Pay Your Tithe OR Spend Eternity In Hell?

[jiggyfly]

I for one teach on tithing once or so a year. I never take up an offering after I have taught always before. I agree that there are entirely too many that try to use the Gospel to milk people for money. It is Biblical for ministry people to draw a salary from the ministry however. As for supporting a man of God I strongly disagree that you won't go to hell for not supporting one. However because of a hardened heart at one you just might.

Are you familiar with the law on tithing? How do you teach a person should tithe and to whom a person should tithe to?

For those of you who say that you should not tithe to recieve a blessing... Mike Murdock says he wrote a song for you, "How dumb thou art. How dumb thou art..."

I don't know how many have heard of Mike Murdock--the wisdom preacher, but he teaches heavily on prosperity, with many testimonies and scripture to back him up. But he insists that when you pay tithes and offering, you should expect something in return. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with him. I'm just saying, he's a very credible preacher who is adamant about giving with "expectancy". ...So, I don't know what to think about this.

Funny thing about prosperity preachers is that they are to be the recipients of your giving. "The Lord said if you will send me a thousand dollars He will bless you"

Here's a couple of nice little songs.

http://www.youtube.c...rom=PL&index=22

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

When someone insists you must tithe, they are usually the ones who will receive it.

When someone insists you must tithe , tell them you will mail it to the church across town. Observe their reaction.

Years ago I attended a small church that never mentioned tithing. Yet $11,000 was donated every year, they paid the light bill and gave away $6,000 of the remainder.

Most church groups need money for buildings and salaries , it is not a lot of money when divided up among the congregation. The members should pay. But read the financial statements of the church and make sure the money is being used for necessary expenses, not extravagant non-church items.

 

[religusnut]

Are you familiar with the law on tithing? How do you teach a person should tithe and to whom a person should tithe to?

The tithe goes to the local Church. This is where the Church finances to operate should come from.

Funny thing about prosperity preachers is that they are to be the recipients of your giving. "The Lord said if you will send me a thousand dollars He will bless you"

Hers a couple of nice little songs.

http://www.youtube.c...rom=PL&index=22

I disagree with most of the teachings of the "Prosperity Gospel" It has enough truth mingled in with it that sounds good to many but is still not true.

A tithe should be 10% and should be the first 10%. The first blesses the rest.

A person should give God the first 10%. then save the second 10% for him/herself. Then use the balance for what ever needs to be paid.

People that promise you anything if you give them money are somebody to be wary of.
Truth is however if you give you will get. That is one of the universal laws of the universe. That applies even to a person that does not know God. it is called retroprosity.

The Bible also says give and it shall be given pressed down shaken together and running over shall men give unto your bosom.



In Malachi chapt 3 the bible teaches that those that do not tithe are God Robbers. Then it goes on and says that if they do tithe that He will open the windows of heaven and give them a blessing that they can not stand. I know that I started tithing back in the 1990's and I have been blessed in ways that one can only imagine financially ever since.

I agree that the TV Evangelists have taken millions for a ride on this sort of stuff. Truth of the matter is though the local Church that one attends should be where the tithe goes NOT the TV Evangelist. If people tithed properly and if the churches were run properly there would be no need for government interference in the lives of the communities because the churches could fulfill their purpose of taking care of the widows and orphans and those that were too sorry to work would have to get a job.

 

[jiggyfly]

I disagree with most of the teachings of the "Prosperity Gospel" It has enough truth mingled in with it that sounds good to many but is still not true.

A tithe should be 10% and should be the first 10%. The first blesses the rest.

A person should give God the first 10%. then save the second 10% for him/herself. Then use the balance for what ever needs to be paid.

People that promise you anything if you give them money are somebody to be wary of.
Truth is however if you give you will get. That is one of the universal laws of the universe. That applies even to a person that does not know God. it is called retroprosity.

The Bible also says give and it shall be given pressed down shaken together and running over shall men give unto your bosom.



