new version of OSAS?

[Ferris Bueller]

John 5:22..... the verse I have NEVER seen ANYBODY try to debate.....I bring it up....it completely destroys NOSAS , so rather than debate it, those confused and poorly taught “ Believers” just kinda “ sweep it under the rug” .....that’s all they “ can” do......

I think you mean John 5:24, right? And I already stripped it of it's erroneous Osas interpretation. The promise if for believing people, not people who never believed, or who have stopped believing.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It was God that invented the OSAS “ box”...... if He steps out of it it would show that God was a Promise Breaker......and we all know that is impossible.... right ?

The promise is for believing people. As long as you are believing, you have the promises of God. And nobody can take them away from you. But you must be believing. That is the condition of the promise. That is the New Covenant—a deal based on faith, not works.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Yes, I'm sure you are, lol.

Thank you for the light hearted attitude, bro. How's the foot doing?

You are welcome.....All you are seeing here lately is “ the Real Me”......I don't always have to have my “ War Bonnet” on.....Lol....
But as God’s “ Pit- Bull” in the Battle Of Leaven -Spreading and Accursed,False Gospels.....I always keep that Bonnet within reach..LOL..

The foot is getting better...I can walk on a crutch if I have one of those Special Boots on , but unfortunately I think that I am many weeks away from where I can go back and humiliate myself on the local Golf Course.....

I think we can all agree that the motorcycle wreck that forces me to abandon all the time I used to spend on the golf course and riding the Harley and NOW forces me to spend all that extra time in here is all part of God’s Great Plan—- He temporarily “ hobbled” me so I could devote more time in here to getting my misguided foes straightened out....how am I doing so far? Lol.......

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I think you mean John 5:24, right? And I already stripped it of it's erroneous Osas interpretation. The promise if for believing people, not people who never believed, or who have stopped believing.

Oops....sorry about that wrong verse....I gotta cut these pain pills in half.....I forgot about your attempt to address the verse, so I apologize for that.....I believe you were the “ first” to argue against the obvious and failed.....at least you tried....

The Promise is that the very second that you Believe , the Promise is in effect no matter what happens down the line ....you are ALREADY a Possessor Of Eternal Life .....you have ALREADY passed from Death unto Life.....and on top of that, you can NEVER come under Condemnation.....” Already have” and “ Never” has got you covered fully—- there is no way to get out of it.....

( “522” is the highway I live near.....hence the confusion....lol )

 

[michaelvpardo]

Read Matthew 13.

I've read it at least a few dozen times and preached through it back when I lead small worship services in a few nursing homes as part of our Church ministry. My understanding is not the problem, or I wouldn't have been chosen for the works I must do in Him. (And for clarity, those works that I do in Him are not my works, but His for without Him, I can do nothing (good.)
38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. Matthew 13:38
Perhaps you should read Matthew 13 again, a few more times and ask Him to show you what the parables mean. I've heard error about some of these parables from biblical scholars and teachers that I genuinely respect and know are brothers in the Lord, but some misinterpretations are intentional because of the influence of free Masonry upon Christianity.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The promise is for believing people. As long as you are believing, you have the promises of God. And nobody can take them away from you. But you must be believing. That is the condition of the promise. That is the New Covenant—a deal based on faith, not works.

I disagree.....the Believer is covered the instant that he Believes —- He has ALREADY made the move from Death to life..... Nothing In the Future can remove him from “ the grip of our Father” ....he got a Promise from God that can’t be broken....he will “ Never come into Condemnation” .... Never means “ Never” , once he Believes.....

I am convinced that , like me, A Believer that loses his Faith will,get it back before he dies....If he does not? He’s still covered.....if he “ believed” for one Nano- Second he has qualified as one who ALREADY passed from Death to life......it’s just too bad if it does not “ fit well” .....it’s called “ Amazing Grace” for a reason and we don’t even understand the half Of it...

 

[Corlove13]

9As the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you. Remain in My love. 10If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and remain in His love. 11I have told you these things so that My joy may be in you and your joy may be complete.12This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.14You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not understand what his master is doing. But I have called you friends, because everything I have learned from My Father I have made known to you. 16You did not choose Me, but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will remain—so that whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you. 17This is My command to you: Love one another.

 

[michaelvpardo]

If I understand your point correctly, I did refute it. God made the first covenant with BOTH Israelites AND gentiles. Gentiles were allowed to attach themselves to the commonwealth of Israel and be in that covenant with God, too, just like the native Israelites. It was NOT just a covenant for Israelites ONLY.

Actually, while gentiles, "strangers", were granted to live in the land, under the customs and law of Moses, they didn't enter the covenant of Abraham nor the covenant of Moses, but were only accountable to the Law. The temple had an outer court, the court of the gentiles, where they could enter to pray and perhaps purchase offerings for the priests to sacrifice, but only Jews could pass further into the temple under penalty of death, and only the priests could enter the Holy place, with only the High Priest entering the most Holy place, only once a year, bearing the sins of the congregation, and only with the blood of sacrifice for the expiation of sin.

