Once Saved Always Saved

[BreadOfLife]

If you lose faith you never had it to begin with
and if you lose faith god is unfaithful,

i am tired of proving this.

This is the dumbest argument I've heard yet.

HOW can you lose somethin you never had??
And HOW is God unfaithful if YOU didn't keep YOUR end of the bargain??

2 Peter 1:10-11 (NKJV)
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make YOUR CALL AND ELECTION sure, for IF YOU DO THESE THINGS you will never stumble;
11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[Wrangler]

a non believer, by defenition, it means they NEVER BELIEVED

Well, that's bad definition formation.

IMO, you equating OSAS with God's faithfulness is a ruse. God always saves provided you accept the life preserver. Just because you accepted the life preserver yesterday in no way affects your current orientation of turning your back on the life preserver.

It is clear to me that many verses used in this thread to justify OSAS is taking the text out of context; that the verses pertain and apply to believers (not non-believers). The ex-post facto rationalization that if one is not saved they never believed and were never REALLY saved is not in touch with the reality. Besides the many verses already cited from Jesus about salt losing its flavor and vines not producing fruit, is the saddest verse in the whole Bible. Disciples - not mere followers of the faith, like us, but disciples who walked side by side with the Lord - turned their back on him at John 6:66. It's absurd to suppose they did not REALLY believe, were not REALLY saved.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Should you deep study you may come to a better understanding, the Lord Does NOT backslide on his Promises, that IF a man does THIS, the Lord SHALL do THAT.
There is Clearly only ONE WAY to receive Salvation and Quickening, and there after Once Received, NOTHING can Separate that man from the Lord God.

I don't care about that. I'm just telling you that the Bible says for real believers to keep believing. Each of us can think what we want about it from there. The important thing is to know that the Bible tells us to keep believing and to then do that.

 

[Taken]

Correct.
The Scriptures tell us that Christ's CHURCH is His mouthpiece on earth:

Matt 16:19
I will give YOU the keys to the kingdom of heaven. WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven; and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matt. 18:15-18
Amen, I say to you, WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven, and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

John 16:13-15
“But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to ALL truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to YOU the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.
Everything that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told you that he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent ME, so I send YOU.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained.”


Now, THAT'S authority . . .

Uh Christ's Church is EVERY Converted person.

Not news Jesus SENT, JEWS to the JEWS, and the TRIBES, who "WERE" under MOSAIC LAW, to teach them a NEW Gospel.

Not NEWS, JEWS IN Christ were FORGIVING JEWS their sins, according to them UNDER the LAW.

2,000 years LATER, Gentiles are "Supposed" to be teaching "Gentiles', according to Jesus' Doctrine....but we well know, others Doctrines of MEN are being taught.

2 Tim 3:
[10] But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

2 John 1:
[9] Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in thedoctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in thedoctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Rom 16:
[17] Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

No, I asked you to show me where those people said what you said

That's was a different part of our conversation, different quotes, different posts. I responded with 1 John 2:19-28 in the part of our conversation concerning that. Follow the links back and you'll see that.

 

[Taken]

I don't care about that. I'm just telling you that the Bible says for real believers to keep believing. Each of us can do what we want with that and think what we want about it from there. The important thing is to know that the Bible tells us to keep believing and to then do that.

No problem...we understand differently.

A Converted man IS Kept by God, Period.
EVERY man, IS still surrounded by Evil.
And EVIL lurks looking for an easy target.
So not a big surprise to me to forewarn the weak.

If you are Converted and worried about Losing your Salvation....that is your choice.
Worry away.

I don't.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Have you ever researched Pastors, hefty congregation, years service....come out and admit...they never Believed?
Preaching, "pseudo praying", baptizing, mingling, carrying the esteemed clout;
then drop that bombshell....it was just a job, way to make a living, easy to get a degree, what the heck...

Astounding!

And I got sick of going to church with these kinds of people. It's almost impossible to find a church that is not owned and controlled and populated by unconverted people. They don't understand us born again people who try to co-exist with them. I quit trying.

 

[Taken]

Good day sir

I am done talking with you, you have absolutely nothing to offer me.

LOL...appointed to the anti-catholic crowd??
Nothing new. Everyone that is not on his bandwagon is anti-catholic.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If you are Converted and worried about Losing your Salvation....that is your choice.
Worry away.

Lol, no, I don't worry about losing my salvation.

 

[Taken]

And I got sick of going to church with these kinds of people. It's almost impossible to find a church that is not owned and controlled and populated by unconverted people. They don't understand us born again people who try to co-exist with them. I quit trying.

