Q for JW- KIEW?

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PS95

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I'm glad you asked what you could do. 1st, stop the nastiness.

2nd accept the explanation I already gave you
; I never called Jesus a liar, only that he obviously lied. The latter is a tactic in war, which our lord obviously fought - and won; a war against evil. The former is an assessment of character.

Do you study history? Do you know the Germans were lied to repeatedly about the invasion being at Calais? Deception is a tool in the art of war. So, that's 3rd, accept:
  1. deception is a tool in the art of war;
  2. We are at war, the ongoing war between good and evil.
If you were alive at the time of Christ's birth and knew where he was going to be born and the devil asked you where, would you tell him? I wouldn't.

It is my firm opinion that Christians today are overly spiritualized and neglect soulful things, things of this world that the body needs. Where does this idea come from that Jesus and his God cannot lie in the face of text showing they did? Consider God telling Abraham to slaughter his own son. That is a tough lesson but it begins in deception. Sure, we can call it a test but it is a deceptive test. What does it tell us that God rewarded the Midwives of Pharoah for lying about killing new born Hebrew babies or Rahab for lying FOR Joshua's men?

Did you ever read the verse were 400 prophets were lied to? We should be able to trust a prophet telling us the word of God, right? The text reveals a more sophisticated truth than simply "good guys don't lie." Jesus often did not give a straight answer. What do you call that? I love Jesus and his character is holy and I try to tell the difficult truths as he did.

1 Kings 22:22-23 (REV)
22“And Yahweh said to him, ‘How?’ And he said, ‘I will go out and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And he said, ‘You will entice him and will also prevail. Go out and do so.’ 23“So now, behold, Yahweh has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all of these prophets of yours, and Yahweh has spoken evil concerning you.”

I'm glad you asked what you could do. 1st, stop the nastiness.

2nd accept the explanation I already gave you
; I never called Jesus a liar, only that he obviously lied. The latter is a tactic in war, which our lord obviously fought - and won; a war against evil. The former is an assessment of character.

Do you study history? Do you know the Germans were lied to repeatedly about the invasion being at Calais? Deception is a tool in the art of war. So, that's 3rd, accept:
  1. deception is a tool in the art of war;
  2. We are at war, the ongoing war between good and evil.
If you were alive at the time of Christ's birth and knew where he was going to be born and the devil asked you where, would you tell him? I wouldn't.

It is my firm opinion that Christians today are overly spiritualized and neglect soulful things, things of this world that the body needs. Where does this idea come from that Jesus and his God cannot lie in the face of text showing they did? Consider God telling Abraham to slaughter his own son. That is a tough lesson but it begins in deception. Sure, we can call it a test but it is a deceptive test. What does it tell us that God rewarded the Midwives of Pharoah for lying about killing new born Hebrew babies or Rahab for lying FOR Joshua's men?

Did you ever read the verse were 400 prophets were lied to? We should be able to trust a prophet telling us the word of God, right? The text reveals a more sophisticated truth than simply "good guys don't lie." Jesus often did not give a straight answer. What do you call that? I love Jesus and his character is holy and I try to tell the difficult truths as he did.

1 Kings 22:22-23 (REV)
22“And Yahweh said to him, ‘How?’ And he said, ‘I will go out and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And he said, ‘You will entice him and will also prevail. Go out and do so.’ 23“So now, behold, Yahweh has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all of these prophets of yours, and Yahweh has spoken evil concerning you.”
Wrangler, I've told you we are DONE. I have asked you to stop posting to me. Did that work? No. So, I told you that IF you reply to me again you will get your JESUS IS A LIAR QUOTE AS MY REPLY.
Did that stop you? nope.
I followed up with that I told you I would do. Then you cry victim! It's a form of insanity , pal.
You are an extremely rude, vicious slandering poster who is WRONG more times than not. I dont engage with that.
Now take my advice once again please and do not post to me.
The field is full of people that like arguing with anyone about anything. I am not interested. Go & and play with the others while sticking out your chest and beating on it and have fun now, ya hear?
 

PS95

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A son comes from a father. Jesus’ father, was the Almighty God. So Jesus is divine, since divine means “of or from God”.

