No Exceptions: Jesus Was Talking to You

[bdavidc]

I look forward to reading through the Bible in a year because just about every day I see something new, and it makes me think, "How does this apply to us today?" One verse that stood out recently was when Peter said, “Lord, are you telling this parable for us or for all?” (Luke 12:41). At first, I thought, “What?” — it just didn’t seem to fit, and it almost looked like Jesus ignored the question. But He didn’t. Instead of giving a direct answer, He responded with another parable that carried a deeper message, showing that His teaching was meant for more than just the disciples, it was a warning and a call to faithfulness for all who hear.

Jesus doesn’t answer with a simple yes or no. Instead, He gives a deeper lesson about what it means to be a faithful servant. He speaks of a servant who is entrusted with his master’s household, called to feed and care for others faithfully until the master returns. The reward for such faithfulness is great; the servant will be set over all the master’s possessions. But if that servant is lazy or self-serving, forgetting the master's return, he will be punished. The message is clear: this call to faithfulness applies to anyone who has been entrusted with knowledge of God’s will.

That includes all who are truly saved and born again. Every child of God has been given the Holy Spirit, the Word of God, and the responsibility to live according to the truth. Jesus’ words show that with knowledge comes accountability. To be a believer is not simply to receive salvation and stop there, it is to be a steward of the gospel, a worker in God’s kingdom, and a voice for His truth.

One key part of this responsibility is knowing the Bible personally. God does not call believers to depend solely on others for understanding His Word. Instead, He commands that each believer read, study, and meditate on Scripture through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. As 2 Timothy 2:15 says, “Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.” This isn’t written to the preachers but everyone and it is not a suggestion. It’s a command. Every believer is to be diligent in learning and applying God’s Word.

And it doesn’t stop with personal study. Believers are called to share the truth of Scripture with others. Whether in conversations with unbelievers, encouraging fellow Christians, or teaching in more formal settings, all followers of Christ have a role in spreading His truth. In Matthew 28:19–20, Jesus commands, “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations … teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.” This commission wasn’t given to just a few; it was given to all who follow Him.

Defending the faith is also part of this calling. In 1 Peter 3:15, believers are told to “always be prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect.” This means being ready to speak the truth when it’s challenged, to explain the gospel clearly, and to stand firm in a world that is always resisting it.

Faithful stewardship of God’s truth is not reserved for pastors or scholars like many false teachers want you to believe, it is the calling of every believer. If someone claims to know Christ but has no hunger for His Word, no desire to grow in understanding, and no willingness to share or defend the truth, it calls for serious self-examination. Jesus said in John 8:31, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples.” But some may say, “Well I am not one of the disciples.” And I say if you are not you better be worried. When the Bible says, “you are truly my disciples,” it is referring to those who not only profess to follow Jesus but who continue in His Word and live in obedience to Him. In John 8:31, Jesus says, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples.” This shows that being a true disciple is marked by a continual relationship with His Word, reading it, believing it, obeying it, and allowing it to shape your life.

Not everyone who claims to be a child of God is necessarily a true disciple. Scripture makes it clear that there is a difference between outward profession and genuine, saving faith. In Matthew 7:21–23, Jesus warns that many will say “Lord, Lord” but will be turned away because they did not do the will of the Father. True children of God are those who have been born again by the Spirit and bear fruit that reflects that new life (John 15:5–8). They will not be perfect, but they will have a heart that desires to follow Christ, to repent of sin, to grow in holiness, and to abide in His truth.

So, while all true disciples are children of God, not everyone who claims to be a child of God is necessarily a child of God. The evidence is seen in a life that continues in God’s Word and reflects a growing love for Him and His truth.

To be born again is to be changed and to be made new, filled with the Spirit, and entrusted with the truth. And with that comes a God-given command: know the Word, live the Word, share the Word, and defend the Word. This is not optional. It is the life of one who truly follows Christ.

If You’re Saved, You’re Called to Know and Share the Word

 

[Fred J]

Well said, not forgetting, Jesus said that except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of GOD.

Water baptism is, in faith publicly one declare in burying one's old self and coming out a new person/creature.

Besides also born of the Spirit and become a spirit man, as He's the Helper and Comforter within.

He speak not of Himself but to all of Christ's teaching and of Christ, according to the New Testament.

And too references in the Old and leading a child of GOD to a man of GOD into the full truth. (2Timothy3:16&17)

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

 

[Aunty Jane]

When the Bible says, “you are truly my disciples,” it is referring to those who not only profess to follow Jesus but who continue in His Word and live in obedience to Him. In John 8:31, Jesus says, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples.” This shows that being a true disciple is marked by a continual relationship with His Word, reading it, believing it, obeying it, and allowing it to shape your life.

Absolute truth there….but since we encounter so many who sincerely think that what they believe is absolute truth….where do you draw the line?

Not everyone who claims to be a child of God is necessarily a true disciple. Scripture makes it clear that there is a difference between outward profession and genuine, saving faith. In Matthew 7:21–23, Jesus warns that many will say “Lord, Lord” but will be turned away because they did not do the will of the Father.

