Open Debate Challenge on My Defending the KJV as the Perfect Word for Today in English

[Bible Highlighter]

Hell is an interesting topic....it is very real. But you are right nothing is perfect.

Titus 1:15
”Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.”

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It’s really draining to talk about. Why not just make a YouTube video about your concerns and leave all the debating out.

We are debating unofficially right now.

Perhaps it’s my laziness, to go over things that don’t promote faith, or anything like that.

Even Jesus and Paul debated.
My unofficial debates with others on forums have helped me to stay sharp and to challenge me.

Sure there are translations that are horrible, but what matters is the heart of the individual that has such a text.

All your so-called respected Modern Translations are horrible because they all teach false doctrines. If you care about truth and people to be guided into truth and not error, then you owe it to yourself to check out the links I provided to you a few posts back. If not, then that is your choice. Only one Bible stands above these corrupted translations and that is the King James Bible.

Can they provide the spirit of the message, or are they just presenting the message and not abiding in the spirit. Causing hatred, not loving their neighbor, etc…

Please provide Scripture that God is only concerned with the spirit of the message and not His precise words.
Jesus did care about jots and tittles and said that His words would not pass away.

Again, just having a “defining stance” “preferred Bible” doesn’t make you more faithful or nonfaithful towards God. That’s a personal thing; in the face of many many people.

The Bible (God’s Word) is like bread. So if we feed ourselves false doctrines and or we deny the Bible’s own teaching purity and preservation as taught in Scripture, then that is going to lead us farther away from God at some point. People in churches to the Catholic church, or the JW church can be faithful to their view of God. But this is not the God of the Bible. Truth must come first and the Bible is truth and not full of errors as the scholars falsely teach. If the Bible had errors, then how could we trust it? It makes no sense.

 

[Christian Soldier]

The problem is not with God's nature, but rather your assessment of it. The problem is with your position that "God has no choice" and "God has no alternative" because He is by nature just. You are judging "justice" in human terms. That doesn't work. Some examples of why it doesn't work might include:

1. If justice is His nature, and we all deserve to die for our sins, then His saving a single one of us in unjust as we humans reckon justice.

2. If justice is His nature, then imputing original sin inherited from Adam to condemn infants and children who committed no actual sin themselves is unjust as we humans reckon justice.

3. If justice is His nature, then punishing the innocent for the guilty -- namely, His sinless Son instead of sinful mankind -- is unjust as we humans reckon justice. (Regardless of whether His Son volunteered for the job.)

To get around these problems, you need to come around to the notion that God's "justice" is inscrutable in human terms. He HAS a choice. He CAN choose to save everyone, or no one, or any number in between. His "justice" does not disable Him from making ANY choice He wishes.

So the question you need to confront is, what is it about God’s justice that disables God from forgiving the offender’s sin (whatever it was) without having His Son nailed to the cross? Christ, we are told, paid the price for our sins―but the price owed to Whom? If it was owed to the Father, what restrained Him from simply canceling the debt? Don't answer "justice," because that doesn't work!

Sounds like you missed the point I was trying to make before. I did explain that God is unable to change anything about who He is. So it's not as though He can just wink at sin and wave it on, no He must punish it according to His nature. We know He hats sin, so if He didn't punish sin He would be a hypocrite like men are and not worthy of my worship.

Unlike yourself I don't have any question to ask God, I love Him and everything He does and I would never ever dare to question a single thing He does. To question His motive or will, is an act of rebellion punishable by eternity in hell as it amounts to unbelief.

I'm not sure if I mentioned the fact that we know next to nothing about God, He has only revealed a tiny snippet of information about Himself. So we only know around 0.1% about Him as that's all He revealed to us and that's more than we can deal with as it is, let alo9ne if He revealed a full 1% it would instantly blow your mind. So you should be thankful to Him for hiding all of these things you seek to know about Him.

God revealed everything He wanted us to know about Him in the Bible, the canon of scripture was completed and closed 2000 years ago. The Church has struggled to deal with the 0.1% for 2000 years, Theologians spend their whole life studying the Bible and they never live long enough to process everything contained in it. Yet I see some who have never seriously studied what God revealed and they push it aside and demand to know the deep things while they couldn't even get off first base with the basic stuff.

Our sin nature hinders us form seeing the bigger picture, we have puny little minds but we want to get into the big stuff to feed our ego and pride. Well God will chastise us and cut us down to size and teach us some respect and manners.

I still don't know why you have a problem with God punishing Himself to save a remnant for His own glory. Gods elect are just a trophy of His love and mercy, there's nothing in it for us. All the praise and glory are His, we're just little ants serving Him. Everything is about Jesus and for Jesus, His people are just passengers or passive participants in His Kingdom. We don't get any praise or glory at all, our best works are just filthy stinking rags in His sight so they must be burned.

 

[Grailhunter]

But God’s Word teaches the purity and preservation of His Word. Jesus said that His words would not pass away. Yet, you are saying that the church did not have the precise words of God for hundreds of years and believers who trusted the KJV during these many years were deceived. The Modern scholars use man made theories to try and reconstruct the precise words of God but we know they will never do it. There is too much money to be made to come up with a settled text. They have regulated the preservation of God’s word to men‘s theories, and they eliminated the super natural element that it is God who ultimately preserves His Word.