But I asked you questions first…

Read Romans 6:1-14 YET? Paul speaking about PHYSICAL death or PRESENT LIFE alive NOW in Christ?
SINCE YOU ARENT IN CHRIST HOW CAN U EXPECT TO TEACH A DARNED THING ABOUT HIM?

LOL
Do we ask the person who cant cook how to cook? Does the mountain climber teach others how to if he never has? Does the seamstress offer her knowledge on how to build a campfire if hs ehas never been outside?
This is JUST TOOOOOOOO MUCH! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA :watching and waiting:
 

PS95

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ROMANS 6:1-14
IS PAUL SPEAKING ABOUT OUR :

A) OUR PHYSICAL DEATH
B) OUR NEW LIVES IN CHRIST NOW WHILE ALIVE?
JWs pick-- A
I'm SERIOUS!
they are CLUELESS to the NT.
they think all those verses teach is that when they physically die, that they have paid their sin debt to God.
NO JESUS needed! (He only died for Adam's sin & paved a way for you to earn..)

HELLO?

So, now I have a serious question for the non-JW'(& wrangler) posters on here.
Understand this about JWs, please?

Jws do not believe that Jesus' blood covered their sins.
They do not believe in being born a new
ARE NOT IN THE NEW COVENANT
JESUS IS NOT THEIR MEDIATOR
NOT A PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST
JESUS DID NOT DIE FOR THEIR SINS
NOT DECLARED RIGHTEOUS
DO NOT BELONG TO CHRIST
NOT BRANCHES OF THE TRUE VINE
DO NOT CRY OUT "ABBA FATHER"
NOT ANNOINTED SONS OF GOD
NOT HEIRS WITH CHRIST
NOT BORN AGAIN OF THE SPIRIT
NOT BAPTIZED INTO JESUS' DEATH
NOT FREED FROM BEING SLAVES TO SIN
NOT SPIRITUAL CHILDREN OF GOD
NOT BAPTIZED INTO JESUS' DEATH
NOT FREED FROM BEING SLAVES TO SIN
JESUS DID NOT DIE FOR THEIR SINS
NOT SPIRITUAL CHILDREN OF GOD
NOT PARTAKERS OF HIS FLESH & BLOOD
NOT PARTAKERS OF COMMUNION
NOT UNITED WITH JESUS IN THE LIKENESS OF HIS DEATH
etc..............

..and you want to argue the trinity with these people?

So, seriously-- if you just feel like endlessly arguing with someone with no hope of ever helping them by all means continue arguing over the temperature of hell and the trinity with these UNBELIEVERS.
But if YOU CARE about them - STOP. AND LEAD THEM TO CHRIST' GOSPEL.
You did not come to faith in CHRIST because someone taught you the trinity!!!
They need CHRIST first!
 

TheHC

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The Hebrew word for God is Elohim which is PLURAL and contains within the FATHER/SON/HOLY SPIRIT
Then why is the plural form used for single gods?
It is…
Judges 16:23… “As for the Phi·lisʹtine axis lords, they gathered together to sacrifice a great sacrifice to Daʹgon their god* and for rejoicing, and they kept saying: “Our god has given into our hand Samson our enemy!”

  • * “Their god.” Heb., ʼelo·heh·hemʹ, pl. to denote excellence, applying to Dagon and with a sing. verb; LXXA(Gr.), the·oiʹ; Lat., deʹo.
“Elohim” is also used to denote excellence, or the best.

Please see 1 Samuel 5:7; 2 Kings 19:37. Now, these gods were singular gods, but those who worshipped them, thought their god was “the best”. But singular verbs were always applied to singular gods. So it is with Yahweh.


In no way did these Jewish authors of Scripture use “Elohim” or its variants to contradict the Shema, “Hear, O Israel: Yahweh our God is one Yahweh.” — Deut. 6:4

Before we can arrive at a conclusion on Biblical words, it’s best to know how they’re used… don’t you think?

Thus God sent Himself in the form of the Only Begotten of the Father.
Nowhere does the Bible say this.
No one has ever seen God.” -John 1:18
Thus "Let Us make man in Our Image according to Our likeness" - Genesis
Do you talk to yourself? I don’t, I speak with others.

So God was speaking with someone else, not Himself.

