Once Saved Always Saved

[FHII]

Well endure according ot Matthew? No. That enduring is not for soterioloigical purposes

Well, there's a word I got to look up!

I still somewhat disagree with your belief that this verse doesn't apply across the board, especially since he said the same thing in chapter 24 about those at the end of the world (thanks to the person that brought it to my attention... I forget who it was). However, its a moot point based on what you said next.

[Its a MOOT point, people! NOT A MUTE POINT!]

Well for people who leave the faith, the bible has an answer that is much clearer than the man made- saved, then no t saved, then saved, then not saved conundrum.

Matt. 7:21-23 Jesus said He NEVER knew those folks! Not that He knew them once but didn't know them now!

1 John 2:19-- As John wrote, they were not of us, not they were once of us but are not now! This is just like the parable of the wheat and tares. They both looked alike for a time but in the end the wheat and tares become known! It isn't that some wheat became tares.

Ronald, my friend... This thread is only a very short 95 pages long! I don't know why you haven't noticed I have already made that point while using those exact verses you quoted! I also have made mention of the wheat and tares parable.

I agree 100% and actually have made that point already, and used the same verses. So as far as I am concerned we are on the same page overall even if its not with Matthew 10.

I await your verse if Timothy is not the verse.

I will not keep you in suspense. While the verse in Timothy is a good one, as is Hebrews 10:1 as well as Galatians 3:24, the verse I had in mind is:

1 Corinthians 10:11 KJV
Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

I really don't want to make a long discourse here... I understand that certain things do not apply to us under the new covenant, and that specific things were said to specific groups. The Law of Moses, for example... We are not under that law but it is written for us to understand and know. It remains a shadow and schoolmaster for us even though we are not under it. But it does further our understanding in many ways.

In short, while everything in the Bible may not apply to us, its given to us to know and learn from.

 

[Taken]

But that's the very arrogance that Paul warns us not to have.

...you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will certainly notg spare you either. Take notice, therefore, of the kindness and severity of God: severity to those who fell, but kindness to you, if you continue in His kindness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. Romans 11:20-22​

Faith is a Gift from God...
...GODS GIFT OF Faith, BEGINS AS:
AS A TASTE...A SMALL MEASURE.

THAT small tasting, is a Gift given a man...
FOR HEARING the Word of God.
The HEARING is called; enlightenment.

Umpteen Warnings are given in Scripture, to men, who are;
Hearing...being enlightened
Receiving...a taste of Gods Gift of Faith.
TO BE IN FEAR...
Should... THEY STOP HEARING.

IF THEY STOP Hearing...
They SHALL STOP Receiving Gods Gift of Faith.
THEY ARE CALLED; Fallen FROM FAITH.

A man WHO continues Hearing...
Continues Receiving...enlightenment.
Continues Increased...Receiving OF Gods Gift of Faith.

As the mans GIFT OF FAITH IS INCREASED...
That man is "BEING PREPARED", to "heartfully" CONFESS, by his own word of testimony, his Belief IN Jesus the Christ, and the Heavenly Father God Who Sent Him;
His repentance for having HAD Disbelief (SIN);
His readiness TO ACCEPT the Lords Gift of Fullness of Faith AND CONVERSION.

THE CONVERSION of that man...IS the Works of the Lord God, effects ONCE and FOREVER.

Pretending "Unconverted men in faith" ARE Converted, IS NOT Scriptural.

Believing "Believing Converted men" ARE subject to losing their Salvation, IS NOT Scriptural.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

But that's the very arrogance that Paul warns us not to have.

...you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will certainly notg spare you either. Take notice, therefore, of the kindness and severity of God: severity to those who fell, but kindness to you, if you continue in His kindness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. Romans 11:20-22​

If Strong Faith is “ arrogance” , the Martyrs that watched their children being fed to lions must have REALLY been “arrogant” ....all they had to do is renounce their Faith—- yet their Faith in the Promises Of God was so Strong, it was never really a possibility.....I’d like to be one whose Faith was that Strong.....
The “ arrogance “ of the Jews was due to the pride they had in being God’s “Chosen” People....God had Chosen them to be His Voice to the entire world..... God gave the Laws to the Jews....He gave great Promises to the Jews....God established ways that Jews could offer sacrifices and be able to approach Him and get their sins Forgiven.....they were given gifts from God that Gentiles could only envy.....if they had the sense too....
These types of things made many of the Jews very “ haughty”..... they thought that they were “ hot stuff” simply because their Father was Abraham and they were guaranteed to be blessed simply because of that....
Please don’t confuse Strong Faith with “ arrogance” .....any Faith that I possess is a gift from God, and if anything I am not Proud if it—- I am just very grateful and happy about it and I want the people here and the world to know it....
Faith doesn’t amount to a “ hill of beans” if one does not have Love....I got that too....it’s not obvious in forums like these where it seems that some of us are always doing Battle with Legalists, Spreaders Of False Gospels , Spreaders Of Leaven and Tares hiding in the churches....It’s hard to “ act loving” against such types......perhaps we are not supposed to ....Paul didn’t try to make peace with Legalists....he wanted them ejected from his churches....they weren’t, for the most part, and that is why at the end of his life,Paul lamented that , “All Of The Churches Of Asia Minor have deserted me”
Paul was correct we He said, “ a little Leaven , leavenith the whole batch”..... I try to be a fighter against Leaven ....sometimes it makes me look mean....I can live with that....
Seems that I wandered off the topic a bit.....I can live with that too! Gorgeous day here....half of my mind is on the golf and motorcycle riding I will be doing later.....sorry.....lol......

