Not Born with Sin Nature

[robert derrick]

Scripture nowhere speaks of a sin 'nature'.

Therefore, the use of the term is only found in man's traditional interpretation of Scripture elsewhere.

Since Scripture does not speak of a sin nature, but only men, then we need know what this sin 'nature' is by reasoning of men.

A sin nature, that is not physical in nature, must be spiritual in nature: a spirit of sin.

Saying sin is a nature, that is not physical, is calling sin a spirit: the spirit of this world, the prince and power of the air, the devil called Satan.

Speaking of a sin nature therefore is teaching a sin spirit, without calling it what it is by name in Scripture: Satan.

A sin nature that is not physically microbiotic, which can be seen with the natural eye, must be the sin spirit of the devil.

Being born with the sin nature is therefore born of Satan's sin spirit: all natural men therefore are born of the devil, by the sin spirit of the devil with his sin nature.

There would therefore be the divine nature of the Spirit of Christ, and the sin nature of the spirit of Satan, so that all newborn babes in the world are children of Satan, and all newborn babes in Christ are children of God.

For sin to be a spirit, then all newborn babes are of the devil, and Satan is their father by his sin spirit.

Children of the devil altogether born in sins and dying in their sins without salvation of Jesus Christ, will never be found written in the Lambs book of life, and so must be cast into the lake of fire forever.

Teaching anything different is to reject being born of the Satan's spirit of sin, and to excuse being an unsaved sinner unto death.

 

[ScottA]

The Pharisees did not misstate--you did. They knew the scriptures.

Good, that's right. I see we agree (at least that is what it looks like if you don't learn to use the quote function properly).

 

[robert derrick]

Sin is neither a nature nor a spirit unto itself, like the devil.

In all of Scripture, sin is an act, and Scripture declares that sin only enters in by sinning:

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

We sin or sin not. There is no sin nature and spirit independent of doing it on earth.

If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

God says if we do not well but sin, then having sinned and sinning is continually at our doorstep: once we commit sin, we become committed to sinning.

Sin, like love, is a verb, not a noun: there is no sin without sinning, and there is no love without loving.

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.

Sin is committing sin, and sins are committing sins.

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Sin is transgressing the law, and sins are transgressions of the law.

Where there is no sinning, there is no sin, even as where there is no trespassing and transgressing, the is no trespass and transgression.

There is no sin, trespass, and transgress 'nature' and spirit, nor is there a natural spirit of sin, trespass, and transgression.

There is no such thing as a spirit of nature, nor a natural spirit: that is pagan spiritism, where creation has a spirit of it's own.

Sin is created by sinning against God, first with Lucifer, then with Adam, and then with all men, for all have sinned.

The devil was the first that sinned, not the first creation of God made with sin.

When sinning stops, there is no sin, because there is no sinning: sin is not a spirit of it's own, but only an act against God.

 

[robert derrick]

Making 'sin' a spirit and nature of it's own is idolizing sin as more than an act, but is a spirit and god unto itself:

Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

There are no gods by nature, no gods born with natures of their own: sin is not a god by nature with spirit to be born of into the world.

Those who love the lie of being born with sin nature are idolizers of the spirit of the devil, and make him a god over themselves for life, who were born of him with his nature from the womb.

And the only simple reason for doing so, is to justify and excuse going on still in his sins and trespasses against God in this life unto death.

 

[robert derrick]

Sylvester Stallones porn adventures are well documented. Either someone hired a look alike to do the porn before Stallone had any starring roles or the published stories are accurate. As far as how I know, I'm literate.

However, I don't have a problem admitting to seeing pornagraphic materials for years. I worked in magazine shops that sold porn under the counter when it was still sold in brown paper bags to special customers. I lived in university dormitories where some students were encouraging active sexual encounters and played porn films in lobbies. I went to peep shoes on 42nd Street in Manhattan with friends when we spent days off roaming around New York city. And for years I spent a lot of free time in bars where women pranced around in underwear doing lude things for dollar bills.

It's my past and I'm not proud of how I lived , but I'm not ashamed of it either. I was in the world and of the world until I received Jesus Christ by faith. I've done worse, but how is any of my sin your business or anyone else's but the Lord's?
Are you some kind of heretic or servant of Satan?
I asked you a question about the Epistles written by Paul and you chose to evade it.

So, I ask you again in the name, power, and authority of Jesus the Christ. Did the Apostle lie about the doctrines of grace and our nature according to the flesh, and is the Bible the word of God?

Did the Apostle lie about the doctrines of grace

No you do. There is only one doctrine of Christ, not 'doctrines':

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection.