If the Bible wanted to indicate that God and Jesus are equal, it would call them brothers, not father and son.
 
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David in NJ

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Then why is the plural form used for single gods?
It is…
Judges 16:23… “As for the Phi·lisʹtine axis lords, they gathered together to sacrifice a great sacrifice to Daʹgon their god* and for rejoicing, and they kept saying: “Our god has given into our hand Samson our enemy!”

  • * “Their god.” Heb., ʼelo·heh·hemʹ, pl. to denote excellence, applying to Dagon and with a sing. verb; LXXA(Gr.), the·oiʹ; Lat., deʹo.
“Elohim” is also used to denote excellence, or the best.

Please see 1 Samuel 5:7; 2 Kings 19:37. Now, these gods were singular gods, but those who worshipped them, thought their god was “the best”. But singular verbs were always applied to singular gods. So it is with Yahweh.


In no way did these Jewish authors of Scripture use “Elohim” or its variants to contradict the Shema, “Hear, O Israel: Yahweh our God is one Yahweh.” — Deut. 6:4

Before we can arrive at a conclusion on Biblical words, it’s best to know how they’re used… don’t you think?


Nowhere does the Bible say this.
No one has ever seen God.” -John 1:18

Do you talk to yourself? I don’t, I speak with others.

So God was speaking with someone else, not Himself.

If the Bible wanted to indicate that God and Jesus are equal, it would call them brothers, not father and son.
In no way did these Jewish authors of Scripture use “Elohim” or its variants to contradict the Shema, “Hear, O Israel: Yahweh our God is one Yahweh.” — Deut. 6:4
Hebrew knowledge of Elohim/God is built upon the Scripture Itself.

Therefore we SEE Elohim(Plural) declaring THEIR PLURALITY from chapter 1 in Genesis

"Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness"


The Shema = Deut 5:4 = Declares that YHWH our Elohim is ECHAD

Hear,
שְׁמַ֖ע‪‬ (šə·ma‘)
Verb - Qal - Imperative - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 8085: v 1) to hear, listen to, obey 1a) (Qal) 1a1) to hear (perceive by ear) 1a2) to hear of or concerning 1a3) to hear (have power to hear) 1a4) to hear with attention or interest, listen to 1a5) to understand (language) 1a6) to hear (of judicial cases) 1a7) to listen, give heed 1a7a) to consent, agree 1a7b) to grant request 1a8) to listen to, yield to 1a9) to obey, be obedient 1b) (Niphal) 1b1) to be heard (of voice or sound) 1b2) to be heard of 1b3) to be regarded, be obeyed 1c) (Piel) to cause to hear, call to hear, summon 1d) (Hiphil) 1d1) to cause to hear, tell, proclaim, utter a sound 1d2) to sound aloud (musical term) 1d3) to make proclamation, summon 1d4) to cause to be heard n m 2) sound

O Israel:
יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל (yiś·rā·’êl)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 3478: Israel = 'God prevails' 1) the second name for Jacob given to him by God after his wrestling with the angel at Peniel 2) the name of the descendants and the nation of the descendants of Jacob 2a) the name of the nation until the death of Solomon and the split 2b) the name used and given to the northern kingdom consisting of the 10 tribes under Jeroboam; the southern kingdom was known as Judah 2c) the name of the nation after the return from exile

The LORD
יְהוָ֥ה (Yah·weh)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 3068: Jehovah = 'the existing One' 1) the proper name of the one true God 1a) unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of H0136

our God,
אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ (’ĕ·lō·hê·nū)
Noun - masculine plural construct | first person common plural
Strong's Hebrew 430: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God

the LORD
יְהוָ֥ה ׀ (Yah·weh)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 3068: Jehovah = 'the existing One' 1) the proper name of the one true God 1a) unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of H0136

is One.
אֶחָֽד׃‪‬ (’e·ḥāḏ)
Number - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 259: 1) one (number) 1a) one (number) 1b) each, every 1c) a certain 1d) an (indefinite article) 1e) only, once, once for all 1f) one...another, the one...the other, one after another, one by one 1g) first 1h) eleven (in combination), eleventh (ordinal)
 

PS95

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Hebrew knowledge of Elohim/God is built upon the Scripture Itself.