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If Strong Faith is “ arrogance”...

No. Flippant faith is arrogant. I will now wade through your wall of text and comment accordingly..........

 

[marks]

I'm sorry but you must have me confused with someone else.

I don't think so.

Patterns show themselves.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You're the one who said the passage doesn't say that, lol. Why did you say that if you were not talking about a passage of scripture? I do have one in mind. Do you know which one says you are kept by God's power through faith?

If you want to do this, let's stop dancing in circles, OK?

We both knew when you said the words what passage you were talking about.

But these games get boring.

Much love!

 

[marks]

No. Flippant faith is arrogant. I will now wade through your wall of text and comment accordingly..........

And who has "flippant faith"? Do you?

Realize . . . there are reasons for the questions I ask.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I have never said I have no assurance. I am very much assured that I am a saved, born again person. Where did you get that I said I have no assurance?????

Nevermind . . . more word games.

 

[JunChosen]

It is “ He” that said that “Anybody that asks to be Saved “ WILL “ be Saved.....

The problem is there's none that seeks after God no, not one! No exceptions!

I performed “God’s Will” ......I “ Believed in the One that He sent” ......Now it is up to HIM to perform HIS Part.....He has Promised to save me if I Believe that His Son is “ The Risen Lord” (Romans 10:9 ).....

Yes you performed His will, BUT ONLY BECAUSE OF THE RESULT OF SALVATION!

To God Be The Glory

 

[justbyfaith]

True......some prefer “, Lucky Repentance” ( man’s way) over Grace, ( God’s Way)
In the former fake system ....man gets at least a “ piece” Of The Glory....
In the Latter— GOD gets ALL of the Glory ....that’s the way God wants it...and it’s only fitting that it is that way—— He is the ONLY ONE that Deserves it.....

God gets glory when people live the way that He has told them to live...

When Christians actually live the gospel, God gets the glory...

Not so much when Christians live like hypocrites. When they do so, they drag His name through the mud...

So, the question is, does the Christian who has not repented act more along the lines of living out the gospel, or living like a hypocrite?

I believe that it is the latter...

If there is something I must “ DO” to get Saved and Stay Saved.....God will see to it that it will get done at sometime in my Life ....( His Word is at stake!) If there is anything in this universe that I am Forbidden to do, lest I get Damned for Doing it.....God will see to it that I don’t Do it ( once again, God’s Word is at Stake! )

Does that apply to everyone in the world?

If it doesn't, then it may not apply to you either.

But if you say that it does, then you are preaching Universalism which is heresy.

NO, I do NOT FEAR GOD.

Then you are not wise (Job 28:28).

Amen! Shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away does not represent saving belief in Christ.

Nevertheless, it sometimes passes for saving faith in the church; and therefore if you think you have a saving faith, perhaps you should think again. Examine yourself whether you are in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5). Work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). Give diligence to make your calling and election sure (2 Peter 1:10).

 

[kcnalp]

IF that is the rules...
IF I should do that...
Go complain.

Judging others is what OSASers do. You MUST judge others as unsaved to prove your doctrine.

That's you.

More false accusations?

I believe Jesus IS Faithful and True, and ONCE HE SAVES a man, it is ETERNAL, NO man can undo, what the Lord has accomplished.

John 10:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Wonderful! I can never be unsaved no matter how many false accusations OSASers charge me with!

Judging - swings both ways.
I believe once the Lord saves a man, it is forever, just as Scripture teaches.

I'm judging OSAS as false.

Your Judgement is that is "nonsense" to believe the Lords salvation given a man once is forever.

I have shown you Scriptures, to support my belief.
You have shown nothing of a man having received his Salvation, then had his Salvation removed.

We disagree, and you JUDGED my belief, as "nonsense'. That's on you.

I read all the Bible. I know OSAS is "nonsense".

Romans 11:22 (NKJV)
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

 

[kcnalp]

NO, I do NOT FEAR GOD.

I do.
1 Peter 2:17 (NKJV)
17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.

"Christians", is a mans term.

"Converted", is Jesus' term.
( Study Scripture. It was the Lord Jesus who expressly used that term.)

Matt 18:
[3] And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

You don't know what "Christians" means?

Nothing in Scripture says, Converted, then Unconverted.

You must be missing a lot of pages in your Bible.
John 15:1-2 (NKJV)
1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

 

[kcnalp]

Your intention was to put your words in my mouth, then want a defense from me.

I Don't play that game. What comes out of your mouth is your words. You are accountable for what you think and say...
Not me.

You misquoted me. I simply corrected you. I think I have that right.

No I do not EXCUSE your lack of UNDERSTANDING.

