Open Debate Challenge on My Defending the KJV as the Perfect Word for Today in English

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St. SteVen

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What sort of God would conceive a plan for humankind (created in his image) that assures such a pitiful outcome? This is slander against the love and mercy of God. Sinful humanity has not produced a tyrant as heinous as what some Christian claim about our God. Countless billions going to eternal torment with no hope of escape because God "predestined" them for destruction.
What does the Bible say?

Romans 11:32, 36
32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
36 For from him and through him and for him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 1:29 NIV
... The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,
Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 NIV
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

MUCH MORE WHERE THIS CAME FROM (the Bible)

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St. SteVen

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To all:

I have defended the KJV as the perfect Word for today on this forum.

I open the challenge to any Christian here to a debate on YouTube
Any challengers yet?

To what end would you make such a challenge? What do you hope to accomplish?

Do you seek to create even MORE division in the Body of Christ?

Love builds bridges, not walls.

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Johann

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Any challengers yet?

To what end would you make such a challenge? What do you hope to accomplish?

Do you seek to create even MORE division in the Body of Christ?

Love builds bridges, not walls.

]
Sure-let's throw truth out the door and just love those who love us.
 

Scott Downey

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"what if he hadn't saved me". I can't even imagine such a ting because I have been saved since before the world was made. I did live like a child of the Devil, until I was converted at the age of 26

Jesus didn't save me from the wrath of God, because there never was any chance of me facing His wrath. Jesus saved me before He created the world, so Gods wrath was removed off me back then.

Jesus saved me from paying the penalty for my sin, so he took my sin onto Himself and paid for it in full so I never have to face the angry Judge. So I can't say Jesus saved me from Gods wrath as if God is just an angry old man who takes pleasure in watching people burn forever.

God only gives people what they deserve, so He's a righteous judge. I deserve what Jesus deserves, because He imputed His righteousness onto me. So God will judge me according to His righteousness and not my own.
Scripture is clear, says some are given His mercy. Those who get mercy from God, God does not impute to them their sin.
You had sin, God did not impute your sins to your account. That is why the NC is so wonderful. Find it in Hebrews 8.
In our NC, for believers, God imputes to us Christ's righteousness. God does not remember our sins and trespasses to the judgement of hell. God is merciful to our unrighteousness.

It is not about what we deserve it is about God's purposes and plans.
We all sinned, and the soul that sins shall die God says, and in reality, you DIED,
so then since you died, now you are dead to sin so that you are alive to God in Christ.

For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

Colossians 3
If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.

3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.

8 But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, 10 and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, 11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.



Good reading here about what God imputes to us believers

1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father[a] has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was [b]accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted [c]as grace but as debt.

David Celebrates the Same Truth​

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

Abraham Justified Before Circumcision​

9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.

The Promise Granted Through Faith​

13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, 15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.

16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be [d]sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; 18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, “So shall your descendants be.” 19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. 20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.
 

Scott Downey

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The Excellency of the New Covenant for all God's Church of believers in Christ.​

We are Dead to Sin, and Alive to God

Romans 6

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be [a]done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been [b]freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.

10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, [c]reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as [d]instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
 

Scott Downey

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Present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, brought near to God by the blood of Christ, that is by HIS death on the cross, believers have been redeemed from the dead.


Ephesians 2


And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the [a]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Brought Near by His Blood​

11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
 

Bible Highlighter

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I do not deny new information if it true.....I love learning some new.
This again is false because you said you did not want to hear anymore about Georgios. Georgios is a key figure in the discussion involving the grammar points involving my defense of the Comma. But because it does not fit your narrative, this is why you shut this kind of conversation down. So no. You don’t always love learning something new. If some new information contradicts your personal belief that the Bible is not our sole trustworthy written guide for all matters of faith and practice, then you toss it aside like a piece of trash.


As far as grammar or spelling, that is a topic. One of the ways of knowing if a text is not a true copy is that the grammar and spelling was correct.
But that’s not what we see you do. Georgios and Eugene are Greek grammarians who say there is an error in the text if the Comma is not there in 1 John 5:7. If you are claiming to that if a text is a true copy based on your knowledge of the grammar, you should at least be aware of these men and the grammar issues that they discovered and be able to give an answer that is superior to them and show other Greek grammarians who say otherwise.