Since Jesus tells “many” who think that they are his disciples, that he “NEVER KNEW” them….how do you tell the difference? What is “the will of the Father” that they are NOT doing?

True children of God are those who have been born again by the Spirit and bear fruit that reflects that new life (John 15:5–8). They will not be perfect, but they will have a heart that desires to follow Christ, to repent of sin, to grow in holiness, and to abide in His truth.

This is the only part that I would disagree with, as a student of the Bible myself, the study of detail is important to me, as often the details tell more of a story that we think.

So what does it mean to be “born again”? Many on these forums will tell you that they have been “born again” but are hard pressed to tell you exactly what it means…and most have very different experiences as to how it happened.…and what actually happened.

Was this the experience of the first century Christians? How did “God’s spirit bear witness with their spirit” that they had experienced an adoption as a “son (or daughter) of God”?

What is the purpose of their adoption, and what does it mean in the big picture?

Do you have a “big picture“ @bdavidc ? Starting in Genesis and finishing in Revelation….what is the Bible’s overall theme? Why are we here? Where are we going…..and what does the future hold for us in that one big picture?
To be fair, I will leave you to answer before I continue, as I am sure you have a scriptural response to those questions….?

So, while all true disciples are children of God, not everyone who claims to be a child of God is necessarily a child of God. The evidence is seen in a life that continues in God’s Word and reflects a growing love for Him and His truth.

I might also ask your opinion of a statement made by the apostle Paul that I found intriguing…..
In his opening statements to the Corinthian congregation he said….

“To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours“ (1 Cor 1:2 ESV)
Paul seems to be referring to the “saints” (or holy ones) as separate to others who also call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ….”BOTH THEIR LORD AND OURS”.

Can there be more than one group that are saved?…..are the “saints” saved in a different way to those who also serve the Lord Jesus, but in a different capacity?

Revelation also seems to allude to these two groups….
Rev 7: 4, 9-10, 13-14…

”And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel”. . . .

Rev 14:1-4 also speaks about this numbered group….

”Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. . . . .and they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb”. (ESV)

The Jews knew what “firstfruits” are…but do we?

Rev 7 continues….
“After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”. . . . .Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?” I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.“ (ESV)

If the 144,000 are standing on “Mt Zion”, is this a geographical location on earth?….. or is it the “heavenly Jerusalem” on a heavenly “Mt Zion” where the “new Jerusalem” is located, as pictured in Heb 12:22….

Now, if there are two groups who are saved, but only one group of 144,000 are called “saints”……who then are the “great multitude” seen attributing salvation to God and the Lamb?

These are seen to “come out of the great tribulation” which occurs on earth. What is their identity and to what destiny are they to saved to?

Please take you time as I would like to hear your view of these things…..

 

[PS95]

View attachment 61190
I look forward to reading through the Bible in a year because just about every day I see something new, and it makes me think, "How does this apply to us today?" One verse that stood out recently was when Peter said, “Lord, are you telling this parable for us or for all?” (Luke 12:41). At first, I thought, “What?” — it just didn’t seem to fit, and it almost looked like Jesus ignored the question. But He didn’t. Instead of giving a direct answer, He responded with another parable that carried a deeper message, showing that His teaching was meant for more than just the disciples, it was a warning and a call to faithfulness for all who hear.

Jesus doesn’t answer with a simple yes or no. Instead, He gives a deeper lesson about what it means to be a faithful servant. He speaks of a servant who is entrusted with his master’s household, called to feed and care for others faithfully until the master returns. The reward for such faithfulness is great; the servant will be set over all the master’s possessions. But if that servant is lazy or self-serving, forgetting the master's return, he will be punished. The message is clear: this call to faithfulness applies to anyone who has been entrusted with knowledge of God’s will.

That includes all who are truly saved and born again. Every child of God has been given the Holy Spirit, the Word of God, and the responsibility to live according to the truth. Jesus’ words show that with knowledge comes accountability. To be a believer is not simply to receive salvation and stop there, it is to be a steward of the gospel, a worker in God’s kingdom, and a voice for His truth.

One key part of this responsibility is knowing the Bible personally. God does not call believers to depend solely on others for understanding His Word. Instead, He commands that each believer read, study, and meditate on Scripture through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. As 2 Timothy 2:15 says, “Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.” This isn’t written to the preachers but everyone and it is not a suggestion. It’s a command. Every believer is to be diligent in learning and applying God’s Word.

And it doesn’t stop with personal study. Believers are called to share the truth of Scripture with others. Whether in conversations with unbelievers, encouraging fellow Christians, or teaching in more formal settings, all followers of Christ have a role in spreading His truth. In Matthew 28:19–20, Jesus commands, “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations … teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.” This commission wasn’t given to just a few; it was given to all who follow Him.

Defending the faith is also part of this calling. In 1 Peter 3:15, believers are told to “always be prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect.” This means being ready to speak the truth when it’s challenged, to explain the gospel clearly, and to stand firm in a world that is always resisting it.