And you are saying it is ok for men to add words and verses to the Word of God….so they read the words of men instead. Men have been messing with the scriptures for a long time. They took God the Father’s name out of the Old Testament and then replaced with other words 6,800 times.

Modern translators try to get to the truth….ever heard of Sacred Name Bibles….What you try to push on Christians is a Bible full of errors that is hard to read and understand.

 

[ReChoired]

Last time I check some places namely “hell” are suppose to be Ghenna. There are other words here and there, but hell who would know unless they are teachers to put out the differences. Even so, when ya know that you can teach that even with a Kiv but if you don’t know… I don’t mind the Kjv, it’s 12 th grade reading. But none of our bibles are word perfect, we just got copies of copies, of copies.

Word studies do help though, especially regarding Hebrew and Greek.

The Bible’s use of the word “hell” (54 times, KJB), translated from Hebrew & koine Greek, in general mean “pit”, “grave” or ‘place of outer darkness, or away from a source of light’:

[1] Hebrew “sheol” (H7586) - (65 times)

[A.] (31 times, “hell”) Deuteronomy 32:22; 2 Samuel 22:6; Job 11:8, 26:6; Psalms 9:17, 16:10, 18:5, 55:15, 86:13, 116:3, 139:8; Proverbs 5:5, 7:27, 9:18, 15:11,24, 23:14, 27:20; Isaiah 5:14, 14:9, 28:15 (2),18, 57:9; Ezekiel 31:16-17 (2), 32:21,27; Jonah 2:2 (2); Habakkuk 2:5;​

​

[B.] (30 times, “grave”) Genesis 37:35, 42:38, 44:29,31; 1 Kings 2:6 (2),9; Job 7:9, 21:13 (3), 24:19; Psalms 6:5, 30:3, 31:17, 49:14-15 (3), 88:3, 89:48; Proverbs 1:12, 30:16; Ecclesiastes 9:10; Song of Solomon 8:6; Isaiah 14:11, 38:10,18; Ezekiel 31:15; Hosea 13:14 (2);​

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[C.] (3 times, “pit”) Numbers 16:30,33; Job 17:16;​

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[D.] (1 times, “grave's”) Psalms 141:7​

[2] Greek “Hades” (G86) - (11 times)

[A.] (10 times, “hell”) Matthew 11:23, 16:18; Luke 10:15, 16:23; Acts 2:27,31; Revelation 1:18, 6:8, 20:13-14 (2);​

​

[B.] (1 times, “grave”) 1 Corinthians 15:55​

[3] Greek “Gehenna” (G1067) - (12 times, “hell”) Matthew 5:22, 29-30 (2), 10:28, 18:9, 23:15,33; Mark 9:43,45,47; James 3:5-6 (2)

[4] Greek “Tartaroo” (G5020) - (1 times, “hell”) 2 Peter 2:4, “ταρταρωσας”, a place of “outer darkness” (see also Matthew 8:12, 22:13, 25:30). The fallen angels, were “cast out” (Revelation 12:9) of Heaven, where all is light and glory (Revelation 21:23, 22:5), into the darkness between worlds (Hebrews 1:2, 11:3), what we call 'outer space', before satan came to the just newly created earth (Eze. 28:16-17; Luke 10:18; Jude 1:6), seeking allies in his continuing rebellion.

The Bible’s parallelism in either Hebrew or koine Greek, or English (KJB), shows us that the word, “hell” simply means “pit”, “grave”, a place of covering, and no light.

[A.] Isa_14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.​

​

[B.] Eze_31:16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.​

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[C.] Psa_30:3 O LORD, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.​

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[D.] Pro_1:12 Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:​

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[E.] Isa_14:19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.​

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[F.] Isa_38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.​

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[G.] Eze_32:23 Whose graves are set in the sides of the pit, and her company is round about her grave: all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which caused terror in the land of the living.​

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[H.] Eze_32:24 There is Elam and all her multitude round about her grave, all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which are gone down uncircumcised into the nether parts of the earth, which caused their terror in the land of the living; yet have they borne their shame with them that go down to the pit.​

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[I.] Act_2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (see Psalms 16:10)​

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Act_2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.​

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[J.] Psa 49:14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.​

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Psa 49:15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.​

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Psa 49:17 For when he dieth he shall carry nothing away: his glory shall not descend after him.​

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Psa 49:19 He shall go to the generation of his fathers; they shall never see light.​

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More here - 13 Bible Studies, Prophecy, History, Theology, Legacy by brother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

 

[ReChoired]

Last time I check some places namely “hell” are suppose to be Ghenna. There are other words here and there, but hell who would know unless they are teachers to put out the differences. Even so, when ya know that you can teach that even with a Kiv but if you don’t know… I don’t mind the Kjv, it’s 12 th grade reading. But none of our bibles are word perfect, we just got copies of copies, of copies.

Word studies do help though, especially regarding Hebrew and Greek.