The people that wrote the scriptures were not grammarians and if grammar was the deciding factor if a scripture was true we would have a lot smaller Bibles. Now time period grammar is a different story.
So let me get this straight. Are you saying that the authors God used to write the Bible made errors in grammar because they were not grammarians? Can a person who is a fisherman or a disciple of Jesus Christ have correct grammar? Are you saying that the biblical author John under the inspiration of God had created two grammar errors right at the point of 1 John 5:7 (that appears in Modern Bibles) when he was writing his 1st epistle? Yet, magically, these grammar errors goes away when the Comma is there? It seems more likely that the Comma was in the original text because the grammar works when the Comma is included.

As for your claim of time period grammar:

While I am not doubting that grammar can change over time, you did not appear to be aware of the grammar issues involving Georgios and Eugene on the Comma. You have also not demonstrated that their grammar points are invalid because of a change in grammar as a result of the time period. If you can demonstrate that the grammar changed on the two points they brought up and give many examples that this is the case, then by all means. But we know you just said what you did as a part of your shell game to brush us off and so as not to deal with the truth here. It’s why you said before you did not want to keep talking about Georgios. So yeah. You are not the Johnny Apple seed of truth, my friend. You are not dealing with the truth here and you are giving us pat answers and no verifiable and undeniable sources that demolishes the information and sources I brought up. So sorry. You lose on this point here, which pokes a hole in your overall argument in your liberal stance in attacking the Bible (which today is the KJV).
 
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Grailhunter

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You will continue to remain in your bubble information

LOL you know. that I know. that it is you that is in the bubble.
And like I said, it is between you and God. My duty is done.
My family.....mom Catholic and dad Southern Baptist.

One morning I was reading the story of the protocol son to my mom and dad at the kitchen table. The Bible….the KJV. My dad looks over at my mom and says, This is going to cost us a fortune. My mom nodded her head and said I will talk to Father Dean tomorrow and see if we have to go to St. Louis for advanced programs. My dad chucked and said, I would like to see his face when you tell him, he is six year old.

Now my dad had a preacher friend that use to go fishing with us and over the years I heard them talk about the stress of running a church…..people not getting along…..budgets…..hole in the roof …. Whatever….but what concerned him most is that his congregation did not believe him.

I decided early on that stress was a distraction and when I started my ministry I decided that truth had power and God could decide who believed it or not and I would focus on knowing the truth and just let it be known and walk away and let God handle it. No concern and no stress. So don’t worry about hurting my feelings because I don’t care if you believe. That is between you and God.

And as far as your snide insults I just think it is funny and you are stupid. So save them for somebody that will appreciate the gesture. But if you convince that you are really stupid I will just not talk to you.
 

Grailhunter

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This again is false because you said you did not want to hear anymore about Georgios. Georgios is a key figure in the discussion involving the grammar points involving my defense of the Comma. But because it does not fit your narrative, this is why you shut this kind of conversation down. So no. You don’t always love learning something new. If some new information contradicts your personal belief that the Bible is not our sole trustworthy written guide for all matters of faith and practice, then you toss it aside like a piece of trash.
No because I have already written him off....I have never heard of him and from what I have read about him, he is nothing special. And since you are trying to push him on me I am sure you have an intent and I am not going to let you lead me down that path.

On the other hand if you want to talk about the grammatical errors in the Bible we can talk about it.
 

Grailhunter

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But that’s not what we see you do. Georgios and Eugene are Greek grammarians who say there is an error in the text if the Comma is not there in 1 John 5:7. If you are claiming to that if a text is a true copy based on your knowledge of the grammar, you should at least be aware of these men and the grammar issues that they discovered and be able to give an answer that is superior to them and show other Greek grammarians who say otherwise.

State your case.
 

Grailhunter

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So let me get this straight. Are you saying that the authors God used to write the Bible made errors in grammar because they were not grammarians? Can a person who is a fisherman or a disciple of Jesus Christ have correct grammar? Are you saying that the biblical author John under the inspiration of God had created two grammar errors right at the point of 1 John 5:7 (that appears in Modern Bibles) when he was writing his 1st epistle? Yet, magically, these grammar errors goes away when the Comma is there? It seems more likely that the Comma was in the original text because the grammar works when the Comma is included.

