Not Born with Sin Nature

[ScottA]

Since there is no correction, I'll keep it. And I can't take the credit for it. Another one showed me the Scripture and reasoning that corrected me, and so I must be corrected, a d all such Scriptures make perfect sense without any need to twist them por wish them away.

For instance, two scriptures that kept nagging at me about Jesus being only one of two men born without sin in the flesh, was that he was in fact made of the seed of David after the flesh. (Rom 1)(2 Titus 2)

That means David's personal physical seed of man was in the body of our Lord by David's offspring Mary, which seed was in her flesh and womb.

If the seed of flesh is sinful, so it the flesh of that seed.

So much for sinful seed and womb of any creature on earth.

No, I'm thinking you are one of the expected sinners that feels their longtime excuse for ongoing sins is threatened, and so just throw out the usual accusations with nothing to show for it.

Afterall, If you can't blame it on being born with sin without consent, then what will you blame it on? Certainly not your own soul and will. No doubt you'll go ahead and just blame it on your old vile body as certain others do.

Jesus, Paul and all the apostles were heretics to the traditions of men.

And as he thus spake for himself, Festus said with a loud voice, Paul, thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad.

And some said, What will this babbler say?

So long as I keep preaching against ongoing sins and excuses for it, without correction from other sinners such as yourself, I'm figuring I'm on good ground.

I'll let you cling to whatever tradition makes you feel good.

So then, if you are correct (and you most certainly are not), there are immortals born of women who are not under the sentence of death.

Prove it.

Or stand corrected.

 

[quietthinker]

It does. Unlike the first Adam, living souls created by the Spirit God are now formed in mortal bodies, covered in the womb with mortal flesh and blood.

Well robert, you've lost me. Stories like this can only come from your own literature!

 

[Waiting on him]

David did not accuse his mother of sin in begetting him;

Yes he did, if he was conceived with sin, which can only be by conception of lust:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Only from the heart is sin conceived by lust to do so. Any creature conceived with sin, is because it is conceived by lust.

As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: but mine hand shall not be upon thee.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world.

Sin only proceeds from sin, and sin only enters by sinning, And so anything entering into the world with sin is only by sin, which can only be by sinning.

Man does not enter into the world with sin as all sin does, and all sin only enters into the world by man sinning.

Souls are not created with sin by God, nor are babies conceived in the womb with sin by female creatures, whether of man or beast.

Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

Being conceived in the marriage bed is undefiled and not from nor by sin: neither the husband nor the wife are sinning, nor are they conceiving sin, which is what all sinful things are.

"brought forth amidst labor pains,"

Mortality is labor and pain in this world for all creatures, including the feamale of any creature at birth. Man and woman do not labor in pain and sweat because they sinned, but because they are now born with mortal bodies subject to nature like all creatures. Lions and lambs labor in birth without sin, even as woman.

Man was created in the likeness of God, "after his image," in a state of holiness, and innocence, Gen_8:21;

And still does, just like any created soul breathed into the womb of a woman, to give birth to a newborn babe that has not sinned like all men.

"Adam begat a son in his own likeness, after his image,"

True, bodily. God makes souls, not man. Natural man like all naturally born creatures of the earth only produce natural flesh from natural seed, which are thus made after their own image, whether man, lion, fish, or tree.

But only man is a living soul created by God in the lowest parts of the earth, and breathed into the sinless womb of a woman. No physical seed nor womb is sinful with sin nature.

This certifies that one has the germ of sin from conception and birth.

For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away.

As with grass, so with all flesh. Neither grass nor dust nor flesh is sinful nor righteous by nature: it is nothing.

Even as circumcision of the flesh is nothing:

Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

There is no sin germ nor gene in physical seed of man, nor in any physical thing on earth, whether the seed of man or of beasts or of trees of the field. It does by nature what God made it to do: to be fruitful and multiply:

God commanded man and woman to be fruitful and multiply the same as all other living creatures God created on earth, and it was called good not sinful, and after the flood He made the same commandment again (Gen 9:1) as at the beginning, and it remains good, not sinful.

The mortal body of flesh and bone and blood is nothing and dead without the spirit.

I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Nothing physical on earth is unclean of itself: there is no sinful nature in it.

