Only Believers are Resurrected?

[GEN2REV]

We have been all trying. Cut us a bit of slack, since we took the time to respond.
I don't think you really enjoy just posting to yourself. Or am I mistaken.

Speaking of arrogance.

You don't speak for every single member that has posted in this thread.

And, frankly, I'm not fond of your very immature confrontational attitude.

You've been presented with perfectly legitimate arguments, and evidence, for contrary positions to yours, and you conveniently brush them off and ignore them only to continue your assault of disagreeing questions and challenges.

I have no interest in bickering with anybody. If you can't maintain an emotion-less debate, I have nothing else to say to you.

For the SECOND time now.

 

[The Disciple John]

Because they are resurrected. During the 1000 years the devil is chained by circumstance. Only he and his angels on earth. None to tempt. None to use in his rebellion. He is loosed from that chain when the wicked are raised to face their sentence... They have already been judged guilty, now is the time to face the execution of that judgement... Which is the second death. There can be no second death without a second resurrection. Those in the first resurrection are not subject to the second death.

I want to consider this with you.
You said, "He [Satan] is loosed from that chain when the wicked are raised to face their sentence."
Which scripture are you applying to "the wicked are raised to face their sentence" and "They have already been judged guilty"?

You said, "There can be no second death without a second resurrection"?
If you mean that the second resurrection is the one that is after the first - which involves only the saints - but involves those mentioned at Acts 15:24, which is not the wicked, we agree.
However, I think you are saying, the second resurrection is only for the wicked?

 

[The Disciple John]

Speaking of arrogance.

You don't speak for every single member that has posted in this thread.

And, frankly, I'm not fond of your very immature confrontational attitude.

You've been presented with perfectly legitimate arguments, and evidence, for contrary positions to yours and you conveniently brush them off and ignore them only to continue your assault of disagreeing questions and challenges.

I have no interest in bickering with anybody. If you can't maintain an emotion-less debate, I have nothing else to say to you.

For the SECOND time now.

You don't listen to yourself, do you? Have a good day.

 

[Taken]

I have a really hard time believing that you honestly expect anybody to respond to SIX FEET of text, Taken.

No I don’t expect any particular people to read or respond to what I write.
I fully expect most people are too busy to read for 10 minutes, when repeating and arguing posting to thousands of pages of the same topic is so much more fun!!

And yet those who Jesus Himself says are IN Christ can be removed from His vine, cast away and burned for their not remaining in His Truth.
John 15:2
John 15:6

No, that Scripture does NOT SAY, “IN Christ”.
Jesus IS the VINE, (Jesus IS the Word), men are the branches.

John 15:
[5] I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Disagree with you, as you MAKE abiding in Jesus, MEAN abiding IN Christ.

Abiding in Jesus, is a man BELIEVING, following, WITHOUT being CONVERTED.
Yes, a man IN Jesus, can DO well “as long as that man endures his belief”, IN Jesus.
* IN Christ....already explained to you: that I can neither read or understand for you.
Such a man “IN” Jesus;
MUST endure to his end of life; (to then become Converted)
Such a man CAN be enticed by evil spirits, wicked men;
Such a man IS WARNED to endure to his end of physical life;
Such a man CAN FALL AWAY.

Abiding IN Christ, IS abiding IN Gods Spirit, Wisdom, Seed, Power.
That man CAN NEVER be broken off, Separated from God.
Abiding IN Christ, IS Abiding IN “WISDOM”, Gods Wisdom, to KNOW the Understanding of Gods WORD, who IS Jesus!

These are those who are drawn away by doctrines of demons and embrace lies and false doctrine. That is who basically removes themselves from the Vine and is cast away and burned.

Not news, and DOES NOT APPLY to those “IN” Christ!

 

[Taken]

When you use Revelation as your rock-solid proof of a position, you are building your house upon the sand.

Revelation is a book of signs and symbols ... per Revelation.

What? Wow!

Revelation
[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
[2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

IF you recall, JESUS is the TRUE WORD of God.
IF you recall, JESUS CAN NOT LIE!
IF you recall, CHRIST is the Wisdom, Power, Spirit, Seed of God.

Symbolism is “what a man resorts to when he can not TRUST to Believe Jesus or patience to Understand Gods Word; via Christ’s Wisdom;
* EVERY WORD out of the mouth of JESUS IS TRUE!

