Once Saved Always Saved

[Corlove13]

1 Thes 5:23

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Tong2020]

Samson did. Jesus also warns the Churches that if they don't repent He will remove the Lampstand which is God's Spirit. That's in Revelation 2 and 3. This is why those who depart from the faith (eg, some of the Galatians) are told "You are severed from Christ". We're they PHYSICALLY attached to Christ or SPIRITUALLY? "Whoever is one with the Lord is one Spirit with Him"--so those who are severed from Him are spiritually no longer with Him. They're fallen from the Spirit of Grace.

When you say “You are severed from Christ", do you mean separated from Christ? As in separated from the love of Christ?

Tong
R3052

 

[Tong2020]

Corlove13 said: ↑
If you through the Spirit put away the deeds of the flesh you shall live.......

Precisely. IF. Meaning if you don't meet the condition you will not reap eternal life but will die (Romans 2:6-16; Galatians 6:6-10).

You are not saying that one’s putting away the deeds of the flesh will reap for him salvation unto eternal life, right?

Tong
R3053

 

[Corlove13]

God sure elects. But if what you are saying is that God’s election is based on a qualifier, as only those who have faith in Him, I don’t find scriptures saying that. Perhaps you can tell is the reference scriptures.

Tong
R3943

43“Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus replied. 44“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: ‘And they will all be taught by God.’e Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to Me— 46not that anyone has seen the Father except the One who is from God; only He has seen the Father.


The will of the Father is that everyone who looks to the son and believes will have life and be raised on the last day.

 

[Corlove13]

@Corlove13

Born from above that Jesus speaks in John 3 which He tells Nicodemus about is birth according not of the will of man, but that of God. It is birth according to the Spirit. And as it is of the will of God and not man, we understand that in such birth, while it concerns man, man’s will has nothing to do with it.

<<<Jesus called Nicodemus out for not understanding the birth from above by the Holy Spirit. Jesus said he should know since he was a teacher of Israel. So we have to ask ourselves where in the old testament scriptures does it talk about being born again, or born from above, that Nicodemus should have known about, but didn't.>>>

Nicodemus, being the teacher of Israel should know about Isaac and Ishmael.

Gal.4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.

Isaac was born according to the Spirit and Ishmael born according to the flesh. Isaac was born of the will of God and Ishmael was born of the will of man.

Paul there have revealed something concerning the Christians. That they are children of promise, like Isaac was. And so, like Isaac was, they are born according to the Spirit, that is, they are born from above, born of the will of God.

Tong
R3041

I am not sure...if you can mesh it all together like that........meaning to say His will=born from above.
However to be born from above may be His will

 

[Corlove13]

Eph.2:5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

Tong
R3040

The point is: the saving aspect is they were dead and now quickened with Christ.
.......

 

[GracePeace]

When you say “You are severed from Christ", do you mean separated from Christ? As in separated from the love of Christ?

Tong
R3052

They departed from God (Galatians 1:6), so, yes, separated from the love of God THAT IS IN CHRIST because they DEPARTED FROM CHRIST where God's love is located.

 

[Tong2020]

Yep and some people fall away from the faith--and we see in Hebrews 3 that it is possible to fall away from the faith due to sin which hardens the heart and turns your heart into an evil heart of unbelief.

Would you consider any time in your Christian life, that you once had fallen away?

Tong
R3054

 

[GracePeace]

You are not saying that one’s putting away the deeds of the flesh will reap for him salvation unto eternal life, right?

Tong
R3053

That is precisely what Scripture teaches

Romans 2
6He will render to each one according to his works: 7to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8but for those who are self-seekinga and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11For God shows no partiality.
12For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

Romans 8
12So then, brothers,e we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Galatians 6
6Let the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches. 7Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. 8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up. 10So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith.

 

[GracePeace]

Would you consider any time in your Christian life, that you once had fallen away?

Tong
R3054

Irrelevant.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
I don’t take life as a reward, but a gift.

Romans 2
6He will render to each one according to his works: 7to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8but for those who are self-seekinga and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11For God shows no partiality.
12For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

That is to the Jews and to the Gentiles.

Galatians 6
6Let the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches. 7Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. 8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up. 10So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith.

Taking that passage to have eternal life as a reward or a wage or something earned, rendering it as no a gift from God is a mistake.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Tong
R3055

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Would you consider any time in your Christian life, that you once had fallen away?

Irrelevant.

If you’ll consider your answer, you will see the relevance. The relevance is in the answer, not in the question. If you tell me your answer, I would be able to show you its relevance.

Tong
R3056

 

[GracePeace]

That is to the Jews and to the Gentiles.


Taking that passage to have eternal life as a reward is a mistake.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Tong
R3055

1) Paul doesn't write epistles to lost Jews and Gentiles, he writes to churches--he was addressing Jewish and Gentile Christians in the Roman Church.

2) The text is explicit : eternal life will be repaid at the judgment in return for good works. This is the same doctrine as in Galatians 6:6-10.