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.

The only 'doctrines' spoken of in Scripture are the false doctrines taught of men, not God:

Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace.

There is only grace of God taught in the one doctrine of Christ: the grace to help in time of need to endure temptation and overcome sin.

Grace of God is not for any man that bows to temptation by lust and commits the sin, because he has no desire nor use for anything to overcome the sin.

There is no bidding of God speed to the 'doctrines of grace', but only bidding good riddance to bad rubbish.

and our nature according to the flesh

No, you do to justify your continued sinning naturally.

Self confessed natural sinners need stop saying 'we' and 'our', when speaking with saints. It implies we are all the same natural sinners and not sanctified saints.

No man is born with sin nature in the flesh. The flesh is nothing. It is the spirit of man that sins in the flesh and with the body, and so are called sinners by God.

Blaming ongoing sins and trespasses on the natural body, is the final delusion of believing babes are conceived and born of the sin spirit of the devil.

 

[ScottA]

Here is an example of one person (me) quoting another person (you) in the proper use of the "Quote" or "Reply" feature:

Scripture nowhere speaks of a sin 'nature'.

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. Ephesians 2:1-3
​

You have been corrected.

 

[robert derrick]

Can't you see that false teachers teach what the natural man does - they sin. But not when you are born again with the Spirit. The problem is, those teachers teach what they've experienced, and because they have NOT been born again, they can't teach the truth spoken plainly in scripture in 1 John 3, and Romans 6 and 8, and many more they can't relate to. Now who do you relate to? The false teachers that teach what your own experience has been like, or those born again of the Spirit who can see clearly. You say I sin. That is because you don't know any other way to live. You haven't experienced the supernatural power of God changing you. All you know is facts about Jesus, but when you abide in Him, and He abides in you, you can't sin.

You DO sin...that's the problem

Is this not spiritually psychotic?

Someone claims are all continue doing sins. You say no for yourself. He declares with authority you DO sin. And then says that's the problem, you DOING sin??

Or else DOING sin is not the problem, but the only problem is not DOING sin. Which really is the problem they have: others not DOING their sins.

It's why Cain slew Abel, and the hypocrites slew Jesus.

When plain Scripture is rejected for one's own doctrine, then truly their mind and spirit are so corrupted, they really don't stop to think about what they are saying, when trying to justify themselves.

We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Since they won't hear the apostles, they certainly aren't going to listen anyone else.

 

[robert derrick]

Here is an example of one person (me) quoting another person (you) in the proper use of the "Quote" or "Reply" feature:

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. Ephesians 2:1-3
​

You have been corrected.

No Scripture speaks of a 'sin nature', nor a spirit of sin, and so you do not quote one.

and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. Ephesians 2:1-3

Sinners make themselves children of wrath by nature, not sinners born with sin nature from the womb.

It is the wage and wrath of sin that passes upon all men, for all have sinned. It is not the sin nature passing within all men, which would make all men by nature children of wrath from the womb. So you have a problem with them predestined and chosen to be Calvinists.

By nature in Scripture is neither saying nor teaching born by nature, which is what you naturally add to Scripture.

By nature in Scripture only speaks of what men do naturally, not how they were born:

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves.

If doing by nature is being born by nature, then Gentiles would be doing the law from natural birth, and so would be justified with God from the womb, since only them doing the law are justified.

This contradicts your own Pharisitical tradition.

And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles.

Jews were the circumcision by nature: not because they were born circumcised in the flesh, but because they were born of them that naturally circumcise all their sons on the 8th day.

They are the circumcision by nature, who by nature did circumcise the flesh according to the law of Moses.

By nature is by doing, not by natural birth.

You have been corrected.

I do not correct you, because I only quote Scripture and give the exact sense of it, without adding to or taking away from the words written.

Like your Pharisee fathers, you are not correctible, because this is foreign to you. You cannot help yourself but to insert your own tradition into all Scripture. And it wasn't by you being born of the devil from the womb, but by you giving yourself to his spirit daily in reading of Scripture.

And so you do so quite naturally, as by nature.

I only love seeing the wisdom of God writing Scripture in such a way, so as to ensnare all lies at every turn, and taking the crafty in their own craftiness in every point.

 

[robert derrick]

The teaching of inherited sin is not that sin passes upon all men, but rather that inherited sin passes with conception in the womb: within babes conceived therein. The teaching that that inherited sin passes within the babe as a nature like DNA:

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

Death passed upon all men, not within any man: only that by which a babe is conceived passes within every babe in the womb.