Absolutely MEN IN Christ can rock-solid rely on Jesus Word and Christ’s Wisdom! And Revelations is A rock-solid book to rely on hearing, reading things that were hidden to be made Revealed!

1 Cor 2:
[7] But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1 Pet 3:
[4] But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

Luke 12:
[2] For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.

Some men recognize what IS revealed, while other men dismiss what IS revealed.

A bit surprising for one on a Christian forum, to flat out openly dismiss what IS revealed.

 

[Taken]

I

...just a parable, but it doesn't follow parable pattern at all. Jesus never explains its parable meaning and it uses proper names of Lazarus and Abraham.

Jesus’ Parables DO follow the pattern of a Parable. Are Parables.
But then, mans Understanding is but foolish, compared to Gods Understanding.

Jesus taught in Parables...to fulfill foretold prophecy. (Pss 72: 2)
* Doesn’t matter if Jesus taught in what men call parables, bed-time stories, fables, nursery rhymes....Jesus can NOT LIE. Every word out of Jesus’ mouth is Truth.

* Scripture IS KNOWLEDGE.
* The Understanding of Knowledge, of Scripture, is given a Converted man, by, through, of the Spirit of God (Christ), IN a man.

Pss 72:
[1] Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.
[2] I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:

Some will LISTEN to His Words, trust to believe, wait for the Understanding.
Some will Hear His Words, dismiss them, or try to individually with their MIND to figure out what he means. <—- error, private interpretation.

 

[Taken]

There is no Millennium after Christ returns.

Well first of all it was “the Son of Man” who was SENT and CAME to Earth “without His POWER” and LEFT Earth “WITH” His Power
and “the Son of Man”, who shall RETURN to Earth “WITH” His Power.

Phil 2:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Matt 24:
[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Earthly EYES can NOT SEE God.
They Shall SEE the Son of Man, whom God prepared Him a body FOR men TO SEE.
No man SEES Christ. Knowing Jesus IS the Christ, is one thing.
SEEING Christ, is what Converted men, Saved men SHALL SEE. (A man risen in his glorious body, shall SEE God as He IS, Spirit, and men raised in glory, shall be LIKE HIM.
Jesus WITH His Power....IS Jesus’ Reputation.
Jesus IN the body God Prepared....IS HOW unsaved men WILL SEE Him.
Those WHO will SEE the Son of Man, as the Son of Man...WILL mourn...
....MOURNING is a Sadness. Oops, didn’t believe in Jesus, the Word of God, IN Christ, the Spirit, Power, Wisdom, Seed of God.

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Vague non-specific speech is more of a detriment than a path toward understanding.

Yes, there is a millennial reign ON Earth.
It is Jesus’ Earthly Kingdom, with His Saints, (ie; His Converted IN Christ), His Holy Angels, and Mortals repopulating the Earth, (outside of Jesus’ Kingdom) and Satan and his band of fallen angels sequestered in Hell.

* Jesus’ Earthly Kingdom shall encompass, the Exact Land given Abraham, and the Exact Everlasting Throne God Established and First seated king David.
* Outside of Jesus’ Earthly Kingdom mortals shall occupy, building cities, Nations, appointing lords and kings to govern over the people.
* After the 1,000 years, Satan and his fallen angels are loosed, and AGAIN shall deceive the Nations, many people shall WAR Against Jesus’ Kingdom, from All directions...
* Jesus’ Holy Angels SHALL defeat once and forever Satan and his band of fallen angels.
* Jesus WITH HIS word and His POWER, (ie double edged sword), shall Divide those mortals WITH Him, Save Them, and KILL mortals AGAINST Him.
* The Saved shall be raised in the First mass Resurrection of the Saved, when thereafter the millennial reign, the Earth and Heavens are renewed.

It’s all in Scripture, for the benefit of anyone to hear and read.
The Spiritual Understanding is given BY God Himself, to those IN Christ.

 

[Brakelite]

When you use Revelation as your rock-solid proof of a position, you are building your house upon the sand.

Revelation is a book of signs and symbols ... per Revelation.

All of you just keep going back to Rev. 20 for every single one of your end-all, be-all points to prove all matters on this topic.

When you can prove your points, with plain Scripture, outside of Revelation, I will consider them more seriously.

