Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven

[Seven of Nine]

Too bad we can't have a moratorium on Catholic bashing, along with threads protecting Trump

Unfortunately, Catholic bashing is common among some Protestants. It's sad.

 

[Philip James]

If you don't believe there is a judge, then how can the pardon stand????

There won't be anybody not believing in the Judge when they stand before Him..

And neither will anyone be able to argue with His judgements...

Peace!

 

[Brakelite]

Pope Francis Says Atheists Go to Heaven – Fiction! Summary of eRumor: Pope Francis said the traditional notion of God is outdated and it’s not necessary to believe in god to be a good person. The Truth: There’s no record of Pope Francis saying that the church is outdated, or that you don’t have to believe in god to be a good person

Being a good person has nothing to do with being saved.
However, I have no issue with Francis saying good people go to heaven. That is Catholic teaching. Francis is being a good Catholic. It isn't Christian or biblical teaching, but it's Catholic and Francis is being consistently Catholic.
But justification and sanctification to the Catholic mind are quite different concepts than what Protestants believe the Bible teaches. We come back to the farce of "Lutherans and Catholics together". As if prior to the 21st century Catholics and Lutherans simply misunderstood each other. Unfortunately some younger modern Protestants have little idea the significance of Luther's objections, and have been beguiled into believing that one or the other have changed their foundational beliefs and are somehow miraculously in harmony.
Both camps may use the same words and even quote the same Bible, but what they mean by those words and the way they understand what the Bible is saying is entirely fundamentally and theologically polar opposites.

 

[historyb]

However, I have no issue with Francis saying good people go to heaven. That is Catholic teaching. Francis is being a good Catholic. It isn't Christian or biblical teaching, but it's Catholic and Francis is being consistently Catholic.

That is a lie. One must be in a state of Grace, being a good person has nothing to do with it. I wish you evangelicals would stop lying about Catholic Christians just because you want to follow man

 

[charity]

Being a good person has nothing to do with being saved.
However, I have no issue with Francis saying good people go to heaven. That is Catholic teaching. Francis is being a good Catholic. It isn't Christian or biblical teaching, but it's Catholic and Francis is being consistently Catholic.
But justification and sanctification to the Catholic mind are quite different concepts than what Protestants believe the Bible teaches. We come back to the farce of "Lutherans and Catholics together". As if prior to the 21st century Catholics and Lutherans simply misunderstood each other. Unfortunately some younger modern Protestants have little idea the significance of Luther's objections, and have been beguiled into believing that one or the other have changed their foundational beliefs and are somehow miraculously in harmony.
Both camps may use the same words and even quote the same Bible, but what they mean by those words and the way they understand what the Bible is saying is entirely fundamentally and theologically polar opposites.

Hello @Backlit,

I agree that being a good person has nothing to do with salvation. Thank you for this information. I have very little understanding of the Roman Catholic Church or it's teaching, or that of any other denomination for that matter. I am only interested in what the Bible has to teach me of the Lord Jesus Christ, and of God's plan and purpose fulfilled in and through Him.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Renniks]

Rom 2:14-16


For when the Gentiles who do not have the law by nature observe the prescriptions of the law, they are a law for themselves even though they do not have the law.

They show that the demands of the law are written in their hearts, 6 while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even defend them

on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge people's hidden works through Christ Jesus.

Peace!

Judging is one thing and telling the truth is another. Why would you not tell them the truth? They will go to hell if you tell them being atheist will get you there.

 

[aspen]

Hello @Backlit,

I agree that being a good person has nothing to do with salvation. Thank you for this information. I have very little understanding of the Roman Catholic Church or it's teaching, or that of any other denomination for that matter. I am only interested in what the Bible has to teach me of the Lord Jesus Christ, and of God's plan and purpose fulfilled in and through Him.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Make sure you always go to a person critical of the church you have questions about!

 

[aspen]

It is "Pope Francis bashing" and rightly so. He is a traitor to the Catholic Church and to Christianity, but you have no objection to his treason. Every time he opens his mouth publicly, he puts his foot in it. That is shameful for one who claims to be a pope.

why do you care what a person in a church you hate says or doesn't say?

 

[Philip James]

I agree that being a good person has nothing to do with salvation.

Hmmm..

Ironic that you would say that with the name of 'charity'. ;)

" Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but 'in body' not 'in heart."

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

Peace!

 

[charity]

Hmmm..

Ironic that you would say that with the name of 'charity'. ;)

" Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but 'in body' not 'in heart."

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

Peace!

Hello @Philip James,

I think you know what I intended by those words. The love that God requires is that which is born of His Spirit, the fruit of His indwelling, a love that is manifested 'in deed and in truth'.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Seven of Nine]

why do you care what a person in a church you hate says or doesn't say?

There is something very important for you to remember when you read unchristian remarks about Pope Francis from other Christians and that is: (1) Anyone who hates a brother or a sister is a murderer, (2) Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or a sister is a liar, (3) Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks and out of the abundance of the heart come evil thoughts, such as slander and false testimony, (4) the acts of the flesh include hatred, discord, dissensions, and fits of rage, and (5) Our Lord and Savior said, "By their fruits you will recognize them."

It's one thing to criticize the Pope for his controversial remarks and disagree with him, but it's quite another to accuse him of committing treason and accuse him of being a traitor to the Catholic Church and Christianity. Christians are commanded to not let any unwholesome talk come out of their mouths, to love their neighbor as themselves, and to treat other people the way they want to be treated. Remember to examine their fruit.