It is the same for every creature conceived and born into the world: to be naturally conceived after their physical kind, whether lion or man.

Sin does not pass within man in the womb, nor does death: souls born into the world are not born dead, because they are not born with sin passing within from parent to child.

Death only passes upon men after the womb in this life, when they sin against God, and so death has passed upon all men, because all men have sinned after the womb.

It is the death of the soul Scripture speaks of, that does not pass within at conception, because it is souls that commit sin, not the body of flesh of it's own accord: Souls commit sins, not bodies. Souls die for sinning, not mortal bodies. Sin does not pass within souls at birth, and so neither does death.

Only when men sin does sin enter upon the soul, and so is found to be a transgressor against God, with death passing upon every soul that sins.

There is no healing of thy bruise; thy wound is grievous: all that hear the bruit of thee shall clap the hands over thee: for upon whom hath not thy wickedness passed continually?

And so both sins and death pass upon men in life after the womb; the sins of men and their judgment of death pass upon themselves and others that are affected by them to do the same:

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them.

Sins passed upon the children of Israel by the device of Balaam, when they were taught to fornicate with the strange women of the land, and so death passed upon them, when they sinned against the Lord.

Those who hold to the false tradition that sins pass within babes in the womb, do so to justify their sins of the devil in this life.

And Christian sinners that teach that lie, to justify their own enmity with God, will be held accountable for evilly affecting other foolish Galatians and causing children of Israel of God to continue sinning the same as they, with excuse of being born that way within the womb:

Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

 

[ScottA]

No Scripture speaks of a 'sin nature', nor a spirit of sin, and so you do not quote one.

and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. Ephesians 2:1-3

Sinners make themselves children of wrath by nature, not sinners born with sin nature from the womb.

It is the wage and wrath of sin that passes upon all men, for all have sinned. It is not the sin nature passing within all men, which would make all men by nature children of wrath from the womb. So you have a problem with them predestined and chosen to be Calvinists.

By nature in Scripture is neither saying nor teaching born by nature, which is what you naturally add to Scripture.

By nature in Scripture only speaks of what men do naturally, not how they were born:

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves.

If doing by nature is being born by nature, then Gentiles would be doing the law from natural birth, and so would be justified with God from the womb, since only them doing the law are justified.

This contradicts your own Pharisitical tradition.

And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles.

Jews were the circumcision by nature: not because they were born circumcised in the flesh, but because they were born of them that naturally circumcise all their sons on the 8th day.

They are the circumcision by nature, who by nature did circumcise the flesh according to the law of Moses.

By nature is by doing, not by natural birth.

You have been corrected.

I do not correct you, because I only quote Scripture and give the exact sense of it, without adding to or taking away from the words written.

Like your Pharisee fathers, you are not correctible, because this is foreign to you. You cannot help yourself but to insert your own tradition into all Scripture. And it wasn't by you being born of the devil from the womb, but by you giving yourself to his spirit daily in reading of Scripture.

And so you do so quite naturally, as by nature.

I only love seeing the wisdom of God writing Scripture in such a way, so as to ensnare all lies at every turn, and taking the crafty in their own craftiness in every point.

Never mind.

You are blind. I gave you the scripture (Ephesians 2:1-3). You denying it is on you.

I leave you to Satan.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

From now on I am going to be very selective in dialogue.
Can you prove the Reformed doctrines wrong? Not even the scriptures agree with what you are believing Sister.
Shalom
J.

Reformed doctrine says you are totally depraved. Do they mean after accepting Jesus? Paul and John refer to that as only before being cleansed of all unrighteousness and becoming dead to sin. 1 John 1:9/Acts of the Apostles 2:38, and Romans 6:1-2, Romans 8:1-9. But you are convinced that Christians sin. From whom? Reformed doctrine? I'm sure some fake Christians do sin willfully even.

1 John 3:1-24.
Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.

13 Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

16 By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?

18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

 

[Johann]

But you are convinced that Christians sin.

