PROOF OCCULT=JW RELIGION

[PS95]

This is a LONG POST- Several pages. It is thorough & documented. Grab a coffee..
Many are familiar with the Jehovah's Witnesses's NWT bible version of John 1:1. ( The Word was a god)
However, many aren't aware that the Watchtower Society has lied & is lying to their members about their knowledge of a man involved in the Occult world who was a partaker in seances with spirit mediums. They have quoted him frequently to bolster their translation of John 1:1 and Matt 27. -----------JWs also have many many similarities in teachings with this Spiritist. ---------
I will prove this to you below.
Follow along in this sequence of events over the years that prove them to be lying about this demonic connection ---

First, a little important background-
Johannes Greber was born in Germany in 1874 and died in NJ, USA in 1944. He was once a Catholic priest. In Germany, he attended a seance with a parishoner where a spirit medium in a trance began speaking. He engaged Johannes Greber and he was communicating with the spirits through the medium. The spirits told Greber that the bible was very corrupted, mutilated actually, with paragraphs & chapters missing, as well as the spirits supplying Greber with new doctrines regarding God and His Son, etc.

After attending various seance meetings for the next two and a half years, Greber took leave from the Catholic Church.
It was at this time that Greber asked for help from Edward Niemann, a deep-trance medium. It was through Niemann that a spirit announced during a meeting to both Johannes and Elizabeth, a meetings member, that they were to be married. They were married in a couple of months. The spirit spoke through Niemann to perform the ceremony. Greber's new wife was also a spirit medium who often helped Greber write books as she was seeing large red letters passing in front of her. He and his wife immigrated to Teaneck, New Jersey in 1929 where he opened a spiritualist church with prayer and healing sessions.

Greber then authored a book in 1932 called, "Communication with the Spirit World: Its Laws and Its Purpose" which detailed his journey into spiritism, and depicted the doctrines and principles of the new beliefs revealed to him through his communications with the spirits.

*Jws have MANY similarities in doctrines with Mr. Greber's in his above book. I will post that list on this thread after I finish this topic.
Greber then began his own translation," The New Testament by Johannes Greber" in 1935, aided by his communications with the spirits from the seances & his spirit medium wife.
It was this work that the Watchtower Society used to support its own translation of selected verses in their New World Translation. The JW NWT bible version (New Testament only) was introduced in 1950.
Translators were kept anonymous
The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society knew full well that Johannes Greber was a spiritist back in 1955-- Yet they repeatedly quoted him to bolster their own translation... keep your eye on the dates.

Look at this scathing rebuke by the Watchtower of RCC & Mr Greber-
QUOTE~ 1955

– The Watchtower 1955- October 1 p. 603 par. 33 Part 3—What Do the Scriptures Say About “Survival After Death”?

" Is such official Catholic teaching as the above an impenetrable defense against the invasion of spiritism? No! It is an invitation to spiritism, and the conditions in Roman Catholic lands, such as Peru, Costa Rica, Cuba and Haiti, show Roman Catholicism to be no bulwark against this spreading peril. In such lands the Catholic people, even up to 90 per cent, mix spiritism or voodooism right in with Roman Catholicism, practicing both at the same time with no objection or penalty by the priests. It comes as no surprise that one Johannes Greber, a former Catholic clergyman, has become a spiritualist and has published the book entitled “Communication with the Spirit World, Its laws and Its Purpose.” (1932, Macoy Publishing Company, New York) In its Foreword he makes the typical misstatement: “The most significant spiritualistic book is the Bible; for its principal contents hinge upon the messages of the beyond to those existing in the present.”

And this one in 1956--
QUOTE~

The Watchtower 1956- February 15 pp. 110-111 pars. 10-11 Triumphing over Wicked Spirit Forces

Says Johannes Greber in the introduction of his translation of The New Testament, copyrighted in 1937: “I myself was a Catholic priest, and until I was forty-eight years old had never as much as believed in the possibility of communicating with the world of spirits. The day came, however, when I involuntarily took my first step toward such communication, and experienced things that shook me to the depths of my soul. . . . My experiences are related in a book that has appeared in both German and English and bears the title, Communication with the Spirit-World: Its Laws and Its Purpose.” (Page 15, ¶ 2, 3) In keeping with his Roman Catholic extraction Greber’s translation is bound with a gold-leaf cross on its stiff front cover. In the Foreword of his aforementioned book ex-priest Greber says: “The most significant spiritualistic book is the Bible.” Under this impression Greber endeavors to make his New Testament translation read very spiritualistic.

