MYSTERY, BABYLON... IS NOT THE CHURCH OF ROME

[tailgator]

Read the New Testament.... "another jesus" and "a different gospel" is referencing false doctrine and a false christ

There's only One Real Jesus... but demons bring false doctrine will try to imitate the Lord which results in people following what they think it the Lord Jesus but in reality they are following demons claiming to be speaking for the Lord who are actually servants of satan speaking lies in behalf of satan to lead people away from the Lord in to hell.

You sure the new testament isn't talking about the Muslim Jesus who didn't die ?

 

[Davy]

The interpretation that Babylon represents the papacy comes from the Historicists, Protestant interpretation of Revelation. While the interpretation that the papacy fulfills the little horn in Daniel and the beast rising from the sea in Revelation is based on sound exegesis and historical accounts, ....

I'm aware of the Protestant Reformation of the 15-16th centuries. My French ancestors were among the first French Protestants and fled to America because of Catholic persecutions. They believed the pope was the prophesied Antichrist of The Bible, but their theory did not pan out. But there are still followers of those old failed Reformation doctrines today which still claim the pope is Antichrist, when the Bible prophecies about the coming "antichrist" "false-Christ" actually do not fit a pope, nor the Catholic Church.

Ever hear of the Club of Rome? They represent a type of hidden financial structure that works out of Rome for the globalist plans to establish a one-world government. So if those who think the Roman Church and the pope represent a 'revived' Roman empire per the Book of Daniel, then why are they not looking at that Club of Rome organization which has nothing to do with the Catholic Church, and everything with today's globalists who are preparing Lucifer's future ten horn, seven head, ten crown world wide beast kingdom over all nations?

.... it can’t be interpreted as Babylon for several reasons, one being that the beasts in Daniel and Revelation can’t fall in a moral sense, which is how Babylon is depicted in Revelation. The condemnation that Babylon fornicates with the kings of the earth cannot apply to an entity that is expected to oppose God, like the beasts in Daniel and Revelation, but must apply to an entity that IS expected to be faithful to God, which would be the apostate church or people of God,

The Biblical idea of the Babylon harlot fornicating with the kings of the earth per Rev.17 & 18 is actually about the idea of world commerce that the future Babylon harlot will head from Jerusalem during the coming "great tribulation".

The 2 Thess.2 Scripture reveals the coming pseudo-Christ that Jesus warned us about in Matt.24:23-26. Paul shows that coming false-Messiah will play God in a new stone temple in Jerusalem for the end, and work those great signs and wonders that will deceive the whole world (except Christ's elect). And he will exalt himself over all... that is 'called'... God, or that is worshiped, so that means a one-world religion over all the world's religions. Would that include the deceived of the Christian Church? Yes, of course.

Yet that coming false-Messiah/antichrist is not going to be doing a fleshy working. He is going to be doing SUPERNATURAL MIRACLES like Lord Jesus would do. And there's the difference with the true Antichrist. It won't be a flesh-born man. It will be Satan himself, in our earthly dimension, here with his angels, in Jerusalem. Rev.12:7 forward reveals that he is coming, literally, to our earthly dimension. Even right now some reading this are probably raising their eyebrows at this revealing.

The passage in Hebrews addresses how to interpret the “great city” in Revelation 11:8, which is highly cryptic. Preterists seem highly cryptic except when it suits their purpose; they insist on being literal.

I don't see the Rev.11:8 being cryptic at all. It is giving a couple of symbols in the spiritual sense, but then defines what city the "great city" is by stating the fact it is where our Lord was crucified...

Rev 11:8
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
KJV

What timing is that Rev.11:8 verse in that Rev.11 chapter? That is 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe timing, which is the time when the "great tribulation" will be going on. Thus those symbols of "Sodom and Egypt" are given in the spiritual false worship sense, because at that time of God's "two witnesses" prophesying against the beast there in future Jerusalem will be a time when false IDOL worship will be going on there by that beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit and kills those "two witnesses" in Jerusalem.