Faithful stewardship of God’s truth is not reserved for pastors or scholars like many false teachers want you to believe, it is the calling of every believer. If someone claims to know Christ but has no hunger for His Word, no desire to grow in understanding, and no willingness to share or defend the truth, it calls for serious self-examination. Jesus said in John 8:31, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples.” But some may say, “Well I am not one of the disciples.” And I say if you are not you better be worried. When the Bible says, “you are truly my disciples,” it is referring to those who not only profess to follow Jesus but who continue in His Word and live in obedience to Him. In John 8:31, Jesus says, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples.” This shows that being a true disciple is marked by a continual relationship with His Word, reading it, believing it, obeying it, and allowing it to shape your life.

Not everyone who claims to be a child of God is necessarily a true disciple. Scripture makes it clear that there is a difference between outward profession and genuine, saving faith. In Matthew 7:21–23, Jesus warns that many will say “Lord, Lord” but will be turned away because they did not do the will of the Father. True children of God are those who have been born again by the Spirit and bear fruit that reflects that new life (John 15:5–8). They will not be perfect, but they will have a heart that desires to follow Christ, to repent of sin, to grow in holiness, and to abide in His truth.

So, while all true disciples are children of God, not everyone who claims to be a child of God is necessarily a child of God. The evidence is seen in a life that continues in God’s Word and reflects a growing love for Him and His truth.

To be born again is to be changed and to be made new, filled with the Spirit, and entrusted with the truth. And with that comes a God-given command: know the Word, live the Word, share the Word, and defend the Word. This is not optional. It is the life of one who truly follows Christ.

If You’re Saved, You’re Called to Know and Share the Word

Hi David, Thank you for your thoughtful post of the parable.

 

[Hidden In Him]

View attachment 61190
I look forward to reading through the Bible in a year because just about every day I see something new, and it makes me think, "How does this apply to us today?" One verse that stood out recently was when Peter said, “Lord, are you telling this parable for us or for all?” (Luke 12:41). At first, I thought, “What?” — it just didn’t seem to fit, and it almost looked like Jesus ignored the question. But He didn’t. Instead of giving a direct answer, He responded with another parable that carried a deeper message, showing that His teaching was meant for more than just the disciples, it was a warning and a call to faithfulness for all who hear.

Jesus doesn’t answer with a simple yes or no. Instead, He gives a deeper lesson about what it means to be a faithful servant. He speaks of a servant who is entrusted with his master’s household, called to feed and care for others faithfully until the master returns. The reward for such faithfulness is great; the servant will be set over all the master’s possessions. But if that servant is lazy or self-serving, forgetting the master's return, he will be punished. The message is clear: this call to faithfulness applies to anyone who has been entrusted with knowledge of God’s will.

That includes all who are truly saved and born again. Every child of God has been given the Holy Spirit, the Word of God, and the responsibility to live according to the truth. Jesus’ words show that with knowledge comes accountability. To be a believer is not simply to receive salvation and stop there, it is to be a steward of the gospel, a worker in God’s kingdom, and a voice for His truth.

One key part of this responsibility is knowing the Bible personally. God does not call believers to depend solely on others for understanding His Word. Instead, He commands that each believer read, study, and meditate on Scripture through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. As 2 Timothy 2:15 says, “Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.” This isn’t written to the preachers but everyone and it is not a suggestion. It’s a command. Every believer is to be diligent in learning and applying God’s Word.

And it doesn’t stop with personal study. Believers are called to share the truth of Scripture with others. Whether in conversations with unbelievers, encouraging fellow Christians, or teaching in more formal settings, all followers of Christ have a role in spreading His truth. In Matthew 28:19–20, Jesus commands, “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations … teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.” This commission wasn’t given to just a few; it was given to all who follow Him.

Defending the faith is also part of this calling. In 1 Peter 3:15, believers are told to “always be prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect.” This means being ready to speak the truth when it’s challenged, to explain the gospel clearly, and to stand firm in a world that is always resisting it.

Faithful stewardship of God’s truth is not reserved for pastors or scholars like many false teachers want you to believe, it is the calling of every believer. If someone claims to know Christ but has no hunger for His Word, no desire to grow in understanding, and no willingness to share or defend the truth, it calls for serious self-examination. Jesus said in John 8:31, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples.” But some may say, “Well I am not one of the disciples.” And I say if you are not you better be worried. When the Bible says, “you are truly my disciples,” it is referring to those who not only profess to follow Jesus but who continue in His Word and live in obedience to Him. In John 8:31, Jesus says, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples.” This shows that being a true disciple is marked by a continual relationship with His Word, reading it, believing it, obeying it, and allowing it to shape your life.

Not everyone who claims to be a child of God is necessarily a true disciple. Scripture makes it clear that there is a difference between outward profession and genuine, saving faith. In Matthew 7:21–23, Jesus warns that many will say “Lord, Lord” but will be turned away because they did not do the will of the Father. True children of God are those who have been born again by the Spirit and bear fruit that reflects that new life (John 15:5–8). They will not be perfect, but they will have a heart that desires to follow Christ, to repent of sin, to grow in holiness, and to abide in His truth.