3) You need to read Romans 6 in context, not just tear your favorite prooftext out of context. It says that slavery to righteousness leads to holiness and the end result of holiness is eternal life Romans 6:22-23. That is correct. We have received the gift of slavery to righteousness. The only difference between yourself and I is that I believe ALL the Bible but you only believe a measly little out of context verse. That said, slaves who are "lazy" will be sent to hell Matthew 25:24.

 

[GracePeace]

If you’ll consider your answer, you will see the relevance. The relevance is in the answer, not in the question. If you tell me your answer, I would be able to show you its relevance.

Tong
R3056

I just read the Bible and believe it. It says they began by the Spirit and then departed from the truth--Jesus being the Truth, then, they departed from Him.

 

[Corlove13]

Romans 4:25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.

Corlove13 I think because should be "for"

1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

How one is saved by His life is the same as how one is reconciled to God by His death, through faith in God and Jesus Christ.
Corlove13 ...my point would be
After one is saved [quickened] it's to live out the life [that is how one can be Justified] ....means that the covenant is the way we ste governed for life here...amd how we overcome this world.......
<<<But what happens when they get carried away by the cares of this world? Are you saying they continue to be reward life?>>>

I don’t take life as a reward, but a gift.
Yes I understand why for "reward" you most likely think refers to working to earn salvation......

That you may receive the reward of your faith: The Life of your souls; 1 peter 1;9


So in Ephesians 2: the saving there is from being dead in Sin.......and there is nothing we did there...to Earn being quickened to life.

But God rewards those who diligently seek Him.....
but now we have His Spirit...
So there is nothing we do without Him, and There is nothing we will do alone.


so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. Matthew 6:4



If and when they bear no fruit because they get carried away by the cares of the world, they will received their just reward. They will be chastened by God, those who are His sons.
You just used reward here....lol

Tong
R3037

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
1 Corinthians 3:16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

This was not the case in the OT period.

In your idea of the Holy Spirit as coming and going from in whom He dwells, when does He come and when does He go?

And when He goes from the Christian, what do you say becomes of the Christian?

1 Corinthians 10
6Now these things took place as examples for us...
11Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come.

These things that happened to them under the OT correspond to partakers of the NT.

1 Thessalonians 4:8
Therefore whoever disregards this, disregards not man but God, who gives his Holy Spirit to you.

Why does Paul mention "Who gives His Holy Spirit to you"? Because if we disregard God, He can remove His Spirit from us.

Examples for what purpose?

“ to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted.”

Irrelevant.

Tong
R3056

 

[GracePeace]

Examples for what purpose?

“ to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted.”

Right, because otherwise what happened to them will happen to us--just as they fell under wrath and did not inherit the promise so also we will fall under wrath and not inherit the promise.

 

[GracePeace]

When you say “You are severed from Christ", do you mean separated from Christ? As in separated from the love of Christ?

Tong
R3052

2 Corinthians 13
5Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!

This is why Paul said that Christ had to be formed in the Galatians "again" Galatians 4:19--they had been deceived by evil workers and had departed from the faith and so departed from God and His Christ (Galatians 1:6, Galatians 5:4).

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
The Christian should not forget that the OT was but a shadow of the realities that are in Christ and in the new covenant.

Should the shadow give light to the reality? It is the other way around. So, for me, making the OT to shed light on the things in the NT is a mistake. Jesus Christ is the light.

So I agree with @marks point there.

So Paul was mistaken :

1 Corinthians 9
8Do I say these things on human authority? Does not the Law say the same? 9For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain.” Is it for oxen that God is concerned? 10Does he not certainly speak for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in the crop. 11If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you? 12If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more?
Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ. 13Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? 14In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

1 Corinthians 10
6Now these things took place as examples for us...
11Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come.

2 Timothy 3
14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it 15and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

You give me the impression that you believe that a shadow gives light to the reality (even of the light Himself), that it foreshadows. Well, .... I could only imagine how is that going to be.

Must the OT shed light about Jesus Christ, the light Himself? Must the OT shed light about God’s love for His people? Must the salvation of the children of Israel from slavery in Egypt through Moses shed light on the salvation of the children of promise through Jesus Christ? Well,... that would be moving backwards rather than moving forward towards the light.

Tong
R3058

 

[GracePeace]

You give me the impression that you believe that a shadow gives light to the reality (even of the light Himself), that it foreshadows. Well, .... I could only imagine how is that going to be.

Must the OT shed light about Jesus Christ, the light Himself? Must the OT shed light about God’s love for His people? Must the salvation of the children of Israel from slavery in Egypt through Moses shed light on the salvation of the children of promise through Jesus Christ? Well,... that would be moving backwards rather than moving forward towards the light.

Tong
R3058

1) The majority of the NT was written by Paul. You realize Paul was a master of the OT and his doctrines were always "as it is written". So was Paul erring? LOL

2) The Holy Spirit inspired the OT Scriptures, and Peter calls them a "lamp" (which gives light) 2 Peter 1:19 which is like Scripture says "Your Word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path."

3) 1 Corinthians 10 says their salvation sheds light on our salvation. You reject Apostolic doctrine because you hold to traditions of men. It's really that simple. You have no appetite for God's Word.