Oddly OSAS
- Thread starter GracePeace
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Then show the context. If what you are saying is actually in the passage, then show that. Expand the context so we can see it.
Much love!
I just accept what I read--you're the only one who can tell me about yourself, and I believe you.
You didn't want context, you wanted only a "Do you agree, verbatim? I don't want to hear any context. Just tell me VERBATIM."
Why do you cite it's terms as though they govern over you? There is much detailed Scripture which teaches specifically concerning the NT regenerate. Yet you go to the passages that detail that covenant, and not this one?
Much love!
God doesn't change. You denied His children could unbecome His children, I debunked that denial, now your only recourse is essentially to complain "that was yesterday God is different today". Paul says it was written for me not just them.
I'm saying the Bible tells us this.
I've shown a couple of places, there are more. Philippians 3, end of chapter, "our citizenship is in heaven, from where we are looking for Jesus, who will change our vile body to be like His glorious body" something like that.
If your citizenship is in heaven now, He will transform you then. This is another one of those prophectic passages, so if it doesn't happen, then the Bible is false. No hidden caveats, either you believe it or you do not.
Much love!
Are we in the same conversation? I guess not!
My complaint is that you introduce caveats to both your words and God's words where they don't in fact appear, but you think of them as being there. Kind of like crossing your fingers behind your back.
Much love!
And furthermore . . . how is this a response to what I wrote? I've confirmed you do not see yourself in that covenant, and questioned why you used it's terms.
OK.
I agree, God does not change. So then, Why are you not in that covenant?? This is an important question, and I hope you give it some careful thought before you answer.
Much love!
No, the Bible doesn't tell us that. I showed that it tells us otherwise.
Your only recourse is essentially to argue that God changes--"That was yesterday, today God is different."
Yeah, I believe that.
Yeah, those whose citizenship is in heaven now should await that transformation--that says nothing about whether someone can have their citizenship revoked, their faith removed, their name blotted out.
You deny that they appear, but you can do nothing to defend or substantiate your denial. I stand by my view of Mt 18 ,etc.
Another of His precious promises,
Because some ask the question, what about His errant children?
Hebrews 12:6-11 KJV
6) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8) But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9) Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10) For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11) Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
In short, IF you are His child, He will chasten you. Not maybe, He will. And His chastening works. Not maybe, it does.
Who is it that God would cast out, considering He corrects and restores His children?
Much love!
Because some ask the question, what about His errant children?
Hebrews 12:6-11 KJV
6) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8) But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9) Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10) For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11) Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
In short, IF you are His child, He will chasten you. Not maybe, He will. And His chastening works. Not maybe, it does.
Who is it that God would cast out, considering He corrects and restores His children?
Much love!
If your understanding were valid, then Paul was wrong to write 1 Co 9:27-10:11.
It's as simple as that.
Perhaps you could underline it for me, or something.
1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Much love!
There are two sides to it--on one hand, we are warned against falling away, and, yet, if faith is removed from someone, they are treated no differently from an unbeliever, because, as unbelievers, they will have to pay for their sins. Their name is not in the Book of Life, it is blotted out. They were never saved. Their having partaken of Christ retroactively never happens.
Yes, this addresses those who are sons of God--as stated, those from whom faith is removed are accounted as having never had faith.
In other words, there is no change to your certainty you have when you read the passage.
It would be helpful to me if you were to quote the passage, and highlight or underline the part that says what you are referencing in particular. Can you show me where in this passage, where does it say that the New Covenant functions on the same terms of forgiveness based on ongoing sacrifice that was required in the covenant of obedience? Righteous acts forgotten if you did wicked acts? Wicked acts forgotten if you did righteous acts?
Here again, If you want to just toss out vague statements like this, OK, you've done that. But if you should choose to be specific, we may have something to discuss.
Much love!
Yep, you've got this unwritten caveat behind any passage that would show you something different.
Nothing more to say. OK, one thing more,
Much love!
And again this is false. God doesn't change, but He has said different things to different people.
We seem to be circling. No need for that.
Much love!
1 Corinthians 9
7Who at any time serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat its fruit? Or who tends a flock and does not [g]consume some of the milk of the flock?
8I am not just asserting these things according to human judgment, am I? Or does the Law not say these things as well? 9For it is written in the Law of Moses: “YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE IT IS THRESHING.” God is not concerned about oxen, is He? 10Or is He speaking entirely for our sake? Yes, it was written for our sake, because the plowman ought to plow in hope, and the thresher to thresh in hope of sharing in the crops. 11If we sowed spiritual things in you, is it too much if we reap material things from you?
...
26Therefore I run in such a way as not to run aimlessly; I box in such a way, as to avoid hitting air; 27but I strictly discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be reprobate.
1 Corinthians 10
1For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers and sisters, that our fathers were all under the cloud and they all passed through the sea; 2and they all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3and they all ate the same spiritual food, 4and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was [a]Christ. 5Nevertheless, with most of them God was not pleased; for their dead bodies were spread out in the wilderness.
6Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they indeed craved them. 7Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: “THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND TO DRINK, AND ROSE UP TO PLAY.” 8Nor are we to commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day. 9Nor are we to put the Lord to the test, as some of them [c]did, and were killed by the snakes. 10Nor grumble, as some of them [d]did, and were killed by the destroyer. 11Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come
What should be evident from these passages is that it is perfectly legitimate to receive NT doctrine from the OT.
Now you're twisting my words. I never said all of the terms and conditions were unchanged. I think you're doing that to try to make me look silly. You can't honestly believe I said anything like that. I think that is dishonesty. If I am mistaken, forgive me--if I am right, though, you owe an apology.
The dynamic is what is substantive and lasting. The principle remains.
God still forgets sins today. Do you disagree?
If not, how do you arbitrarily believe God doesn't change about forgetting sin but that He does change about forgetting righteousness?