DEFINITIONS AND ETYMOLOGY (WORD ORIGINS) OF THE WORDS “HELL” AND “HELLING”:

ETYMOLOGY ONLINE:

[A.] “also Hell, Old English hel, helle, "nether world, abode of the dead, infernal regions, place of torment for the wicked after death," from Proto-Germanic *haljō "the underworld" (source also of Old Frisian helle, Old Saxon hellia, Dutch hel, Old Norse hel, German Hölle, Gothic halja "hell"). Literally "concealed place" (compare Old Norse hellir "cave, cavern"), from PIE root *kel- (1) "to cover, conceal, save.​

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Old Norse Hel (from Proto-Germanic *halija "one who covers up or hides something" ... Used in the KJV for Old Testament Hebrew Sheol and New Testament Greek Hades, Gehenna. ...” - hell | Etymology of hell by etymonline​

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[B.] "*kel- (1)​

​

Proto-Indo-European root meaning "to cover, conceal, save."​

​

It forms all or part of: Anselm; apocalypse; Brussels; caliology; Calypso; calyx; ceiling; cell; cellar; cellular; cellulite; cellulitis; cilia; clandestine; cojones; coleoptera; color; conceal; eucalyptus; hall; hell; helm (n.2) "a helmet;" helmet; hold (n.2) "space in a ship below the lower deck;" hole; hollow; holster; housing (n.2) "ornamental covering;" hull (n.1) "seed covering;" kil-; kleptomania; occult; rathskeller; supercilious; Valhalla; William.​

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It is the hypothetical source of/evidence for its existence is provided by: Sanskrit cala "hut, house, hall;" Greek kalia "hut, nest," kalyptein "to cover," koleon, koleos "sheath," kelyphos "shell, husk;" Latin cella "small room, store room, hut," celare "to hide, conceal," clam "secret," clepere "to steal, listen secretly to;" Old Irish cuile "cellar," celim "hide," Middle Irish cul "defense, shelter;" Gothic hulistr "covering," Old English heolstor "lurking-hole, cave, covering," Gothic huljan "to cover over," hulundi "hole," hilms "helmet," halja "hell," Old English hol "cave," holu "husk, pod;" Old Prussian au-klipts "hidden;" Old Church Slavonic poklopu "cover, wrapping."" - - hell | Etymology of hell by etymonline​

WEBSTER’S 1828 DICTIONARY ONLINE:

"... HELL, noun​

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1. The place or state of punishment for the wicked after death. Matthew 10:28. Luke 12:5. ... 2. The place of the dead, or of souls after death; the lower regions, or the grave; called in Hebrew, sheol, and by the Greeks, hades. Psalms 16:10. Jonah 2:2. ..." - Websters Dictionary 1828 - Webster's Dictionary 1828 - Hell​

WORD USAGE:

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[A.] "Roofs were usually covered with helling stones or slates from Cornwall. Some came from St. Dominick and Menhenniot, but the origin of most is unstated. Some of the helling stones for Plympton grammar school came from Cann quarry which is north of Plym bridge, but these may have been of an inferior quality." - Devon and Cornwall Record Society, Volumes 12-14 (1967), page xiv. - Devon and Cornwall Record Society​

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[B.] "The word "hell" replaced the Hebrew word "Sheol" and the Greek word "Hai'des". The Hebrew word "Sheol" is the common grave of mankind, not a fiery place of torture. The archaic English word "hell" was used as a replacement for "Sheol" and at the time, the word meant "to put under the ground" as in "helling potatoes" (Colliers Encyclopedia 1986 Volume 12, page 28) (Vine's Expository Dictionary Old and New Testament Words, 1981 Volume 2, page 187)." - God is Great: Bible Rebuttal to Christopher Hitchens by Peter James, page 63 - God Is Great​

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[C.] "... The English word "hell" was a word that the translators picked to express an idea or condition of the Hebrew word "sheol" or Greek words "hades", "gehenna", or "tartaroo", and sometimes instead of using the word "hell", they would use the word "grave" or "pit". One of the most interesting aspects of the word "hell"is that in the old English usage, it also meant "to conceal" or "to hide" or "to cover". Old English literature sometimes mentions the "helling of onions" or potatoes, and even tells of the "helling of a house", by covering it with thatch or wooden shingles." - Satan's Secret: Exposing the Master of Deception and the Father of Lies by D. A. Teunis, page 181 - Satan's Secret​

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[D.] “That place is a real ‘hell-hole’, as it is without light, or joy, being dark and hidden away.”​

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[E.] “Cover your head! Put on that Hel-met (helmet, literally a ‘hell met’, or head covering’).​

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And you are saying it is ok for men to add words and verses to the Word of God….so they read the words of men instead. Men have been messing with the scriptures for a long time. They took God the Father’s name out of the Old Testament and then replaced with other words 6,800 times.

Modern translators try to get to the truth….ever heard of Sacred Name Bibles….What you try to push on Christians is a Bible full of errors that is hard to read and understand.

First, why would I trust the Modern Bible Movement? This movement has given me every reason to not trust it. They lied to us from the very beginning with the Revised Version by saying it was the version in 1611 AD when it wasn’t. They lied to us by moving verses around to hide the one and only clearest missing verse on the Trinity (1 John 5:7). In other words, this is a movement where its origins is rooted in deception. Therefore, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that God is not going to bless it like His pure Word. Besides, why would I want Catholics, Unitarians, and Liberals working on my Bible? I wouldn’t. In the Modern Bible Movement, will we ever get a Bible or a settled text? You got shape shifter Bibles. That is not comforting one bit.