So, while all true disciples are children of God, not everyone who claims to be a child of God is necessarily a child of God. The evidence is seen in a life that continues in God’s Word and reflects a growing love for Him and His truth.

To be born again is to be changed and to be made new, filled with the Spirit, and entrusted with the truth. And with that comes a God-given command: know the Word, live the Word, share the Word, and defend the Word. This is not optional. It is the life of one who truly follows Christ.

If You’re Saved, You’re Called to Know and Share the Word

Nice post.

 

[bdavidc]

Absolute truth there….but since we encounter so many who sincerely think that what they believe is absolute truth….where do you draw the line?

You draw the line by measuring everything against God’s Word, not personal sincerity or emotion. Many people are sincere, but they can be sincerely wrong. The Bible is the final authority for truth (John 17:17), and Jesus said clearly, “If you abide in My word, you are truly My disciples” (John 8:31). That’s the standard. Not tradition, not personal experience, not popular opinion. When what someone believes contradicts Scripture, especially regarding who Jesus is, how we are saved, or how we’re called to live, it’s not truth, no matter how passionately it’s believed. We’re told to test every spirit (1 John 4:1) and to be like the Bereans, who examined the Scriptures daily to see if what they heard was true (Acts 17:11). The line is drawn wherever God’s Word draws it, truth is not flexible. We must hold to what is written and let that be the foundation for discernment.

Since Jesus tells “many” who think that they are his disciples, that he “NEVER KNEW” them….how do you tell the difference? What is “the will of the Father” that they are NOT doing?

The “will of the Father” is clearly laid out in God’s Word. First and foremost, it is to believe in the One He has sent, Jesus Christ (John 6:29). That belief isn’t just intellectual agreement, it’s a surrender that leads to a transformed life. The will of the Father also includes turning from sin, walking in holiness (1 Thessalonians 4:3), obeying Christ’s commands (John 14:15), and bearing fruit that comes from the Spirit (Galatians 5:22–23). Those who are truly born again will not continue in habitual, unrepentant sin (1 John 3:6–10). The difference is in the fruit: true disciples not only hear His words but obey them (Matthew 7:24–27). That’s how we know who truly belongs to Him.

 

[bdavidc]

So what does it mean to be “born again”? Many on these forums will tell you that they have been “born again” but are hard pressed to tell you exactly what it means…and most have very different experiences as to how it happened.…and what actually happened.

That’s an important observation, and it’s true, not everyone who claims to be “born again” truly is. Jesus Himself warned that many would say to Him, “Lord, Lord,” but would be rejected because they did not actually do the will of the Father (Matthew 7:21–23). Being born again is not just a feeling or a one-time emotional event, it’s the supernatural work of God where a person is made spiritually alive through repentance and faith in Jesus Christ (John 3:3–7; Titus 3:5). This new birth results in a changed heart and a changed life. Jesus said, “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments” (John 14:15). A true believer will have a growing desire to obey Christ, to turn away from sin, and to live according to His Word.

Many people claim the name “Christian,” but some are false converts, those who may profess Christ with their mouth but deny Him by how they live (Titus 1:16). Scripture tells us we will know a tree by its fruit (Matthew 7:16–20). Those truly born again will not be perfect, but their lives will show evidence of the Holy Spirit’s work, fruit like love, joy, peace, patience, and self-control (Galatians 5:22–23). If there’s no transformation, no desire for holiness, no repentance, then the claim of being born again is empty. The new birth is not just a title, it’s a total heart change that leads to a new way of life.

 

[bdavidc]

Was this the experience of the first century Christians? How did “God’s spirit bear witness with their spirit” that they had experienced an adoption as a “son (or daughter) of God”?

What is the purpose of their adoption, and what does it mean in the big picture?

Yes, this was absolutely the experience of the first-century Christians. When someone truly repents and believes in Jesus Christ, they are born again and adopted into God’s family. Romans 8:15–16 explains it clearly: “You have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, ‘Abba! Father!’ The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.” That internal witness of the Holy Spirit gives the believer assurance, conviction, and a new identity. It’s not just a feeling, it’s the Spirit testifying through a transformed life, a hunger for righteousness, and a desire to obey God.

The purpose of this adoption is deeply relational. We are no longer enemies of God, but His beloved children (Galatians 4:4–7). Through Christ, we gain access to the Father, the inheritance of eternal life, and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. In the big picture, adoption is part of God’s redemptive plan to reconcile fallen humanity to Himself and to form a people who reflect His character and glory. From Genesis to Revelation, the Bible tells the story of how God redeems and restores what sin destroyed, bringing us from spiritual death into a living relationship with Him through His Son. Our adoption secures our future, gives us purpose in the present, and points to the day when we will be fully glorified with Christ.

 

[bdavidc]

Do you have a “big picture“ @bdavidc ? Starting in Genesis and finishing in Revelation….what is the Bible’s overall theme? Why are we here? Where are we going…..and what does the future hold for us in that one big picture?
To be fair, I will leave you to answer before I continue, as I am sure you have a scriptural response to those questions….?