It would appear that the Watchtower Society rightfully, disapproves of Johannes Greber and his reliance on spirit mediums and his two books. Agree?

NOT SO FAST---- Fast fwd- 1962
This is the first time where the Watchtower used Johannes Greber in their publications in a POSITIVE LIGHT.
Now, they are actually using him to SUPPORT their Watchtower teachings & NWT.
Just a year earlier they were exposing him as a Spiritist admitting that he was Channelling Spirits to make his bible translation, very spiritualistic.
Now they are doing what they accused the Catholics of doing
QUOTE~
The Watchtower 1962- September 15, p 554, par. 5- "The Word - Who is He? According to John"

But most controversial of all is the following reading of John 1:1, 2: “The Word was in the beginning, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. This Word was in the beginning with God.” This reading is found in The New Testament in An Improved Version, published in London, England, in 1808. Similar is the reading by a former Roman Catholic priest: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. Note that what the Word is said to be is spelled without a capital initial letter, namely, “god.”
Footnote: The New Testament—A New Translation and Explanation Based on the Oldest Manuscripts, by Johannes Greber (a translation from German into English), edition of 1937, the front cover of this bound translation being stamped with a golden cross.

AND They didn't stop there.----

The Watchtower continuously quoted Johannes Greber to support their John 1:1 (a god) and others in the following Book publications. Notice the years are all AFTER they knew he was involved in the occult------
1965- QUOTE~

1965- Make Sure of All Things- under "Trinity', pg 489
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.
-The New Testament- ( a translation from German into English 1937), by Johannes Greber

AND Yet Again - 1971 QUOTE

A translation by a former Roman Catholic priest, Johannes Greber (1937 ed.) renders the second appearance of the word “god” in the sentence as “a god.” Aid To Bible Understanding. 1971 p. 1669

Again 1971-
This time it's to support- Matt 27:51-53

AID TO BIBLE UNDERSTANDING, p. 1134
Tombs Opened at Jesus Death
The translation by Johannes Greber (1937) of these verses reads as follows: “Tombs were laid open, and many bodies of those buried were tossed upright. In this posture they projected from the graves and were seen by many who passed by the place on their way back to the city.”

AGAIN 1975-

The Watchtower-1975- October 15 p. 640 Questions From Readers
Thus the translation by Johannes Greber (1937) renders these verses: “Tombs were laid open, and many bodies of those buried there were tossed upright. In this posture they projected from the graves and were seen by many who passed by the place on their way back to the city.”—Compare the New World Translation.

 

[PS95]

AGAIN 1976--

The Watchtower- 1976 Apr 15, p 231- Insight on the News
A report in the Bible, as translated by Johannes Greber, says that when Jesus died, “the earth quaked, and the rocks were shattered. Tombs were laid open, and many bodies of those buried there were tossed upright. In this posture they projected from the graves and were seen by many who passed by the place on their way back to the city.” Hence, rather than a resurrection, as some Bible translations imply, there appears to have been merely an exposure of the dead to observers, as in Guatemala.—Matt. 27:51-53.

Quote from book-Babylon The Great Has Fallen, God’s Kingdom Rules. 1963: p 605-606
"Because Great Babylon herself stands for the world empire of false religion with its priests clergymen, monks, nuns, astrologers, spiritists, sorcerers.

There are NUMEROUS quotes from the WTower (rightly) warning members against any form of the Occult.
It would be grounds for disfellowshipping and total shunning.
They are taught not to even touch something associated with the occult, such as Mr. Greber's BOOKS.
Let alone purchase them, read them, and believe and quote them.
For example, in their reference work
Insight on the Scriptures they say:

It, therefore, logically follows that any claimed communication ... [with spirits] ... must be from an evil source that stands in opposition to Jehovah God. The Bible clearly indicates that wicked spirits, demons, are this evil source.

