new version of OSAS?

[Tong2020]

The passage is about whether or not your work will make it through the judgment by fire at the end of the age. Your work is the people you have ministered to and placed on top of the foundation of Christ in the building of God.

...you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house... 1 Peter 2:5​

If those you have placed in the building of God are perishable and nothing more than hay, wood, and stubble they will be shown for what they are and will be consumed in the judgment and you will receive no reward for your labor. You yourself may be saved (if you have not been tearing down the building of God), but you will have no reward for your labor.

I’d say a misuse of the passage there.

How do you build on the foundation, so that what you build with, may be burned but not you?

Tong
R3509

 

[Corlove13]

Nothing incoherent there.

Yes it is clear then that you consider and take your abiding and enduring as your working.

And so we have a different perspective and take with regards that matter. For as with me, it is God’s working.

Tong
R3508

In Roman's 12 :1 is that something God does? Or what we do?
And so, dear brothers and sisters, I plead with you to give your bodies to God because of all he has done for you. Let them be a living and holy sacrifice—the kind he will find acceptable. This is truly the way to worship him.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
This was the passage quoted:

James 2:17 (NKJV)
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is DEAD.

Where in there are the Christian works?

That may have been the verse quoted, but I said the works James is talking about are in the passage—the passage this verse comes from. I'll save you the time. He's talking about works of the law (I told you you wouldn't like it, lol). Not Sabbath keeping and Festivals. We don't have to do those anymore. The works of the law that can be summed up in 'love your neighbor as yourself'—like 'don't show favoritism', 'remember the widow and the orphan'. This is faith expressing itself through love (Galatians 5:6). These are the expressions of 'love your neighbor as yourself' that justify you as having the righteousness of God in Christ. It is this expression of faith that is not dead that shows you have the righteousness of God that comes through faith in Christ.

<<<I'll save you the time. He's talking about works of the law >>>
What works of the law? What law are you referring to?

I was asking about @kcnalp ’s reference to Christian works in his statement, which you try to answer for him. It would be better if he were the one who answers that. Below was his statement.

“If you don't have Christian works you're not a Christian!”

Tong
R3510

 

[Corlove13]

Not all works/effort is about earning Salvation(deliverence).

Grace is said to be unmerited favor meaning unearned...favor. Like what you work for in order to get something back.

For scripture says: Roman's 11:35
Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

Try this def of grace out:"Grace is God acting in our life to do what we cannot do on our own." DW

Net defines unmerited as: not adequately earned or deserved

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
So tell us how many times for every kind of sin that one is said to be living in it?

I already gave my answer. Now you give your answer to Paul's teaching.....

...sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.1 Corinthians 6:20-21
​

How many sins do you say constitutes 'live like this'? I gave my answer. What's yours?

Yes your answer is that when one commits 39 times, say lying, he is said to be an ongoing liar. So, I gather from that, that 38 and below, would not make him so. And I am inclined to think that that would be a sort of a standard that you hold as pertains to the other sins.

With regards your question, firstly, I looked up the passage of 1Cor.6:20, and it is not what you quoted. Secondly, I don’t know of a scale or standard such as you have that tells me one is an ongoing liar or not.

Tong
R3511

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Perhaps everybody knows that. But it seems while you do, He isn’t the one who is in control in your salvation, the pilot so to speak, but is only your co-pilot.

I guess if you aren't old enough and weren't raised in the United States you wouldn't know I was being funny. That was a popular bumper sticker years ago here in the United States.

So, tell us, is God your co-pilot or what?

Tong
R3512

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Nothing is so hard to understand about it by those who were given understanding of it by God.

Do you not see that Jesus was telling them what it means to believe in Him and truly be His disciples? I do. Jesus was telling them that truly believing Him means abiding to His words which makes one to be His disciple indeed.

<<<And when true ones don't want to follow him anymore they don't.>>>

There is nothing like that said in John 8:31.