 

[Enoch111]

why do you care what a person in a church you hate says or doesn't say?

The pope has a huge influence on general populations as well as craven politicians. And non-Catholics do not hate the RCC or its adherents. Just the false doctrines.

Jesus hated but the deeds and the doctrine of the Nicolaitans.

 

[historyb]

Of course you guys hate, you mask it in self righteous "false doctrine" when you don't even know and don't understand. Your guys poisonous hatred go so deep as to completely reject and hate all Traditional Christians because you don't want to understand and are scared of anything that may challenge your sacred cows. This place is vitriol and poison to any Christians who don't tow your all lines.

 

[bukka]

I think that Pope Francis statements must be read in light of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Sections 1790-1794:

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.
1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man "takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin."59 In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.
1792 Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one's passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church's authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct.
1793 If - on the contrary - the ignorance is invincible, or the moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him. It remains no less an evil, a privation, a disorder. One must therefore work to correct the errors of moral conscience.
1794 A good and pure conscience is enlightened by true faith, for charity proceeds at the same time "from a pure heart and a good conscience and sincere faith."60
The more a correct conscience prevails, the more do persons and groups turn aside from blind choice and try to be guided by objective standards of moral conduct.61

One of Pope Francis' statements: “You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience.

“Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience.”

I think that Pope Francis is simply following the authoritative teaching of his church. If the atheist dies in a state where the conscience is invincibly ignorant in respect to God and a morality based on faith, the moral evil cannot be imputed to him.

As a non-Catholic, I reject much of Rome's teaching, but I must say that God is sovereign, and that we are saved by God's grace in Christ. God saves whomever he wills.

If God wishes to save anyone, he has the right and power to do so. No one, in the final sense is righteous before him and so everyone has, to a certain point, the opportunity of God's salvation. As Christians, let us be diligent to make our calling and election secure (2 Peter 1:10). We have an advantage over an atheist. We have Christ for our salvation.

 

[Yan]

God can chose people to go to heaven, those atheis that lived righteously to help other people can be saved too. Because God already finished his work since 2000 years ago, and he can decide which people goes to heaven. The bad news is, the church people itself who commit many sins because they know the law and they aware of the law that makes them to be a sinner, sometimes people who were a christian since a younger age can be more bigot and blind, even some of them make the burnt offerrings that hurt our God.
Because if we lived out of the law we had no conscious of the sins, but when we read the bible and know the charge of the law then we had become sinner. If our consciousness of sins become active inside our mind then it makes the opportunity to the devil to dominate our daily lives that leads into temptation in every aspect of our lives (Romans 7:13-23). That's why many people who called them selves as the servant of God sometimes lived contradict with the bible and put aside the love of thy neighbours.

Isaiah 65:1 (UKJV)
I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

Romans 10:20-21
20. But Isaiah is very bold, and says, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21. But to Israel he says, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

 

[Seven of Nine]

I think that Pope Francis statements must be read in light of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Sections 1790-1794:

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.
1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man "takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin."59 In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.
1792 Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one's passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church's authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct.
1793 If - on the contrary - the ignorance is invincible, or the moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him. It remains no less an evil, a privation, a disorder. One must therefore work to correct the errors of moral conscience.
1794 A good and pure conscience is enlightened by true faith, for charity proceeds at the same time "from a pure heart and a good conscience and sincere faith."60
The more a correct conscience prevails, the more do persons and groups turn aside from blind choice and try to be guided by objective standards of moral conduct.61

I think that Pope Francis is simply following the authoritative teaching of his church. If the atheist dies in a state where the conscience is invincibly ignorant in respect to God and a morality based on faith, the moral evil cannot be imputed to him.

As a non-Catholic, I reject much of Rome's teaching, but I must say that God is sovereign, and that we are saved by God's grace in Christ. God saves whomever he wills.

If God wishes to save anyone, he has the right and power to do so. No one, in the final sense is righteous before him and so everyone has, to a certain point, the opportunity of God's salvation. As Christians, let us be diligent to make our calling and election secure (2 Peter 1:10). We have an advantage over an atheist. We have Christ for our salvation.

Thank you for posting this important information, bukka. I doubt many non-Catholic Christians who gleefully jumped on the "bash Catholics" bandwagon know anything about the Catechism of the Catholic Church or even bothered to examine any of the Catholic doctrines online.

 

[Brakelite]

That is a lie. One must be in a state of Grace, being a good person has nothing to do with it. I wish you evangelicals would stop lying about Catholic Christians just because you want to follow man

I'm lying in stating Francis is being consistently Catholic? Or...
I'm lying about the Catholic teaching that one must be good in order to be saved?

 

[historyb]

I'm lying in stating Francis is being consistently Catholic? Or...
I'm lying about the Catholic teaching that one must be good in order to be saved?

Both

 

[Brakelite]

Both

So Francis isn't consistently Catholic? And you're upset because I believe he is?
And I'm lying about the Catholic teaching that one must be good to be saved? You're saying one doesn't have to be good to be saved? Can you please explain then what the Catholic teaching is then for justification? And how one becomes a Christian or takes a hold of justification for himself?. And how one is sanctified? You were extremely adamant regarding my "hatred' and my 'lying'. So let's put that to the test.

 

[April_Rose]

Isn't this old news? Anyways,.. anytime on here I state my opinion I get attacked so I would rather stay quiet on this one.