In Malachi chapt 3 the bible teaches that those that do not tithe are God Robbers. Then it goes on and says that if they do tithe that He will open the windows of heaven and give them a blessing that they can not stand. I know that I started tithing back in the 1990's and I have been blessed in ways that one can only imagine financially ever since.

I agree that the TV Evangelists have taken millions for a ride on this sort of stuff. Truth of the matter is though the local Church that one attends should be where the tithe goes NOT the TV Evangelist. If people tithed properly and if the churches were run properly there would be no need for government interference in the lives of the communities because the churches could fulfill their purpose of taking care of the widows and orphans and those that were too sorry to work would have to get a job.

Couple of questions, what does giving have to do with tithing if the tithe is owed to God? Do you give your mortgage and utilities or pay your mortgage and utilities?

What does Malachi passage have to do with the new covenant church?

Are you familiar with the law on old covenant tithing?

 

[aspen]

I have had to make some hard choices about tithing as a Catholic, in view of the recent sexual abuse scandal in my church. It is my obligation to support the sex abuse victims, ministries of the church, and social ministries in the community, directly. I can no longer simply put my money in the basket on Sunday because I refuse to get in the way of God's judgment on my diocese and the hierarchy. If God wants us to lose everything so be it - small price to pay for priest abuse and laity complacency.

 

[rockytopva]

I have had to make some hard choices about tithing as a Catholic, in view of the recent sexual abuse scandal in my church. It is my obligation to support the sex abuse victims, ministries of the church, and social ministries in the community, directly. I can no longer simply put my money in the basket on Sunday because I refuse to get in the way of God's judgment on my diocese and the hierarchy. If God wants us to lose everything so be it - small price to pay for priest abuse and laity complacency.

Aspen... I did the series on the seven church ages (C'Ages) and tried not to justify on church over the other. So I am glad you are wise enough to see the issues in your church and the prayer on how to operate inside the church that God has called you in.

Tithing... Tithing is old testament law...

Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. - Malachi 3:8

However this does not excuse not giving at all as the Apostle said...

But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 2 Corinthians 9:6, 7

I give over 10% to Christian ministries. Some names...

1. Merrimac Pentecostal Holiness Church
2, Schambach Revivals
3. Beth Stephens Ministries
4. Bible Broadcasting Network
5. Joel Osteen Ministries
6. Radford Worship Center
7. Salvation Army

I just don't have the heart to tithe to one church.

 

[Rach1370]

I believe rejection of God's salvation is the reason for ending up in Hell forever.

There are those who peddle God's Word for profit. These people are really into inducing their followers to put money in the coffers each week.

I'm sure others here will provide for you the appropriate scriptures.

Be assured you certainly will not be sent to Hell forever because you cannot tithe.

God doesn't want or need your money, He wants you to want Him and be reconciled with Him through Christ Jesus.

I agree with this, well put! However the thing I would say is this; it's not our money. Everything we have belongs to God, we are just it's stewards. So the question isn't really 'how much of my stuff am I going to give to God?', it's 'how much of God's stuff do I need to live a God fearing life?' Sure, there are bills to pay, kids to feed, and the money we have to do these things is a gift from God. While tithing is not essential to salvation, we should ask ourselves why we would be relectant to return some of God's money to see His work and word spread and grow. Churches cannot operate with no money...pastors cannot spend their days sheparding the flock when their children are hungry. It takes money for these things to happen, and as God's children, we should be eager to use what we are given to help.
A preacher I listen to says this: Money is not evil, people are. You either use money and love people, or use people and love money.

I think it comes down to this...is money and our possessions more important to us than seeing Gods word reach the lives of others? Because our money can help love and serve others...worth it? I think so!

 

[rockytopva]

I like that quote!

You either use money and love people, or use people and love money.


Will have to embolden that one!

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

WITHOUT STRINGS ATTACHED.

Exactly!

 

[TheWarIs1]

The single most important command in the scriptures is................... ( Drum role)

Study to show theyself approved!