You're reading your Osas bias into it. All he's saying istrue disciples follow him. There's nothing there about always and forever holding to Jesus' teachings. True disciples follow his teachings. False one's do not. Don't go beyond what is written.

Nope.

<<<All he's saying is true disciples follow him. There's nothing there about always and forever holding to Jesus' teachings.>>>

Then you are perhaps reading a different bible. My bible says “if you abide in my words…” That sure denotes remaining and continuing in His words.

Tong
R3513

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Are you suggesting that peoples’ salvation is what teachers/preachers make of them, either straw, hay, wood, or gold, silver, and precious stones? And if they make them straw, hay, wood, these people will suffer fire, and they don’t?

Isn’t that a clear misuse of scriptures

Paul is saying the co-worker of God either raises people up in a genuine salvation that can carry them through the judgment to come, or they don't. And if you don't, for whatever the reason—laziness, an incomplete or inadequate gospel message, etc.—there will be no reward for that servant of God. He's telling the Corinthians this to show he has a vested interest in making sure they hear the truth and are genuinely saved and prepared for the return of Christ. He's contrasting himself to the false apostles preaching to them with their 'other' gospel that can't save, and how they are doing it for temporary monetary gain. There's no benefit to him to teach them a false gospel that can not save and which results in no reward for him personally.

<<<Paul is saying the co-worker of God either raises people up in a genuine salvation that can carry them through the judgment to come, or they don't. >>>

So, I did understand you correctly. That their work raises people up, which people may suffer fire, if they were raised to be as hay, straw, or wood, and while they won’t even if they had raised them as such.

So, yes. A clear misuse then of the passage.

Tong
R3514

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Nope. I already gave you the post#, your post even. All you have to do is go there and be clarified and be refreshed of what you have agreed in what I posted. If that isn’t evasion then what? Perhaps Laziness?

Ok, if youd rather not be clear, that is up to you....thanks just the same.

Not that I’d rather not be clear. But that I’d rather that I won’t waste time on such tactics or behavior.

Tong
R3515

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Who are the clowns and liars you are talking about?

I think you fit the criteria.

Just as I thought you’d say. God forgive.

Tong
R3516

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
God is Him who worked out David’s being brought to repentance. God had kept Him.

No offense intended, but some of your posts are becoming a bit incoherent. If you cannot help it, I understand, but please understand that may be why some may go unanswered.

Really? I wonder why others don’t see me the same way as you do.

Or is it perhaps, such things to you comes as incoherent even when they are not?

David have come to repentance. We know that. But do you know what brought David to repentance? Whose work was it? Was it not God’s doing and working? That if it were not of God’s working, David would not have come to repentance. Don’t you see it like that? Or do you believe that it was David’s own doing and working that brought him to repentance?

Tong
R3517

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
That choice was for the children of Israel, the covenant people, to make

Still true for Christian's though, Jesus said that the commandment is life and belief in the gospel is not optional.

Not just what that scriptures then says was a choice for all the world to make, but for the children of Israel.

But yes, the command now to repent unto God and towards faith in Jesus Christ or not, is a choice between life and death.

Care must be taken in our take of scriptural passages.

Tong
R3518

 

[Tong2020]

What I see is that 1 Corinthians 3:5-16 is about the servants of God having reward for their labor in the field and building of God, and not having reward for their labor in the field and building of God, depending on how well they planted, watered, and built, which is why they need to be careful how they do that.

And in your take of the passage, what becomes of the people whom you take to be as hay, straw, or wood? In your take, these people suffer fire, because they were taught not the truth, yet those servants who build them to be so, escape to not suffer fire. Sure sounds off a pretty loud alarm.

Tong
R3519

 

[Tong2020]

Yes, people are rewards......

For what is our hope, our joy, or the crown in which we will glory in the presence of our Lord Jesus when he comes? Is it not you? 1 Thessalonians 2:19​

1 Thessalonians 2:20 For you are our glory and joy.

That is the sense of verse 19. It is different to what reward is spoken in 1 Cor.3:5-16

Tong
R3520

 

[Tong2020]

Because I am a new creation in Christ. The Holy Spirit canceled the power of sin in my flesh. Now I'm free to please God.

