Open Debate Challenge on My Defending the KJV as the Perfect Word for Today in English

[Grailhunter]

Not too long ago you were defending the idea that the KJV was in error somehow. But my point is that words in Greek can have different meanings just like English. Now, you agree with me. You are backpedaling.

We have not that got that deep into the languages yet so no I am not back peddling.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Inaccuracies within the King James Version of the translation of the Bible. I am going to start with one of the more serious issues….

1. The Comma Johanneum as it is referred to, originated as a common literary explanation or formula for the Trinity. It first appeared in the 4th century in some of the literature, not the Bible, which debated the oneness concepts of the Trinity. Even though this formula would become very popular, at the time, very few Church Fathers agreed with it.

At some point this short summary of the Trinity made its way into the margin notes of some of the Bibles that were written after the 5th century. Unlike other examples of popular margin notes that made their way into the scriptures, the Comma Johanneum found its way into the verses of the Bible by way of another avenue. After the 6th century, the Byzantines begain to recopy and retranslate the available Greek texts of the New Testament. At this point some of these copies became known as the “Textus Receptus.” It was in some of these that the formula was added and then later included in some of the Bibles. Most notably the King James Version, which relied heavily on these texts. As it happened the Comma Johanneum Addition was much more than a retranslation, or an addition, but rather a replacement of the original scriptures with a popular theological explanation for the Trinity. They kept the verse numbers in sequence so that it would not be as noticeable.

The scriptures involved are 1st John 5:7&8. The original scriptures read as follows... (Quoting 6 through 8, so it can be read in context)

“6. This is the one who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. 7. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is the truth. 8. And it is the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.”

This was replaced with what came to be called the Comma Johanneum Addition. Verses 7 and 8 are the added lines.

6: This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7: For there are three that bear record in Heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8: And there are three that bear witness in Earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

As one can see there is no chance that these are simply a different translation, but rather a removal of the scriptures and an insertion of a theological statement for an intended purpose. Still and it is important to note, that this corruption of the scriptures occurred centuries before the King James Version, the King James Version just adopted the corruption.

I presented my case for the Comma here in my PDF:



But seeing you simply just ignored the grammar points, I am not holding out any hope you are going to accept any new information that may burst your current bubble of information you prefer.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

We have not that got that deep into the languages yet so no I am not back peddling.

Again, you have to be qualified to be able to claim you know how to deal with the Koine Greek. Seeing you are not willing to deal with Georgios, why would I have confidence in discussing the original languages with you. You are not dealing with the grammar issues. You put up a wall of ignorance. You have chosen to live in a bubble world of false information that you only prefer to see.

 

[Grailhunter]

I presented my case for the Comma here in my PDF:



But seeing you simply just ignored the grammar points, I am not holding out any hope you are going to accept any new information that may burst your current bubble of information you prefer.

Again this is a simple thing. They have the manuscripts where the Comma was a margin note and scriptures were in the "original" wording. Then later the Comma appears in newer texts. In college they had pictures of these manuscripts. Very simple to see.

 

[Grailhunter]

Again, you have to be qualified to be able to claim you know how to deal with the Koine Greek. Seeing you are not willing to deal with Georgios, why would I have confidence in discussing the original languages. You are not dealing with the grammar issues. You put up a wall of ignorance. This is why you believe in a flat Earth, and other ridiculous things. You have chosen to live in a bubble world of information that you only prefer.

I never said I believe in a flat earth. I have run into your type so many times, when they are losing a debate they start saying crazy things.

I have dealt with you before…..you get rude….guess it is your nature. I could say you are stupid and uneducated…..But I have seen a lot of people that have educated themselves and were knowledgeable. And I have run into people that the KJV represents God to them. Just like the Geneva Bible and Tyndale Bibles before, they are just translations of the scriptures and they are only as good as their accuracy.

And if you are saying that the people that wrote these texts where grammarians….they are not.

 

[Christian Soldier]

I'm not the one who believes in a forever burning hell, you are.