Second, why would I want any of the false doctrines found in Modern Bibles?
This is not the case with the King James Bible.

Three, why would I want to deny the doctrines of the purity and preservation of God’s Word as taught in the Scriptures? Where does the Bible even teach anything like Modern Textual Criticism?

Four, why would God leave it up to man to figure out the rest of His Words when He supernaturally inspired it to begin with? It regulates God’s Word to being filled in certain spots to the will of man and his authority. So man gets to sit in the seat of God and determine what God said, and did not say. Maybe you want that power. I don’t. Neither am I seeking to look to some guru or scholar to get the words of God, either. I am not looking to kiss their ring and bow the knee to them. What gain is there in that? I know that one of the fruits of the Bible Industrial Complex is greed. After all, it is a billion dollar industry.

Five, its insane to suggest that the church did not have the precise words of God through history. Do you not know that the doubt producing footnotes and uncertainty on the text has only led atheists to think Christians are a bunch of idiots who follow a God who cannot get His Word right? Why should we trust a God who gives us errors in His Word? This is why the Modern Bible Movement is silly. It makes no rational sense except for those who want to have a little bit of their own power and authority to be mouth pieces for God at certain times (When He has not spoken).

These are the things which are above your pay grade to understand because you see every Christian who trusts the KJV as the perfect Word of God as being into fake conspiracy theories when you are doing that very thing with them. You will espouse your false narrative you have before because you have chosen to take the blue pill and believe whatever you want to believe.

So good day to you in the Lord.
I do not see any further discourse on this topic with you as being profitable.

May God bless you.

 

[Grailhunter]

First, why would I trust the Modern Bible Movement? This movement has given me every reason to not trust it. They lied to us from the very beginning with the Revised Version by saying it was the version in 1611 AD when it wasn’t. They lied to us by moving verses around to hide the one and only clearest missing verse on the Trinity (1 John 5:7). In other words, this is a movement where its origins is rooted in deception. Therefore, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that God is not going to bless it like His pure Word. Besides, why would I want Catholics, Unitarians, and Liberals working on my Bible? I wouldn’t. In the Modern Bible Movement, will we ever get a Bible or a settled text? You got shape shifter Bibles. That is not comforting one bit.

Second, why would I want any of the false doctrines found in Modern Bibles?
This is not the case with the King James Bible.

Three, why would I want to deny the doctrines of the purity and preservation of God’s Word as taught in the Scriptures? Where does the Bible even teach anything like Modern Textual Criticism?

Four, why would God leave it up to man to figure out the rest of His Words when He supernaturally inspired it to begin with? It regulates God’s Word to being filled in certain spots to the will of man and his authority. So man gets to sit in the seat of God and determine what God said, and did not say. Maybe you want that power. I don’t. Neither am I seeking to look to some guru or scholar to get the words of God, either. I am not looking to kiss their ring and bow the knee to them. What gain is there in that? I know that one of the fruits of the Bible Industrial Complex is greed. After all, it is a billion dollar industry.

Five, its insane to suggest that the church did not have the precise words of God through history. Do you not know that the doubt producing footnotes and uncertainty on the text has only led atheists to think Christians are a bunch of idiots who follow a God who cannot get His Word right? Why should we trust a God who gives us errors in His Word? This is why the Modern Bible Movement is silly. It makes no rational sense except for those who want to have a little bit of their own power and authority to be mouth pieces for God at certain times (When He has not spoken).

These are the things which are above your pay grade to understand because you see every Christian who trusts the KJV as the perfect Word of God as being into fake conspiracy theories when you are doing that very thing with them. You will espouse your false narrative you have before because you have chosen to take the blue pill and believe whatever you want to believe.

So good day to you in the Lord.
I do not see any further discourse on this topic with you as being profitable.

May God bless you.

God gave us the scriptures and man corrupted them and it ended up in the KJV.
Modern translatons try to recover that truth. Not that anything is perfect but they try to stick to the truth rather than carry on the corruption in later translations.

 

[RedFan]

I did explain that God is unable to change anything about who He is. So it's not as though He can just wink at sin and wave it on, no He must punish it according to His nature

"Explain?" I think the right word is "claim." I reject your claim. He CAN just "wink at sin and wave it on" if He wishes. Mercy -- which is a suspension of what you call justice -- is not against His nature.

if He didn't punish sin He would be a hypocrite like men are and not worthy of my worship

Look at all the times Christ said to someone that their sins were forgiven -- months or even years before Calvary. HE DIDN'T PUNISH THEIR SIN in those instances. Do you want to "explain" why that doesn't make Him a hypocrite?

God revealed everything He wanted us to know about Him in the Bible, the canon of scripture was completed and closed 2000 years ago.

The canon was compiled and selected (by men) closer to 1700 years ago. Check your church history. And check your version of John 21:25 while you're at it. Mine says "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written." Does yours say "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, more would be revealed to you than God intends"?

I still don't know why you have a problem with God punishing Himself to save a remnant for His own glory.

I still don't know why you think self-punishment was REQUIRED in order to save that remnant. His nature is not inconsistent with all alternative means of salvation. You say it is. I say it isn't. Let's leave it there.