I am stating a fact. And probably the Apostle were not grammarians.....even Paul. You should look this up. One of the studies is looking who physically wrote these writings.
 

Grailhunter

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Are you saying that the biblical author John under the inspiration of God had created two grammar errors right at the point of 1 John 5:7 (that appears in Modern Bibles)

What is in some modern translations came before the Comma Johanneum Addition replaced the actual scriptures.
 

Grailhunter

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While I am not doubting that grammar can change over time, you did not appear to be aware of the grammar issues involving Georgios and Eugene on the Comma. You have also not demonstrated that their grammar points are invalid because of a change in grammar as a result of the time period. If you can demonstrate that the grammar changed on the two points they brought up and give many examples that this is the case, then by all means. But we know you just said what you did as a part of your shell game to brush us off and so as not to deal with the truth here. It’s why you said before you did not want to keep talking about Georgios. So yeah. You are not the Johnny Apple seed of truth, my friend. You are not dealing with the truth here and you are giving us pat answers and no verifiable and undeniable sources that demolishes the information and sources I brought up. So sorry. You lose on this point here, which pokes a hole in your overall argument in your liberal stance in attacking the Bible (which today is the KJV).

No I did not. Because it is an irrelevant point. And because they obviously did not know that….they are irrelevant.
 
J

Johann

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What is in some modern translations came before the Comma Johanneum Addition replaced the actual scriptures.
You have a point there.

The earliest Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, dating from the 2nd to the 4th centuries, did not include punctuation marks, including commas, as we use them today. Here are some key points about the nature of these manuscripts:

Scriptio Continua: Early Greek manuscripts were written in a style called "scriptio continua," where words were written in a continuous stream without spaces, punctuation, or standardized capitalization. This style required readers to parse the text themselves, determining where sentences and clauses began and ended.

Lack of Punctuation: The absence of punctuation marks meant that early manuscripts relied on other textual cues for meaning. Readers had to use context, syntax, and sometimes diacritical marks (introduced later) to understand the text. Punctuation marks, as we know them, including commas, periods, and question marks, were gradually introduced into Greek manuscripts over the centuries.

Development of Punctuation: By the medieval period, Greek manuscripts began to include more punctuation, which helped clarify meaning and structure. However, this was long after the earliest manuscripts were produced. The system of punctuation we use today was not standardized until much later.

Influence on Textual Transmission: The lack of punctuation in the earliest manuscripts means that any punctuation found in later manuscripts, including the Textus Receptus or modern editions, is the result of editorial decisions made by scribes and scholars over time. These decisions were influenced by linguistic, theological, and contextual considerations.

In the case of the Johannine Comma (1 John 5:7-8), the issue is not about punctuation but rather about the presence or absence of a specific phrase. The earliest Greek manuscripts, which lack this phrase, do not provide any punctuation to guide interpretation. The inclusion of the Johannine Comma in later manuscripts and editions like the Textus Receptus is a result of its presence in certain Latin manuscripts and the decisions made by Erasmus and subsequent editors.

Thus, while there were no commas in the earliest Greek manuscripts, the practice of adding punctuation developed over time to aid in the reading and interpretation of the text. The debate over the Johannine Comma focuses on textual content rather than punctuation.

Maybe @Bible Highlighter can answer?
 

Grailhunter

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You have a point there.

The earliest Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, dating from the 2nd to the 4th centuries, did not include punctuation marks, including commas, as we use them today. Here are some key points about the nature of these manuscripts:

Scriptio Continua: Early Greek manuscripts were written in a style called "scriptio continua," where words were written in a continuous stream without spaces, punctuation, or standardized capitalization. This style required readers to parse the text themselves, determining where sentences and clauses began and ended.

Lack of Punctuation: The absence of punctuation marks meant that early manuscripts relied on other textual cues for meaning. Readers had to use context, syntax, and sometimes diacritical marks (introduced later) to understand the text. Punctuation marks, as we know them, including commas, periods, and question marks, were gradually introduced into Greek manuscripts over the centuries.

Development of Punctuation: By the medieval period, Greek manuscripts began to include more punctuation, which helped clarify meaning and structure. However, this was long after the earliest manuscripts were produced. The system of punctuation we use today was not standardized until much later.

