new version of OSAS?

[Cooper]

That’s right. Jesus defined believing as one that abides.

Some do not abiding there as that defines believing. Instead they read and take abiding there as something else, such as though it is something separate from believing.

Tong
R3358

Where are those people spiritually who do not abide in the Lord?
.

 

[Cooper]

You are saved indeed for that is what God in Scriptures said of them who believed in God and Him whom He sent, Jesus Christ. That is, considering that the believing is one as defined by Jesus Christ, one that is from the heart and that abides.

Tong
R3359

You did well to mention 'abiding' faith.
.

 

[Cooper]

Yes. And we should understand that and why, in the proper context.

The thing I wonder about and which remains even with your post there, is and I repeat, “that while scriptures tells us clearly that there is absolutely nothing that can separate those now who are in Christ from God and Jesus, that some have the mind that they consider their will power excluded from the absolute nothing that can separate one from God. To think they are Christians and supposedly have the mind of Christ, that such thoughts comes to them even to the point of embracing such.“

Tong
R3360

Nothing can separate us from the love of God, except our own waywardness. Adam and Eve are examples.
.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
That’s right. Jesus defined believing as one that abides.

Some do not abiding there as that defines believing. Instead they read and take abiding there as something else, such as though it is something separate from believing.

So where are those people spiritually who do not abide in the Lord?
.

If one does not abide in the Lord, could mean different things. But one thing is sure, those who abide are indeed who have truly believed.

Tong
R3361

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Yes. And we should understand that and why, in the proper context.

The thing I wonder about and which remains even with your post there, is and I repeat, “that while scriptures tells us clearly that there is absolutely nothing that can separate those now who are in Christ from God and Jesus, that some have the mind that they consider their will power excluded from the absolute nothing that can separate one from God. To think they are Christians and supposedly have the mind of Christ, that such thoughts comes to them even to the point of embracing such.“

Nothing can separate us from the love of God, except our own waywardness. Adam and Eve are an example.
.

That is what keeps me wondering about.

To think that Christians supposedly have the mind of Christ, that such thoughts comes to them even to the point of embracing that idea,

Scriptures tells us clearly that there is absolutely nothing that can separate those now who are in Christ from God and Jesus, that some have the mind that they consider their will power excluded from the absolute nothing that can separate one from God, is mind boggling for me.

This is why I brought up the questions for consideration: Do you think you can throw away Him you claim, profess, and confess to believe? Do you think you will ever desire or want to do that? Do you see any one reason that could change what today you claim, profess, and confess concerning God and Jesus?

Tong
R3362

 

[Cooper]

If one does not abide in the Lord, could mean different things. But one thing is sure, those who abide are indeed who have truly believed.

Tong
R3361

Yes indeed, that is why we are told to remain steadfast in the Lord. 21 Helpful Bible Verses About Being Steadfast
.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
If one does not abide in the Lord, could mean different things. But one thing is sure, those who abide are indeed who have truly believed.

Yes indeed, that is why we are told to remain steadfast in the Lord. 21 Helpful Bible Verses About Being Steadfast
.

Yes. But not because our abiding is that which why we are saved, as some have made it to be.

Tong
R3363

 

[Cooper]

Yes. But not because our abiding is that which why we are saved, as some have made it to be.

Tong
R3363

Believers are saved by the blood of the Lamb that cleanses from all sin, but remember what you said earlier, "If we remain faithful."
.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Yes. But not because our abiding is that which why we are saved, as some have made it to be.

Believers are saved by the blood of the Lamb that cleanses from all sin, but remember what you said earlier, "If we remain faithful."
.

But to not be misunderstood, our remaining is not a condition to be saved. It points to the kind of faith or believing through which God saves.

Tong
R3364

 

[BloodBought 1953]

That’s right. Jesus defined believing as one that abides.

Some do not abiding there as that defines believing. Instead they read and take abiding there as something else, such as though it is something separate from believing.

Tong
R3358

“And who is he that abides.....the one that believes Jesus is the Son Of God”

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
That’s right. Jesus defined believing as one that abides.

Some do not take abiding there as that defines believing. Instead they read and take abiding there as something else, such as though it is something separate from believing.

“And who is he that abides.....the one that believes Jesus is the Son Of God”

Yes. For this is what Jesus said regarding believing:

John 8:31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.

So, not that one claims, professed, and confess he believed in Jesus means he is a true disciple. He is a true believer and disciple if his believing is as Jesus defined it in that passage.

Tong
R3365

 

[Cooper]

Yes. For this is what Jesus said regarding believing:

John 8:31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.

So, not that one claims, professed, and confess he believed in Jesus means he is a true disciple. He is a true believer and disciple if his believing is as Jesus defined it in that passage.

Tong
R3365

With regard to the subject in hand, the word 'abiding' is the relevant one.
.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Yes. For this is what Jesus said regarding believing:

John 8:31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.

So, not that one claims, professed, and confess he believed in Jesus means he is a true disciple. He is a true believer and disciple if his believing is as Jesus defined it in that passage.

With regard to the subject in hand, the word 'abiding' is the relevant one.
.

Yes. And believing that is not abiding is not the relevant one in the subject at hand.