 

[Rockerduck]

God gave us the scriptures and man corrupted them and it ended up in the KJV.
Modern translatons try to recover that truth. Not that anything is perfect but they try to stick to the truth rather than carry on the corruption in later translations.

God would not have allowed the KJB to be used if it was imperfectly corrupted. I mean, millions were saved over 300 yrs. with the KJB and it is public domain. You can even download the KJB free. Billions are made on the modern translations. What new truth can save anyone, that is not already in the KJB?

 

[MatthewG]

Hell is an interesting topic....it is very real. But you are right nothing is perfect.

A topic that never is talked about properly, in my opinion.

 

[MatthewG]

We are debating unofficially right now.



Even Jesus and Paul debated.
My unofficial debates with others on forums have helped me to stay sharp and to challenge me.



All your so-called respected Modern Translations are horrible because they all teach false doctrines. If you care about truth and people to be guided into truth and not error, then you owe it to yourself to check out the links I provided to you a few posts back. If not, then that is your choice. Only one Bible stands above these corrupted translations and that is the King James Bible.


Please provide Scripture that God is only concerned with the spirit of the message and not His precise words.
Jesus did care about jots and tittles and said that His words would not pass away.


The Bible (God’s Word) is like bread. So if we feed ourselves false doctrines and or we deny the Bible’s own teaching purity and preservation as taught in Scripture, then that is going to lead us farther away from God at some point. People in churches to the Catholic church, or the JW church can be faithful to their view of God. But this is not the God of the Bible. Truth must come first and the Bible is truth and not full of errors as the scholars falsely teach. If the Bible had errors, then how could we trust it? It makes no sense.

I disagree with you. While yeah the Bible is useful it can also be deadly. The Bible doesn’t change a person it’s God by giving the Holy Spirit.

I’m done talking about it.

 

[MatthewG]

The Bible’s use of the word “hell” (54 times, KJB), translated from Hebrew & koine Greek, in general mean “pit”, “grave” or ‘place of outer darkness, or away from a source of light’:

[1] Hebrew “sheol” (H7586) - (65 times)

[A.] (31 times, “hell”) Deuteronomy 32:22; 2 Samuel 22:6; Job 11:8, 26:6; Psalms 9:17, 16:10, 18:5, 55:15, 86:13, 116:3, 139:8; Proverbs 5:5, 7:27, 9:18, 15:11,24, 23:14, 27:20; Isaiah 5:14, 14:9, 28:15 (2),18, 57:9; Ezekiel 31:16-17 (2), 32:21,27; Jonah 2:2 (2); Habakkuk 2:5;​

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[B.] (30 times, “grave”) Genesis 37:35, 42:38, 44:29,31; 1 Kings 2:6 (2),9; Job 7:9, 21:13 (3), 24:19; Psalms 6:5, 30:3, 31:17, 49:14-15 (3), 88:3, 89:48; Proverbs 1:12, 30:16; Ecclesiastes 9:10; Song of Solomon 8:6; Isaiah 14:11, 38:10,18; Ezekiel 31:15; Hosea 13:14 (2);​

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[C.] (3 times, “pit”) Numbers 16:30,33; Job 17:16;​

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[D.] (1 times, “grave's”) Psalms 141:7​

[2] Greek “Hades” (G86) - (11 times)

[A.] (10 times, “hell”) Matthew 11:23, 16:18; Luke 10:15, 16:23; Acts 2:27,31; Revelation 1:18, 6:8, 20:13-14 (2);​

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[B.] (1 times, “grave”) 1 Corinthians 15:55​

[3] Greek “Gehenna” (G1067) - (12 times, “hell”) Matthew 5:22, 29-30 (2), 10:28, 18:9, 23:15,33; Mark 9:43,45,47; James 3:5-6 (2)

[4] Greek “Tartaroo” (G5020) - (1 times, “hell”) 2 Peter 2:4, “ταρταρωσας”, a place of “outer darkness” (see also Matthew 8:12, 22:13, 25:30). The fallen angels, were “cast out” (Revelation 12:9) of Heaven, where all is light and glory (Revelation 21:23, 22:5), into the darkness between worlds (Hebrews 1:2, 11:3), what we call 'outer space', before satan came to the just newly created earth (Eze. 28:16-17; Luke 10:18; Jude 1:6), seeking allies in his continuing rebellion.

The Bible’s parallelism in either Hebrew or koine Greek, or English (KJB), shows us that the word, “hell” simply means “pit”, “grave”, a place of covering, and no light.

[A.] Isa_14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.​

​

[B.] Eze_31:16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.​

​

[C.] Psa_30:3 O LORD, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.​

​

​

[C.] "... The English word "hell" was a word that the translators picked to express an idea or condition of the Hebrew word "sheol" or Greek words "hades", "gehenna", or "tartaroo", and sometimes instead of using the ​

I can do these things own my own time. Thank you.

Hell is over with anyway.

According to the scripture themselves,


But listen defending a Bible; doesn’t mean God looks at you better than someone else. That’s just ridiculous to me.


It’s only faith that please God - if someone can show me that’s not true I wish they would do that instead of beat around the bush telling me that I need a specific version of the Bible.