 

[Jerry Huerta]

I'm aware of the Protestant Reformation of the 15-16th centuries. My French ancestors were among the first French Protestants and fled to America because of Catholic persecutions. They believed the pope was the prophesied Antichrist of The Bible, but their theory did not pan out. But there are still followers of those old failed Reformation doctrines today which still claim the pope is Antichrist, when the Bible prophecies about the coming "antichrist" "false-Christ" actually do not fit a pope, nor the Catholic Church.

Ever hear of the Club of Rome? They represent a type of hidden financial structure that works out of Rome for the globalist plans to establish a one-world government. So if those who think the Roman Church and the pope represent a 'revived' Roman empire per the Book of Daniel, then why are they not looking at that Club of Rome organization which has nothing to do with the Catholic Church, and everything with today's globalists who are preparing Lucifer's future ten horn, seven head, ten crown world wide beast kingdom over all nations?



The Biblical idea of the Babylon harlot fornicating with the kings of the earth per Rev.17 & 18 is actually about the idea of world commerce that the future Babylon harlot will head from Jerusalem during the coming "great tribulation".

The 2 Thess.2 Scripture reveals the coming pseudo-Christ that Jesus warned us about in Matt.24:23-26. Paul shows that coming false-Messiah will play God in a new stone temple in Jerusalem for the end, and work those great signs and wonders that will deceive the whole world (except Christ's elect). And he will exalt himself over all... that is 'called'... God, or that is worshiped, so that means a one-world religion over all the world's religions. Would that include the deceived of the Christian Church? Yes, of course.

Yet that coming false-Messiah/antichrist is not going to be doing a fleshy working. He is going to be doing SUPERNATURAL MIRACLES like Lord Jesus would do. And there's the difference with the true Antichrist. It won't be a flesh-born man. It will be Satan himself, in our earthly dimension, here with his angels, in Jerusalem. Rev.12:7 forward reveals that he is coming, literally, to our earthly dimension. Even right now some reading this are probably raising their eyebrows at this revealing.




I don't see the Rev.11:8 being cryptic at all. It is giving a couple of symbols in the spiritual sense, but then defines what city the "great city" is by stating the fact it is where our Lord was crucified...

Rev 11:8
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
KJV

What timing is that Rev.11:8 verse in that Rev.11 chapter? That is 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe timing, which is the time when the "great tribulation" will be going on. Thus those symbols of "Sodom and Egypt" are given in the spiritual false worship sense, because at that time of God's "two witnesses" prophesying against the beast there in future Jerusalem will be a time when false IDOL worship will be going on there by that beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit and kills those "two witnesses" in Jerusalem.

I don’t know what you mean historicism didn’t pan out. It fits perfectly with the exegesis of the prophecies and the historical accounts and parallels the beast from the sea/little horn. And as to the future, that’s relative to ones’ perspective. From Daniel’s and the Apostles perspective the little horn was future, from ours, it’s rise alongside the Germanic kingdoms that supplanted Rome is in the past, as is its wounding when the Protestants rose to usurp its power to secularize society. Pay attention to the rhetoric rising from the beast from the earth, America, that is even now breaking down the barriers between church and state, the MAGA movement, to make an image to the beast. Historicism is the only eschatology that can reconcile the prophecies with historical events, as futurists have to guess about the future.

Most importantly, the Revelation represents the mediation of Christ upon the Church, not the Old Covenant people. Christ doesn’t have a separate mediation for the Old Covenant and temples built by hands. Futurism doesn’t account for the judgment of the Church, but Christ does,

1 Peter 4:
16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

As for the merchants, we have over two hundred years of the rise of the merchants. That’s not a future event and the corruption of society and the Church accompanied their rise. Any dismissal of such evidence can never reconcile Babylon.

 

[amigo de christo]

Regardless.... the so called catholic "church" is leading it's followers to hell by teaching another "jesus" and a "different gospel"

very true my friend . that place is a death trap . And if we love the peoples we warn the peoples .

 

[tailgator]

I'm aware of the Protestant Reformation of the 15-16th centuries. My French ancestors were among the first French Protestants and fled to America because of Catholic persecutions. They believed the pope was the prophesied Antichrist of The Bible, but their theory did not pan out. But there are still followers of those old failed Reformation doctrines today which still claim the pope is Antichrist, when the Bible prophecies about the coming "antichrist" "false-Christ" actually do not fit a pope, nor the Catholic Church.

