No authority!
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BreadOfLife
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And once again - Christ's Church is NOT defined by the sins of those individuals within - but by the fact that it is the Body of Christ and Christ Himself is the Head (Col. 1:18).
TheChurch is MORE than a Pope or some Bishops.
If the Pope ran the Mafia - that wouldn't diminish Christ's Church ONE iota. If wqould diminish that Pope.
was Joseph pharaoh in Egypt? no!
But he was the representative to f the pharaoh and administered the kingdom in his place
Teaching authority of the Apostles and their successors founded in the one true church by Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ is the head of the church, (eph 5:23) the body of Christ,
(col 1:18) the new and eternal covenant, (pre-figured Jer 31:31) (Heb 8:8) new covenant replaces the Mosaic covenant, (Heb 8:13) Christ replaces David as king, (Lk 1:32-33) Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and men, (1 Tim 2:5 & Heb 12:24) but a mediator remains on earth mediating between God and His people, but Christ ascended to heaven, (acts 1) before He did He founded His church, on Peter, and the apostles, and their successors!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
We must be taught by Peter, the apostles, and their successors! Lk 10:16 Matt 28:19 Jn 21:17
Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.
Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Successors of Moses!
Matt 23 why does Jesus say to obey the successors of Moses?
The successors of Moses sit in the chair of Moses having the authority of the keys and the power to bind and loose Matt 23 and Jesus commanded them to be obeyed! Then the kingdom was taken from them matt 21:43 and given to Peter, Matt 16:18 the apostles, Matt 18:18 and their successors with the authority of the keys and the power to bind and lose!
Jesus said to obey the authority of the successors of Moses mt 23 authority of the keys and power to bind and loose and this power and authority was taken from them matt and given by Christ to Peter, the apostles and their successors, mt 16:18 18:18 this same authority and power must be obeyed!
mt 28:18-20 all authority is given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors requiring obedience, rom 1:5 obedience to the faith!
And Jesus say to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: behold I am with you even until the end of the world!!!
So the apostles have to remain until the end! Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and Priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Reign with kingdom authority (keys) power (bind loose) matt 16:18
The successors of Peter and the apostles have a valid jurisdictional authority (keys) and power (bind and loose) by Jesus Christ!
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
BreadOfLife
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WRONG.
"It is permissible, on Greek grammatical and linguistic grounds, to paraphrase kecharitomene as 'completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace'." (Blass and DeBrunner, Greek Grammar of the New Testament)
There is no question of a "secondary" reality, one that would have touched her only ulteriorly. Rather, it pertains to the very identity of Mary. Moreover, the appellation κεχαριτωμένη, in all of Scripture, is reserved to Mary, as if it were her special mark.
In fact, some have tried to see in the parallel with Gideon, a demonstration that the κεχαριτωμένη would refer only to a grace that is to come, one to follow immediately. For Gideon is called "valiant warrior" at a time when he is not yet such; therefore κεχαριτωμένη would signify a grace that is not present before the angel's greeting. However, as contrasted with what concerns Gideon, the angel does not apply to Mary a noun bracketed with an adjective, but a perfect participle, a verbal form that refers to a past that is prolonged in the present. Therefore, it is before the angel's greeting, before the Incarnation, that Mary is κεχαριτωμένη.
(Kecharitomene (Lk. 1:28) in the Light of Gen. 18:16-33: A Matter of Quantity François Rossier University of Dayton)
Kecharitōmĕnē is the perfect passive participle of charitŏō. It denotes one who has been and still is the object of divine benevolence, one who has been favored and continues to be favored by God, one who has been granted supernatural grace and remains in this state.[1] Verbs ending in ŏō, such as haimatŏō (turn into blood), thaumatŏō (fill with wonder), spodŏōmai (burn to ashes) frequently express the full intensity of the action. Kecharitomene denotes continuance of a completed action. (H. W. Smyth, Greek Grammar [Harvard University Press, 1968], p. 108-109, sec 1852:b.)
Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange
The Greek word κεχαριτωμένη (kecharitōmenē) is the word of contention here as regards translation differences. And it is has much to do with the theology of the translator, but only to a degree—no translations of it have been strictly wrong or right since only dynamic translations (“full of..,” “highly..” etc.) are really possible with such a grammatically rich word. That is, it is difficult to render a single Greek word so rich in meaning (grammatically) into an equivalent word in English: in fact, that is arguably impossible (without being a very ugly translation).
To make matters worse, κεχαριτωμένη is titular, meaning it is actually used as a title, or 'name' for Mary: Gabriel doesn't say, 'Hail, Mary! You are highly favored/full of grace,' He gives Mary a title of sorts: “Hail, κεχαριτωμένη!”
This title is reserved for Mary ALONE.
amigo de christo
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Its not the mention of mary that is idolatry . For all generations shall call her blessed .
Its the mention of PRAYING to her that is idolatry . pray to GOD in JESUS name is all we must do .
Hope that clears up the matter .
BreadOfLife
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Cherry-picking won't help your argument. I gave you no less that SIX Scripture passages that explain that we are BEING sanctified by God - we are BEING made holy. Our entire life is a journey of sanctification.
Scripture does NOT contradict itself, so you must take ALL Scripture in CONTEXT when interpreting it.
If you haven't learned that by now - there is NOTHING I can do to help you.
That is a laughable statement.
EVERY reputable encyclopedia on the planet lists is documented resources when making historical claims.
You are extremely gullible - it's NO WONDER you're so confused. You actually believe that ANYBODY can make ANY statement about ANYTHING - and it should be taken as "fact".
That's an idiotic vew of scholarship.
BreadOfLife
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It it "idolatry" when you pray to your fellow Christians here on earth to pray for you?
the communion of the saints teaches otherwise rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
The saints in union with Christ the only mediator are in communion with and pray for each other
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Mary is this throne! Full of grace Lk 1:28
Mary is this throne! Full of grace Lk 1:28
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
I dont pray TO them . We can pray FOR one another , just not TO one another .
WE can pray to GOD in JESUS name . But we dont pray TO any other . And before you use the ol line
well prayer is simply asking , yeah right . Do you go to the store and kneel down and
pray to the clerk to carry your groceries , or do ya just ask him .
An example . If i am at home i dont kneel down and pray to the clerk and say HEY when i get to your store
will you carry out my groceries . NO , when i get there i just ask him. We dont pray to any other THAN GOD and in JESUS NAME .
The sun and the moon and the stars!
Types and figures:
The sun a type of Jesus the son of justice, who by His passion and cross merits eternal light and life!
The moon a type of Mary!
The stars a type of the saints!
As the stars and moon get light from the sun and not of themselves so they reflect the glory of the eternal son of God!
But as the moon was s much brighter than the stars so is Mary the greatest and most highly exalted among the saints! And is the queen of the angels and saints!
Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great sign in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Genesis
The greater light to govern the day!
Those who live in the state of grace, the kingdom of justice! Jesus rules the kingdom of justice!
The lesser light to govern the night, those who live in sin, the refuge of sinners, mother of divine grace and mercy! Mary rules the kingdom of mercy!
Just as Esther found favor with the king and received half the kingdom, so does Mary! Lk 1:30
1 Kings 2:19
Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her, and sat down on his throne, and caused a seat to be set for the king's mother; and she sat on his right hand.
Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her, and sat down on his throne, and caused a seat to be set for the king's mother; and she sat on his right hand.
Ferris Bueller
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All grace is merited by Christ by his passion and death Mary is the mother of divine grace
Found the favor of our salvation Lk 1:30
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Like I say, this is why we have no interest in Catholicism. We're just not on the same page. We're not even in the same book. That's why there's this giant divide between Catholics and the rest of us. It's there for a reason. We want nothing to do with your religion. It's weird. Any time I even begin to talk about it, it conjures up thoughts of demonic activity and strongholds. I immediately sense that when Catholic doctrines are discussed. I'm not being mean or insulting. This is how I truly feel about it. I don't sense truth in it at all. It repels me, spiritually. I'm just being honest. But I know you will probably be offended and get upset and possibly attack me, but if you do that you will only be proving all the more to me that my thoughts and feelings about it are correct.
the devide of Christ and Belial!
