Ordain a Lady

[Matthias]

“While both men and women are gifted for service in the church, the office of pastor/elder/overseer is limited to men as qualified by Scripture.”

(Baptist Faith & Message 2000, VI. The Church)

Baptist Faith & Message 2000 - The Baptist Faith and Message

Table Of ContentsI. The ScripturesII. GodIII. ManIV. SalvationV. God's Purpose of GraceVI. The ChurchVII. Baptism and the Lord's SupperVIII. The Lord's DayIX. The KingdomX. Last ThingsXI. Evangelism and MissionsXII. EducationXIII. StewardshipXIV. CooperationXV. The Christian and the Social...

bfm.sbc.net

 

[BlessedPeace]

Acts 21
Philip the Evangelist had four daughters who prophesied. Prophets,truth tellers giving God's message to those for whom they were intended. I E. Pastors,though the term wasn't used then .

A church making a decree against women called by God is no more credible and of God than those churches who ordain homosexuals into their clergy.

The idea God won't do something because of a person's gender is indefensible. And not of God.

 

[Matthias]

Acts 21
Philip the Evangelist had four daughters who prophesied.

That’s right. The women in the video are talking about pastoring, not prophesying.

Ordain a lady -> to lead the church, not to prophesy.

 

[BlessedPeace]

That’s right. The women in the video are talking about pastoring, not prophesying.

Ordain a lady -> to lead the church, not to prophesy.

So,in your theory God will tell a woman to relay his messages to the world through prophesying. Yet,he won't call them to preach his word to the world.

Is that right?

 

[Matthias]

So,in your theory God will tell a woman to relay his messages to the world through prophesying. Yet,he won't call them to preach his word to the world.

Is that right?

I don’t have a theory. We have what Paul said. The women in the video know what Paul said and they know what the Roman Catholic Church says. They’re rebelling against Paul and the Roman Catholic Church. They organized in 1975, and they still haven’t gotten what they want.

Other churches have gone through it. The Southern Baptist Church is going through it right now. It isn’t personal.

 

[BlessedPeace]

I don’t have a theory. We have what Paul said. The women in the video know what Paul said and they know what the Roman Catholic Church says. They’re rebelling against Paul and the Roman Catholic Church. They organized in 1975, and they still haven’t gotten what they want.

Other churches have gone through it. The Southern Baptist Church is going through it right now. It isn’t personal.

You didn't answer the question.

 

[Nancy]

“Founded in 1975, the Women’s Ordination Conference (WOC) is a grass-roots driven movement that promotes activism, dialogue, and prayerful witness to call for women’s ordination and gender equity in the Roman Catholic Church.”

This is a music video the WOC produced for the cause.

The lyric which caught my attention: ”Don’t listen to Saint Paul, ’Cuz I can lead the way.”

Setting aside that this a Roman Catholic fight, it is an issue that has come up and continues to come up in Protestant circles.

”Don’t listen to Saint Paul” is an argument which I don’t find persuasive.

Can that hurdle be cleared using scripture?

That is exactly what stood out to me too right away.
Anti-Pauline doctrine seems lately to have been growing. I'd like to know who decides what is and what is not scripture?


2 Timothy 3:16-17
16"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [a]instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

​

 

[Matthias]

You didn't answer the question.

Paul didn’t prohibit women from prophesying. He prohibited women from being pastors.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Paul didn’t prohibit women from prophesying. He prohibited women from being pastors.

Prophets relay the messages,the words of God,to those for whom they are intended.
Pastors relay the words of God for those for whom they are intended.

Then comes the argument that women can't lead people,men in particular, because they are female.
Yet, God insured the human race would continue with women giving birth and nurturing girl and boy babies through life. And leading them in how to be better people.

But,he doesn't find us fit to pastor.
We're fit to prophesy and parent. We're not fit to pastor. To prophesy , not pastor.

 

[Matthias]

Prophets relay the messages,the words of God,to those for whom they are intended.
Pastors relay the words of God for those for whom they are intended.

Pastors do much more than that.

Then comes the argument that women can't lead people,men in particular, because they are female.
Yet, God insured the human race would continue with women giving birth and nurturing girl and boy babies through life. And leading them in how to be better people.

But,he doesn't find us fit to pastor.
We're fit to prophesy and parent. We're not fit to pastor. To prophesy , not pastor.

Have you thought about contacting WOC?

Do you attend a church lead by a female pastor? If not, why not?

 

[BlessedPeace]

I'd like to know who decides what is and what is not scripture.