Yes, there absolutely is a “big picture” that runs from Genesis to Revelation, and it centers on God’s plan to redeem a people for Himself through Jesus Christ. In Genesis, we see the creation of a perfect world and the introduction of sin through man’s rebellion. That sin brought separation from God, death, and a curse on creation. But even in the midst of judgment, God gave a promise, that the seed of the woman would crush the serpent’s head (Genesis 3:15). The rest of Scripture unfolds that promise being fulfilled.

Why are we here? We were created to glorify God, to enjoy Him, and to live in relationship with Him (Isaiah 43:7). But sin broke that relationship. The law was given to expose sin (Romans 3:20), and the prophets pointed to a coming Savior. In the fullness of time, Jesus came, lived a sinless life, died for our sins, and rose again, making a way for us to be forgiven, adopted, and reconciled to God (2 Corinthians 5:18–21).

Where are we going? Those who repent and put their faith in Jesus Christ are saved, not just from judgment, but to a new life. The end of the Bible, in Revelation, shows us the final outcome: Christ returns, sin and death are judged, and God dwells with His redeemed people forever in a new heaven and new earth (Revelation 21:1–4). The future for the believer is eternal life in the presence of God, free from sin, sorrow, and death.

The big picture is this: Creation, Fall, Redemption, and Restoration, all centered on the person and work of Jesus Christ. That’s the story of the Bible and the hope of all who belong to Him.

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes, there absolutely is a “big picture” that runs from Genesis to Revelation, and it centers on God’s plan to redeem a people for Himself through Jesus Christ. In Genesis, we see the creation of a perfect world and the introduction of sin through man’s rebellion. That sin brought separation from God, death, and a curse on creation. But even in the midst of judgment, God gave a promise, that the seed of the woman would crush the serpent’s head (Genesis 3:15). The rest of Scripture unfolds that promise being fulfilled.

Why are we here? We were created to glorify God, to enjoy Him, and to live in relationship with Him (Isaiah 43:7). But sin broke that relationship. The law was given to expose sin (Romans 3:20), and the prophets pointed to a coming Savior. In the fullness of time, Jesus came, lived a sinless life, died for our sins, and rose again, making a way for us to be forgiven, adopted, and reconciled to God (2 Corinthians 5:18–21).

Where are we going? Those who repent and put their faith in Jesus Christ are saved, not just from judgment, but to a new life. The end of the Bible, in Revelation, shows us the final outcome: Christ returns, sin and death are judged, and God dwells with His redeemed people forever in a new heaven and new earth (Revelation 21:1–4). The future for the believer is eternal life in the presence of God, free from sin, sorrow, and death.

The big picture is this: Creation, Fall, Redemption, and Restoration, all centered on the person and work of Jesus Christ. That’s the story of the Bible and the hope of all who belong to Him.

TO the trenches one and all
Procliam and remind all of the dire necessity to repent and beleive on CHRIST JESUS .
And remind all within a lotta messed up churches , HE IS NO MINSTIR of sin and will honor no mans sins .
HE came to set us free from that mess , to save us and to give us NEW LIFE in HIM .

 

[bdavidc]

I might also ask your opinion of a statement made by the apostle Paul that I found intriguing…..
In his opening statements to the Corinthian congregation he said….

“To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours“ (1 Cor 1:2 ESV)
Paul seems to be referring to the “saints” (or holy ones) as separate to others who also call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ….”BOTH THEIR LORD AND OURS”.

Can there be more than one group that are saved?…..are the “saints” saved in a different way to those who also serve the Lord Jesus, but in a different capacity?

Revelation also seems to allude to these two groups….
Rev 7: 4, 9-10, 13-14…

”And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel”. . . .

Rev 14:1-4 also speaks about this numbered group….

”Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. . . . .and they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb”. (ESV)

The Jews knew what “firstfruits” are…but do we?

Rev 7 continues….
“After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”. . . . .Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?” I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.“ (ESV)

If the 144,000 are standing on “Mt Zion”, is this a geographical location on earth?….. or is it the “heavenly Jerusalem” on a heavenly “Mt Zion” where the “new Jerusalem” is located, as pictured in Heb 12:22….

Now, if there are two groups who are saved, but only one group of 144,000 are called “saints”……who then are the “great multitude” seen attributing salvation to God and the Lamb?

These are seen to “come out of the great tribulation” which occurs on earth. What is their identity and to what destiny are they to saved to?

Please take you time as I would like to hear your view of these things…..

I appreciate your interest in digging deep into these topics, but these questions really have nothing to do with the original point of my post. If you're genuinely looking for discussion on the 144,000, the great multitude, or distinctions between groups in Revelation, I’m sure you’ll get plenty of engagement by starting your own thread—especially since you’ve posted nearly 7,000 times here and clearly know how the board works.