 

[MatthewG]

God would not have allowed the KJB to be used if it was imperfectly corrupted. I mean, millions were saved over 300 yrs. with the KJB and it is public domain. You can even download the KJB free. Billions are made on the modern translations. What new truth can save anyone, that is not already in the KJB?

No one is saved by a book. It’s Gods Holy Spirit that saves and affects a persons life. Jesus saves people by healing them. And peace with God is established.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So you refuse to acknowledge the fact that you're a liar. I showed you where you added your words over Gods Word, and now you're denying the in your face evidence and pretending you never did it.

No. You showed where YOU are adding to Gods word. Then calling me a liar. So all you did was expose yourself.

I don't know what to say to a person who is in denial of the damning in your face evidence. You can deny the truth until you turn blue in the face, but there'll be no denying the truth when you stand before God to be judged.

I will pray for you. When you stand before God. Your right, you will be judged. For rejecting and changing his words.

We both know that anyone can add whatever words they like to Gods Word, in order to avoid facing the truth of what God said.

I see you do it in almost every post you make, so yes.

They trash Gods Word and insert their word and create false doctrines and false religions,

yes, You are doing this as we speak

this has been going on from the beginning. But God has appointed a day when they will all be cast into the lake of fire, so they can brag about their wisdom and mock Gods elect all they like, but their fate is sealed.

I pray you repent before this happens.

Anyway, I have shown you scriptures which refute and expose your opinion as false,

No. You have not shown me anything, but your a self righteous person who attacks anyone who does not agree with you. then bear false witness against them in accusing them of doing the very thing you are doing.

but I guess nobody can show a blind man anything.

Yes, You are proving this almost every post you make. proving how blind you are. Blah Blah

You're not willing to own your lies, or consider the possibility that you may be mistaken so all I can do is pray for you.

You did not even look to my post and show where I erred, Nor did you counter the truth of what I accused you of.

Which just proves once again, When push comes to shove, You come out swinging, because you really have nothing of value.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God would not have allowed the KJB to be used if it was imperfectly corrupted. I mean, millions were saved over 300 yrs. with the KJB and it is public domain. You can even download the KJB free. Billions are made on the modern translations. What new truth can save anyone, that is not already in the KJB?

You have to be able to read and understand the KJB first off.

Most people today would have to take a college course in old english to understand.

I would ask what truth we can NOT get from new bibles like the NKJ or the NASB or others that they could also get from the KJB if they could understand it

 

[MatthewG]

God would not have allowed the KJB to be used if it was imperfectly corrupted. I mean, millions were saved over 300 yrs. with the KJB and it is public domain. You can even download the KJB free. Billions are made on the modern translations. What new truth can save anyone, that is not already in the KJB?

You have to be able to read and understand the KJB first off.

Most people today would have to take a college course in old english to understand.

I would ask what truth we can NOT get from new bibles like the NKJ or the NASB or others that they could also get from the KJB if they could understand it

Thinking about @Bible Highlighter, and his debate of KJV being the top dog, you bring up a point EG.


How are all the people in Aboriginal Africans who speak a different dialect, and etc, going to understand an English-written bible...

So much of a defensive stance... oh we just teach them english and they will learn... yeah okay, how can you teach a mentally disabled African english? When they don't understand or get how to connect the words together.

This is why I believe in God who is bigger than a bible, and he is able to touch peoples hearts by his spirit, by those who - seek someone higher than them, and all they have is the makings of the earth made, all by God like the stars and moon and sun.

 

[Johann]

Thinking about @Bible Highlighter, and his debate of KJV being the top dog, you bring up a point EG.


How are all the people in Aboriginal Africans who speak a different dialect, and etc, going to understand an English-written bible...

So much of a defensive stance... oh we just teach them english and they will learn... yeah okay, how can you teach a mentally disabled African english? When they don't understand or get how to connect the words together.

This is why I believe in God who is bigger than a bible, and he is able to touch peoples hearts by his spirit, by those who - seek someone higher than them, and all they have is the makings of the earth made, all by God like the stars and moon and sun.

Top 5 Heresies Among American Evangelicals
It’s 2022, but Arianism and Pelagianism are steadily making a comeback, according to the State of Theology report.
STEFANI MCDADE
|

Top 5 Heresies Among American Evangelicals
Image: Edits by Christianity Today / Source Image: Getty
American evangelicals’ grasp on theology is slipping, and more than half affirmed heretical views of God in this year’s State of Theology survey, released Monday by Ligonier Ministries and Lifeway Research.

The report references Ligonier founder R. C. Sproul’s teaching that everyone’s a theologian. “However, Dr. Sproul would be quick to add that not everyone is a good theologian,” it read. That caveat applies to Americans in general and evangelicals too.

Overall, adults in the US are moving away from orthodox understandings of God and his Word year after year. More than half of the country (53%) now believes Scripture “is not literally true,” up from 41 percent when the biannual survey began in 2014.


EXPAND GRAPH
Researchers called the rejection of the divine authorship of the Bible the “clearest and most consistent trend” over the eight years of data.

“This view makes it easy for individuals to accept biblical teaching that they resonate with while simultaneously rejecting any biblical teaching that is out of step with their own personal views or broader cultural values,” the researchers wrote.