Influence on Textual Transmission: The lack of punctuation in the earliest manuscripts means that any punctuation found in later manuscripts, including the Textus Receptus or modern editions, is the result of editorial decisions made by scribes and scholars over time. These decisions were influenced by linguistic, theological, and contextual considerations.

In the case of the Johannine Comma (1 John 5:7-8), the issue is not about punctuation but rather about the presence or absence of a specific phrase. The earliest Greek manuscripts, which lack this phrase, do not provide any punctuation to guide interpretation. The inclusion of the Johannine Comma in later manuscripts and editions like the Textus Receptus is a result of its presence in certain Latin manuscripts and the decisions made by Erasmus and subsequent editors.

Thus, while there were no commas in the earliest Greek manuscripts, the practice of adding punctuation developed over time to aid in the reading and interpretation of the text. The debate over the Johannine Comma focuses on textual content rather than punctuation.

Maybe @Bible Highlighter can answer?
Yep
papyrus-636x415.jpg
 

St. SteVen

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Reminded me of this. - LOL
The claim that the Johannine Comma has nothing to do with punctuation.

St. SteVen said:
As I understand it, no Greek manuscripts include commas, or any other ENGLISH language punctuation. You are probably referring to an English translation. Right?
No. She is not talking about punctuation. The Comma she is referring to is the Johannine Comma.
LOL

[
 

Bible Highlighter

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I still say I do and did not know them I am talking about the topic.
I just gave you the Comma, where are grammor issues.
I am sure you like them and I could not care less.
And this is not about my credentials it is about the facts.
They have manuscripts before the scriptures were modified and after....it is obvious that they were changed.
That’s because you are buying what the Modern scholars are saying. But they have lied over the years and continue to lie on other things in scholarship and so that does not give me any confidence on their story involving the Comma that you have swallowed, hook, line, and sinker. The grammar issues is something you have to ignore to make the false narrative work. I say it is false not only because of the source (kind of like how a person who is in the know would not blindly believe everything from the Leftist media) but because there also testimonies in history that state that the Scriptures were corrupted by Arians in the early centuries. Even Jerome stated that Comma was being corrupted when it was translated from the Greek to the Latin. 460 bishops were willing to die for the Comma when they testified to it. Their tongues were cut out but they were by a miracle still able to speak and testify to the truth again.
 

Grailhunter

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That’s because you are buying what the Modern scholars are saying. But they have lied over the years and continue to lie on other things in scholarship and so that does not give me any confidence on their story involving the Comma that you have swallowed, hook, line, and sinker. The grammar issues is something you have to ignore to make the false narrative work. I say it is false not only because of the source (kind of like how a person who is in the know would not blindly believe everything from the Leftist media) but because there also testimonies in history that state that the Scriptures were corrupted by Arians in the early centuries. Even Jerome stated that Comma was being corrupted when it was translated from the Greek to the Latin. 460 bishops were willing to die for the Comma when they testified to it. Their tongues were cut out but they were by a miracle still able to speak and testify to the truth again.

You still sound like a conspiracy theorist.
Lets say we have a Sunday School teacher that tells people he believes science is all bunk and lies. But when he turns on his big screen television to watch the Super Bowl game which gets it signal from a satellite orbiting at thousands of miles above the Earth. He is not surprised….he believes. Is he juggling beliefs about science or partial blinders? Where are the dividing lines because he moves through them everyday. It is easy to deny things that cannot be seen or touched or technology that most people do not understand.

So then he gets into his Ford pickup truck that has 32 micro-processors in it and Onstar to go to Sunday School to teach people that science is all bunk and lies. The young in his class that are attending college to be doctors and nurses, he tell them…..Ya know you cannot believe what you have been taught in college because it is mostly bunk and lies.

