Please Argue with me about Head Coverings

[quietthinker]

When I get serious in prayer,

ohhh, so their are times you don't get serious in prayer Wynona? :)

 

[quietthinker]

Odd experience and a little ironic, but I'll tell you what, church grandmothers love me.

there ya go Fluffy.....when grandmothers love you, who can argue with that :)

 

[Lambano]

ohhh, so their are times you don't get serious in prayer Wynona? :)

Hey, there’s something to be said for casual prayer.

 

[Wynona]

ohhh, so their are times you don't get serious in prayer Wynona? :)

:) Yes. Sometimes I simply talk to the Lord in a conversational way. It's one of those things I didn't know I needed till I started doing it.

Now I deal with loneliness a Iot better.

 

[TEXBOW]

:) Yes. Sometimes I simply talk to the Lord in a conversational way. It's one of those things I didn't know I needed till I started doing it.

Now I deal with loneliness a Iot better.

Your smile looks contagious to me, no need to be lonely.

 

[quietthinker]

Hey, there’s something to be said for casual prayer.

'neither in Jerusalem or on this mountain' Jesus said ... in other words, without formality ......'Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth. John 4:21-24

 

[Cooper]

:) Yes. Sometimes I simply talk to the Lord in a conversational way. It's one of those things I didn't know I needed till I started doing it.

Now I deal with loneliness a Iot better.

Paul said to pray continually 1 Thessalonians 5:17 meaning to have Jesus in our heart and mind the whole time, He with us, and we, with Him. Blessings to you.
.

 

[Nancy]

Repent & wear head covering so as to stop feeling guilty.

 

[Lambano]

'neither in Jerusalem or on this mountain' Jesus said ... in other words, without formality ......'Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth. John 4:21-24

As I said earlier, prayer should be as natural as breathing.

 

[Nancy]

Head covering, prayer shawl...2 different animals. Sorry if someone already pointed that out.
Going to to CC as a child yes, the girls had to wear a hat or covering of some sort (even though all of us had short hair) Once I stopped going, never gave it another thought.

Now all these years later, of course I realize the reason they do that.

Prayer shawl. Now this is something that spoke to me a few years ago, think I was watching an old Jesus movie and as He always found a quiet place for His most fervent prayers...I saw the actor playing Him take a shawl and pull it down over his head to his eyes.
The next day I decided to find an appropriate piece of cloth and do the same. It was awesomely weird? I get distracted easily with 3 small dogs and living in the city. Always noise so...this makeshift shawl DID help me to keep my mind on Him rather than drift off, and the noises did not bother me like they normally do. And, it is only when in deep fervent prayer ( @Wynona :) )

 

[DuckieLady]

Head covering, prayer shawl...2 different animals. Sorry if someone already pointed that out.
Going to to CC as a child yes, the girls had to wear a hat or covering of some sort (even though all of us had short hair) Once I stopped going, never gave it another thought.

Now all these years later, of course I realize the reason they do that.

Prayer shawl. Now this is something that spoke to me a few years ago, think I was watching an old Jesus movie and as He always found a quiet place for His most fervent prayers...I saw the actor playing Him take a shawl and pull it down over his head to his eyes.
The next day I decided to find an appropriate piece of cloth and do the same. It was awesomely weird? I get distracted easily with 3 small dogs and living in the city. Always noise so...this makeshift shawl DID help me to keep my mind on Him rather than drift off, and the noises did not bother me like they normally do. And, it is only when in deep fervent prayer ( @Wynona :) )

I can see that. I didn't have a covering on hand last night, but I had a wool or alpaca (cant tell) shawl/pashmina. I can't say that my prayer was deeper, but it was cozy.

I decided to not wear a covering full time, but just when praying and prophesying.

I, too, am a quick hourly prayer, like others. But I am also considering my own as being passive and quick.

The Bible talks a lot on prayer. They said of Daniel "he still prays three hours a day" and Jesus got up while it was still dark. Now there's little ones everywhere in between, that's fine.

But deep prayer seems to be a thing of meeting with God and not a passive experience, which I am guilty of because for some reason I came up with the idea I am more busy than Martin Luther.

 

[ScottA]

Okay...now I see what you are getting at.

Just as the man portrays Christ in his roll as husband, and priests are men to portray God as male, etc., head coverings are or I should say were, to portray a godly women under the will of her Father in heaven and/or her husband whom is Christ. It is a practice that was for a time, just as the law was for a time...not to be looked at as what is or was necessary in practice, but rather in principle.

It is this practice-verses-principle that gives you your answer: If it was to be a practice forever, would not a man whom is among those called to be the bride of Christ also need to wear a head covering? And the answer is, No, because the Bridegroom has come into his bride, to those whom have made themselves ready. The time of practicing is long since past.

There should be no debate here.

If you have Christ, you have your covering.

 

[Nancy]

I can see that. I didn't have a covering on hand last night, but I had a wool or alpaca (cant tell) shawl/pashmina. I can't say that my prayer was deeper, but it was cozy.

I decided to not wear a covering full time, but just when praying and prophesying.