Of light and darkness!
Of truth and error!
Of hope and despair!
The one true church, the spouse and bride and imposter sects of the great whore!
You are choosing I guess the later!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
no! Both are kingdoms
Both have kings
Both have prime ministers who administers the kingdom in place of the king! Read Isa 22
Isa 22 father
Christ is the head of the church!
Peter is appointed by Christ as the head of the church on earth!
Supreme pastor and teacher of the faithful!
Matt 10:2
First apostle Peter:
Matt 17:27
Jesus and Peter are one:
Jesus even works a miracle to make this point. 27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.
Mt 16:18 Peter received the keys of the kingdom: (jurisdictional authority of the universal church) and the power to bind and loose:
Lk 22:32
Peter commanded to confirm his breathren:
Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter:
Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:
Matt 10:2
Peter is the prince of the apostles, head of the universal church on earth!
Jn 20:21-23
Peter and the apostles receive the Holy Spirit and the power to forgive sins:
Acts 1:15 1:17 1:26
Peter declares Judas office of apostle valid and vacant and chooses a successor:
Acts 2:14
Peter preaches the first sermon on Pentecost:
Acts 2:38
Peter requires baptism as the outward sign and initiation into the new covenant!
Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
Acts 5 authority of the apostles verified by them being stricken dead by God verifying Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 whatsoever you bind on earth is bound in heaven and the apostles have the light of the Holy Spirit!
1 Tim 1 Paul is Timothy’s spiritual father.
1 Jn 2:1 little children are adult Christians, John is their spiritual father.
Apostles have Care for our souls
(Acts 20:28 Jn 21:17 Heb 13:17)
The papacy founded by Christ is based on Matt 16:18 and Isa 22:21-22
Matt 16:18-19
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Isa 22:21-22
21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
———-
Behold I am with you (the successors or the apostles until the end of the age, so the successors must remain until the end of the age) matt 28:19
(None of the so called reformers were apostles) (no man has authority to start a church)
—————————
Teaching authority of the Apostles and their successors founded in the one true church by Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ is the head of the church, (eph 5:23) the body of Christ,
(col 1:18) the new and eternal covenant, (pre-figured Jer 31:31) (Heb 8:8) new covenant replaces the Mosaic covenant, (Heb 8:13) Christ replaces David as king, (Lk 1:32-33) Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and men, (1 Tim 2:5 & Heb 12:24) but a mediator remains on earth mediating between God and His people, but Christ ascended to heaven, (acts 1) before He did He founded His church, on Peter, and the apostles, and their successors!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
We must be taught by Peter, the apostles, and their successors! Lk 10:16 Matt 28:19 Jn 21:17
Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.
Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
————————-
The obedience of faith!
Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name.
Taught the one true faith revealed by Christ to His apostles! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3
We are not commanded to read and make doctrine for ourselves but obey those who God puts in authority.
——————————-
Successors of Moses!
Matt 23 why does Jesus say to obey the successors of Moses?
The successors of Moses sit in the chair of Moses having the authority of the keys and the power to bind and loose Matt 23 and Jesus commanded them to be obeyed! Then the kingdom was taken from them matt 21:43 and given to Peter, Matt 16:18 the apostles, Matt 18:18 and their successors with the authority of the keys and the power to bind and lose!
Jesus said to obey the authority of the successors of Moses mt 23 authority of the keys and power to bind and loose and this power and authority was taken from them matt and given by Christ to Peter, the apostles and their successors, mt 16:18 18:18 this same authority and power must be obeyed!
mt 28:18-20 all authority is given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors requiring obedience, rom 1:5 obedience to the faith!
And Jesus say to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: behold I am with you even until the end of the world!!!
So the apostles have to remain until the end! Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and Priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Reign with kingdom authority (keys) power (bind loose) matt 16:18
The successors of Peter and the apostles have a valid jurisdictional authority (keys) and power (bind and loose) by Jesus Christ!
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
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