​

Here you go .

The Canon of the Bible: Various councils, synods and canons

bible.ca

It isn't anti Pauline to recognize man's politics altered the scriptures.

 

[Matthias]

Here you go .

The Canon of the Bible: Various councils, synods and canons

bible.ca

It isn't anti Pauline to recognize man's politics altered the scriptures.

A big AMEN to that. Easily seen and well-documented in church history.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Pastors do much more than that.

True. And that there are women pastors serving God and congregations around the world is a blessing.

Sad so many others insist God did the wrong thing. Because someone wrote that Paul stated women can't pastor.

 

[Matthias]

True.

A nice point of agreement.

And that there are women pastors serving God and congregations around the world is a blessing.

WOC gives them a nod but isn’t leaving the Roman Catholic Church. They’re demanding that the Church give them what they want and not to listen to Paul.

Sad so many others insist God did the wrong thing.

None of the churches are saying that God did the wrong thing.

Because someone wrote that Paul stated women can't pastor.

Paul gave the qualifications for pastoring. WOC acknowledges it. The Roman Catholic Church acknowledges it. So do other churches.

 

[BlessedPeace]

A nice point of agreement.



WOC gives them a nod but isn’t leaving the Roman Catholic Church. They’re demanding that the Church give them what they want and not to listen to Paul.



None of the churches are saying that God did the wrong thing.



Paul gave the qualifications for pastoring. WOC acknowledges it. The Roman Catholic Church acknowledges it. So do other churches.

God calls whom He will to Salvation. God calls whom He will to Pastor.
It isn't consistent to agree God calls women to receive his messages and relay them to the world,yet claim He would not call them to pastor his word.

Further, the very idea women due to their sex cannot pastor violates the oneness Paul decreed regarding those in Christ.

We are all one in Christ....except when it comes to teaching about Christ.Then sex segregation is restored among the faithful.

 

[Matthias]

God calls whom He will to Salvation. God calls whom He will to Pastor.

God wants all to be saved. God has placed men as the leaders of the family and the church.

It isn't consistent to agree God calls women to receive his messages and relay them to the world,yet claim He would not call them to pastor his word.

Paul said what he said. Some women are looking for a workaround.(Most women aren’t demanding that we not listen to Paul.)

Further, the very idea women due to their sex cannot pastor violates the oneness Paul decreed regarding those in Christ.

Paul doesn’t think so. Some things are better suited for men; some things better suited for women. Some things can be done by both. Women are the weaker vessel.

We are all one in Christ....except when it comes to teaching about Christ.Then sex segregation is restored among the faithful.

We are all one in Messiah. Period. One body, many parts. The parts don’t all have the same role in the body.

Paul, an Apostle, has conveyed to us in his letters what Messiah approves. WOC knows it -> “Don’t listen to Paul,“ not “Paul wouldn’t say that if he lived in the 21st century.”

At some point you’re going to need to back off of the “it’s personal” angle. It’s church history.

 

[Duck Muscles]

The first preachers were women.
The four gospels report it was women who discovered Yeshua resurrected. It was those women who delivered that good news when his apostles thought him dead and entombed.

Imagine if those women stayed quiet.

BP, you might enjoy this piece. My wife keeps this handy when this can of worms enters her study circle as new members join in.

What Does the Bible Say About Women in Ministry?

These 10 Bible passages teach a Christian perspective on women preaching and being pastors.

sojo.net

This is a can of worms that has raged for centuries.
It's never wise to second guess God.
With all the women that are in ministry today , those opposed should rethink doing that.

Misunderstanding Paul's letters doesn't serve in boasting gender prejudice in God's church is God's will and way .

You won't sway those who God does not allow to see his light.

 

[Lambano]

God used an "ordained lady" pastor to help me through a period of my life where my faith and everything else was breaking down. The same Ordained Lady helped my wife find peace after the death of her father. You can quote 1 Timothy 2:12 'til you're blue in the face and you'll still never convince me that God didn't call this woman to be a pastor.

We of course fired her.

 

[Matthias]

A pastor who calls for us not to listen to Paul isn’t qualified to lead the church.

 

[Matthias]

God used an "ordained lady" pastor to help me through a period of my life where my faith and everything else was breaking down. The same Ordained Lady helped my wife find peace after the death of her father. You can quote 1 Timothy 2:12 'til you're blue in the face and you'll still never convince me that God didn't call this woman to be a pastor.

We of course fired her.

Don’t quote 1 Timothy 2:12. WOC.