Do you also believe in the broad and narrow way? (few find it)

[

Ok, now you admit you don't believe what God said, that hell is eternal torment in hellfire. Do you want me to unload a truck load of verses to drown you in evidence???.... So you don't believe in the God who revealed Himself in the Bible. At least I know where you stand now.

Jesus spoke about the broad way and the narrow way, He did say that only a few find the narrow way, so how does that go against anything I have been saying. It supports the doctrine of election and predestination to salvation.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Again this is a simple thing. They have the manuscripts where the Comma was a margin note and scriptures were in the "original" wording. Then later the Comma appears in newer texts. In college they had pictures of these manuscripts. Very simple to see.

The information you learned comes from the Modern scholars who are in the habit of lying, just like the Democrats do with the polling data, etcetera. Cyprian quoted the Comma. There are many early church writers who defend it. You obviously have no clue of Fernando’s research paper that goes in-depth on it (Note: You can check it out in the PDF). It’s like the grammar issue you are not dealing with. You are living in a fantasy world and not dealing with reality. This is your MO.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Again this is a simple thing. They have the manuscripts where the Comma was a margin note and scriptures were in the "original" wording. Then later the Comma appears in newer texts. In college they had pictures of these manuscripts. Very simple to see.

Again, you have bought into a false narrative from the Modern Scholars.
Why would I say they are lying to you? Because I can prove that they lied to us before.

1. They lied to us about the Revised Version being the version set for in 1611.
2. They lied to us by moving the verses around to hide the fact that there would be an empty spot for verse 7 where the Comma should be at (Note: Part of verse 6 was moved to fill the spot in verse 7 in the RV. Later this was changed by moving a part of 8 to replace the Comma instead).
3. They say we have more manuscript discoveries than ever before, which are better. This is a lie. The King James Bible still has the most manuscript witnesses, with it being 5,800 manuscripts.
4. They say all Bibles say the same thing. This is a lie. They do not all say the same thing.
5. They say all Bibles teach the same doctrine. This is a lie. Not all Bibles teach the same doctrines.
6. NKJV deception. They said it was based on the Textus Receptus. This is not entirely true. There are some verses where the NKJV does not always follow the Textus Receptus in the Greek NT. So they lied. They also said initially that they would not expose us to the Westcott and Hort text, and then later changed this in their full version NKJV with the Nestle and Aland footnotes (Which was not present in the New Testament version of the NKJV).
7. The cover of their Modern Bible that says, Holy Bible is a deception and or lie. They don’t believe it is really holy but a holey Bible, a book full of errors and not divine.
8. They say the word of God is inspired as if to suggest there is such a thing in existence today (When that is not the case).

There are many more such lies that they promote.

 

[Johann]

Again, you have bought into a false narrative from the Modern Scholars.
Why would I say they are lying to you? Because I can prove that they lied to us before.

1. They lied to us about the Revised Version being the version set for in 1611.
2. They lied to us by moving the verses around to hide the fact that there would be an empty spot for verse 7 where the Comma should be at (Note: Part of verse 6 was moved to fill the spot in verse 7 in the RV. Later this was changed by moving a part of 8 to replace the Comma instead).
3. They say we have more manuscript discoveries than ever before, which are better. This is a lie. The King James Bible still has the most manuscript witnesses, with it being 5,800 manuscripts.
4. They say all Bibles say the same thing. This is a lie. They do not all say the same thing.
5. They say all Bibles teach the same doctrine. This is a lie. Not all Bibles teach the same doctrines.
6. NKJV deception. They said it was based on the Textus Receptus. This is not entirely true. There are some verses where the NKJV does not always follow the Textus Receptus in the Greek NT. So they lied. They also said initially that they would not expose us to the Westcott and Hort text, and then later changed this in their full version NKJV with the Nestle and Aland footnotes (Which was not present in the New Testament version of the NKJV).
7. The cover of their Modern Bible that says, Holy Bible is a deception and or lie. They don’t believe it is really holy but a holey Bible, a book full of errors and not divine.
8. They say the word of God is inspired as if to suggest there is such a thing in existence today (When that is not the case).

There are many more such lies that they promote.