I, too, am a quick hourly prayer, like others. But I am also considering my own as being passive and quick.

The Bible talks a lot on prayer. They said of Daniel "he still prays three hours a day" and Jesus got up while it was still dark. Now there's little ones everywhere in between, that's fine.

But deep prayer seems to be a thing of meeting with God and not a passive experience, which I am guilty of because for some reason I came up with the idea I am more busy than Martin Luther.

Yeah, there is sure a big difference in fervent prayer and prayers of the moment I think. Fervent prayer seems to be put on my heart fully but, not often enough IMHO. Then again, it is God who puts these burdens on our hearts TO intercede for others. Those are the prayers I crave to get into deeply. I don't say the shawl or covering will make our prayers deeper, but it does help me with concentration :)

 

[Lambano]

Head covering, prayer shawl...2 different animals. Sorry if someone already pointed that out.
Going to to CC as a child yes, the girls had to wear a hat or covering of some sort (even though all of us had short hair) Once I stopped going, never gave it another thought.

Now all these years later, of course I realize the reason they do that.

Prayer shawl. Now this is something that spoke to me a few years ago, think I was watching an old Jesus movie and as He always found a quiet place for His most fervent prayers...I saw the actor playing Him take a shawl and pull it down over his head to his eyes.
The next day I decided to find an appropriate piece of cloth and do the same. It was awesomely weird? I get distracted easily with 3 small dogs and living in the city. Always noise so...this makeshift shawl DID help me to keep my mind on Him rather than drift off, and the noises did not bother me like they normally do. And, it is only when in deep fervent prayer ( @Wynona :) )

VERY cool, Nancy. (Although I will say that drifting off to sleep during prayer can be such a peaceful experience.)

Our church has a group of ladies who are highly skilled knitters. Their ministry is knitting prayer shawls for folks who are going through a really hard time. Their work is beautiful and infused with love.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Right, the reasoning Paul gives has nothing to do with prostitution - it has to do with the order of headship, and the last line "because of the angels" eliminates the possibility of it being for a culture or a time.

Is it coincidence that the doing away with the covering came about the same time as feminism and rebellion against Gods natural order of headship and family principles? Probably not.

So…women should wear a cloth on their heads because…of what women did with fallen angels? So…although your sins are forgiven, you should cover your head because of what other women did long ago?
Do I have the reasoning right…?
So it’s so fallen angels will not see your beauty…?
I read they were being kept under chains, the angels who did that. So it’s so you will not tempt other angels to do that…?
I don’t know if I understand the thought right…?

 

[DuckieLady]

So…women should wear a cloth on their heads because…of what women did with fallen angels? So…although your sins are forgiven, you should cover your head because of what other women did long ago?
Do I have the reasoning right…?
So it’s so fallen angels will not see your beauty…?
I read they were being kept under chains, the angels who did that. So it’s so you will not tempt other angels to do that…?
I don’t know if I understand the thought right…?

No, that is an idea people have but technically it isn't scriptural.

 

[DuckieLady]

@stunnedbygrace I have to take off for a bit but I think I explained it on page 4, I think #72

 

[amadeus]

I can see that but I have trouble.

1 Cor 11:5
But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved.

And it says to pray unceasingly, but Moses removed his covering before coming to God, because it is a shame for man to be covered. But he wasn't at a church, he was on a mountain...

Aha, but where is the Church or a church? Must it be in a building, which men have built? What if this defines a church, that is God's church or Church?

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Matt 18:20

In the 1980's my job transferred me from the Merced CA office to the Sunnyvale CA office. We then found a Hispanic Apostolic Church to attend. They held regular services in both Spanish and English. During our short initial discussion with the pastor, he advised that female members must wear something on their heads for any regular church service. He headed us off at the pass advising that he knew all of the arguments and scriptures against requiring such coverings. He said that nonetheless it was required. My wife agreed with the terms, since she was the one, who would have to comply. A hat was good, but a simple handkerchief or scarf on top of her hair was acceptable. It was the only place we ever attended where such a covering was mandatory for members.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

@stunnedbygrace I have to take off for a bit but I think I explained it on page 4, I think #72

Okay, I read it. I think you should follow your conscience. I don’t want to use my freedom to talk you out of your own conscience, because if you think something is sin and you do it anyway, then it is sin for you. So if your conscience says you must do, you should.

 

[amadeus]

...
Sorry I forgot to answer. It's almost to the middle of my back.

From the time we joined the UPC in 1976, my wife stopped cutting her hair. It grew to near her knees in the back. Neither of us had ever read the Bible and had only Catholic backgrounds so we went along with what the pastor taught there... In the years that followed there in that assembly and in others where we attended over the years, we let her hair grow. I loved the long hair and she loved to please me as well as God. She did trim the split ends of the hair but never more than a few inches at any time.

She even today keeps the long hair, but has cut it a bit shorter because of severe arthritis making it difficult and even painful to wash and comb the extremely long hair she once had. But... no more hats or other artificial coverings after that first assembly back in the 1970s. The hair itself remains as her covering and glory as well as mine!