 

[Cooper]

I could fill Madison Square Garden with the things that I regret and feel remorse for ....I feel so bad about these things now that I am “ a New Creation” That I will go out of my way to not do them again....before I got Saved, I did not really give a hoot-in- Hell about the shameful and sinful things I did in my life...

All of this remorse did not GET me Saved, nor does it KEEP me Saved....I Rested in Paul’s Gospel Found In 1Cor15:1-4.....THAT is what got “ me” Saved —-Plus anybody else that ever got Saved....
So therefore , I must ask...what is your point?

My point is that you repented, and you turned to Christ. So, I have to ask, what is all the argument about?
.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You have to have a change of mind about sin or you will not 'do' what God says to do. You just won't. Repentance is a prerequisite, a state of mind, that you have to have in order to receive the gospel. That's not a works gospel. It's only a works gospel if you think changing your mind about sin and turning away from it as a result EARNS you salvation.

The only way one “ receives” the Gospel is to have God “ open your heart” to the reception of it, just like in the example of “ Lydia, the Seller Of Purple”.....God “ opened her heart” ....she simply believed that Jesus died for her sins and that He rose from the dead .....she Changed her mind, or in other words , she Repented from Unbelief in the Gospel to BELIEF in the Gospel.....That will get ANYBODY saved ......notice there was nothing mentioned that God “ opened her heart and made sure she Repented from all of her sins) .....it just ain’t in there....

“ Turning from sin” , you say, does not EARN Salvation , yet you say you can not GET Salvation without it.....isn’t that a tad Contradictory ? You DO think it is earned, in my humble opinion....Am I alone in seeing the built- in Contradiction ?

 

[Corlove13]

9As the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you. Remain in My love. 10If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and remain in His love. 11I have told you these things so that My joy may be in you and your joy may be complete.12This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.14You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not understand what his master is doing. But I have called you friends, because everything I have learned from My Father I have made known to you. 16You did not choose Me, but I chose you. And I appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will remain—so that whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you. 17This is My command to you: Love one another.

So this above is what many OSASers can't see
that what would Jesus do with a person that is a friend now....on earth of Jesus....surely wouldn't they go to heaven when they die....

So question to @Tong2020 When Abraham was Justified .....if we see it was to have a right relationship with God concerning things of the life he lived on earth...then why were we taught it was directly related to heaven when we die? Even we know that was part of it....But does it come before being a friend of Jesus Now on earth through obeying His teachings? THIS is what I mean...by skipping a phase......Osas misses this part...

They say we believe Jesus died and rose...therefore we are Justified and have heaven when we die......

But it filters the meaning of belief to mean the same in every context.....because St John 3:16....is it about regeneration, justification, or sanctification?

That's just a few things one should think about.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

It's a metaphor, Tong. Keep the metaphor in the boundaries that Paul has put it in. He has confined the metaphor to how a building is tested by fire, not by how it can stand, or not stand, if it is made of weak materials like straw. Hey, I've watched lots of Gilligan's Island reruns and they built some pretty tough huts out of straw, lol. But not ones that could withstand fire.

You actually watch Gillian’s Island? And you expect us to take you seriously in here? ( note to Ferris: some things are best left “ under your hat”..... do you understand, “ Little Buddy? Lol....)

 

[Corlove13]

Actually, while gentiles, "strangers", were granted to live in the land, under the customs and law of Moses, they didn't enter the covenant of Abraham nor the covenant of Moses, but were only accountable to the Law. The temple had an outer court, the court of the gentiles, where they could enter to pray and perhaps purchase offerings for the priests to sacrifice, but only Jews could pass further into the temple under penalty of death, and only the priests could enter the Holy place, with only the High Priest entering the most Holy place, only once a year, bearing the sins of the congregation, and only with the blood of sacrifice for the expiation of sin.

Romans 2

25Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26If a man who is not circumcised keeps the requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27The one who is physically uncircumcised yet keeps the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.28A man is not a Jew because he is one outwardly, nor is circumcision only outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew because he is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise does not come from men, but from God.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Please don’t act though I am the one having a short coming here. You could just gave a simple and direct answer to my question, were you free to please God before? A simple yes and no is clear. If no then no. If yes then yes. I am not asking if you can or you can not. But you went on answering that instead of my question. Well, I leave the people here to judge for themselves.

Moving on, do you affirm, that I am right to gather from your post that you are not free to please God before? A simple yes or no will be more than sufficient and clear. That is if you want to be clear.