It is obvious, you Quoting, 1 John 1:8-9...
Is you revealing you KNOW NOT THE DIFFERENCE between one CLAIMING...
"They HAVE NO SIN"
And as I HAVE CLAIMED, "I have FORGIVEN SIN".

Any student and believer "KNOWS" all men "HAVE SIN".
Any elementary student, can comprehend, a natural man is "born IN SIN", and "commits SIN".

Any elementary student, can comprehend,
* "A CONVERTED MAN, HAS FORGIVEN SIN",
And SINS, "NO MORE".
* "A NON-CONVERTED MAN, HAS NON-FORGIVEN SIN", and CONTINUES TO SIN.

I am Forgiven, Converted IN Christ, KEPT By HIS Power and sin NO MORE.

You....well, by your own admission, you continue to SIN....
For some (unscriptural reasoning), the Lords Power is not enough to KEEP you Free from sin...

Oh, so now you really do sin. Thanks for confessing.

I didn't say you were unsaved.
You define yourself as:
Saved (but can lose your salvation)...
Saved (but continues to sin)...

What you have determined applies to you...
Definately does not apply to me.

If that bothers you, so what.

But you just confessed that you continue to sin.

 

[Taken]

Taken said; No I do not fear God.

Then you are not wise (Job 28:28).

Wise enough to Know, I am not an OT (that you reference) or NT Israelite "WAITING" for Salvation to come.

Wise enough to Know Salvation CAME 2,000+ years ago.

Luke 19:
[9] And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

Wise enough to Have Received Gods Promised Salvation.

Wise enough to KNOW and UNDERSTAND;
Those with "little faith", or "no faith", or (those ancient men NOT offered "Salvation" during their "natural life"...)....
Does not Apply to me.

What Applies to me, IS Gods Gift of:
FAITH-FULLNESS, that I accepted.
And Because of my FAITH-FULLNESS, I have NO FEAR of God.

Matt 8:
[26] And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful,
O ye of little faith?

WHY Fearful? ANSWER ^ Little Faith.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Judging others is what OSASers do. You MUST judge others as unsaved to prove your doctrine.

what a joke. And yet you do not judge? What do you call this?

One thing is for sure, not only is your interpretation of the word flawed. But your hypocrisy is deep. You could not convince someone who has faith in Christ to come you way for that fact alone,

 

[kcnalp]

Maybe they are and maybe they are not! But now you are judging OSAS people yourself! I am glad that only God gets to judge ones eternal state. I know of many people who believe you can lose your salvation judge people lost if they go through a season of backsliding. I guess we see what we want to see.

As for me, if someone who professes to be a believer turns to live in sin for a season, I am not going to say they aren't saved, or never saved, but plead with them to turn away and acknowledge their sin, be experientially forgiven and once again enjoy their relationship with God. If they never had a relationship, that is for God to decide!

No I am not. I am judging the false doctrine of OSAS. Not the OSAS preachers.

 

[kcnalp]

what a joke. And yet you do not judge? What do you call this?

One thing is for sure, not only is your interpretation of the word flawed. But your hypocrisy is deep. You could not convince someone who has faith in Christ to come you way for that fact alone,

See #1917

 

[justbyfaith]

Taken said; No I do not fear God.


Wise enough to Know, I am not an OT (that you reference) or NT Israelite "WAITING" for Salvation to come.

Wise enough to Know Salvation CAME 2,000+ years ago.

Luke 19:
[9] And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

Wise enough to Have Received Gods Promised Salvation.

Wise enough to KNOW and UNDERSTAND;
Those with "little faith", or "no faith", or (those ancient men NOT offered "Salvation" during their "natural life"...)....
Does not Apply to me.

What Applies to me, IS Gods Gift of:
FAITH-FULLNESS, that I accepted.
And Because of my FAITH-FULLNESS, I have NO FEAR of God.

Matt 8:
[26] And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful,
O ye of little faith?

WHY Fearful? ANSWER ^ Little Faith.

Job 28:20, Whence then cometh wisdom? and where is the place of understanding?
Job 28:21, Seeing it is hid from the eyes of all living, and kept close from the fowls of the air.
Job 28:22, Destruction and death say, We have heard the fame thereof with our ears.
Job 28:23, God understandeth the way thereof, and he knoweth the place thereof.
Job 28:24, For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;
Job 28:25, To make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure.
Job 28:26, When he made a decree for the rain, and a way for the lightning of the thunder:
Job 28:27, Then did he see it, and declare it; he prepared it, yea, and searched it out.
Job 28:28, And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

1Pe 1:17, And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
1Pe 1:18, Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19, But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

 

[Eternally Grateful]

See #1917

My point stands

stop denying it

 

[marks]

If Strong Faith is “ arrogance” , the Martyrs that watched their children being fed to lions must have REALLY been “arrogant” ....all they had to do is renounce their Faith—- yet their Faith in the Promises Of God was so Strong, it was never really a possibility.....I’d like to be one whose Faith was that Strong.....

The disengenuousness of someone labeling strong faith as arrogant!

One thing I do learn in these sorts of threads . . . who will and who won't . . .

• play nice
• debate respectfully
• respond appropriately
• engage in deception
• become mean

Much love!