Several former Jws and on the fence Jws began to question the Society in letters about quoting the Spiritist Greber
That likely spawned this- -

Questions From Readers The Watchtower 1983 April 1 p. 31
Why, in recent years, has The Watchtower not made use of the translation by the former Catholic priest, Johannes Greber?

This translation was used occasionally in support of renderings of Matthew 27:52, 53 and John 1:1, as given in the New World Translation and other authoritative Bible versions. But as indicated in a foreword to the 1980 edition of The New Testament by Johannes Greber, this translator relied on “God’s Spirit World” to clarify for him how he should translate difficult passages. It is stated: “His wife, a medium of God’s Spirit world was often instrumental in conveying the correct answers from God’s Messengers to Pastor Greber.” The Watchtower has deemed it improper to make use of a translation that has such a close rapport with spiritism. (Deuteronomy 18:10-12) The scholarship that forms the basis for the rendering of the above-cited texts in the New World Translation is sound and for this reason does not depend at all on Greber’s translation for authority. Nothing is lost, therefore, by ceasing to use his New Testament.

If you have read this you know that is a LIE & A HYPOCRITICAL LIE -They knew for at least 25 years!
See 1955 Quote~
Yet, they insisted on quoting the occult in their books and magazines.
and.. this doesn't end here. It keeps going..

The Johannes Greber Memorial Foundation provided a photo-copy of a letter from the Watchtower Society acknowledging receipt of not only several of his New Testaments, but also Greber’s book Communication with the Spirit World of God.
On December 20, 1980 The Watchtower sent a letter to The Johannes Greber Foundation in Teaneck NJ, thanking them for their brand spanking new copies of "Communication with the Spirit World of God" and "The New Testament by Johannes Greber" and in it they said they know the books are hard to come by, so could they please obtain a few more copies of "The New Testament by Johannes Greber"? ************Photo-copy of this letter is on post #21 below

Less than a year later-- ooops they dont know?!
In Sept 1981--
After that letter above was received by The Greber Foundation a Jw sent her own letter to the WatchTower asking if they could please help with how she could obtain a copy of Greber's New Testament-
The Watchtower replied with a wrong address in NY and said that they don't keep anything up to date for them. Sorry!

**I have copies of those two letters, and I also own 2 of the books where the above WT quotes are found.
Doctrines of demons. No wonder Jws live in fear of demons.
Due to pressure- In 1984 the Watchtower ceased from quoting Johannes Greber. The teachings, however are the same and the lies remain.

 

[PS95]

------------------------------------------------------------
Questions for Jehovah’s Witnesses

•Why would an organization that believes the Bible’s warnings about mediums, seances, and spiritism use a translation written by a spiritist to support its own Bible translation ? Why would the Watchtower Society knowingly embrace a translation of John 1:1 given by demonic spirits?

• Are doctrines of demons of Jehovah God? Was the "faithful slave" honest with you? Does God lie?

•Why would demons try to convince Greber that his beliefs were wrong, and convert him these doctrines, when Greber’s beliefs were those of apostate Christendom to begin with?

•Should you associate with an organization whose teachings agree with those taught by demons?

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Now, For a few others who are ALSO quoted by the Watchtower as support for John 1:1 " a god"

They are not without support for this translation, however, but let's take a closer look at the precedents for translating, “and the Word was a god.” Devil is in the details?
Johannes Greber's New Testament obviously set a precedent for the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and their rendering of John 1:1 is almost identical.

Continuing on with the precedents for translating John 1:1 “…and the Word was a god,”

2) We also find the Watchtower Society quoting on page 5 of The Word Who is He? According to John: “This reading is also found in the New Testament in an Improved Version, published in London, England in 1808.”
But, We are directed to a footnote which reads, “The title page reads ‘The New Testament in An Improved Version, upon the basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation with a Corrected Text, and Notes Critical and Explanatory. Published by a Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge and the Practice of Virtue, by the Distribution of Books—Unitarian.’”