You reject Revelation but go to Enoch? Your credibility is waning.

 

[GEN2REV]

You reject Revelation but go to Enoch? Your credibility is waning.

I reject doctrine that is founded upon a symbolic, non-literal, non-linear book ALONE, without any other Scripture to support it, yes.

Enoch was undebatably in the Bible at one time.
Enoch is referenced in Scripture in multiple places.
Enoch has countless parallel wordings, teachings, etc.

It may not be Biblical Canon, which was decided by man, but it is significant enough to study as a supplement to Scripture.

Do you have specific documentation of it contradicting Scripture anywhere, or vice versa?

 

[GEN2REV]

@Backlit

Did you miss (ignore and hope it wouldn't be brought up again) this:

Rev. 20:10-15 is a re-stating of 1 Cor. 15:21-27. There are many parallels there.

See for yourself: Amillennialism versus Dispensationalism

 

[Brakelite]

@Backlit

Did you miss (ignore and hope it wouldn't be brought up again) this:

Just like Matthew 24, where Jesus mentioned events taking place at two districtly different times, some before the destruction of Jerusalem, some at His second coming, a fact which has confused many such as preterists and others who don't believe they had any reference to the second coming at all, I believe you are conflating different events at different times. Peters text for example speaks of the earth being burnt up, similar to Malachi 3 right? And Revelation 20 is not a restatement of Corinthians. There are only vague similarities, and a forced relationship between the two. There is a much more harmonious eschatological framework of one takes old testament typology into account and applies it. For example, every seventh year special provision was made for the poor. The sabbatical year, as it was called, began at the end of the harvest. (See Revelation 14:14-19) At the seedtime, which followed the ingathering, the people were not to sow (there will be no sowing if they're none on the earth to do such during the millennium); they should not dress the vineyard in the spring; and they must expect neither harvest nor vintage (During the 7000th millennial Sabbath of which the 7th day is a type, the earth itself will have it's rest which for the previous 6000 years it had none except in very few instances and few localities). Exodus 23:10, 11; Leviticus 25:5.
There are other typologies in THE OT one can see are in fact prophetic statements regarding current and future events. The Day of Atonement and other feast days were typological to real events...

• Passover, first-fruits... Calvary... Resurrection
• 50 days later... Pentecost

The above 3 feasts were really in the antitypical religious year. The Spring. Later in the year, in Autumn, the feasts were

• The feast of trumpets and Day of Atonement
• Feast of tabernacles

The above antitypical feasts had there modern (relatively recent and current typical fulfilments...a much deeper and longer study). Why recent? Because we are at the end of man's probation on earth. At the close of the day of atonement the High Priest (Jesus) leaves the sanctuary in heaven to return for His people. Intercession is over, His mediatorial role is finished on behalf on man and Christ now comes as King of kings.
I will leave it to you to study these things deeper and take them into account. I can link you to resources if you wish.

 

[GEN2REV]

Just like Matthew 24, where Jesus mentioned events taking place at two districtly different times, some before the destruction of Jerusalem, some at His second coming, a fact which has confused many such as preterists and others who don't believe they had any reference to the second coming at all, I believe you are conflating different events at different times. Peters text for example speaks of the earth being burnt up, similar to Malachi 3 right? And Revelation 20 is not a restatement of Corinthians. There are only vague similarities, and a forced relationship between the two. There is a much more harmonious eschatological framework of one takes old testament typology into account and applies it. For example, every seventh year special provision was made for the poor. The sabbatical year, as it was called, began at the end of the harvest. (See Revelation 14:14-19) At the seedtime, which followed the ingathering, the people were not to sow (there will be no sowing if they're none on the earth to do such during the millennium); they should not dress the vineyard in the spring; and they must expect neither harvest nor vintage (During the 7000th millennial Sabbath of which the 7th day is a type, the earth itself will have it's rest which for the previous 6000 years it had none except in very few instances and few localities). Exodus 23:10, 11; Leviticus 25:5.
There are other typologies in THE OT one can see are in fact prophetic statements regarding current and future events. The Day of Atonement and other feast days were typological to real events...