Therefore we SEE Elohim(Plural) declaring THEIR PLURALITY from chapter 1 in Genesis

"Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness"


The Shema = Deut 5:4 = Declares that YHWH our Elohim is ECHAD

Hear,
שְׁמַ֖ע‪‬ (šə·ma‘)
Verb - Qal - Imperative - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 8085: v 1) to hear, listen to, obey 1a) (Qal) 1a1) to hear (perceive by ear) 1a2) to hear of or concerning 1a3) to hear (have power to hear) 1a4) to hear with attention or interest, listen to 1a5) to understand (language) 1a6) to hear (of judicial cases) 1a7) to listen, give heed 1a7a) to consent, agree 1a7b) to grant request 1a8) to listen to, yield to 1a9) to obey, be obedient 1b) (Niphal) 1b1) to be heard (of voice or sound) 1b2) to be heard of 1b3) to be regarded, be obeyed 1c) (Piel) to cause to hear, call to hear, summon 1d) (Hiphil) 1d1) to cause to hear, tell, proclaim, utter a sound 1d2) to sound aloud (musical term) 1d3) to make proclamation, summon 1d4) to cause to be heard n m 2) sound

O Israel:
יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל (yiś·rā·’êl)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 3478: Israel = 'God prevails' 1) the second name for Jacob given to him by God after his wrestling with the angel at Peniel 2) the name of the descendants and the nation of the descendants of Jacob 2a) the name of the nation until the death of Solomon and the split 2b) the name used and given to the northern kingdom consisting of the 10 tribes under Jeroboam; the southern kingdom was known as Judah 2c) the name of the nation after the return from exile

The LORD
יְהוָ֥ה (Yah·weh)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 3068: Jehovah = 'the existing One' 1) the proper name of the one true God 1a) unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of H0136

our God,
אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ (’ĕ·lō·hê·nū)
Noun - masculine plural construct | first person common plural
Strong's Hebrew 430: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God

the LORD
יְהוָ֥ה ׀ (Yah·weh)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 3068: Jehovah = 'the existing One' 1) the proper name of the one true God 1a) unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of H0136

is One.
אֶחָֽד׃‪‬ (’e·ḥāḏ)
Number - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 259: 1) one (number) 1a) one (number) 1b) each, every 1c) a certain 1d) an (indefinite article) 1e) only, once, once for all 1f) one...another, the one...the other, one after another, one by one 1g) first 1h) eleven (in combination), eleventh (ordinal)
ROMANS 6:1-14
IS PAUL SPEAKING ABOUT OUR :
A) OUR PHYSICAL DEATH
B) OUR NEW LIVES IN CHRIST NOW WHILE ALIVE?
JWs pick-- A
I'm SERIOUS!
they are CLUELESS to the NT.
they think all those verses teach is that when they physically die, that they have paid their sin debt to God.
NO JESUS needed! (He only died for Adam's sin & paved a way for you to earn..)

HELLO?

So, now I have a serious question for the non-JW'(& wrangler) posters on here.
Understand this about JWs, please?

Jws do not believe that Jesus' blood covered their sins.
They do not believe in being born a new
ARE NOT IN THE NEW COVENANT
JESUS IS NOT THEIR MEDIATOR
NOT A PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST
JESUS DID NOT DIE FOR THEIR SINS
NOT DECLARED RIGHTEOUS
DO NOT BELONG TO CHRIST
NOT BRANCHES OF THE TRUE VINE
DO NOT CRY OUT "ABBA FATHER"
NOT ANNOINTED SONS OF GOD
NOT HEIRS WITH CHRIST
NOT BORN AGAIN OF THE SPIRIT
NOT BAPTIZED INTO JESUS' DEATH
NOT FREED FROM BEING SLAVES TO SIN
NOT SPIRITUAL CHILDREN OF GOD
NOT BAPTIZED INTO JESUS' DEATH
NOT FREED FROM BEING SLAVES TO SIN
JESUS DID NOT DIE FOR THEIR SINS
NOT SPIRITUAL CHILDREN OF GOD
NOT PARTAKERS OF HIS FLESH & BLOOD
NOT PARTAKERS OF COMMUNION
NOT UNITED WITH JESUS IN THE LIKENESS OF HIS DEATH
etc..............