Ever hear of the Club of Rome? They represent a type of hidden financial structure that works out of Rome for the globalist plans to establish a one-world government. So if those who think the Roman Church and the pope represent a 'revived' Roman empire per the Book of Daniel, then why are they not looking at that Club of Rome organization which has nothing to do with the Catholic Church, and everything with today's globalists who are preparing Lucifer's future ten horn, seven head, ten crown world wide beast kingdom over all nations?



The Biblical idea of the Babylon harlot fornicating with the kings of the earth per Rev.17 & 18 is actually about the idea of world commerce that the future Babylon harlot will head from Jerusalem during the coming "great tribulation".

The 2 Thess.2 Scripture reveals the coming pseudo-Christ that Jesus warned us about in Matt.24:23-26. Paul shows that coming false-Messiah will play God in a new stone temple in Jerusalem for the end, and work those great signs and wonders that will deceive the whole world (except Christ's elect). And he will exalt himself over all... that is 'called'... God, or that is worshiped, so that means a one-world religion over all the world's religions. Would that include the deceived of the Christian Church? Yes, of course.

Yet that coming false-Messiah/antichrist is not going to be doing a fleshy working. He is going to be doing SUPERNATURAL MIRACLES like Lord Jesus would do. And there's the difference with the true Antichrist. It won't be a flesh-born man. It will be Satan himself, in our earthly dimension, here with his angels, in Jerusalem. Rev.12:7 forward reveals that he is coming, literally, to our earthly dimension. Even right now some reading this are probably raising their eyebrows at this revealing.




I don't see the Rev.11:8 being cryptic at all. It is giving a couple of symbols in the spiritual sense, but then defines what city the "great city" is by stating the fact it is where our Lord was crucified...

Rev 11:8
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
KJV

What timing is that Rev.11:8 verse in that Rev.11 chapter? That is 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe timing, which is the time when the "great tribulation" will be going on. Thus those symbols of "Sodom and Egypt" are given in the spiritual false worship sense, because at that time of God's "two witnesses" prophesying against the beast there in future Jerusalem will be a time when false IDOL worship will be going on there by that beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit and kills those "two witnesses" in Jerusalem.

Well,can't blame God for giving Jerusalem to the beast from the abyss.
I mean look at Jerusalem now.It worships the beast from the sea.

That's what Babylon worships.The beast from the sea.

 

[CTK]

Regardless.... the so called catholic "church" is leading it's followers to hell by teaching another "jesus" and a "different gospel"

for what it is worth... here is a carve out from my commentary on the book of Daniel. This is just a small writing that speaks of the papacy as the little horn in both Daniel and Revelation.

Daniel 7:11-12

11I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. 12As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Here, we once again return to the earthly scenes. Most interpretations consider these verses to represent the destruction of the beast (Rome, the fourth kingdom) and the death of the little horn—all seen as end-time events. However, these are not end-time events; rather, they reflect the events following the action described in 2:34. These verses pertain to the aftermath of the division of the fourth kingdom, as presented in Chapter 7. The stone of 2:34 initiates the division of the fourth kingdom from pagan to Papal Rome, leading to significant changes within the fourth beast kingdom. It also reflects the division within His people – those who would accept Him as their Messiah (Pottery clay), and those who would reject Him (Ceramic clay).

Daniel’s attention is drawn to the noise made by the little horn, speaking pompous words. This began prior to when the beast (pagan Rome) is slain and its body destroyed, but this will intensify when the little horn sits atop the beast. Many may interpret the little horn's pompous words as blasphemy against God (only), but another perspective might be considered. The term "pompous words" appears four times in Chapter 7: verses 8, 11, 20, and 25. In verse 8, Daniel summarizes the main facts of his dream, using this term to convey the arrogance of the little horn, without targeting a specific entity. However, in verse 11, the pompous words seem directed at the fourth beast, pagan Rome.

Early Church of Rome

In the beginning, the church in Rome was a community of brothers and sisters, guided by a few of the brothers. The four Gospels and the letters of the Apostles settled the great questions of doctrine. The lives of the believers and the doctrine taught were in accord with the Lord's words, "One is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren." The Scriptures, however, warned that from the midst of the brotherhood would arise a power that would attempt to destroy the Gospel and the simple brotherhood of believers.