Except for weddings...been so many years since Ive been in a Church (building).
Read, Study, with family, and friends, elderly, kids, babies, with our Lord God...He's always there 24-7 any day, any hour, No locked doors, No time limit, No dress code, No traffic.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

No it does not teach that

I just showed you what the 'P' in tulip means. It means the true believer will never stop believing.

OSAS teaches we will never stop trusting god

That's what I posted! Lol. You said osas does not teach that.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Uh Christ's Church is EVERY Converted person.
Not news Jesus SENT, JEWS to the JEWS, and the TRIBES, who "WERE" under MOSAIC LAW, to teach them a NEW Gospel.

Not NEWS, JEWS IN Christ were FORGIVING JEWS their sins, according to them UNDER the LAW.

2,000 years LATER, Gentiles are "Supposed" to be teaching "Gentiles', according to Jesus' Doctrine....but we well know, others Doctrines of MEN are being taught.

2 Tim 3:
[10] But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

2 John 1:
[9] Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in thedoctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in thedoctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Rom 16:
[17] Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

ummmmm, can you show me the verse that makes your claim above in RED?
christ's Church is a VISIBLE entity - the "Light of the world" and "a city on a hill that cannot be hidden" (Matt. 5:14).

As for what Paul said above in RED - he talks about "MY" (Paul's) doctrine. In context, it's literally the CHURCH'S doctrines he's talking about - and the Church speaks for Christ (Matt. 16:19-18, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 1-:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

Finally - Jesus commanded His Apostles to teach ALL NATIONS (Matt. 28:19-20) - not Gentiles only teaching Gentiles, etc.
STUDY your Bible . . .

 

[Wrangler]

Lol, no, I don't worry about losing my salvation.

That is yet another fallacy of the OSAS crowd; the Appeal to Emotion, that we are 'worried' about losing our salvation if we don't embrace OSAS.

I just do my best to follow the will of God and ask for forgiveness when I realize I fail.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

ummmmm, can you show me the verse that makes your claim above in RED?

Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple. 1 Corinthians 3:16-17​

You keep defining the church as an authorized religious organization when the Bible says the church is the sum total of all individual believers.

You're wasting your time here, friend. You're not going to convert anyone here over to Catholicism. I respect your history and upbringing and I'm not going to try to take away from you what you hold dear, but if you push the issue I and the rest of us are going to tell you exactly why we don't follow Catholicism. The divide is too wide and deep between us. None of us are going to cross it and come over to Catholicism.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple. 1 Corinthians 3:16-17​

You keep defining the church as an authorized religious organization when the Bible says the church is the sum total of all individual believers.

You're wasting your time here, friend. You're not going to convert anyone here over to Catholicism. I respect your history and upbringing and I'm not going to try to take away from you what you hold dear, but if you push the issue I and the rest of us are going to tell you exactly why we don't follow Catholicism. The divide is too wide and deep between us. None of us are going to cross it and come over to Catholicism.

It's never been my goal to "convert" anyone here to Catholicism.

As I have stated oon numerous occasions - my SOLE purpose for being here is to seek out those who find it necessary to spread LIES about the Catholic Church - expose them - and set the record straight.

That's it - NO great mystery.
And, by the way - the verse you presented doesn't say that the Church is some invisible gaggle of "converted people". Paul is writing to the CHURCH in Corinth.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Have you ever researched Pastors, hefty congregation, years service....come out and admit...they never Believed?
Preaching, "pseudo praying", baptizing, mingling, carrying the esteemed clout;
then drop that bombshell....it was just a job, way to make a living, easy to get a degree, what the heck...

Astounding!

Again belief and faith are two different things,

I can believe and act like a christian even be a pastor and never have true saving faith

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I just showed you what the 'P' in tulip means. It means the true believer will never stop believing.

I am not a calvinist, so NT sure what that has to do with my faith, I do Not follow the p in tulip

That's what I posted! Lol. You said osas does not teach that.

No you posted stop believing

different word, I can believe and not trust,

 

[Ferris Bueller]

As I have stated oon numerous occasions - my SOLE purpose for being here is to seek out those who find it necessary to spread LIES about the Catholic Church - expose them - and set the record straight.

That is a waste of time. You won't succeed in setting anything straight with anti-Catholics. God has not commissioned anybody to set the record straight just for the sake of setting the record straight. That is a prideful motivation that comes from the flesh, not from the Spirit.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I am not a calvinist, so NT sure what that has to do with my faith, I do Not follow the p in tulip

You don't have to be a Calvinist to believe the part of the Calvinist teaching that says true believers will always believe and can't stop believing. That teaching comes from the 'P' in the larger 'TULIP' teaching of Calvinism.

 

[Wrangler]

Again belief and faith are two different things,

I can believe and act like a christian even be a pastor and never have true saving faith

I don't believe that for one second. Sure, it is possible in theory but contradictory in practice.