Dear @
@1stCenturyLady

What you hold onto is Wesleyan perfectionism...the total eradication of the sinful nature, not found in Scriptures
Church of Nazarene, Charles Finney, no Lordship salvation...these all promulgate entire sanctification and permeated the kosmos

Please listen to sound, biblical doctrine...
Please, give me your feedback after you have listened since there are many here on Christian forum that believe as you do.
J.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Scripture nowhere speaks of a sin 'nature

Wow, after so much study you missed a crucial aspect of human nature explained in the Bible as the flesh (sarx). This is the natural man, bent towards sin and rebelliousness, exercising all kinds of evil - THE FLESH!
>> Do you understand what our flesh is? It is not just our physical being, it also includes our soul - which is the invisible part of us: mind, will emotions, personality (which is just a range of habits). Within lies the sin, it dwells in the members of our flesh. What do you think "our members" refers to, hands, feet, tongue, sexual organs, your physical body? No, the heart of man is his soul.
Animals even have souls, they just don't have a spiritual compartment designed only for man and that compartment is dead when we are born. It doesn't work. Jesus quickens our spirits by His cleansing and baptizes us with His Spirit and it is born a new creature, now able to commune with God and is where God dwells.
The Spirit now influences change
to our soul gradually healing and removing these bad habits and directing our behavior. We still have this remnance of the old self that sometimes desires to surface but with the help of the Spirit and our new nature, that is now His servant, we learn self control to say no, to mortify these temptations daily - or do you think Christians aren't still tempted?
We are continuously encouraged to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh. If it wasn't possible to blackslide into our old ways, all these warnings and trials wouldn't be necessary. The race would be finished - it's not though until we die. Spiritually it is but we still battle with the flesh - or have you not realized that the spirit wars against the flesh and vice versa?

 

[Johann]

Wow, after so much study you missed a crucial aspect of human nature explained in the Bible as the flesh (sarx). This is the natural man, bent towards sin and rebelliousness, exercising all kinds of evil - THE FLESH!
>> Do you understand what our flesh is? It is not just our physical being, it also includes our soul - which is the invisible part of us: mind, will emotions, personality (which is just a range of habits). Within lies the sin, it dwells in the members of our flesh. What do you think "our members" refers to, hands, feet, tongue, sexual organs, your physical body? No, the heart of man is his soul.
Animals even have souls, they just don't have a spiritual compartment designed only for man and that compartment is dead when we are born. It doesn't work. Jesus quickens our spirits by His cleansing and baltizes us with His Spirit and it is born a new creature, now able to commune with God and is where God dwells.
The Spirit now influences change
to our soul gradually healing and removing these bad habits and directing our behavior. We still have this remnance of the old self that sometimes desires to surface but with the help of the Spirit and our new nature, that is now His servant, we learn self control to say no, to mortify these temptations daily - or do you think Christians aren't still tempted?
We are continuously encouraged to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh. If it wasn't possible to blackslide into our old ways, all these warnings and trials wouldn't be necessary. The race would be finished - it's not though until we die. Spiritually it is but we still battle with the flesh - or have you not realized that the spirit wars against the flesh and vice versa?

Well said @Ronald David Bruno
If I could, I would have "liked" this a 100x
Blessings
J.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

@Johann

I do not agree with his view on me as entire sanctification before regeneration. No, it is at the same moment. We are sanctified when we are justified, at that moment when all sin and the sin nature itself is removed. 1 John 3:5. JMc goes on in contempt. For one thing he doesn't know the meaning of sanctification. It is not the process we go through, but is merely being set apart unto good works and happens at the same time as Justification. That is why in Hebrews 10:26-31 "sanctified" is past tense. That is also why only justification is noted in Romans 8:29-30, and sanctification is not even mentioned. The process through our life is called glorification, noted at the end of Romans 8:30. Only at the end of glorification are we perfect. But sinlessness can be kept by not going against our conscience 1 John 3:21, and living up to the knowledge that we have at every stage of maturity in Christ, Phil. 3:16. JMc is using absolutely NO SCRIPTURES to prove why he has contempt for the scriptures that John Wesley bases his beliefs! If you don't know the Word of God as well as I do, then you might fall into his trap.

Now he is slandering, per usual, against John Wesley's teaching on holiness. He says that holiness has "infected" the Protestant movement. His contempt is why his followers cannot believe freedom from sin. That is like the natural man in 1 cor. 2:9-16 believing such beliefs are foolishness. He is not giving any scriptures based to contradict John Wesley. But John Wesley has plenty of Scripture to contradict Calvinism. The scriptures are so clear, how do you not see it?

I will finish listening to this unholy garbage, but I'll have to take a shower after. I know you think it is wonderful and could help me understand the horrors of holiness, and I appreciate the thought, but honestly, how can you not see his absolute disregard for what Scripture and what Jesus accomplished? I have another of his books called "Strange Fire." It was so bad, you could feel the demons jumping around on the pages. I only read about 18 pages, and couldn't read any further. If I believed in burning books, that would be one that should be. It is so filled with hate, it grieves my spirit. And this message I'm listening to is just as hate-filled. And you like that???????????????????????