Yes, the key word above is “Unitarian.” This is a teaching that Jesus was just an extraordinarily good man, nothing more.
Mr. Thomas Belsham, after Archbishop Newcome’s death, altered his text. He admitted to it. [See page 394, Manual of Biblical Bibliography.]

This altered text dishonoring Archbishop Newcome’s careful scholarship also provided a basis for the New World Translation’s “…and the Word was a god.” (see also the Kingdom Interlinear Translation, page 1160, 1969 ed.)
Why would the Watchtower use as their guide a cult denying the biblical Christ, and guilty of altering a reputable biblical text?
------------------

 

[PS95]

A 3RD precedent for translating John 1:1,”…and the Word was a god” comes from the
3) Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson. His translation actually reads “the LOGOS was God.” But he placed the words “a god” under “theos” in the Greek and English.

Mr. Wilson never studied biblical Greek in college. He was a follower of John Thomas, a proven false prophet by biblical definition, and the founder of the Christadelphians, a Christ-dishonoring cult.

Yes, the “precedents” for translating John 1:1 “…and the Word was a god” crumble away under close and honest scholarship.

Why would the Watchtower Society CHOOSE precedents that are false and even demonic? Why do they CHOOSE to ignore Greek Scholars who are reputable?



4) A Johnny come lately is- Jason BeDuhn- Northern Arizona University ( in his book, Truth in Translation) whom the Watchtower is tickled to quote for John 1:1. word was divine or a god. Mr Beduhn's book speaks about bias. Yet, he is not without bias himself. I spoke with him directly on CARM. He believes that the Word was an it. Here is a quote from him-

"How does God create in Genesis? He speaks words that make things come into existence. So the Word is God's creative power and plan and activity. It is not God himself, but it is not really totally separate from God either. It occupies a kind of ambiguous status."

BeDuhn is a nice man and there are plenty of debates online to read between him and others. Grammatically, it technically could be translated either way, and that's that, but. WHAT does that leave us with? Bias & context.
What is interesting is that if I think of the Word as an it- I would conclude that it, the Word was God. Go figure.
So, we need to look at context and I believe John 1:3 helps do that, as well as the rest of scripture. We can also look to Apostolic Father's writings where it's quoted often, and the context is clearly not " a god" or "divine". <-- Not possible.
We certainly dont have a True God and a false god.
Rev 5 we see God and the Lamb receiving worship from "Every creature on heaven, earth & under the earth."
That voids the Jw creature concept. Jws mix up the Word with role of Jesus while on earth.

I totally disagree with BeDuhn On Colossians in saying that 4x (others) is implied. No it certainly is not. That is utter bias. Yet, he had some seriously important criticisms against the NWT also.


Ok - if you made it this far- Congratulations
If you are a Jw and made it this far, I salute you, and ask you to please prayerfully question all things you have been taught. Do not be afraid- Just pray for His Truth.
Interesting side note- The Jws did worship Jesus until 1954.
If you are weary of Jws- print this out and show them. They need to break free from idol worship of men over them & see the light of Christ. Pray for them!
Please bump it often ? It is very important.

 

[PS95]

If you are a Jw and read this (which I doubt)
But just in case, Please know that there are people here who understand this mind control and the rote learning and the awful fear and we can help you to get through this. If you lose family- it will be ok too. You gain Christ, and He is worth everything. He sticks closer than a brother. Pr 18:24 He really does & He will free you!!! Only He can! He is faithful!

 

[Debp]

Thanks for posting the information. I can't read really long posts due to my eyes. But I did skim some of it.

 

[TLHKAJ]

This is good to know. My "gut" ...or the sense in my spirit ...that I always have had around JW and their teachings was "YUCK/cult." But I have never actually looked into what they believe in detail.

 

[PS95]

Thanks for posting the information. I can't read really long posts due to my eyes. But I did skim some of it.

I apologize for the length. Believe me, I know! I wanted it to be thorough. It can not be denied and is very disturbing. But it will not break through mind control.

