not be resurrected. So, Jesus did not die for him either, but for original sin. They say, Jesus does not cover our personal sins. We have to die to pay for those. They think that the wages of sin is death means that we are paying our sin debt to God. They don't understand that a wage is something you have earned, a wage, your punishment,-- not us paying God, but him paying us what we deserve!

They don't even address the rest of the sentence of verse 23. They say they understand grace, and yet they are so far off that it's horrifying.
I want them to be free. I have many family members that are JWs. They don't speak to me. I was never baptized as a Jw but I have been shunned for as long as I can recall.
Aunty Jane has told me that she didn't have bible knowledge when she had "bible" studies with Jws 50+ yrs ago. Bible is in quotes because it is actually Watchtower book study with the bible along side. Verses are cherry-picked and woven into their own doctrines. You don't realize that is what is happening at the time. It happened to me too!
People that don't know their bible are especially at risk with Jws. So, I have sympathy for them. I hate what they teach, but I don't hate them. They are victims- angry, self-righteous, rude, know it alls too.. yes lol but still naked and in need of Christ.
Help me keep them on topic, please?

JW's cannot SEE because they do not believe the Word that was God from the Beginning.

No different then Catholics who place their trust in RCC practices as opposed to trusting in Christ.

All false religions do the same thing = divert the seeker away from Christ.

 

[David in NJ]

All translations with Gods name removed against his will was done by satans will=100% fact. TO MISLEAD. Whose will do you and your religion give support to on that matter?

Kiew, You do not believe in the Name of God.

The whole purpose of jehovah witness is to turn you away from the Name of God.