It’s clear that US evangelicals (defined by belief and church affiliation) share some core faith convictions. Well over 90 percent agree that God is perfect, God exists in three persons, Jesus’ bodily resurrection is real, and people are made righteous not through works but through faith in him.

But in some areas, even evangelicals responded with significant misunderstandings and were not far off from the trends in society overall.

In the 2022 survey, around a quarter of evangelicals (26%) said the Bible is not literally true, up from 15 percent in 2020. They also became more likely to consider religious belief “a matter of personal opinion” and “not about objective truth”; 38 percent said so in 2022, compared to 23 percent in 2020.

Here are five of the most common mistaken beliefs held by evangelicals in this year’s survey:

1. Jesus isn’t the only way to God.
More than half—56 percent—of evangelical respondents affirmed that “God accepts the worship of all religions, including Christianity, Judaism and Islam,” up from 42 percent in 2020. And while the question doesn’t include all religions, it indicates a bent toward universalism—believing there are ways to bypass Jesus in our approach to and acceptance by God.




EXPAND GRAPH
2. Jesus was created by God.
A surprising 73 percent agreed with the statement that “Jesus is the first and greatest being created by God.”

This is a form of Arianism, a popular heresy that arose in the early fourth century. Those believing it caused such a stir that it led to the gathering of the very first ecumenical council of church leaders. They discussed and denounced these and other unorthodox beliefs as heretical for being contrary to Scripture.

Out of the Council of Nicea came the Nicene Creed, which states in part that Jesus was “not made” but “eternally begotten” and “one in being with the Father,” as found in passages including John 3:16 and John 14:9.


EXPAND GRAPH
3. Jesus is not God.
Given the above beliefs on Jesus as a created being, it’s not too surprising that 43 percent affirmed that “Jesus was a great teacher, but he was not God,” which is another form of Arian heresy.

This effectively denies the divinity of Christ and his unity with God the Father as an equal member in the Trinity, who is one God in three persons. This has been considered classic orthodox belief since the early church, and is based on many biblical passages—like where Jesus says “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30). For this, he gets accused of blasphemy (and threatened with stoning) by religious leaders for claiming to be God.


EXPAND GRAPH
4. The Holy Spirit is not a personal being.
Speaking of the Trinity, 60 percent of the evangelical survey respondents had some confusion about its third member, believing that “The Holy Spirit is a force but is not a personal being.”

To be fair, the Spirit of God is often described as an impersonal force throughout the Bible (sometimes as a dove, a cloud, fire, wind, or water), but these are all just metaphors for the Spirit’s personal presence. The Scriptures clearly affirm that the Spirit is fully God—just like Jesus and the Father, who sent us the Spirit—including the time when Ananias was described as simultaneously lying to the Holy Spirit and to God (Acts 5:3–4).

5. Humans aren’t sinful by nature.
Interestingly, 57 percent also agreed to the statement that “Everyone sins a little, but most people are good by nature.” In other words, humans might be capable of committing individual sins, but we do not have sinful natures.

Article continues below
This response indicates that many American evangelicals believe humans are born essentially good, which leans toward a heresy known as Pelagianism. This denies the doctrine of “original sin,” which is based on a number of biblical passages, such as Romans 5:12. Even David acknowledged in the Old Testament that humans were born in sin, saying “Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me” (Ps. 51:5).


EXPAND GRAPH
Respondents were considered evangelical by belief if they strongly agreed in the Bible as the highest authority; the importance of encouraging non-Christians to trust Jesus as their savior; that his death removed the penalty of sin; and that trust in him alone brings salvation. This four-part definition was adopted by Lifeway and the National Association of Evangelicals in 2015.

While evangelicals were found to be moving away from orthodox beliefs in several of the questions about God, they’ve grown more assured in their stances on cultural and ethical issues.

Among evangelicals, 94 percent believe “sex outside of traditional marriage is a sin” and 91 percent believe abortion is a sin, both the highest levels since the survey began.

Top 5 Heresies Among American Evangelicals - Christianity Today

It’s 2022, but Arianism and Pelagianism are steadily making a comeback, according to the State of Theology report.

www.christianitytoday.com

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thinking about @Bible Highlighter, and his debate of KJV being the top dog, you bring up a point EG.


How are all the people in Aboriginal Africans who speak a different dialect, and etc, going to understand an English-written bible...

So much of a defensive stance... oh we just teach them english and they will learn... yeah okay, how can you teach a mentally disabled African english? When they don't understand or get how to connect the words together.

This is why I believe in God who is bigger than a bible, and he is able to touch peoples hearts by his spirit, by those who - seek someone higher than them, and all they have is the makings of the earth made, all by God like the stars and moon and sun.

I grew up reading the KJB, When I was 16, My father purchased me a NKJB which I have used for the last 43 years. When my mother passed away, I took her old KJB she loved, I picked it up one day to try to read it. Even though I spent 10 year using it as my only bible. I found it hard to understand, I could not really grasp some of the things that were said. I would not give that bible to anyone who did not know the word of God or who are new to christianity, i would be setting them up for failure..