The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Jesus Christ made all things physical on earth, including the souls of men, with His life and light, not with sin.

For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

The heart of man is not the physical heart of the mortal body: lust and evil thinking does not proceed from a blood pump.

Man cannot blame the sin nature nor the natural body for sinning in the flesh.

Man is a soul and spiritual being, not a body of flesh and blood: the soul is the blame for sinning with mortal bodies on earth.

The body is not the cause for gluttony and drunkenness and fornication, but the soul of man covered with mortal flesh is.

The earthen vessel is not the vessel of wrath: the soul which sinneth with the body, it shall die. The soul does the sinning, not the body.

And yes, there are foolish Christian sinners that think the old man of sin is the physical body, and so while their body remains a vessel of wrath going on still in sins with sin nature, their souls are vessels of honor and mercy preserved with divine nature in heavenly places.

Their souls are no more judged for sins of the body, but only the body is judged for sinning.

Being born with the sin nature from sinful physical seed of man, is the foolish tradition of men producing such strong delusion.

Do you believe God formed you in your moms womb.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

1Jn_3:8-9. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
He sinneth not with any pleasure, it is not the course of his life. There are, alas! in the best of men, infirmities and imperfections and failures. Would God these were all removed! Still, the man is not what he used to be; though he is not what he shall be, he is not what he once was.
Spurgeon
Blessings
J.

Looks like you are still following man.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Hey Palsy Walsy (Sis),

Everyone is under the law until they are converted, aren't they? Upon conversion, the sin is forgiven, and the law is written on the heart, causing the converted one to no longer be under the law, am I right?

To me, it seems that the only contention is about the definition of, or what it is exactly that constitutes 'the law' that is written on the heart, as stated in the new covenant description in Jeremiah 31:33.

It would be the closest to 1 John 3:23, which would be Love God with all your mind, soul and body, and love your neighbor as yourself.

The sign of the New Covenant is the Cup of the New Covenant, representing the blood of the Creator.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Adam wasn't born with a sin nature, but with free will. When he chose to sin he took on the nature of the serpent. And that is what we all have interited, except for the one born from the seed of the Father. And He is why those born again have died to their sin nature and have inherited the divine nature of Jesus. That is why we MUST be born again of the Spirit. Romans 8:9

Nowhere in the Bible does it ever teach that the sin nature is inherited. Solomon wrote in Ecc. 7:29 that God man upright, which is the exact opposite of what you claim. Eph. 2, 2 Cor. 4, and Rev. 12 are but a few places where the Bible teaches that all of us have sinned because we surrendered to the anti-law broadcasts that Satan saturates the air with over the course of a lifetime. The difference between Jesus and every other human being that has ever lived is that there has never been a point where He surrendered to that broadcast.

To argue that people inherit the sin nature like it was a biological trait is absolutely ludicrous, primarily because it automatically means you have to believe that Jesus either inherited the sin nature from Mary or that He inherited perfection from her. This belief could be the Protestant equivalent of the Catholic tradition that Mary was sinless and didn't need a Savior.

The idea that people genetically inherited the sin nature calls God a liar, it is a subtle way of accusing God of setting the human race up to fail, and it's another excuse for people's refusal to follow His commandments. The reason why you are circling back to making anti-commandment arguments is that you're basically saying God might as well not expect people to keep His commandments since He made them a sinner out of the womb. At the end of the day, that's the core reason why anyone would subscribe to this heresy.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Nowhere in the Bible does it ever teach that the sin nature is inherited. Solomon wrote in Ecc. 7:29 that God man upright, which is the exact opposite of what you claim. Eph. 2, 2 Cor. 4, and Rev. 12 are but a few places where the Bible teaches that all of us have sinned because we surrendered to the anti-law broadcasts that Satan saturates the air with over the course of a lifetime. The difference between Jesus and every other human being that has ever lived is that there has never been a point where He surrendered to that broadcast.

To argue that people inherit the sin nature like it was a biological trait is absolutely ludicrous, primarily because it automatically means you have to believe that Jesus either inherited the sin nature from Mary or that He inherited perfection from her. This belief could be the Protestant equivalent of the Catholic tradition that Mary was sinless and didn't need a Savior.