Tong
R3554

When someone can't win an argument against the truth, they usually stop real argument and sink to personal attack. We can be drawn into this base kind of deception or just keep standing in the truth. The flesh tends to rise up when attacked, it's a carnal self defense mechanism, but His Spirit is stronger than our flesh and the Lord will preserve our testimony when we carry the witness within us, if for no other reason than His faithfulness to Himself. Don't fall for baiting. It harms an argument more than it benefits its source, and we aren't required to defend our faith, but rather to be ready to give a reason for the hope that is within us.
I've found no greater test of patience than argument with a brother confident in his error. But the church remains an exercise in abounding grace, an exercise in forgiveness, and a source of grief to His Spirit. The Lord has better things in mind.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

My point is that you repented, and you turned to Christ. So, I have to ask, what is all the argument about?
.

The argument is that I believe we are Saved by Turning “TO” God as a Lost Sinner
( turn to me and I will turn to you) and the other side says we are Saved by Turning “ FROM” sins. I maintain the latter is nowhere to be found in the KJV and I will give $ 1000 to anybody that can show me that I am mistaken.....

 

[Cooper]

The argument is that I believe we are Saved by Turning “TO” God as a Lost Sinner
( turn to me and I will turn to you) and the other side says we are Saved by Turning “ FROM” sins. I maintain the latter is nowhere to be found in the KJV and I will give $ 1000 to anybody that can show me thst I am mistaken.....

One is turning to Christ for salvation after recognising we are sinners in the sight of God. The other is salvation by works, whereby people abstain from sin. Catholics often tell me their priest says if they live a good life they will go to heaven. In reality, we need to turn to the Saviour of the world in contrition of heart (repentance) and seek His forgiveness, putting our trust in him, and HE will cleanse us from all sin, not by works lest any man should boast.
.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Romans 2

25Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26If a man who is not circumcised keeps the requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27The one who is physically uncircumcised yet keeps the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.28A man is not a Jew because he is one outwardly, nor is circumcision only outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew because he is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise does not come from men, but from God.

You do know that Paul was speaking to the church, right?
You do know that Paul was specifically addressing the idea that the law condemns humanity and confines all under sin, right?
You do know that the beginning of the passage, the context of the teaching, was a rebuke against those who judge others, yet practice the same (hypocrisy)?
You're only getting the bits you want to see and avoiding the big picture because you don't want to believe it. That's called a lot of things, but I'll just call it tunnel vision, because it makes you miss the big picture and because God can fix your "eyes", the eyes of your perception. Stick with it. It is impossible for the word of God to return to Him void. If you persist in the word, your faith will grow, but milk is milk and meat is meat. Find a ministry, discover your gifts and put them into practice. Use wisdom to see opportunity and do His works, the meat, the works of Christ in us. Of course, these things all assume that you've prayed the prayer of faith to receive His Spirit, because it is impossible to do His works without His Spirit. I'm confident that you will understand eventually, but it would be better now than before the Bema seat.

 

[Corlove13]

You do know that Paul was speaking to the church, right?
You do know that Paul was specifically addressing the idea that the law condemns humanity and confines all under sin, right?
You do know that the beginning of the passage, the context of the teaching, was a rebuke against those who judge others, yet practice the same (hypocrisy)?
You're only getting the bits you want to see and avoiding the big picture because you don't want to believe it. That's called a lot of things, but I'll just call it tunnel vision, because it makes you miss the big picture and because God can fix your "eyes", the eyes of your perception. Stick with it. It is impossible for the word of God to return to Him void. If you persist in the word, your faith will grow, but milk is milk and meat is meat. Find a ministry, discover your gifts and put them into practice. Use wisdom to see opportunity and do His works, the meat, the works of Christ in us. Of course, these things all assume that you've prayed the prayer of faith to receive His Spirit, because it is impossible to do His works without His Spirit. I'm confident that you will understand eventually, but it would be better now than before the Bema seat.

Told ya I would not be drawn into the negativity....so time to put you on ignore...
Peace...looking for those looking to discuss scripture in love.....so peace

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
I hear you loud and clear. We just see differently regarding that matter. You have your thoughts on me which you expressed in your post. I on the other hand, see you misusing the said passage.

Your whole problem is you can't understand that if you're building the house of God that is composed of people, people are the building material you use to build it. And it is that material that may or may not get burned up when that building gets tested in the fires of the coming judgment to see what quality the materials you built it with are.

Nope. Not a problem with me for I see that too. The difference is in the appreciation of the passage under reading. You see the people there as the works of the servant builders. On the other hand I don’t see it that way in 1 Cor. 3:9-12. What works will be burned and not have any reward for it are the things they do in building ~ how they build.

Tong
R3557

 

[Corlove13]

Titus 2....


11For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;


14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Why did He give Himself up for us?
Does it say He gave Himself up for us so that we could have heaven when we die?

Or that he might redeem us from all iniquity?

And how is this done?