And so, considering this then, the idea and argument of losing salvation because of not abiding is rendered null and void. For him who does not abide will have been manifested as not a true believer or disciple, which makes him not have been saved at all.

Tong
R3366

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Where are those people spiritually who do not abide in the Lord?
.

Im one of them. I do not always remain in trust (abide). I can get caught in worries about what will happen to me when I can no longer work since I have no husband or children and live hand to mouth with no retirement saved. I know He said God knows what I have need of and will provide for me but I stop remaining in trust and turn to worry sometimes. I know He still remains in me even when I’m untrusting and unbelieving of what He promised, but sometimes I don’t remain in trust. So He abides in me, but I don’t always abide in Him. I stumble in trust sometimes and begin to think I must do as the world says and collect more than enough for the day.

 

[Tong2020]

Im one of them. I do not always remain in trust (abide). I can get caught in worries about what will happen to me when I can no longer work since I have no husband or children and live hand to mouth with no retirement saved. I know He said God knows what I have need of and will provide for me but I stop remaining in trust and turn to worry sometimes. I know He still remains in me even when I’m untrusting and unbelieving of what He promised, but sometimes I don’t remain in trust. So He abides in me, but I don’t always abide in Him. I stumble in trust sometimes and begin to think I must collect more than enough for the day.

That is really what is not abiding in the Lord Jesus Christ. You are still abiding, though at those times, overtaken by such worrying. It is I’d say is weakness due to the flesh, but not “not abiding”. I am quite sure that we all have those moments. And when such times comes to me, I turn to the Lord and ask him to take the worries away from me after which I find myself comforted, even more ready to go home. Such is always a reminder of how it feels then when I surrendered my will to Him. Brings me to tears each and every time.

Tong
R3367

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That is what keeps me wondering about.

To think that Christians supposedly have the mind of Christ, that such thoughts comes to them even to the point of embracing that idea,

Scriptures tells us clearly that there is absolutely nothing that can separate those now who are in Christ from God and Jesus, that some have the mind that they consider their will power excluded from the absolute nothing that can separate one from God, is mind boggling for me.

This is why I brought up the questions for consideration: Do you think you can throw away Him you claim, profess, and confess to believe? Do you think you will ever desire or want to do that? Do you see any one reason that could change what today you claim, profess, and confess concerning God and Jesus?

Tong
R3362

Ask BB. He said he fell away from God back to unbelief...

It happened to me! I was a Believer throughout my youth, and as many do, I lost my Faith when I went to college....I saw myself as a “ smart guy” , and we all knew that “ smart guys” don’t believe in all of that “ God” Nonsense ! That stuff is for the gullible and weak people that need a “ crutch” to get through life.....I was a full- fledged Atheist and proud of it.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
That is what keeps me wondering about.

To think that Christians supposedly have the mind of Christ, that such thoughts comes to them even to the point of embracing that idea,

Scriptures tells us clearly that there is absolutely nothing that can separate those now who are in Christ from God and Jesus, that some have the mind that they consider their will power excluded from the absolute nothing that can separate one from God, is mind boggling for me.

This is why I brought up the questions for consideration: Do you think you can throw away Him you claim, profess, and confess to believe? Do you think you will ever desire or want to do that? Do you see any one reason that could change what today you claim, profess, and confess concerning God and Jesus?

Ask BB. He said he fell away from God back to unbelief...

Then is a thing of the past.

Tong
R3368

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Im one of them. I do not always remain in trust (abide). I can get caught in worries about what will happen to me when I can no longer work since I have no husband or children and live hand to mouth with no retirement saved. I know He said God knows what I have need of and will provide for me but I stop remaining in trust and turn to worry sometimes. I know He still remains in me even when I’m untrusting and unbelieving of what He promised, but sometimes I don’t remain in trust. So He abides in me, but I don’t always abide in Him. I stumble in trust sometimes and begin to think I must do as the world says and collect more than enough for the day.

You are describing the difference between "if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself", and, "If we disown him, he will also disown us" - 2 Timothy 2:12-13. You did not disown him, you were faithless. You can have little faith in God's activity in your life and you remain saved, but you cannot outright reject salvation in Christ and remain saved.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Then is a thing of the past.

Tong
R3368

It's exactly what you said can not happen. And you wondered why any believer would do that. Well it did happen, so ask him why he went from believer to full fledged atheist.

Just because that's not your experience, and you are sure it never will be, that doesn't mean you can project your thoughts and experiences onto everybody else.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

That is really what is not abiding in the Lord Jesus Christ. You are still abiding, though at those times, overtaken by such worrying. It is I’d say is weakness due to the flesh, but not “not abiding”. I am quite sure that we all have those moments. And when such times comes to me, I turn to the Lord and ask him to take the worries away from me after which I find myself comforted, even more ready to go home. Such is always a reminder of how it feels then when I surrendered my will to Him. Brings me to tears each and every time.

Tong
R3367

mmm....I don’t think so. The whole abide in Me thing and the if My word remains in you thing, it isn’t just to believe you will live forever.

How is His word to not worry about money and provision remaining in me, or I in it, if I am worrying about money?

To me, abiding means remaining in trust of all He has said. You say that even if I am not remaining in that trust, I am abiding. To me, that is like saying, even when I’m not abiding, I am still abiding, so it makes no sense to me...