Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
See, here you go again
If I stop abiding I stop PRODUCING FRUIT.
But I am still attached to the vine..
Stop attacking me because my faith is in God. not myself..
NEWSFLASH: Abraham was not a Jew. Neither was Isaac. Neither was Jacob.
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If I stop abiding I stop PRODUCING FRUIT.
But I am still attached to the vine..
Stop attacking me because my faith is in God. not myself..
Tell us why in your opinion Jesus qualified His statement regarding abiding in Him with the statement about the branch not abiding in Him.
Did Jesus just like adding stuff?
Did Jesus just like adding stuff?
Tell us why in your opinion Jesus qualified His statement regarding abiding in Him with the statement about the branch not abiding in Him.
Did Jesus just like adding stuff?
Deflecting from the question doesn't answer it.Did Jesus just like adding stuff?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
This is about bearing fruit not about saving myself or keeping myself saved, It is about working, doing things, apart from Jesus you can do nothing.. its about DOING WORK!
Why would you keep asking the same question expecting to get a different answer?
He did not add anything, He never told us to earn salvation by abiding in him.
Romans 7
4 So, my brothers, you also have become dead to the law by the body of Christ so that you should be married to Another, even to Him raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit to God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the passions of sin worked in our members through the law to bring forth fruit to death.
6 But now we having been set free from the Law, having died to that in which we were held, so that we serve in newness of spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Let it not be said! But I did not know sin except through the law. For also I did not know lust except the law said, You shall not lust.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, worked in me all kinds of lust. For apart from law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once. But when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was to life, was found to be death to me.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do, I know not. For what I desire, that I do not do; but what I hate, that I do.
16 If then I do that which I do not desire, I consent to the law that it is good.
17 But now it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwells no good thing. For to will is present with me, but how to perform that which is good I do not find.
4 So, my brothers, you also have become dead to the law by the body of Christ so that you should be married to Another, even to Him raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit to God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the passions of sin worked in our members through the law to bring forth fruit to death.
6 But now we having been set free from the Law, having died to that in which we were held, so that we serve in newness of spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Let it not be said! But I did not know sin except through the law. For also I did not know lust except the law said, You shall not lust.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, worked in me all kinds of lust. For apart from law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once. But when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was to life, was found to be death to me.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do, I know not. For what I desire, that I do not do; but what I hate, that I do.
16 If then I do that which I do not desire, I consent to the law that it is good.
17 But now it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwells no good thing. For to will is present with me, but how to perform that which is good I do not find.
Huh? Where did Paul mention Abraham in Romans 7?
Because you have not answered the question at all.
No one said He did (certainly not me). You're deflecting from the question again.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Do you understand what Paul said here??
Where did paul mention he was walking to Damascus in romans 7?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Actually I did
I put Jesus in context. to explain what he meant
Without me YOU CAN DO NOTHING.
That is what he meant,
He was talking about bearing fruit (the context of the whole passage) that is what he meant.
If your looking for me to say Jesus meant if we do not produce fruit we will lose salvation. You will never hear me say this, because Jesus is not sayign this ..
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
No, But my comment about paul was from the time he walked to damascus until the time he spoke of wanting to do good. but could not do good.
if Paul could not make it, why would I think I could
So what did Jesus mean when He COMPARED IT straight afterwards with what happens to the one who DOES NOT abide in Him?
You have not answered the question.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
sorry my friend
If you CAN draw back, you have to continue under your own power.
drawing away takes no work, correct. You draw back by STOPPING WORK.
Plus like Paul said in Romans 4. If Abraham was found by works he has something to boast about. but not before God.
You want to boast in your ability to abide and your power to not fall away to keep yourself saved. feel free.
Consider the full council of God? Is that all you have?
How does anyone draw back? They DID NOT HAVE FAITH TO BEGIN WITH.
I am saddened you do not understand what true faith is, even more. you do not understand that GOD CAN AND does KEEP HIS PEOPLE.
Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.
Become part of us..
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Maybe read vs 1 - 4. that is the context of the passage. What does he do to get people to bear fruit?
He lifts them up and he prunes them..
do you know anything about agriculture and raising fruits of the vine?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
John 15:
15 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He Lifts up; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.
9 “As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
11 “These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. 12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. 14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. 15 No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you. 17 These things I command you, that you love one another.
How can people rip one small verse about a whole passage about producing fruit. being given the resources to bear fruit. and to keep Gods joy in us. as God telling us we can lose salvation if we do not do something? then get mad when we can not agree with them?
15 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He Lifts up; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.
9 “As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
11 “These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. 12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. 14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. 15 No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you. 17 These things I command you, that you love one another.
How can people rip one small verse about a whole passage about producing fruit. being given the resources to bear fruit. and to keep Gods joy in us. as God telling us we can lose salvation if we do not do something? then get mad when we can not agree with them?
You are deflecting again.
Was Jesus talking about bearing fruit when He said the branch that does not abide in Him is cast out and withered, or was He talking about abiding?
Is the key word that causes the fruit in verse 5 is "abide". Is it not?
What is "does not abide"? How does that compare to "abide"?
What, in your opinion, did Jesus mean by the comparison between "abide" and "does not abide"?
Verse 4: Unless it abides in the vine, the branch cannot bear fruit. Neither can you unless you abide in Me.
Verse 6: If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered. And they gather and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
What, in your opinion, did Jesus say happens to the one who does not abide in Him?
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
We weren't Jesus' enemy. How silly.
God wrote the names of all who would come to him,through Jesus, in the Lambs Book of Life before the foundation,creation,of the world.
Hope all you like. Jesus=God, tells us, no one comes to him unless he calls them. Those named in his book.
The words of God must harmonize with the full narrative of God and Salvation. All of it.
Mans influence and dabbling with Scripture is a matter of historic record. Man's politics also played a part in what was disseminated among the population centuries after Christ.
Jesus,God,is the same yesterday,today,and forever. He does not change.
Love your enemy?
OK. Do you love Satan?
God said,thou shalt not steal.
It is written in the New Testament we are not to resist an evil person.Gice a thief more than what they seek initially.
The scriptures must harmonize.
That's why Jesus said,
Verse 4: Unless it abides in the vine, the branch cannot bear fruit. Neither can you unless you abide in Me.
Verse 6: If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered. And they gather and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
What, in your opinion, did Jesus say will happen to the one who does not abide in Him?
So why did you quote a verse in a passage where Paul was comparing the law with the inability for us to obey the law, and saying nothing about his experience on the road to Damascus?
And then claim that Paul was not talking about the law in Romans 7?
What pray tell did Jesus do to the fruitless fig tree when he was hungry ?
What had happened to the barren fig tree when Jesus came back by ?
In the answers, by the Spirit of God, I rest my case!
Abide= bearing and being in continuing sustenance with/ of the vine & vintyer.
Withdrawing, fruitless, dead = withered & accursed.
Matthew 21:19
“And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.”
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