Picture of God

[ewq1938]

Careful. There would be no hell if Satan was God.

No, everything would be hell if satan was god.

 

[Truth7t7]

God does not need the death of Jesus or anybody to forgive. God forgives because that is what love does.
Jesus came to reveal God's nature/character and we couldn't bear it....we killed him......and God knew it was going to happen but he came anyway. He even told us ahead of time through the Prophets this would happen .....and we read it, turn it around like good pagans and make out as if God only forgives when there is death. What a travesty!

Your theology is "Morbid"!

John 1:29KJV
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1 John 2:1-2KJV
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[EloyCraft]

No, everything would be hell if satan was god.

Yeah. It's one of those non possible things like a square circle. Not worth our precious energy.

 

[Truth7t7]

We assume God creates a lake of fire because scripture is interpreted through the lens of human revenge......not the revelation of God in Jesus.

Have you considered the lake of fire which embraces the whole world at the given time is man made?

Revelation 20:7-10 speaks of an attempt to take the New Jerusalem by the resurrected wicked. Is it supposed this attack will be with bows and arrows?....no no, it'll likely be with highly advanced nuclear technology and in the process destroy themselves and the planet.....it'll become a lake of fire.

2 Peter 3:7 'By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly'.

Your teachings of Annihilation isn't found in scripture, they are found in the teachings of Jehovahs Witnesses and 7th Day Adventism

 

[ewq1938]

Your teachings of Annihilation isn't found in scripture

Actually it comes directly from scripture.


Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

A lot of negative things will not exist in the future.

Wiping tears away means no more tears. Tears will not exist.
There shall be no more death. Death will not exist.
There shall be no more sorrow. Sorrow will not exist.
There shall be no more crying. Crying will not exist.
There shall be no more pain. Pain will not exist.

"for the former things are passed away." That means they are gone, gone everywhere, gone forever. If those things existed anywhere then the scripture would be lying.



Tears, death, sorrow, crying and pain will be Annihilated and shall never again exist. Is it such a stretch that the unsaved wicked people will also be Annihilated? Scripture over and over promises that they shall be Annihilated. Believe what scripture says and reject false doctrines that teach otherwise.



John_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life ; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

"shall not see life" means will not be alive.

Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell .

Being destroyed means they are Annihilated.

Psalms 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Perishing and being burned and being consumed into smoke means they are Annihilated.


This is just a small offering of what the bible actually teaches on this subject.



The results of decades of bible study led me to understand that Annihilation is the correct doctrine for most that are cast into the lake of fire. There *might* be an exception regarding the beast, false prophet and the devil but that is based on one single verse with a high likelihood of a figure of speech that does not mean literally forever. There are also two verses that say the devil will be destroyed and no longer exist so those need to be taken in consideration.


The case for eternal torture is weak, and comparable to one grain of sand versus the case for Annihilation which is comparable to all the rest of the grains of sand not only on the Earth but on every planet in the Universe. That is a vast difference between the biblical support for eternal torture versus the biblical support for Annihilation.


the biblical support for eternal torture the biblical support for Annihilation


I rest my case.

 

[quietthinker]

Your teachings of Annihilation isn't found in scripture, they are found in the teachings of Jehovahs Witnesses and 7th Day Adventism

of a truth, the concept of eternal torture does not emanate from the heart of God......it is born in the heart of evil.

 

[Brakelite]

Your teachings of Annihilation isn't found in scripture,

I hope you don't make a habit of stating such categorical statements without any checking if they are actually true.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I almost chuckle when I hear our more Reformed brethren say a man must be spiritually regenerated to understand the Gospel, when "the Gospel" we hear preached is "believe in Jesus Christ or this God who so loves The World is going to burn you forever and ever and ever". What's so spiritual and hard to understand about that message? An appeal to self-preservation is about as Fleshy a message as you can get.

But I have to ask then, this miserable picture of God - what is it rooted in?

It is rooted in wanting attention, praise, adoration, power and control. But the tactics are covert, until you see the tactics more clearly. Subtle and crafty does not equal intelligent.

 

[Truth7t7]

of a truth, the concept of eternal torture does not emanate from the heart of God......it is born in the heart of evil.

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Isaiah 66:24KJV
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

 

[amadeus]

It's how one reads, not what one reads. How one hears/reads determines everything. It was not for no reason Jesus repeatedly stated 'if you have ears to hear then hear'

"And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." Matt 13:10-15

 

[Truth7t7]

I hope you don't make a habit of stating such categorical statements without any checking if they are actually true.

"Annihilationism", the false teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and 7th Day Adventist

 

[ewq1938]

"Annihilationism", the false teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and 7th Day Adventist

No, it's from the bible:

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

A lot of negative things will not exist in the future.

Wiping tears away means no more tears. Tears will not exist.
There shall be no more death. Death will not exist.
There shall be no more sorrow. Sorrow will not exist.
There shall be no more crying. Crying will not exist.
There shall be no more pain. Pain will not exist.

"for the former things are passed away." That means they are gone, gone everywhere, gone forever. If those things existed anywhere then the scripture would be lying.



Tears, death, sorrow, crying and pain will be Annihilated and shall never again exist. Is it such a stretch that the unsaved wicked people will also be Annihilated? Scripture over and over promises that they shall be Annihilated. Believe what scripture says and reject false doctrines that teach otherwise.