 

[Johann]

I am learning a great deal from you, @Bible Highlighter, and would like to know your thoughts on doctrines such as justification, sanctification, and salvation.
How do you study this from the KJV?

 

[Grailhunter]

The information you learned comes from the Modern scholars who are in the habit of lying, just like the Democrats do with the polling data, etcetera. Cyprian quoted the Comma. There are many early church writers who defend it. You obviously have no clue of Fernando’s research paper that goes in-depth on it (Note: You can check it out in the PDF). It’s like the grammar issue you are not dealing with. You are living in a fantasy world and not dealing with reality. This is your MO.

And you don’t think I have ran into this to. The scholars don’t know anything it is the amateurs that know it all. Don’t believe in college education and professionals….LOL Next time you have surgery let a butcher do it.

Grammar...not that complicated. Grade their paper give them a D and early Christian writers did not define the Trinity as three in one. The term came early but not thr three in one formula. I can produce the writings, can you? The three in one formula was a doctrine that the Roman Catholic Church came up with to stop the arguments so they shoved it down the throats of Christians upon pain of excommunication or death

 

[Grailhunter]

Again, you have bought into a false narrative from the Modern Scholars.
Why would I say they are lying to you? Because I can prove that they lied to us before.

1. They lied to us about the Revised Version being the version set for in 1611.
2. They lied to us by moving the verses around to hide the fact that there would be an empty spot for verse 7 where the Comma should be at (Note: Part of verse 6 was moved to fill the spot in verse 7 in the RV. Later this was changed by moving a part of 8 to replace the Comma instead).
3. They say we have more manuscript discoveries than ever before, which are better. This is a lie. The King James Bible still has the most manuscript witnesses, with it being 5,800 manuscripts.
4. They say all Bibles say the same thing. This is a lie. They do not all say the same thing.
5. They say all Bibles teach the same doctrine. This is a lie. Not all Bibles teach the same doctrines.
6. NKJV deception. They said it was based on the Textus Receptus. This is not entirely true. There are some verses where the NKJV does not always follow the Textus Receptus in the Greek NT. So they lied. They also said initially that they would not expose us to the Westcott and Hort text, and then later changed this in their full version NKJV with the Nestle and Aland footnotes (Which was not present in the New Testament version of the NKJV).
7. The cover of their Modern Bible that says, Holy Bible is a deception and or lie. They don’t believe it is really holy but a holey Bible, a book full of errors and not divine.
8. They say the word of God is inspired as if to suggest there is such a thing in existence today (When that is not the case).

There are many more such lies that they promote.

You have said so many things here that are wrong or miss represented I do not know where to start. But it still comes down to the belief that the educated and professionals are all wrong….that amateurs are right. At this point you sound like something like conspiracy theorist or a cult leader

And if you did not have any other source there would not be any reason to reference the Textus Receptus.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I never said I believe in a flat earth.

You imply it in this post here.
I only had to keep pushing you to speak clearly until you finally admitted that it was not flat with normal speech.

I have run into your type so many times, when they are losing a debate they start saying crazy things.

Sorry, I am only relaying the craziness that is found within your own posts. You are a liberal based on reality. As I said to you before, a Christian is labeled a liberal if they accept Evolution. This is based on the Christian community at large. I did not create this criteria.

I have dealt with you before…..you get rude….guess it is your nature. I could say you are stupid and uneducated…..

I believe you are uneducated and you are unable to analyze properly new data or information. I told you about the Greek grammar errors that are present if the Comma is removed and I just get crickets from you on that. You brush that point under the rug as if it does not exist. You are uneducated in this area. Totally clueless and you want me to treat you like you are schooled? You don’t even know all of the issues involved that are in defense of the Comma. All you are about is pushing your narrative.

But I have seen a lot of people that have educated themselves and were knowledgeable. And I have run into people that the KJV represents God to them.

How do we know about God?
Is it not from the Bible?
If it is from the Bible, then which Bible?
Not all Bibles say the same thing.
Not all Greek manuscripts even say the same thing.

Just like the Geneva Bible and Tyndale Bibles before, they are just translations of the scriptures and they are only as good as their accuracy.