Here Is what the OT tithes was all about.
The Tribes of Israel were all given a portion of Land to work as part of the inhertiance...... except for the Levittes.
Most everybody knows exactly what they did.. and it wasn't farming or rasing cattle.
They were to take care of reilgious duties. So since they were not to farm or raise cattle to eat the tithe was made to feed those Levites
The storeroom was only for Food to feed them and the poor.

Theose responsible forTithing to the Storeroom were the Farmers and anyone who grew crops.
People that were exempt from Tithing was everybody who weren't in those Two categories.
Fishermen did not eeven Tithe because FIsh would not keep in the storeroom in those days without a Fridgerdaire.

If one that was expected to tithe and they wanted to opt out and pay cash instead they were expected to pay a penalty.
Every 7 years, Nobody tithed.

If you were a shepard and only had 9 fresh new Sheep then you weren't expected to tithe. No, 10% is a lie.
IF you had 10 then you were expected to give one sheep to the storeroom.

When the tribes were scattered and the temple was destroyed the Levitte priesthood ended, as it was Condemned by Christ.
When the Levitte Priesthood ended so did the tithes.


Give to help the needy is what we Christians should be doing.
If you want to support a fellowship group that is enitrely up to you.
Let no one lie to you again for profit. Study it


In Malchi.
on the issue of robbing God.

They had been tithing properly. The Storeroom was full and overflowing BUT
Because their hearts were not right God refused the tithes and offereings as being valid.

Let no man decieve you.

Study to show theself approved!


Fire-7 it sounds like you found a good Pastor that is seeking the truth


Shlama w'burkate
peace & blessings

 

[Foreigner]

I am a simple man and - for better or for worse - take a simpler view.


In Matt. 6 Jesus talks about "When you pray..." "When you fast..." "When you give..."


Not 'if,' but 'when'


The "Give" portion in that chapter has been a generator of great discussion.


It can indeed mean giving to the church. If you go to church and get spiritually fed on a weekly basis, one would think that you would want to give to ensure they can pay the pastor's salaries, the electricity and heating bills, etc. etc. etc.


But also - and most churches allow you to donate specifically for this - you give so that the ministries put forth by your church, (prison ministries, addiction, divorce, abuse recovery, missionary trips) can be specifically donated to.


Many suggest (and I agree) that Matt 6 ties in with Matt 25 where Jesus welcomes the sheep into heaven with the words, "For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me."


This is the true giving I believe Jesus is talking about in Matt 6. This involves PERSONAL dedication, interaction, sacrifice, and commitment. It involves being more involved than just writing a check and dropping it in the plate.


Having said that, if you aren't giving a tithe of at least 10% to your church or a ministry because "the Bible doesn't say specifically that you have to," you should really evaluate your priorities in the area of giving.


For some, giving 10% to the church is a true sacrifice and leap of faith that Jesus will reward your trust with greater blessings.


For many others, 10% to church is no real sacrifice at all.


I believe that Jesus wants a sacrifice that means something to us. Jentezen Franklin said it best when he was talking about fasting...."If it doesn't mean anything to you, then it won't mean anything to God."



.

 

[[email protected]]

For those of you who say that you should not tithe to recieve a blessing... Mike Murdock says he wrote a song for you, "How dumb thou art. How dumb thou art..."

I don't know how many have heard of Mike Murdock--the wisdom preacher, but he teaches heavily on prosperity, with many testimonies and scripture to back him up. But he insists that when you pay tithes and offering, you should expect something in return. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with him. I'm just saying, he's a very credible preacher who is adamant about giving with "expectancy". ...So, I don't know what to think about this.

The prosperity gospel is heresy. People are leaving the church because of rubbish like this.

Devotion to Jesus Christ means bending the knee in service, not picking His pocket while you're down there.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[williemac]

The KJV says suffer the little children to come unto Me. We use the word "suffer differently now than wwwaaay back then. As well...."study to shew thyself approved" is an old King James figure of speech, which means ..." be diligent to show yourself approved". The passage has no intention of suggesting that in order to be approved, we must 'study' the scripture. The word 'study' is used, again, differently now than wwwaaay back then.