• Passover, first-fruits... Calvary... Resurrection
• 50 days later... Pentecost

The above 3 feasts were really in the antitypical religious year. The Spring. Later in the year, in Autumn, the feasts were

• The feast of trumpets and Day of Atonement
• Feast of tabernacles

The above antitypical feasts had there modern (relatively recent and current typical fulfilments...a much deeper and longer study). Why recent? Because we are at the end of man's probation on earth. At the close of the day of atonement the High Priest (Jesus) leaves the sanctuary in heaven to return for His people. Intercession is over, His mediatorial role is finished on behalf on man and Christ now comes as King of kings.
I will leave it to you to study these things deeper and take them into account. I can link you to resources if you wish.

Well then you didn't read it at all.

The devil doesn't get dealt with twice.
Death doesn't get dealt with twice.
Jesus doesn't turn over His kingdom twice, etc.

No worries. Here's the post so you don't have to go to the inconvenience of clicking on the link and the post appearing on your screen from a different thread.

"There is an interesting parallel between Rev. 20:10-15 and 1 Cor. 15:21-27 that is very significant.

More proof of Pre-Mil being a sham.

Take a look.

These verses: Revelation 20:10-11 align with these verses: 1 Corinthians 15:25-27

These verses: Revelation 20:12-13 align with this verse 1 Corinthians 15:21 and these verses 1 Corinthians 15:25-26

And these verses: Revelation 20:14-15 align with this verse 1 Corinthians 15:26

This passage in 1 Cor 15 clearly shows Jesus returning, one resurrection, judgment of all wickedness including death, the turning over of the kingdom to the Father and THE END.

Therefore, if Rev. 20 is a re-stating of 1 Cor. 15, Pre-Mil has a huge problem. Another one, that is."

 

[L.A.M.B.]

I will say my final piece here and now.

God,the Father,God,the Son, and God,the Holy Spirit created man in his image to have fellowship with and receive glory and honour from.

Because of one man's sin, which brought about death ( spiritual), Adam being the first to created to worship God has caused us also to be separated from God at our natural physical birth.

God so loved his creature that a covenant was made with the lamb to be the final sacrificial way to redeem man to God! This is the only way. We see that by the Mosiac law the sacrifices only put forward their sin until the next year,it was a short term cleansing.

Jesus is the PROPITIATION for all sin of all men, WHOSOEVER will let him come. We under the convicting power of the Holy Spirit get to either choose or reject the gift of salvation!
Today is the day of YOUR salvation!

Salvation is a done deal once the gift is accepted , it is the walk of faith thereafter, surrendered to God's word and his way, that is where the testing and growing of faith occurs.

When we remain faithful and let God do his work through us by loving him only and loving our fellow man, then we are on the straight path. Either by natural death or endurance when Jesus second coming happens, then his followers will become his bride and must stand before the judgement seat of Christ.

Having been judged by the deeds,works, and our walk we receive rewards accordingly. We are spared the wrath of the Father against the unjust,decieved and wicked . Afterwards we will set up as judges here on earth for a thousand years judging. Jesus will execute that judgment by his rod of iron.

After the thousand years ALL will be resurrected to face God at his white throne. Those accepting of Jesus now, he will claim and acknowledge before the Father.
Those who have rejected him, he also will address as never having known them! They WILL face God and stand alone.

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of a living God.

 

[JunChosen]

There is a first resurrection, over whom the second death has no authority. Revelation 20:5-6

What in your estimation is the meaning of the "first resurrection?"

The first resurrection is for those who will be kings and priest with Christ for the thousand years. Revelation 20:6

If the above is for those only who will be kings and priests why then are they living/reigning with Christ for a thousand years only and NOT for ever?

Secondly, how can you prove there is such a thing as a millennium reign of Christ in this sin-cursed earth He came to destroy anyways.

Thirdly, where are you going to put the millennium period in God's scheme of things?

To God Be The Glory

 

[Brakelite]

Well then you didn't read it at all.

The devil doesn't get dealt with twice.
Death doesn't get dealt with twice.
Jesus doesn't turn over His kingdom twice, etc.

No worries. Here's the post so you don't have to go to the inconvenience of clicking on the link and the post appearing on your screen from a different thread.

"There is an interesting parallel between Rev. 20:10-15 and 1 Cor. 15:21-27 that is very significant.

More proof of Pre-Mil being a sham.

Take a look.