The idea that people genetically inherited the sin nature calls God a liar, it is a subtle way of accusing God of setting the human race up to fail, and it's another excuse for people's refusal to follow His commandments. The reason why you are circling back to making anti-commandment arguments is that you're basically saying God might as well not expect people to keep His commandments since He made them a sinner out of the womb. At the end of the day, that's the core reason why anyone would subscribe to this heresy.

from the WCF chpt 6;
“This their sin, God was pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to his own glory.

2. By this sin they fell from their original righteousness and communion with God, and so became dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the parts and faculties of soul and body.

3. They being the root of all mankind, the guilt of this sin was imputed; and the same death in sin, and corrupted nature, conveyed to all their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation.

4. From this original corruption, whereby we are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil, do proceed all actual transgressions.”

to say we didnt inherit a sin nature is just ludacris.

 

[Johann]

Looks like you are still following man.

No, still following Christ in His well trodden, blood sprinkled road...there is a way that seemeth right in the eyes of a man..would you mind if you and I can have a one on one?
Blessings
J.

 

[Robert Gwin]

I appreciate your for your honesty in any argument: if you respond, you always address the point, unlike others who only avoid any point that does not suit their learned mantra.

Wow, I sure see that exactly opposite of you Rob.

So did I, until I stopped corrupting the Scripture and saying that sin passed upon all men from birth. Death passed upon all men, for all men have sinned, not for all men are born with sinful souls.

Until someone addresses this, then any argument for birth with sin nature is unproven, but only learned tradition of men.

but at any rate we all sin

At any rate Scripture says all have sinned. Not all are still sinning.

No man can possibly be a doer of the word, until they begin believing the word over their own desired thinking.

Sinners say they will sin, because they want to and choose to, not because they have to in obedience to a 'sin nature' from birth.

The sad thing is, if you are correct in your understanding that means like Adam, we chose to sin.

I.e. you would have to agree sin is chosen without excuse of being born to it from the womb.

And God declares sinners choose to:

Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

It is by choice, not by inherited sin nature of man's physical seed: All those who sin against God choose the evil and refuse the good and make themselves sinners against God.

A soul like Adam's is created equally by God without sin, and a babe knows neither and can do neither, and so cannot sin and become a sinner, until he learns to know good and evil, obedience and disobedience.

Being born again is becoming a babe again in conscience, not in age. A babe without sin nor having sinned. A newborn babe in Christ, but with knowledge like Adam.

And if a Christian returns to refusing the good to choose the evil, then he makes himself a transgressor like unto Adam.

For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

And so, the work is to remain babes without sinning, while growing to do righteousness.

Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

Clearly you desire to please God Rob, and you are very dedicated, so I must ask you this in light of your understanding of this. I guess I will have to say it point blank, I believe with your dedication, you have vowed in your heart not to sin, since you feel that is a quality we can possess. Do you think there is ever a day goes by that you do not do one sin? If you have a particular day in mind, lets use your memory to recall that day, and discuss it.

Keep in mind what sin is Rob. I will be the first to admit that none of us has to sin seriously, sins such as listed at 1 Cor 6:9,10, not one of us, to do that would be a choice, maybe that is what you are talking about, but it is like the little white lie, of course it is a sin, but not a serious one that might keep you from inheriting the Kingdom of God.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Nowhere in the Bible does it ever teach that the sin nature is inherited. Solomon wrote in Ecc. 7:29 that God man upright, which is the exact opposite of what you claim. Eph. 2, 2 Cor. 4, and Rev. 12 are but a few places where the Bible teaches that all of us have sinned because we surrendered to the anti-law broadcasts that Satan saturates the air with over the course of a lifetime. The difference between Jesus and every other human being that has ever lived is that there has never been a point where He surrendered to that broadcast.

To argue that people inherit the sin nature like it was a biological trait is absolutely ludicrous, primarily because it automatically means you have to believe that Jesus either inherited the sin nature from Mary or that He inherited perfection from her. This belief could be the Protestant equivalent of the Catholic tradition that Mary was sinless and didn't need a Savior.

The idea that people genetically inherited the sin nature calls God a liar, it is a subtle way of accusing God of setting the human race up to fail, and it's another excuse for people's refusal to follow His commandments. The reason why you are circling back to making anti-commandment arguments is that you're basically saying God might as well not expect people to keep His commandments since He made them a sinner out of the womb. At the end of the day, that's the core reason why anyone would subscribe to this heresy.