Now on to the subject at hand. To whom it may concern: Rom.8:32 (NKJ), says " He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also FREELY give us all things? ". A careful "study" will reveal that under the new covenant, all things that comes to us from God in this life are freely given, by grace. The prosperity teachers ought to go and preach their enticing doctrine in a third world country and see how far it gets them. The fact is, it doesn't work. There are those who prosper just as well and sometimes even more, who don't tithe. Our fruit that we bear in this life gain rewards for the next life. Why would we settle for temporal reward, when eternal ones are everlasting?
As Jesus said..."Freely you have received. Freely give" Let us do the right things for the right reasons. Please, support your local church. But don't be enticed by the promises that God will bless you finacially if you tithe. And don't let anyone instill fear in you that God will remove His blessing if you don't tithe. God Himself is a cheerful giver. Blessings, Howie
( and as far as the threat of hell....this is rather disturbing, in light of simple passages such as John3:16 and Rom.10:9,10. Those who believe these threats need to get on a solid foundation of new covenant understanding, if nothing else, for their own sanity and well being...as well.. peace and joy)

 

[Scotty P]

I have a question. I have a small auto brake repair business. I tithe what I make, and that is where my question is.

Lets say I do a brake job for $200, $100 of that is labor and $100 of that is parts. I make $100 on this example for my time and work, the rest goes to pay for the parts. I tithe on the $100 that I make, since the other $100 belongs to the parts store. Am I right in thinking this way?

 

[Axehead]

I don't know if you have ever read "Heaven Is So Real", by Choo Thomas (who claimed to have seen John Lenon, and her own mother in Hell), but there is a point in her accounts where she references a moment that Jesus told her, in so many words, that christians who didn't pay tithe were destined for hell, because they were being "disobedient." It's a terrifying thought, but it doesn't make much since. If this account is the ruth, this would mean that you have to pay your way into Heaven. There's no other way you can spin it or manipulate it to say something other than salvation has a price tag. Even Mary K Baxter ("Divine Revelation of Hell") alluded to the same possibility. Both women's accounts were endorsed by two very credible men of G-d--one being T.L. Lowery and the other, David Yonggi Cho (pastor of the world's largest church).

But what does this say about Faithful christians who don't believe in tithing. My own pastor being one who, in an effort to get a word from G-d on how to properly teach people TO tithe, was told by G-d that tithing was a modern day deception, and now is adamantly against the practice. Whar does this say about the great preachers around the world who are so certain that tithing is not of G-d, that G-d Himself woul have to physically get off of His throne, come down to earth, point His finger in their face and tell them that they are in error? This tithing thing is just making no sense to me. It's another one of those things that is confusing, to say the least.

Many are under the spell of the religious flesh and the law.

Gal_1:8-9 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

I have a question. I have a small auto brake repair business. I tithe what I make, and that is where my question is.

Lets say I do a brake job for $200, $100 of that is labor and $100 of that is parts. I make $100 on this example for my time and work, the rest goes to pay for the parts. I tithe on the $100 that I make, since the other $100 belongs to the parts store. Am I right in thinking this way?

You are right in thinking that way if that is what man has taught you and you want to be a good follower of them and their teachings.

But in Christ, there is no such decree.

Spirit-filled Christians, abiding in Christ, walking by the Spirit will be giving because that is the nature of Christ and they have His spirit. So, this will never be an issue.

Giving is only an issue when people want to create rules and stipulations around it. And giving is only an issue when religious leaders are making a living from the Gospel and his congregation is not "giving" enough.

Axehead

 

[aspen]

i give whenever possible - i am not discipline about tithing. also, i give money and time locally most of the time.