Well, I can say that they are not the precise words of God. That would be correct. But the KJV is the preserved Word of God for today because of the good fruit it has brought about in history with the three greatest revivals.

And if you are saying that the people that wrote these texts where grammarians….they are not.

I am saying the KJV translators and the men who helped to put forth the TR manuscript Greek editions were surely expert in the grammar of the Greek. I mentioned Professor Georgios Babiniotis. Nick Sayers sked him about the validity of the claims of legendary Greek professor Eugenius Voulgaris concerning the Johannine Comma involving his grammatical defense of the Comma. Eugenius Voulgaris who lived in the past was Greek Orthodox. He was also a Greek grammarian.

 

[Johann]

And you don’t think I have ran into this to. The scholars don’t know anything it is the amateurs that know it all. Don’t believe in college education and professionals….LOL Next time you have surgery let a butcher do it.

Grammar...not that complicated. Grade their paper give them a D and early Christian writers did not define the Trinity as three in one. The term came early but not thr thrre in one formula. I can produce the writings, can you? The three in one formula was a doctrine that the Roman Catholic Church came up with to stop the arguments so they shoved it down the throats of Christians upon pain of excommunication or death

So far I think @Bible Highlighter is winning this debate hands down. I sense a nervous "Lol"

 

[Grailhunter]

You imply it in this post here.
I only had to keep pushing you to speak clearly until you finally admitted that it was not flat with normal speech.

No I was saying that it would be easier for you to argue that the world was flat than the KJV was accurate.

 

[Grailhunter]

Sorry, I am only relaying the craziness that is found within your own posts. You are a liberal based on reality. As I said to you before, a Christian is labeled a liberal if they accept Evolution. This is based on the Christian community at large. I did not create this criteria.

LOL I am not liberal.....into the truth

 

[Grailhunter]

I believe you are uneducated and you are unable to analyze properly new data or information. I

No I have already analyzed it....old hat.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You have said so many things here that are wrong or miss represented I do not know where to start. But it still comes down to the belief that the educated and professionals are all wrong….that amateurs are right. At this point you sound like something like conspiracy theorist or a cult leader

There you go with the false accusations. KJV advocates are commonly called cultists or that they are in a cult. It is nothing new. Jesus said we would be falsely accused. So thank you. I will rejoice in God my Savior for your false accusation.

As for the conspiracy theorist statement:

So you don’t think any conspiracies of any kind exist ever in life. I generally do not get into many of them in life. I know some like to get in on the 9/11 event as a conspiracy. It may be one. I am not really interested that it was one because most people will see it as crazy (even if it was one). But when it comes to the topic of the Bible, there are two streams of Bibles out there today. One is corrupt and the other is pure. Those who are attached to the corrupt line of Bibles do not always deal fairly. They have employed deception. These are facts that I can document and show to other people and they can make up their own mind. But using the scarecrow tactic that conspiracy theories are bad as if to imply that deceptions don’t exist in the Modern Bible Movement is pretty silly. Anyone who is unbiased and able to look at both sides of the issue fairly will be able to see the deceptions involved on the corrupt line of Bibles. But your liberal so I am not holding my breath you are going to see what I am talking about anytime soon. But I pray of course that will change.

And if you did not have any other source there would not be any reason to reference the Textus Receptus.

There are many evidences why we believe the TR / KJV has the hand of God upon it.
Not sure giving these reasons is going to convince you. You clearly are set in your ways.

 

[Grailhunter]

I believe you are uneducated and you are unable to analyze properly new data or information. I told you about the Greek grammar errors that are present if the Comma is removed and I just get crickets from you on that. You brush that point under the rug as if it does not exist. You are uneducated in this area. Totally clueless and you want me to treat you like you are schooled? You don’t even know all of the issues involved that are in defense of the Comma. All you are about is pushing your narrative.

As far as I am concerned they read fine. You are not specific about your concern so how can I respond?

7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

 

[Grailhunter]

So far I think @Bible Highlighter is winning this debate hands down. I sense a nervous "Lol"

LOL