These verses: Revelation 20:10-11 align with these verses: 1 Corinthians 15:25-27

These verses: Revelation 20:12-13 align with this verse 1 Corinthians 15:21 and these verses 1 Corinthians 15:25-26

And these verses: Revelation 20:14-15 align with this verse 1 Corinthians 15:26

This passage in 1 Cor 15 clearly shows Jesus returning, one resurrection, judgment of all wickedness including death, the turning over of the kingdom to the Father and THE END.

Therefore, if Rev. 20 is a re-stating of 1 Cor. 15, Pre-Mil has a huge problem. Another one, that is."

1 Corinthians 15 is about the resurrection, true. But a resurrection for who? You attempt to make it for everyone, but the context is...
KJV 1 Corinthians 15:18, 22-23, 42-44, 51-54
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

You claim that God doesn't have the capability to raise sinners who do not have Christ, which not only denigrates the power of God, but that is a massive assumption considering scripture says...
KJV John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

There is no reason to conjecture that this takes place at the same time. There is clearly two distinctly different kinds of resurrections. One of the righteous, one for the wicked. Other descriptions throughout scripture of the second coming bear no hint or suggestion that the wicked are raised at this time along with the righteous. And to do as some here are claiming, to introduce a third category of Christians who are wicked... Come on. Further evidence of the resurrection at the second coming being only for the redeemed...
KJV John 6:39-40, 44, 54
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Writing off Revelation as all symbolic and therefore cannot be used as a source of truth is desperate. Are you suggesting the symbols cannot be understood? Are you suggesting that "revelation' means something other than revealing something?
Revelation 20 explains the second resurrection as first revealed on John 5.

Who else would die twice... Second death... Other than those who died in their sins without Christ as their Savior? How could they die twice unless they were resurrected first?
God is a God of justice. Fairness. His character is vindicated in everything He does. All judicial matters are open and available for inspection. Even He came to earth to verify the reports of evil before He acted, such as Babel and Sodom.
KJV Genesis 11:5
5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
KJV Genesis 18:20-21
20 And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous,
21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
Therefore, because God desires to do all things openly and transparently, he will not simply destroy or punish billions of souls without investigation and without due process. Modern courts and justice systems are by and large derived from scripture precedence. There are legal terms, references, and processes scattered throughout scripture. The wicked will not be destroyed without them knowing and understanding exactly why they are being destroyed, and be made fully aware of the fact that in their lives they all had opportunity for repentance. They will have no excuses. Their whole lives will be revealed. Nothing shall be hidden but will be made known. All the wicked will finally confess that Jesus is indeed Lord, and know of a surety that their ultimate death and destruction is fully justified, and the rest of creation... The angels, inhabitants of other worlds, and the redeemed will also know without any doubts that God is love and in Him is no wickedness at all. Satan's lies and accusations against the character of God will be finally seen as they truly are. And all the process will vindicate everything God had accomplished throughout history and His dealings with mankind, thus preserving the universe for all eternity from sin and rebellion rising again.
The millennium is real. It is a literal 1000 year period of time where the saints judge angels and inspect the lives of the wicked before they are raised to face their final sentencing. Nothing that is hidden shall not be made plain.

 

[JunChosen]

God so loved his creature that a covenant was made with the lamb to be the final sacrificial way to redeem man to God!

The exact words are: "God GAVE His only Son!"

Jesus is the PROPITIATION for all sin of all men, WHOSOEVER will let him come. We under the convicting power of the Holy Spirit get to either choose or reject the gift of salvation!

However NO ONE will come!

Romans 3:10-11 reads:
10) AS IT IS WRITTEN, there is none righteous, no, not one
11) There is none that understandeth, THERE IS NONE THAT SEEKETH AFTER GOD.

If there is none righteous, and none that will seek after God, who then can be saved?
N-O-N-E, N-A-D-A, Z-L-C-H, Z-E-R-O.

Well, only those whom God have chosen/elected to salvation from eternity past and before the foundation of the world, and have given to His Son will become saved!

Today is the day of YOUR salvation!

Rather, today is still the day of Salvation.

Salvation is a done deal once the gift is accepted

But there is none that can [have power] accept the gift unless you boast. The gift is given Only to the true believers.