..and you want to argue the trinity with these people?

So, seriously-- if you just feel like endlessly arguing with someone with no hope of ever helping them by all means continue arguing over the temperature of hell and the trinity with these UNBELIEVERS.
But if YOU CARE about them - STOP. AND LEAD THEM TO CHRIST' GOSPEL.
You did not come to faith in CHRIST because someone taught you the trinity!!!
They need CHRIST first!
 

David in NJ

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ROMANS 6:1-14
IS PAUL SPEAKING ABOUT OUR :
A) OUR PHYSICAL DEATH
B) OUR NEW LIVES IN CHRIST NOW WHILE ALIVE?
JWs pick-- A
I'm SERIOUS!
they are CLUELESS to the NT.
they think all those verses teach is that when they physically die, that they have paid their sin debt to God.
NO JESUS needed! (He only died for Adam's sin & paved a way for you to earn..)

HELLO?

So, now I have a serious question for the non-JW'(& wrangler) posters on here.
Understand this about JWs, please?

Jws do not believe that Jesus' blood covered their sins.
They do not believe in being born a new
ARE NOT IN THE NEW COVENANT
JESUS IS NOT THEIR MEDIATOR
NOT A PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST
JESUS DID NOT DIE FOR THEIR SINS
NOT DECLARED RIGHTEOUS
DO NOT BELONG TO CHRIST
NOT BRANCHES OF THE TRUE VINE
DO NOT CRY OUT "ABBA FATHER"
NOT ANNOINTED SONS OF GOD
NOT HEIRS WITH CHRIST
NOT BORN AGAIN OF THE SPIRIT
NOT BAPTIZED INTO JESUS' DEATH
NOT FREED FROM BEING SLAVES TO SIN
NOT SPIRITUAL CHILDREN OF GOD
NOT BAPTIZED INTO JESUS' DEATH
NOT FREED FROM BEING SLAVES TO SIN
JESUS DID NOT DIE FOR THEIR SINS
NOT SPIRITUAL CHILDREN OF GOD
NOT PARTAKERS OF HIS FLESH & BLOOD
NOT PARTAKERS OF COMMUNION
NOT UNITED WITH JESUS IN THE LIKENESS OF HIS DEATH
etc..............

..and you want to argue the trinity with these people?

So, seriously-- if you just feel like endlessly arguing with someone with no hope of ever helping them by all means continue arguing over the temperature of hell and the trinity with these UNBELIEVERS.
But if YOU CARE about them - STOP. AND LEAD THEM TO CHRIST' GOSPEL.
You did not come to faith in CHRIST because someone taught you the trinity!!!
They need CHRIST first!

The FATHER/SON/HOLY SPIRIT is the irremovable TRUTH of Genesis
 
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PS95

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The FATHER/SON/HOLY SPIRIT is the irremovable TRUTH of Genesis
I was raised in that disgraceful religion. I know what I'm saying- that's all that I'm trying to convey. Every XJW knows that this is not how to go about it. These people worship 8 gods who live in NY. they will believe ONLY what they tell them! Until you show them WHO those men really are they see you as SATAN. They can not hear you because you believe in the trinity. It's true. It's mental block built into them via deceptions. Nothing you say is valid because you are an evil trinitarian. I grew up with a brochure called, "Should you believe in the trinity?" by the Watchtower. Anyone who doesnt have a full catalog of references next to them will be taught awful lies! It is FULL of deceptive quotes of scholars, encyclopedias, photos. etc. This is their biggest thing and they know every verse to lower Jesus inside and out. Context / who needs that? If they can't twist a verse they changed it! They feel that by lowering Jesus that they are exalting Jehovah. To you and I, that is funny but they are very serious. THIS IS MIND CONTROL. You are wasting your time. I mean that in all sincerity. it is not how to get through to them. All it does is FEED them. It's their pet topic. Trust me.
There is a better way.
1) Help them to see that the watchtower is not who they say.
IT takes TIME. This is very hard for them. They really believe in them!
2) Lead them to Christ
Once they begin to see... it's no done deal- they have tons of mistrust- slowly show them why they NEED Jesus & how they too can have Him.
3) Pray pray pray for them
They have BEEN lied to. They dont think they can belong to Jesus. he is NOT their mediator.
They think there are 2 flocks with 2 classes . One is ruled OVER and one is ruling. The other sheep are not the Gentiles to them.
They are convinced that you are Satan trying to deceive them.
Its no game. They use a serious mind control technique omn members through rote learning and fear.
 