 

[IanLC]

I believe we should tithe as believers. Now will I condemn those who do not tithe, no it is their choice. But my personal conviction is to tithe! God gives me so much it is nothing to give Him a portion of my money, time, etc. So yes I do tithe and believe that it is important for me to tithe. I was raised to tithe, was taught in church to tithe, and my personal convictions tell me to tithe.

 

[Axehead]

i give whenever possible - i am not discipline about tithing. also, i give money and time locally most of the time.

That's ok Aspen and you don't have to tell us you give. You don't have to justify yourself to men and I say this with kindness because there are men that give "spiritual interviews" to find out how "spiritual" you are and if you are worthy of their fellowship. Don't fall for that trap.

Axehead

I believe we should tithe as believers. Now will I condemn those who do not tithe, no it is their choice. But my personal conviction is to tithe! God gives me so much it is nothing to give Him a portion of my money, time, etc. So yes I do tithe and believe that it is important for me to tithe. I was raised to tithe, was taught in church to tithe, and my personal convictions tell me to tithe.

I am glad you clarified it as personal conviction. But just because others don't call their giving, "tithing" or they don't talk about their giving we should not assume that they don't give. Most spirit-filled Christians that I know are always giving of themselves in one way or another and they never talk about money .

 

[justaname]

One man makes $1,000,000 a year and gives $100,000 a year in the form of a check to his local church and the pastor knows him by name and he is invited to every function the church is holding by the elders and the pastor. He holds a position a deacon, and is in line to be an elder. He sits at the front of church, right next to the mayor, and is always asked to go over seas for the yearly missions trip. 10%er

Another man makes $10,000 a year and struggles to make ends meet although he gives $100 a year to that same church usually in the form of cash and change in the offering plate. He doesn't know the elders really, and the pastor calls him by brother or buddy for the past 3 years. He has been to a few of the functions this year, the ones where everyone is there, and sits closer to the back of the church usually next to that one young couple that comments on what everyone is wearing. God has laid it on his heart to be an evangelist, and he a does pretty good job talking to people passing through town, yet has never been on one missions trip, because it just costs too much. 1%er

What the one man gives out of abundance can not compare to what the other man gives out of faith and cheerfulness. You can put a percentage of what you might think is right for you to give, and you might even give cheerfully, but you can't say how much everybody should give. 10% of a lot is really a little, whereas 1% of a little is really a lot.

With that said I do believe the pastor should get paid for what he does.

1 Timothy 5:17-18
17 The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching.
18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing,” and “The laborer is worthy of his wages.”

 

[Axehead]

One man makes $1,000,000 a year and gives $100,000 a year in the form of a check to his local church and the pastor knows him by name and he is invited to every function the church is holding by the elders and the pastor. He holds a position a deacon, and is in line to be an elder. He sits at the front of church, right next to the mayor, and is always asked to go over seas for the yearly missions trip. 10%er

Another man makes $10,000 a year and struggles to make ends meet although he gives $100 a year to that same church usually in the form of cash and change in the offering plate. He doesn't know the elders really, and the pastor calls him by brother or buddy for the past 3 years. He has been to a few of the functions this year, the ones where everyone is there, and sits closer to the back of the church usually next to that one young couple that comments on what everyone is wearing. God has laid it on his heart to be an evangelist, and he a does pretty good job talking to people passing through town, yet has never been on one missions trip, because it just costs too much. 1%er

What the one man gives out of abundance can not compare to what the other man gives out of faith and cheerfulness. You can put a percentage of what you might think is right for you to give, and you might even give cheerfully, but you can't say how much everybody should give. 10% of a lot is really a little, whereas 1% of a little is really a lot.

With that said I do believe the pastor should get paid for what he does.

1 Timothy 5:17-18
17 The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching.
18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing,” and “The laborer is worthy of his wages.”

But really, no one should know what anyone else is giving. Right? I don't see it as much of a discussion between Believers in the book of Acts. It seems to be a huge discussion today, but then again, the Church wasn't run like a business in the first century with paid staff.


2Co_10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.