 

[Johann]

Top 5 Heresies Among American Evangelicals
It’s 2022, but Arianism and Pelagianism are steadily making a comeback, according to the State of Theology report.
STEFANI MCDADE
|

Top 5 Heresies Among American Evangelicals
Image: Edits by Christianity Today / Source Image: Getty
American evangelicals’ grasp on theology is slipping, and more than half affirmed heretical views of God in this year’s State of Theology survey, released Monday by Ligonier Ministries and Lifeway Research.

The report references Ligonier founder R. C. Sproul’s teaching that everyone’s a theologian. “However, Dr. Sproul would be quick to add that not everyone is a good theologian,” it read. That caveat applies to Americans in general and evangelicals too.

Overall, adults in the US are moving away from orthodox understandings of God and his Word year after year. More than half of the country (53%) now believes Scripture “is not literally true,” up from 41 percent when the biannual survey began in 2014.


EXPAND GRAPH
Researchers called the rejection of the divine authorship of the Bible the “clearest and most consistent trend” over the eight years of data.

“This view makes it easy for individuals to accept biblical teaching that they resonate with while simultaneously rejecting any biblical teaching that is out of step with their own personal views or broader cultural values,” the researchers wrote.

It’s clear that US evangelicals (defined by belief and church affiliation) share some core faith convictions. Well over 90 percent agree that God is perfect, God exists in three persons, Jesus’ bodily resurrection is real, and people are made righteous not through works but through faith in him.

But in some areas, even evangelicals responded with significant misunderstandings and were not far off from the trends in society overall.

In the 2022 survey, around a quarter of evangelicals (26%) said the Bible is not literally true, up from 15 percent in 2020. They also became more likely to consider religious belief “a matter of personal opinion” and “not about objective truth”; 38 percent said so in 2022, compared to 23 percent in 2020.

Here are five of the most common mistaken beliefs held by evangelicals in this year’s survey:

1. Jesus isn’t the only way to God.
More than half—56 percent—of evangelical respondents affirmed that “God accepts the worship of all religions, including Christianity, Judaism and Islam,” up from 42 percent in 2020. And while the question doesn’t include all religions, it indicates a bent toward universalism—believing there are ways to bypass Jesus in our approach to and acceptance by God.




EXPAND GRAPH
2. Jesus was created by God.
A surprising 73 percent agreed with the statement that “Jesus is the first and greatest being created by God.”

This is a form of Arianism, a popular heresy that arose in the early fourth century. Those believing it caused such a stir that it led to the gathering of the very first ecumenical council of church leaders. They discussed and denounced these and other unorthodox beliefs as heretical for being contrary to Scripture.

Out of the Council of Nicea came the Nicene Creed, which states in part that Jesus was “not made” but “eternally begotten” and “one in being with the Father,” as found in passages including John 3:16 and John 14:9.


EXPAND GRAPH
3. Jesus is not God.
Given the above beliefs on Jesus as a created being, it’s not too surprising that 43 percent affirmed that “Jesus was a great teacher, but he was not God,” which is another form of Arian heresy.

This effectively denies the divinity of Christ and his unity with God the Father as an equal member in the Trinity, who is one God in three persons. This has been considered classic orthodox belief since the early church, and is based on many biblical passages—like where Jesus says “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30). For this, he gets accused of blasphemy (and threatened with stoning) by religious leaders for claiming to be God.


EXPAND GRAPH
4. The Holy Spirit is not a personal being.
Speaking of the Trinity, 60 percent of the evangelical survey respondents had some confusion about its third member, believing that “The Holy Spirit is a force but is not a personal being.”

To be fair, the Spirit of God is often described as an impersonal force throughout the Bible (sometimes as a dove, a cloud, fire, wind, or water), but these are all just metaphors for the Spirit’s personal presence. The Scriptures clearly affirm that the Spirit is fully God—just like Jesus and the Father, who sent us the Spirit—including the time when Ananias was described as simultaneously lying to the Holy Spirit and to God (Acts 5:3–4).

5. Humans aren’t sinful by nature.
Interestingly, 57 percent also agreed to the statement that “Everyone sins a little, but most people are good by nature.” In other words, humans might be capable of committing individual sins, but we do not have sinful natures.

Article continues below
This response indicates that many American evangelicals believe humans are born essentially good, which leans toward a heresy known as Pelagianism. This denies the doctrine of “original sin,” which is based on a number of biblical passages, such as Romans 5:12. Even David acknowledged in the Old Testament that humans were born in sin, saying “Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me” (Ps. 51:5).


EXPAND GRAPH
Respondents were considered evangelical by belief if they strongly agreed in the Bible as the highest authority; the importance of encouraging non-Christians to trust Jesus as their savior; that his death removed the penalty of sin; and that trust in him alone brings salvation. This four-part definition was adopted by Lifeway and the National Association of Evangelicals in 2015.

While evangelicals were found to be moving away from orthodox beliefs in several of the questions about God, they’ve grown more assured in their stances on cultural and ethical issues.

Among evangelicals, 94 percent believe “sex outside of traditional marriage is a sin” and 91 percent believe abortion is a sin, both the highest levels since the survey began.

Top 5 Heresies Among American Evangelicals - Christianity Today

It’s 2022, but Arianism and Pelagianism are steadily making a comeback, according to the State of Theology report.

www.christianitytoday.com