Now he is accusing us of things I've never even heard of and lumping us altogether. Any cult or crazy person with a dog he's ever heard of he projects on to us. Johann I pray you come out of his contempt that has the congregation in stitches laughing.

Now he gives no credit to the Spirits work in us, but giving all the credit to us working out our own salvation. You see, he's never received the Spirit so therefore is clueless to His power.

I thought I could finish it, but nope, its making me sick.

 

[Johann]

@Johann

I do not agree with his view on me as entire sanctification before regeneration. No, it is at the same moment. We are sanctified when we are justified, at that moment when all sin and the sin nature itself is removed. 1 John 3:5. JMc goes on in contempt. For one thing he doesn't know the meaning of sanctification. It is not the process we go through, but is merely being set apart unto good works and happens at the same time as Justification. That is why in Hebrews 10:26-31 "sanctified" is past tense. That is also why only justification is noted in Romans 8:29-30, and sanctification is not even mentioned. The process through our life is called glorification, noted at the end of Romans 8:30. Only at the end of glorification are we perfect. But sinlessness can be kept by not going against our conscience 1 John 3:21, and living up to the knowledge that we have at every stage of maturity in Christ, Phil. 3:16. JMc is using absolutely NO SCRIPTURES to prove why he has contempt for the scriptures that John Wesley bases his beliefs! If you don't know the Word of God as well as I do, then you might fall into his trap.

Now he is slandering, per usual, against John Wesley's teaching on holiness. He says that holiness has "infected" the Protestant movement. His contempt is why his followers cannot believe freedom from sin. That is like the natural man in 1 cor. 2:9-16 believing such beliefs are foolishness. He is not giving any scriptures based to contradict John Wesley. But John Wesley has plenty of Scripture to contradict Calvinism. The scriptures are so clear, how do you not see it?

I will finish listening to this unholy garbage, but I'll have to take a shower after. I know you think it is wonderful and could help me understand the horrors of holiness, and I appreciate the thought, but honestly, how can you not see his absolute disregard for what Scripture and what Jesus accomplished? I have another of his books called "Strange Fire." It was so bad, you could feel the demons jumping around on the pages. I only read about 18 pages, and couldn't read any further. If I believed in burning books, that would be one that should be. It is so filled with hate, it grieves my spirit. And this message I'm listening to is just as hate-filled. And you like that???????????????????????

Now he is accusing us of things I've never even heard of and lumping us altogether. Any cult or crazy person with a dog he's ever heard of he projects on to us. Johann I pray you come out of his contempt that has the congregation in stitches laughing.

Now he gives no credit to the Spirits work in us, but giving all the credit to us working out our own salvation. You see, he's never received the Spirit so therefore is clueless to His power.

I thought I could finish it, but nope, its making me sick.

@1stCenturyLady
This was a vehement reaction, not response, to doctrinal truth.
Thank you for your time
Blessings
J.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

@1stCenturyLady
This was a vehement reaction, not response, to doctrinal truth.
Thank you for your time
Blessings
J.

What you are calling doctrinal truth is not based on Scripture, but Calvinism doctrine. Can you really be so obtuse to think I would love to hear such contempt at what scripture says, to say nothing of his ridicule of John Wesley?

I will leave you with what Jesus says to the Churches in His letters in Revelation. This one is to the age of the Reformation.

“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,

‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. (Martin Luther and John Calvin. Keeping both the sin nature, and the new nature.) 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. (John Wesley on holiness. Walk in the Spirit free from sin). 5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

6 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’

 

[Johann]

What you are calling doctrinal truth is not based on Scripture, but Calvinism doctrine.

I will leave you with what Jesus says to the Churches in His letters in Revelation. This one is to the age of the Reformation.

“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,

‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. (Martin Luther and John Calvin. Keeping both the sin nature, and the new nature.) 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. (John Wesley on holiness. Walk in the Spirit free from sin). 5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

6 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’

@1stCenturyLady

I am not a Calvanist, just to let you know.
press the "ignore button"
Blessings
J.

 

[Johann]

And this message I'm listening to is just as hate-filled. And you like that???????????????????????

I listen to truth

Heb_4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Also....

1Jn_4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Blessings
Johann

 

[Johann]

You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. (John Wesley on holiness. Walk in the Spirit free from sin)

I don't listen to sects but to aleithia as it
stands written in scriptures, Perfect Tense.
I test ta panta by the scriptures, even myself

2Co_13:5 Examine yourselves,( including myself) whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?