May I ask, before you were a new creation in Christ, were you not free to please God?

Tong
R3521

 

[Tong2020]

Don't worry, I "will not boast beyond proper limits, but will confine (my) boasting to the sphere of service God himself has assigned to (me)." 2 Corinthians 10:13

If my service in the field and building of God is me being full of myself, then so be it, for this also comes from the word of God...

...the crown in which we will glory in the presence of our Lord Jesus when he comes... 1 Thessalonians 2:19

...you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus. 2 Corinthians 1:4

...then I will be able to boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor in vain. Philippians 2:16
​

And notice all this happening in the day of the Lord, just like in 1 Corinthians 3:13. So, let us all make sure we are being careful how we build so we can have a reward—1 Corinthians 3:10, 1 Corinthians 3:13-14. And let us all run in such a way as to get the prize and get a crown that will last forever! 1 Corinthians 9:24-25.

With regards building on the foundation that is Christ, it is not so much for the reward, as it is for the love of God and God’s building. For whether we like it or not, God will reward them or that there is a reward for every work that the child of God does in obedience to Him.

Tong
R3522

 

[Tong2020]

TheslightestID said: ↑
Luke 13:3 ESV

No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish

Good, I'm glad you understand I was and I still am being sincere.

I truly don't understand. The verse I just posted clearly states we must repent, and your reply to that might as well be you stating you disagree with the bible. I guess I'm trying to understand how you, a Christian, can be so caught up that you actually basically admit you disagree with the bible?

Serious question, are you openly admitting you disagree with the bible?

I think the verse you quoted must be taken in its proper context.

Tong
R3523

 

[Tong2020]

Doen't matter if it earns salvation or not, its just a matter of putting two and two together. As long as we repent, we are in, and for me, even it I don't understand the rest, that is enough to get me there.

I'd rather go to heaven with questions in my mind than go to hell because I didnt have all the answers.

I agree with that last paragraph of @Ferris Bueller and I quote:

“BB isn't saying repentance from sin and toward God is not necessary to be saved. He's saying doing those things, in and of themselves, does not earn salvation. And I agree completely. You have to believe and repent to be saved, but neither of those things literally earns your justification and salvation.”

For even while the Jews or Gentiles repent of their sins, that will not earn salvation.

Repentance unto God and towards faith Christ Jesus, for salvation is by grace through faith in God and Christ Jesus.

Tong
R3524

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
That choice was for the children of Israel, the covenant people, to make.

Aren't the Gentiles grafted in.....and do not the blessings of Abraham come by the seed, Christ? And who are those of faith?

The point is that, that scriptures was not given to all the peoples of the world, but to the covenant people then, the children of Israel that is.

Tong
R3525

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Nothing incoherent there.

Yes it is clear then that you consider and take your abiding and enduring as your working.

And so we have a different perspective and take with regards that matter. For as with me, it is God’s working.

In Roman's 12 :1 is that something God does? Or what we do?
And so, dear brothers and sisters, I plead with you to give your bodies to God because of all he has done for you. Let them be a living and holy sacrifice—the kind he will find acceptable. This is truly the way to worship him.

There are some who see what we do but not what God does relative to that.

There were Jews and there were Gentiles. The two groups of people are different with regards knowledge of God. Nonetheless, they are unsaved without Christ.

In their fallen state, unconverted that is, how do you suppose they will be saved, if not of the working of God in and on them, that they repent unto God towards faith in Christ Jesus? Yet what many seems to see is what the Gentile or Jew does when they repent and believe in Christ. So that, they take every scriptures that speaks of what one ought to will and do as pertains to salvation, to be the doing of the man, forgetful of the truth about the working of God in and on them so that they will what they will, and do what they do and are saved.

Oh, how some easily forget who they were and how they were saved by God!

Tong
R3526