Then you have no idea how come you can see yourself naked.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No, still following Christ in His well trodden, blood sprinkled road...there is a way that seemeth right in the eyes of a man..would you mind if you and I can have a one on one?
Blessings
J.

Then why quote Spurgeon as if what he said was the truth, and Peter quoted Jesus saying "Be holy, as I am holy" is impossible? If you were actually following Christ, the words of man wouldn't mean so much to you for an excuse to not be holy.

I call that theology defeatism.

 

[Johann]

Then why quote Spurgeon as if what he said was the truth, and Peter quoted Jesus saying "Be holy, as I am holy is impossible?

Sister, are you holy?
Do you abstain from fleshly lusts?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Sister, are you holy?
Do you abstain from fleshly lusts?

Yes, are you? Revelation 22:11

 

[Johann]

Then why quote Spurgeon as if what he said was the truth, and Peter quoted Jesus saying "Be holy, as I am holy is impossible? If you were actually following Christ, the words of man wouldn't mean so much to you for an excuse to not be holy.

I call that theology defeatism.

Sorry to burst that egotistical bubble of yours..you should really study the scriptures and learn...you are not perfect and holy...and you want to "correct" me?

Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Learn the morphology and Syntax and yes, I listen to the Reformers and Puritans.
Your doctrine is full of error, not knowing the scriptures

 

[Johann]

Yes, are you? Revelation 22:11

Yes, are you? Revelation 22:11

Read Matt 25


Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Not even Paul made that statement...full of pride and error.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Sorry to burst that egotistical bubble of yours..you should really study the scriptures and learn...you are not perfect and holy...and you want to "correct" me?

Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Learn the morphology and Syntax and yes, I listen to the Reformers and Puritans.
Your doctrine is full of error, not knowing the scriptures

I too couldn't say I was perfect either, but in Paul's last letter before death (as where I am now)2 Timothy 4: he said I have finished the course, I have kept the faith. Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing. (1 John 3:3)

Revelation 22:11 shows that we must be either righteous, or have lived long enough to obtain holy.

J, believe beyond your worldly teachers.

 

[Johann]

I too couldn't say I was perfect either, but in Paul's last letter before death (as where I am now) he said I have finished the course, I have kept the faith. Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Revelation 22:11 shows that we must be either righteous, or have lived long enough to obtain holy.

...there is a way that seemeth right in the eyes of a man..but the end?
but in Paul's last letter before death (as where I am now)...sorry to hear about your condition..
Shalom
J.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

...there is a way that seemeth right in the eyes of a man..but the end?

Yes, J, the teachings of man seem right to them. That is why you shouldn't be following them.

I hear God's voice very clearly, and only teach what He tells me to teach. It is the truth.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

...there is a way that seemeth right in the eyes of a man..but the end?
but in Paul's last letter before death (as where I am now)...sorry to hear about your condition..
Shalom
J.

J, don't think on lust, obey Isaiah 26:3

You will keep him in perfect peace,
Whose mind is stayed on You,
Because he trusts in You.

Start memorizing verses of the Truth about Jesus taking away our sin (even the source of sin, the carnal flesh (nature), and not listening to famous teachers for itching ears justifying mankind's weaknesses. Believe Jesus, not the opposite doctrines of demons.

Trust the gospel. Romans 1:16 The power of God. You can be sinless. You can be perfect. You can be holy if you follow the Spirit and walk in Him forever.

 

[Johann]

Yes, J, the teachings of man seem right to them. That is why you shouldn't be following them.

I hear God's voice very clearly, and only teach what He tells me to teach. It is the truth.

....and what you are "hearing" and what you are teaching is heteros

Mortification of the flesh and the lusts thereof, the Imperative is on us to do it, does not apply to you?
A struggle all saints have till the day of our final redemption, to wit, the redemption of our bodies?
The scriptures is our final word, only those who are elect and chosen, filled with the Holy Spirit, sealed, a covenant can rightly cutting straight the D'var of Mashiach...there are no voive/voices but illumination and clarity re what stands written, Perfect Tense.


Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Col 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
Col 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
Col 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

Shalom to you (praying for you)
J.