I’m not here to be interviewed for sport, so if there’s a reason behind this long list of questions or if you’re trying to make a particular point, feel free to explain that. Otherwise, I’d prefer to stay on topic. If there’s something specific about my original post you’d like to address, I’m open to dialogue.

 

[amigo de christo]

Nice post.

TO the trenches my friend . the hour is late . To the LORD be all glory with much praises and thanksgivings .

 

[bdavidc]

Absolute truth there….but since we encounter so many who sincerely think that what they believe is absolute truth….where do you draw the line?

I draw the line when false teachers try to deceive others and contaminate my threads with false doctrine.

Are you a Jehovah’s Witness? If so, that explains the direction of your questions. Let me be clear, JW doctrine is false, and it denies the true identity of Jesus Christ as fully God, which directly contradicts Scripture (John 1:1, Colossians 2:9). If you're here to spread Watchtower theology and deceive people, don’t litter my thread with that nonsense. I won’t tolerate false teaching being pushed under the guise of innocent questions. If you want to promote JW doctrine, do it somewhere else, not on my posts.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I appreciate your interest in digging deep into these topics, but these questions really have nothing to do with the original point of my post.

I’m sorry if my questions appear to be off topic, but it seems to me that if “Jesus is Talking to“ US…..we should know who “us” is, and how his words apply to the ones he was speaking to.

If you're genuinely looking for discussion on the 144,000, the great multitude, or distinctions between groups in Revelation, I’m sure you’ll get plenty of engagement by starting your own thread—especially since you’ve posted nearly 7,000 times here and clearly know how the board works.

I am a Bible student who likes to explore details often missed by others who are also students of the Bible.
By bringing out these points, clarity is obtained. Shouldn’t we want clarity on what are really the basic points? If we miss the importance of the basics, in what direction will truth go?

I’m not here to be interviewed for sport, so if there’s a reason behind this long list of questions or if you’re trying to make a particular point, feel free to explain that. Otherwise, I’d prefer to stay on topic. If there’s something specific about my original post you’d like to address, I’m open to dialogue.

Again, I’m sorry if this has raised some defensiveness on your part….it was not intentional and, as we have many points of agreement, I didn’t think you would object to exploring things a little deeper….especially on a basic level such as whom Jesus was addressing, and where his words applied in reality.

I draw the line when false teachers try to deceive others and contaminate my threads with false doctrine.

Are you a Jehovah’s Witness? If so, that explains the direction of your questions. Let me be clear, JW doctrine is false, and it denies the true identity of Jesus Christ as fully God, which directly contradicts Scripture (John 1:1, Colossians 2:9). If you're here to spread Watchtower theology and deceive people, don’t litter my thread with that nonsense. I won’t tolerate false teaching being pushed under the guise of innocent questions. If you want to promote JW doctrine, do it somewhere else, not on my posts.

Since I have not mentioned anything that does not pertain to your OP in some way…this response allows me to see that you are not open to any but your own truth.…triggered by questions that made you question my motives. Were any of those questions irrelevant?…or just uncomfortable?

I did not mention the trinity issue, nor was I “littering your thread” with anything but questions that you do not appear to want to answer….and I felt they were related to your OP.

That’s OK….nuff said. We now know why you are here….to push your own theology….just like everyone else who posts on these boards.
You’re on a public forum and we don’t get to dictate who posts on our threads. If you are threatened by my questions, then “ignore” me.…or answer them for the benefit of other readers. (1 Pet 3:15)

Attack is not defense.

 

[bdavidc]

Since I have not mentioned anything that does not pertain to your OP in some way…this response allows me to see that you are not open to any but your own truth.…triggered by questions that made you question my motives. Were any of those questions irrelevant?…or just uncomfortable?

I did not mention the trinity issue, nor was I “littering your thread” with anything but questions that you do not appear to want to answer….and I felt they were related to your OP.

That’s OK….nuff said. We now know why you are here….to push your own theology….just like everyone else who posts on these boards.
You’re on a public forum and we don’t get to dictate who posts on our threads. If you are threatened by my questions, then “ignore” me.…or answer them for the benefit of other readers. (1 Pet 3:15)

Attack is not defense.

I don’t need a false teacher from a cult that denies the deity of Jesus Christ and rewrites the Bible to fit their doctrine to tell me how I should act or respond. You're right, I’m absolutely not open to anything that contradicts the Word of God, because I stand on the truth of Scripture alone (Psalm 119:160). You may ask questions, but when your intent is to subtly sow deception, which is what Satan does, under the guise of curiosity, that’s not genuine dialogue, it’s spiritual manipulation. The Bible commands us to “earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints” (Jude 1:3), and part of that is guarding against false teachers (2 Peter 2:1). I’m not “triggered,” I’m being obedient. Scripture tells us to reject heretics after a first and second warning (Titus 3:10), and to expose the unfruitful works of darkness, not entertain them (Ephesians 5:11). This isn’t about my “own truth”, this is about God’s truth. If your beliefs don't line up with the Bible, then no, they won't be welcomed with me or on my threads.