John_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

"shall not see life" means will not be alive.

Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell .

Being destroyed means they are Annihilated.

Psalms 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Perishing and being burned and being consumed into smoke means they are Annihilated.


This is just a small offering of what the bible actually teaches on this subject.



The results of decades of bible study led me to understand that Annihilation is the correct doctrine for most that are cast into the lake of fire. There *might* be an exception regarding the beast, false prophet and the devil but that is based on one single verse with a high likelihood of a figure of speech that does not mean literally forever. There are also two verses that say the devil will be destroyed and no longer exist so those need to be taken in consideration.


The case for eternal torture is weak, and comparable to one grain of sand versus the case for Annihilation which is comparable to all the rest of the grains of sand not only on the Earth but on every planet in the Universe. That is a vast difference between the biblical support for eternal torture versus the biblical support for Annihilation.


the biblical support for eternal torture-------------------------------------------the biblical support for Annihilation


I rest my case.

 

[Truth7t7]

No, it's from the bible:

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

A lot of negative things will not exist in the future.

Wiping tears away means no more tears. Tears will not exist.
There shall be no more death. Death will not exist.
There shall be no more sorrow. Sorrow will not exist.
There shall be no more crying. Crying will not exist.
There shall be no more pain. Pain will not exist.

"for the former things are passed away." That means they are gone, gone everywhere, gone forever. If those things existed anywhere then the scripture would be lying.



Tears, death, sorrow, crying and pain will be Annihilated and shall never again exist. Is it such a stretch that the unsaved wicked people will also be Annihilated? Scripture over and over promises that they shall be Annihilated. Believe what scripture says and reject false doctrines that teach otherwise.



John_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

"shall not see life" means will not be alive.

Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell .

Being destroyed means they are Annihilated.

Psalms 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Perishing and being burned and being consumed into smoke means they are Annihilated.


This is just a small offering of what the bible actually teaches on this subject.



The results of decades of bible study led me to understand that Annihilation is the correct doctrine for most that are cast into the lake of fire. There *might* be an exception regarding the beast, false prophet and the devil but that is based on one single verse with a high likelihood of a figure of speech that does not mean literally forever. There are also two verses that say the devil will be destroyed and no longer exist so those need to be taken in consideration.


The case for eternal torture is weak, and comparable to one grain of sand versus the case for Annihilation which is comparable to all the rest of the grains of sand not only on the Earth but on every planet in the Universe. That is a vast difference between the biblical support for eternal torture versus the biblical support for Annihilation.


the biblical support for eternal torture-------------------------------------------the biblical support for Annihilation


I rest my case.

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Isaiah 66:24KJV
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

 

[ewq1938]

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Isaiah 66:24KJV
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Neither supports eternal torture, which was invented by Roman Catholic Jesuit priests.

 

[Timtofly]

God does not need the death of Jesus or anybody to forgive. God forgives because that is what love does.
Jesus came to reveal God's nature/character and we couldn't bear it....we killed him......and God knew it was going to happen but he came anyway. He even told us ahead of time through the Prophets this would happen .....and we read it, turn it around like good pagans and make out as if God only forgives when there is death. What a travesty!

God forgives those who ask forgiveness, even the wicked. Many people can still end up in sheol separated from God, and forgiven. What they did not do is accept the Atonement. God Himself was the Atonement. That was already a done deal, even before Genesis 1:1.

Revelation 20:7-10 speaks of an attempt to take the New Jerusalem by the resurrected wicked. Is it supposed this attack will be with bows and arrows?....no no, it'll likely be with highly advanced nuclear technology and in the process destroy themselves and the planet.....it'll become a lake of fire.

This is even further from the truth than even Amil imagination of human opinion. The LOF already existed 1,000 years prior to the point a huge protest marched on Jerusalem of current existence. The New Jerusalem will not happen until after Jesus hands back the kingdom. Revelation 20:9 happens while Jesus is still the ruler on earth, in Jerusalem. God sends the fire from heaven to protect Jerusalem and all there including Jesus the Prince.

 

[Brakelite]

Your teachings of Annihilation isn't found in scripture

As far as you have seen obviously. Would you like to see?

 

[Truth7t7]

As far as you have seen obviously. Would you like to see?

Eternal Torment Of The Wicked Is God's Written Truth, Read It Again

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Isaiah 66:24KJV
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

 

[quietthinker]

Eternal Torment Of The Wicked Is God's Written Truth, Read It Again

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Isaiah 66:24KJV
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Are the wicked going to be carcasses or are they being tormented? .....or are carcasses conscious of torment?

 

[ewq1938]

Are the wicked going to be carcasses or are they being tormented? .....or are carcasses conscious of torment?

The worm doesn't die. He is confused because he thinks the carcass of the dead people don't die but they are already dead since the bodies are dead carcasses.

 

[quietthinker]

The worm doesn't die. He is confused because he thinks the carcass of the dead people don't die but they are already dead since the bodies are dead carcasses.

Without factoring Hebrew idiom one inevitably violates the character of God. God is presented as doing unspeakably evil things.

If the English expression 'get off your high horse' is used, it is neither talking about horses or their height......and so it is with idiomatic expressions used by the Hebrews.