[QUOTE="L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d, post: 1280928, member: 18023"]It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of a living God.[/QUOTE]

Rather it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God WHO CAN DESTROY BOTH BODY AND SOUL IN HELL

To God Be The Glory

 

[GEN2REV]

You claim that God doesn't have the capability to raise sinners who do not have Christ, which not only denigrates the power of God, but that is a massive assumption...

I never, ever, said God is incapable of anything. LIAR.

I said those people without spiritual life inside them are not able to be raised.

There is clearly two distinctly different kinds of resurrections.

Nope. The ONLY thing that is clear is that there are two outcomes to THE resurrection. That's all. Some get life, some get damnation.

Writing off Revelation as all symbolic and therefore cannot be used as a source of truth is desperate.

More blatant LIES. I never said Revelation is not a source of Truth. Just because you misinterpret it, doesn't make the book itself faulty in any way.

Revelation 20 explains the second resurrection as first revealed on John 5.

It does nothing of the sort. It doesn't even contain the words Second Resurrection. What it does do is re-state the already existing passages, found elsewhere in Scripture, that discuss the resurrection at Christ's return.

Who else would die twice... Second death... Other than those who died in their sins without Christ as their Savior? How could they die twice unless they were resurrected first?

Simple.

They die physically once, ... they're resurrected ... they die a second time spiritually.

Kindergarten math.

Therefore, because God desires to do all things openly and transparently, he will not simply destroy or punish billions of souls without investigation and without due process.

Who suggested they wouldn't get a fair judgment? If you're imagining people will get the opportunity to argue with God about their intentions, and actions, etc., that is just silliness.

How do you argue with the Creator of all that is, who witnessed every single thought, word and deed we ever had?

The wicked will not be destroyed without them knowing and understanding exactly why they are being destroyed, and be made fully aware of the fact that in their lives they all had opportunity for repentance. They will have no excuses. Their whole lives will be revealed. Nothing shall be hidden but will be made known.

Exactly and that contradicts nothing I've stated.

The millennium is real. It is a literal 1000 year period of time where the saints judge angels and inspect the lives of the wicked before they are raised to face their final sentencing. Nothing that is hidden shall not be made plain.

No, it's just not real.

It is not a literal 1,000 years. Everything after that I'm in full agreement with.

 

[The Disciple John]

What in your estimation is the meaning of the "first resurrection?"

If the above is for those only who will be kings and priests why then are they living/reigning with Christ for a thousand years only and NOT for ever?

Secondly, how can you prove there is such a thing as a millennium reign of Christ in this sin-cursed earth He came to destroy anyways.

Thirdly, where are you going to put the millennium period in God's scheme of things?

To God Be The Glory

Thanks for asking JunChosen.
You asked well thought out and sincere questions.

If the first resurrection is for those only who will be kings and priests why then are they living/reigning with Christ for a thousand years only and NOT for ever?
The saints are kings forever. See here.

The 1,000 year rule serves a purpose.
Once it has been completed, the Bible says Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28

So the kingdom will then be in God's hands, and Christ, and the Saints remain kings under the grand king. It's just as when Christ was the prime authority and the Saints ruled alongside him. Likewise, they now rule alongside God, but there is always the primary king.
At that time, God is that one.

I like this question.. "how can you prove there is such a thing as a millennium reign of Christ in this sin-cursed earth He came to destroy anyways?"
I like it because this was something I did not know until I studied the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses.
When they showed me from the Bible, the primary message in what Jesus said to teach - the Good News of God's Kingdom (Matthew 24:14) I was sort of "blown away", but thrilled.

They showed me that God's original purpose still stands, and never changed. Genesis 1:28; Isaiah 45:18
I remember the first thing I was shown was that the earth will be transformed into a paradise under God's kingdom.
Psalms 37 quickly became my favorite scripture. In fact Jehovah's Witnesses use this scripture so often, if one forgets it, you know something is wrong with the brain neurons.

Psalms 37:9-11, 29 They connected that with Matthew 5:5, and Matthew 6:10, showing that it's a future promise.
Then the prophecies in Isaiah 11:1-9; Isaiah 65:17-25; Isaiah 33:24; Isaiah 35:5-7; Isaiah 9:6, 7 and Daniel 7:13, 14, 27; Daniel 2:44-45, as well as scriptures in Revelation 21:3-5 ...and many others.