Yes, this is a public forum, and that means I also have the right and responsibility to call out false doctrine when I see it, especially when it misleads others. I’m not threatened by your questions; I’m exposing the spirit behind them. You’re misusing 1 Peter 3:15, which tells believers to "be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear," but that doesn’t mean tolerating or entertaining doctrines that contradict the gospel. Scripture also says to “contend for the faith” (Jude 1:3) and to “have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them” (Ephesians 5:11). When someone comes with a false gospel, like denying Christ's divinity or preaching a works-based salvation, they’re not just asking questions; they’re spreading deception. That’s why Paul warned, “If any man preach any other gospel… let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:8–9). So I will continue to stand on Scripture, not entertain error, and warn others boldly, because truth matters.

Let me ask you plainly, what makes you think it’s acceptable to harass me or anyone else on this message board who is teaching from the actual Word of God, not a version that’s been rewritten to fit man-made doctrine? Do you really believe it's right to push your altered teachings onto others while accusing those who stand on the unchanging truth of Scripture of being closed-minded? The real issue here isn’t that I won’t entertain your questions, it’s that your foundation isn’t built on the Word of God as it was given. Proverbs 30:5–6 says, “Every word of God is pure… Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.” If your beliefs come from a Bible that’s been edited to strip away the deity of Christ and the full gospel message, then yes, I’m going to speak up. Not to argue for argument’s sake, but because souls are on the line. So again, why do you feel entitled to push false doctrine while calling biblical correction an “attack”?

 

[bdavidc]

I’m sorry if my questions appear to be off topic

You did not answer my question to you: Are you a Jehovah’s Witness?

 

[Gottservant]

You are close to understanding, that Jesus didn't not speak of His own Accord.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I don’t need a false teacher from a cult that denies the deity of Jesus Christ and rewrites the Bible to fit their doctrine to tell me how I should act or respond.

Me either….but the deity of Christ was never in the Bible in the first place….Jesus was Jewish, he was “the son of God”, so he never mentioned it, because it would have been blasphemy to put another “god” in place of the Father. (Deut 20:3) No Jew expected the Messiah to be God incarnate.…and Jesus never said it.

You may ask questions, but when your intent is to subtly sow deception, which is what Satan does, under the guise of curiosity, that’s not genuine dialogue, it’s spiritual manipulation.

I “may ask questions”? Well I did, and you had every opportunity to answer them civilly and with a purpose to instruct others here…..but you pulled back because you knew you couldn’t answer them in a convincing way because the Scriptures do not back you up.

I don’t believe you have any understanding as to what satan had already done to ”the church” long before the foundation builders of Christendom had laid the bricks……the chief cornerstone was missing, turned into a god and worshipped, in spite of the fact that he never once said he was God, and never asked to be worshipped.

So what if it’s you who is deceived and satan is working through you? Impossible? You’d think so. Whose world are we living in?….and whose agenda is promoted by the religious leaders of this world? (1 John 5:19)
Same players as when Jesus walked the earth. Do the deceived know that they are? Did the Jews know that they were executing their own Messiah? Who told them to expect someone else….who to this day has never shown up?
Those who cried “heretic” in the first century, were themselves the heretics. Is history repeating?

This isn’t about my “own truth”, this is about God’s truth. If your beliefs don't line up with the Bible, then no, they won't be welcomed with me or on my threads.

If your beliefs don’t line up with the Scriptures then I too reserve the right to call you out….everyone here on these boards, believes that their faith is the true one, and everyone who disagrees with them must be wrong. Why do you think God permits that? Does he not have the ability to show people clearly what is the truth? Why doesn’t he?

Yes, this is a public forum, and that means I also have the right and responsibility to call out false doctrine when I see it, especially when it misleads others.

Me too. That works both ways. Just because you believe you are right…doesn’t mean you are. Let Jesus make the choice.

I’m not threatened by your questions; I’m exposing the spirit behind them.

The ”spirit behind them” is the same agenda as you have….to get to the truth by clearing away all the rubbish……the problem is…what is the “rubbish”? Is it like Easter, dressed up to look like something it isn’t?

Jesus said he would appoint a “faithful slave” in the days before his return, to “feed” his household their “food at the proper time”….(Matt 24:45) but Jesus also asked “who really is” this slave, since he apparently knew that satan would have counterfeits planted all over the place to deceive people and to lead them down the wrong path. How can anyone identify that slave? Not by their words but by their actions. Talk is cheap.
Actions speak louder than words. Who are “doing the will of the Father”? (Matt 7:21-23)

So I will continue to stand on Scripture, not entertain error, and warn others boldly, because truth matters.

Me too.

Let me ask you plainly, what makes you think it’s acceptable to harass me or anyone else on this message board who is teaching from the actual Word of God, not a version that’s been rewritten to fit man-made doctrine?

You think my responses to you are “harassment”?
In doing exactly what you are doing, is what you are posting to me then, “harassment” too?
You're so busy being right, that you are forgetting how to be a Christian.