 

[PS95]

This is good to know. My "gut" ...or the sense in my spirit ...that I always have had around JW and their teachings was "YUCK/cult." But I have never actually looked into what they believe in detail.

Avoid, TLHKAJ! I was raised in it so had no choice. I felt something was wrong too. It's about fear and control

 

[Debp]

Avoid, TLHKAJ! I was raised in it so had no choice. I felt something was wrong too. It's about fear and control

Wow... you being raised as a JW gives you more credibility in what you say.

 

[PS95]

Wow... you being raised as a JW gives you more credibility in what you say.

it should huh? ( but not for Jws- that's an excuse to hate me) I always document with their OWN WORDS.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Avoid, TLHKAJ! I was raised in it so had no choice. I felt something was wrong too. It's about fear and control

I believe you. I always have avoided their teachings ...like I said, it just didn't feel right (spiritual atmosphere around them). I'll try to read through more of your posts tomorrow and the following days.

 

[Jack]

This is good to know. My "gut" ...or the sense in my spirit ...that I always have had around JW and their teachings was "YUCK/cult." But I have never actually looked into what they believe in detail.

JW's twist nearly every verse in the Christian Bible to change the meaning. One JW here actually accused Jesus of Satanic doctrine by teaching Hell fire. Another here said, "Jesus is ONLY with JW's"!

 

[Debp]

Years ago I did some volunteer work with a pastor along with some other young people. He had a Jewish ministry. Before that he and his wife were missionaries in China and then in Thailand.

The pastor told us one time some JWs came to his door. He knew the Scriptures backwards and forwards, so they were no match for him. They finally left and never came to his house again.

 

[ElieG12]

A 12-year-old JW girl I know taught her Jewish teacher in front of her class that the Pharaoh at the time of the Exodus drowned in the waters along with his army.

He didn't know this because to know this detail you have to know different Bible passages that talk about this historical event.

After that, every time he told a Bible story to his students, he asked the girl if he was right.

 

[Jack]

A 12-year-old JW girl I know taught her Jewish teacher in front of her class that the Pharaoh at the time of the Exodus drowned in the waters along with his army.

He didn't know this because to know this detail you have to know different Bible passages that talk about this historical event.

After that, every time he told a Bible story to his students, he asked the girl if he was right.

Maybe God will pull her from the everlasting fire that Jesus warned us about.

 

[PS95]

You really are truly twisted, ElieG12.
Did the JW girl show him the verse in a seance through a spirit medium
(or did she simply show him a psalm in the bible?) ;)

Now that we know that you approve of the Watchtower's affiliation with the occult and their subsequent lying about it.. what is there to say to you?
Even THEY Finally admitted it was wrong and was against God 25 years later, and after being caught.

 

[PS95]

Do God's spirits lie?
Greber's spirits told him that the male/female reproduction process is so essential to the universe that even spirits reproduce by it.
So the spirits fornicate and reproduce? Didn't Jesus tell us there was no marriage in heaven and that we would be as the angels in the resurrection?
"For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven." Matt 22:30

 

[PS95]

The Johnannes Greber Foundation, which was based in New Jersey and was run by those who had known Pastor Greber, closed. His followers stated that it was his very spirit who implored them to do so ONLY after taking steps to have the original plates destroyed.
They were also attempting to stop any future printing or disbursement of his books. It was soon to be out of their protection due to the copyright expiring. They had much money to lose by closing and disbanding, but they were adamant that this was what he wanted and that their own personal lives had been shattered.

Johannes Greber died an unhappy, broken, disillusioned man, leaving behind a neurotic much younger wife and two deeply troubled sons involved in the occult. Nothing good came to any of his inner circle or family, only more questions shattered relationships, and deep sorrow in trying to integrate their experiences.

This is why it's so important to obey God. It's for our own welfare. Thank you, ABBA!

 

[PS95]

@Jack And your smokescreen does not explain why you attack our Bibles like Satan!

@Jack -- This thread explains it.
We aren't fighting flesh and blood.