So basically, the earth will be transformed, once the wicked are removed. It will be a paradise with humans and animals living in peace, and sin and death will be gone forever.
In other words, the earth will be as God purposed it to be.
It is here to stay. Psalms 104:5 God gave it to mankind. Psalms 115:16
It was clear to me who was teaching the truth. The teaching that all good people go to heaven, and all bad people go to hell is a myth.

Once I understood that God started with a purpose, and will see it through to the end, despite Satan's interference, and God allowing it (Romans 8:18-23), and I understood what that purpose involved, studying the Bible became quite simple, and clear.
It was easy to use scriptures such as Ephesians 1:3-13 and connect them easily.
I was able to have a clear understanding of the resurrection hope of the dead, going back to Abel.
There was no conflict at all between any book in the Bible, but rather, one thread or theme running harmoniously from Genesis to Revelation.

What Jesus said was true.
Luke 24:37 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.
Luke 24:44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”

So we know that the many prophecies in the Bible relate to Christ and his future kingdom.

Where is the millennium period in God's scheme of things?
The thousand year rule begins ater Armageddon - God's war. That day will be a terrible one.
We can imagine the terror of those who died in the flood, but this day is a great one, in comparison.
Zephaniah 1:14-2:3

The Israelites experience terror both, at the time Babylon laid seige to the city, and destroyed it - taking some survivors captive, and when Rome totally destroyed Jerusalem, in 70 AD.
Josephus describes the terror under the seige, where some killed and ate their children, and vica versa, and how the Romans slaughtered them.
He said about a million died.

Jesus warned of the need to keep on the watch, and not be found sleeping.
Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. Matthew 24:42
He gave signs to watch for, so as to know when the end would be near.
Matthew 24:32-33
32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!
We see the signs that the end of Satan's system is nearing its end.

1. Before God's day of wrath begins...
Revelation 7:1-8 God seals the remaining ones of the 144,000. They are subsequently taken to heaven.

2. Satan incites the nations against God Revelation 16:13-14; Revelation 19:19 ... by attacking his people, of course. This occurs during the great tribulation. Matthew 24:21-22
That sparks the war. God cut's short the tribulation in behalf of his people.

3. Once God wipes the earth of the wicked 2 Thessalonians 1:6-9; 1 John 2:17, he turns his attention to Satan and the demons. Revelation 20:1-3

4. Jesus Millenial reign begins. Revelation 20:4-6 The first resurrection has taken place, and these along with Christ begins their role as judges and priests.
What is the meaning of the "first resurrection"?
Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
The first resurrection is the resurrection of the saints (those who rule with Christ in heaven) only - the firstfruits to God, and the lamb. Revelation 14:4 They number 144,000. Revelation 14:1

5. Jesus resurrects dead ones, during the hour he refered to at John 5:28. Judgment begins. Revelation 20:12-14
This is judgment day of 1,000 years, where people will be taught from the books of life, and if at the end, their names are not written in the book of life, they receive the second death - everlasting destruction. Revelation 20:15

6. The final test begins, when Satan is loosed for a short time. Revelation 20:7-10
That would be the end of all who oppose God.

7. Paradise restored on earth. Revelation 21:1-5
God sovereignty his right to rule - is vindicated. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28

God's purpose is accomplished.
NW - New Post Millenial Version 1:2 - Your kingdom has come. Your will be is done on earth as it is in heaven. :)

 

[Brakelite]

When you use Revelation as your rock-solid proof of a position, you are building your house upon the sand.

Revelation is a book of signs and symbols ... per Revelation.

All of you just keep going back to Rev. 20 for every single one of your end-all, be-all points to prove all matters on this topic.

When you can prove your points, with plain Scripture, outside of Revelation, I will consider them more seriously.

All scripture is suitable for doctrine. Is not Revelation scripture?
And all that are in their graves shall hear His voice.
That word ALL means just that. Your contention that not all will be resurrected is wrong.

 

[GEN2REV]

All scripture is suitable for doctrine. Is not Revelation scripture?

That's not what the verse says, but you get an 'E' for Effort.

Rev. is plenty suitable for supporting doctrine founded on Scripture from other books, just not for creating doctrine from it.

And all that are in their graves shall hear His voice.
That word ALL means just that. Your contention that not all will be resurrected is wrong.

If you read the rest of chapter 5 before verse 28, you will see that it's not saying what you claim it is.

John 5 that is.