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Berean

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You avoid LOTS of Scripture!

Isaiah 9:6 A male child born, "Mighty God", "Everlasting Father"!

One of many.
Yes, Isaiah 9:6 gives our Savior the title, “The mighty God.” But the Jewish writers were not saying that the Messiah would literally be Jehovah. If judges of Israel were called “gods,” as in Ps. 82:1-7, what would be earthshaking about calling Jesus the “mighty God” (Hebrew, ‘El Gib-bohr’)? Notice, he is not called ‘El Shad-dai,’ a term exclusively applied to Jehovah. Further, “God” in the Isaiah text is the Hebrew EL, defined by Dr. Strong as “strength; as adj[ective] mighty; espec[ially] the Almighty (but used also of any deity).”2 The fact that the same word (EL) is used in Isa. 57:5 in describing idols shows indeed that it is a general term used to describe any mighty being and, hence, quite appropriately may be applied to our Savior, Jesus, in Isa. 9:6. The following sources offer additional comments on Isa. 9:6 and Ps. 82:1-7: The Catholic Encyclopedia states: “Even these exalted titles did not lead the Jews to recognize that the Saviour to come was to be none other than God Himself.”3 And the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature, by McClintock and Strong, says: “Thus it appears that none of the passages cited from the Old Test[ament] in proof of the Trinity are conclusive. . . . We do not find in the Old Test[ament] clear or decided proof upon this subject.”

Isaiah 9:6 “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God [El, Strong’s, #410, ‘strength, mighty, Almighty,’ applicable ‘to any deity’], The everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.” (Christ is appropriately called “Father” from the standpoint of his becoming the second Adam—life-giver to the race— and “source of eternal salvation” (1 Cor. 15:47; Heb. 5:9). Christ is no longer a branch (receiver) but the “root” (giver of life) in the regeneration (Rev. 22:16; Matt. 19:28).
 
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Keiw

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God never said that.

FYI = All liars will have their part in the 'Lake of Fire'.
If Jesus failed the ransom sacrifice he would never have been savior, he became that on a successful completion of the Ransom sacrifice. There was no name Jesus in the OT.
 
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Keiw

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Wrong. He does not make it up as He goes along! God has ALWAYS had a plan of Salvation- HIS SON- our ONLY Savior. The Savior of Jews and Gentiles since before the world began.
“All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” Rev 13:8
You were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot. He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you” 1 Pe 1 18-20

Always been our Savior. Always.
Only YHVH was savior in the OT.
 
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Keiw

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EVASIVE as usual! The WatchTower admits to a terrible translation in Scripture about Jesus, thereby admitting they totally misled MILLIONS of JW's about the Savior! And YOU accuse our Bibles of being errors and Satanic! Utter hypocrisy!
dream on Jack.
 

Keiw

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Seems like a few are ganging up on your here Keiw?

You love justice and hate evil. For this reason God, your God has anointed you with the oil of joy, elevating you above your companions
Ps 45:7.

Blessed is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms in Christ Eph 1:3.

The issue is the infection of Platonic doctrine in the minds of Christians who cannot understand that Jesus has both a Creator and a God. He is the New Creation - first-fruits - first begotten from the dead.

You are wasting your time engaging with these people K as they have the Bible 2nd and their Council Creeds 1st and the 1st trumps the 2nd.

Just think they have 2000 years of error upon error in their minds - how can they ever see clearly?

Impossible!

F2F
I am merely a seed planter.
 