To put it bluntly, the Quest is about knowing the Truth, rejecting the lies and getting rid of the stupid in your religion, and if you can’t, you deserve what you live. The love of ugly, misery, sadness, and cowardice is just one of the placebo realities that forms the Christian Matrix, and there are many more. For example consider this; The Christian Matrix has a very strong influence on the mind, which could even be called control, it coexists with reality so the mind juggles these realities. Will his microwave really heat up the pizza or is it a lie….but he believes. But when reality is required for survival the mind has its own power to override the Christian Matrix. It is called the survival instinct, and once activated, it will mow over the Christian Matrix like it was a steamroller, because the survival instincts will drive survival. But then the Christian Matrix affects a broad range of things, case in point; The Christian Matrix can sustain the belief that according to some Christian teachings, science does not know anything, they are all wrong about the world being billions of years old, their wrong about evolution, and there is no such thing as dinosaurs and cavemen. The Christian Matrix can sustain the belief that science is all bunk! Yet the same mind that would teach this rubbish in Sunday school, when faced with a heart attack, will not drop to his knees and pray until it goes away, he will use that little witchy device that can call anyone in the world, and he will use it to call the technology wagon, otherwise called the ambulance. When it arrives he is not going to instruct the driver to take him to the nearest church, he will want to go to the nearest place of science, the hospital. Then when he gets to the hospital, he is not looking for a preacher, he is hoping that a man of medical science is there, and he hopes that the man believes in science, because if he is one of his Sunday school students, and all he does is pull out a Bible and reads scriptures to him for the next couple hours......he is going to die!

Selective denial of science and history only works for things you cannot see or touch…..it is deceiver’s playground.
 
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Rockerduck

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You still sound like a conspiracy theorist.
Lets say we have a Sunday School teacher that tell people he believes science is all bunk and lies. But when he turns on his big screen television to watch the Super Bowl game which gets it signal from a satellite orbiting at thousands of miles above the Earth. He is not surprised….he believes. Does juggle beliefs about science or partial blinder? He is not surprised….he believes. Is he juggling beliefs about science or partial blinders, or selective disbeliefs? Where are the dividing lines because he move through them ever day.

So then he gets into his Ford pickup truck that has 32 micro processors in it and Onstar to go to Sunday School to teach people that science is all bunk and lies. The young in his class that are attending college to be doctors and nurses, he tell them…..Ya know you cannot believe what you have been taught in college because it is mostly bunk and lies.

To put it bluntly, the Quest is about knowing the Truth, rejecting the lies and getting rid of the stupid in your religion, and if you can’t, you deserve what you live. The love of ugly, misery, sadness, and cowardice is just one of the placebo realities that forms the Christian Matrix, and there are many more. For example consider this; The Christian Matrix has a very strong influence on the mind, which could even be called control, The Christian Matrix has a very strong influence on the mind, which could even be called control, it coexists with reality so the mind juggles these realities. Will his microwave really heat up the pizza or is it a lie….but he believes. But when reality is required for survival the mind has its own power to override the Christian Matrix. It is called the survival instinct, and once activated, it will mow over the Christian Matrix like it was a steamroller, because the survival instincts will drive survival. But then the Christian Matrix affects a broad range of things, case in point; The Christian Matrix can sustain the belief that according to Christian teachings, science does not know anything, they are all wrong about the world being billions of years old, their wrong about evolution, and there is no such thing as dinosaurs and cavemen. The Christian Matrix can sustain the belief that science is all bunk! Yet the same mind that would teach this rubbish in Sunday school, when faced with a heart attack, will not drop to his knees and pray until it goes away, he will use that little witchy device that can call anyone in the world, and he will use it to call the technology wagon, otherwise called the ambulance. When it arrives he is not going to instruct the driver to take him to the nearest church, he will want to go to the nearest place of science, the hospital. Then when he gets to the hospital, he is not looking for a preacher, he is hoping that a man of medical science is there, and he hopes that the man believes in science, because if he is one of his Sunday school students, and all he does is pull out a Bible and reads scriptures to him for the next couple hours......he is going to die!
That's not connected to a born Again from above Christian. God created science. Nothing can be discovered that's not already there. All scientists and inventers use what is already in existence. If I start having a heart attack, I'm automatically praying, even as I hit the 911 button. Then I'll be praying all the way to the hospital. If I'm awake, I'll be preaching Christ Jesus in the ambulance and hospitals. Never in my Christian life did anybody not know that I'm a Christian.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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I am learning a great deal from you, @Bible Highlighter, and would like to know your thoughts on doctrines such as justification, sanctification, and salvation.
How do you study this from the KJV?
Check my write-up here, brother:

 
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