If my questions to you appear to be harassing or threatening, it is because you have no scriptural answers to them. The questions were to probe a bit deeper into what you said….but you apparently felt threatened by them. So deflecting into a diatribe against someone you don’t even know, tells us something about the newbie straight away.
Does a true Christian turn tale and run, hurling accusations instead of defending their faith?

What is “the actual word of God”? Is the version you use, the “actual word of God”? How do you know?

Do you really believe it's right to push your altered teachings onto others while accusing those who stand on the unchanging truth of Scripture of being closed-minded?

What if it’s your teachings, that are the product of an apostate church that formulated false doctrines so long ago that no one today thinks to question them? You think satan didn't get busy after Jesus and the apostles left the earthly scene?
Didn’t Jesus say that the devil would sow the “weeds” of counterfeit “Christianity” “while men were sleeping”? How soon after the apostolic period did the the church ‘go to sleep’ spiritually speaking? No time at all really….

You seem to have no idea where your own beliefs originated….Jesus does.….and that is why the majority are on the wrong road, and “few” enter the narrow gate to travel the difficult path to life. (Matt 7:13-14) Who makes it difficult? Who made it difficult in Jesus’ day? It was those who claimed to worship the same God. (John 15:18-21) The devil has no new tricks. Confusion reigns…divide and conquer, works.

If your beliefs come from a Bible that’s been edited to strip away the deity of Christ and the full gospel message, then yes, I’m going to speak up.

But….OTOH….if the Scripture you accept was translated with trinitarian bias, centuries ago, then what you are reading is not really the ”full gospel message” as it was written in the first place….it is someone’s translation of God’s word…..so how do you know how accurate it is?

Original language word studies are necessary to ascertain what is truth and what is a bill of goods sold by God’s adversary.
Counterfeit “Christianity” comes in so many forms….God will “draw” the sheep to his truth, and leave the rest to their own devices….(John 644; 65; 2 Thess 2:9-12)

What we choose to believe, puts us in only one of two categories….we are attracted by what appeals to our heart….God reads hearts, not just minds. There are only “sheep and goats”……”wheat and weeds”….God doesn’t see ‘denominations’….because there is only one truth, which must be shared by all. (1 Cor 1:10) Unity will identify the sheep, and the love they have among themselves. (John 13:34-35) And they will be a hated minority…..(John 15:18-21)…hated by those who do not know the one who sent Jesus. (John 17:3)

Not to argue for argument’s sake, but because souls are on the line. So again, why do you feel entitled to push false doctrine while calling biblical correction an “attack”?

Can I ask you the same question?..…you see, there is not much room for anyone to change lanes here…..except those who are not blinded by the system set up by the devil to do exactly that. (2 Cor 4:3-4)….the trap is baited with what is dear to our hearts, but what if we’ve been persuaded to love what is not true?…and we are trying to defend what is really indefensible?

God has appointed a judge and he knows who his sheep are….in the meantime, we are speaking on a public forum and many readers here have not made up their minds as to who is speaking the truth, so our exchanges can be either a learning curve for them, or a slanging match….which do you think they would prefer?
A challenge is not an excuse to be uncivil. We can debate without the name calling and just show by the Scriptures the reason why we hold to the beliefs we are promoting….can’t we?

 

[bdavidc]

Me either….but the deity of Christ was never in the Bible in the first place

You did not answer my question to you: Are you a Jehovah’s Witness?

The deity of Christ is in the Bible, but not in the version you use, which has been deliberately altered by men to fit their false doctrine. Your translation removes or distorts key verses that clearly declare who Jesus is (John 1:1, Colossians 2:9, Titus 2:13, among many others). So no, the problem isn't with the Bible, it’s with your version of it.

You can stop directing your rants at me because I know you're a false teacher. I don’t read them anymore because it’s clear you're not here to honestly search the Scriptures, you’re here to argue. You've already hardened your heart to the truth. You've made your decision, and no amount of biblical evidence will sway you because your mind is closed and your loyalty is to a religious system, not to God's Word.

You are a false teacher, and I won’t remain silent while you try to spread deception. I will answer to the one true God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, for what I teach and how I respond to error. And so will you.

 

[bdavidc]

You are close to understanding, that Jesus didn't not speak of His own Accord.

What you're saying sounds like the beginning of a common misunderstanding that people use to deny the full deity of Jesus Christ. But the Bible is clear: while Jesus did not speak on His own accord in the sense of acting independently from the Father, that does not mean He is less than God. In John 12:49, Jesus says, “For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.” This doesn’t mean He’s not God, it means He is in perfect unity with the Father, always doing and speaking what is in complete harmony with the will of God. John 10:30 makes it clear: “I and my Father are one.”

Jesus came to reveal the Father (John 1:18), and in doing so, He submitted Himself as a servant (Philippians 2:6-7), not because He is inferior, but because He came to fulfill the Father's redemptive plan. To say that Jesus didn’t speak on His own authority and then twist that to mean He isn’t divine is to completely misrepresent what Scripture teaches. The Bible reveals Jesus as the Word who was with God and was God (John 1:1). Let’s be careful not to take one verse out of context to try and undo what the whole of Scripture clearly declares about Jesus Christ.