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face2face

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Yes, Isaiah 9:6 gives our Savior the title, “The mighty God.” But the Jewish writers were not saying that the Messiah would literally be Jehovah. If judges of Israel were called “gods,” as in Ps. 82:1-7, what would be earthshaking about calling Jesus the “mighty God” (Hebrew, ‘El Gib-bohr’)? Notice, he is not called ‘El Shad-dai,’ a term exclusively applied to Jehovah. Further, “God” in the Isaiah text is the Hebrew EL, defined by Dr. Strong as “strength; as adj[ective] mighty; espec[ially] the Almighty (but used also of any deity).”2 The fact that the same word (EL) is used in Isa. 57:5 in describing idols shows indeed that it is a general term used to describe any mighty being and, hence, quite appropriately may be applied to our Savior, Jesus, in Isa. 9:6. The following sources offer additional comments on Isa. 9:6 and Ps. 82:1-7: The Catholic Encyclopedia states: “Even these exalted titles did not lead the Jews to recognize that the Saviour to come was to be none other than God Himself.”3 And the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature, by McClintock and Strong, says: “Thus it appears that none of the passages cited from the Old Test[ament] in proof of the Trinity are conclusive. . . . We do not find in the Old Test[ament] clear or decided proof upon this subject.”

Isaiah 9:6 “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God [El, Strong’s, #410, ‘strength, mighty, Almighty,’ applicable ‘to any deity’], The everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.” (Christ is appropriately called “Father” from the standpoint of his becoming the second Adam—life-giver to the race— and “source of eternal salvation” (1 Cor. 15:47; Heb. 5:9). Christ is no longer a branch (receiver) but the “root” (giver of life) in the regeneration (Rev. 22:16; Matt. 19:28).
@Jack your well doesnt got this deep, if it did you would shake off the Platonic dogmas which inflect your mind and turn to the Living Word.

You do well to read, study this reply of Berean and learn what these things mean.

F2F
 

Jack

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Yes, Isaiah 9:6 gives our Savior the title, “The mighty God.” But the Jewish writers were not saying that the Messiah would literally be Jehovah. If judges of Israel were called “gods,” as in Ps. 82:1-7, what would be earthshaking about calling Jesus the “mighty God” (Hebrew, ‘El Gib-bohr’)? Notice, he is not called ‘El Shad-dai,’ a term exclusively applied to Jehovah. Further, “God” in the Isaiah text is the Hebrew EL, defined by Dr. Strong as “strength; as adj[ective] mighty; espec[ially] the Almighty (but used also of any deity).”2 The fact that the same word (EL) is used in Isa. 57:5 in describing idols shows indeed that it is a general term used to describe any mighty being and, hence, quite appropriately may be applied to our Savior, Jesus, in Isa. 9:6. The following sources offer additional comments on Isa. 9:6 and Ps. 82:1-7: The Catholic Encyclopedia states: “Even these exalted titles did not lead the Jews to recognize that the Saviour to come was to be none other than God Himself.”3 And the Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature, by McClintock and Strong, says: “Thus it appears that none of the passages cited from the Old Test[ament] in proof of the Trinity are conclusive. . . . We do not find in the Old Test[ament] clear or decided proof upon this subject.”

Isaiah 9:6 “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God [El, Strong’s, #410, ‘strength, mighty, Almighty,’ applicable ‘to any deity’], The everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.” (Christ is appropriately called “Father” from the standpoint of his becoming the second Adam—life-giver to the race— and “source of eternal salvation” (1 Cor. 15:47; Heb. 5:9). Christ is no longer a branch (receiver) but the “root” (giver of life) in the regeneration (Rev. 22:16; Matt. 19:28).
ONLY Jesus / God are "Mighty God" in the Bible. They are the same.
 

Jack

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dream on Jack.
I know, you deny the FACTS I posted. Typical JW!

You really need to stop worshiping your Governing Body and become a Bible believing Christian. Hell fire is dead ahead!
 

Jack

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@Jack your well doesnt got this deep, if it did you would shake off the Platonic dogmas which inflect your mind and turn to the Living Word.

You do well to read, study this reply of Berean and learn what these things mean.

F2F
I'm too busy studying the Christian Bible. What would you like to know about the Bible? Jesus is God and Hell Fire is everlasting maybe?
 

face2face

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Example?

I'm just a Bible believer. What are you?

Already has been. It's Jesus! God in the flesh.
No, you are not a Bible believer...you are the product of Pagan Christianity - you are one of the purest (Belligerent) in this forum.

I say these things to mean you can't be reasoned with because you are unreasonble in every way.

I think you know this to be true about your approach to the Word.

F2F