The Gradual Rise of Papal Rome

In the second century, the respect that the various Christian elders received was roughly inversely proportional to the status of the city in which they lived. At that time, Rome was the largest, richest, and most powerful city in the world and the queen of the Imperial Roman Empire. If Rome was the queen of cities, why should she not be the one to have a bishop to be the king of bishops? Thus, even when pagan Rome fell to the barbarian nations, some of the political respect that she had won from the nations of the earth remained.
The Barbarian overthrow of the Western Roman Empire was succeeded by the gradual rise of Papal Rome. Gradually, bishops from different parts of the empire, seeing themselves as above ordinary elders, yielded to the bishops of Rome some portion of the honor similar to that which the world gives to a prince. From this approbation, the Bishops of Rome began to demand submission as the third, fourth, and fifth centuries passed.
In these centuries also, as the true gospel was watered down, there came in its place the growth of ritualism in the churches, in which true worship of God and the inner conviction of the Holy Spirit were replaced by ceremonialism and idolatry. Pagan practices took on a veneer of Christianity. The clergy-laity division of the people of God became the accepted base.
This further devolved into a hierarchy of the ruling clergy. By the end of the fifth century, the early ministers of the gospel, who had taught the Scripture, had been replaced by a sacrificing priesthood in which the priest presumed to mediate between God and men. The church was no longer the fellowship of believers under Christ Jesus but rather an institution dominated by a hierarchy, with the most powerful individual being the Bishop of Rome.

The Bishop of Rome Becomes the Pope

The power of the Bishop of Rome ascended as the imperial power of the emperor declined. Edicts of the Emperor Theodosius II and of Valentinian III proclaimed the Roman bishop "as Rector of the whole Church.
The emperor Justinian, who was living in the East in Constantinople in the sixth century, published a similar decree. These proclamations did not create the office of the Pope, but from the sixth century on, there was such advancement of power and prestige that, from that time on, the title "Pope" began to fit the one who was Bishop of Rome.

(An Overview of the History of the Papacy, Richard Bennett, http://www.inplainsit.org/html/overview history papacy.html).

In verse 11, the little horn's pompous words are directed against the fourth beast of pagan Rome until its destruction. By verse 20, the little horn is in power, ruling over the fourth kingdom, and again speaks pompous words, this time towards three of the ten horns, which are subsequently plucked up by the little horn. In Gabriel’s final interpretation in verse 25, the little horn's pompous words are directed against the Most High.

Verse 12 mentions that the lives of the other beasts were prolonged for a season and a time. This suggests that although the dominion of these beasts (representing previous kingdoms) was taken away, their influence and legacy continued for a period. This means that the characteristics and cultural impacts of the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, and Greek empires persisted even after their political power had diminished, contributing to the complex history leading up to the final judgment and the establishment of God’s eternal kingdom.

Unlike most time elements in Daniel, verse 12 does not convey an exact length of time. Instead, it refers to a period when the first three beasts—Babylon, Mede-Persia, and Greece—would no longer be under the dominion of the fourth beast, pagan Rome. Pagan Rome would be slain and its body destroyed, but the first three beasts, although never to return to power or dominion, would continue under the rule of Papal Rome for a 'season and a time.'

This phrase echoes the sentiment found in Ecclesiastes 3:1, "To everything there is a season and a time for every purpose under heaven." The era of pagan Rome ended, and the kingdom transitioned to Papal Rome, which also has its appointed time and season to rule. When God deems it so, this period will also come to an end. Until that day, those within the first three kingdoms will continue until the events described in Daniel 2:35, which are to occur some 2000 years later.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Nope! Those who use their common sense with reading the Rev.11:8 verse well KNOW it is pointing to JERUSALEM as the "great city", simply because JERUSALEM is where Lord Jesus Christ was crucified.

Rev 11:8
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
KJV

That's JERUSALEM as the "great city"! Easy Peasy!

Says a man with a carnal mind who thought his common sense is the correct interpretation. It does not. It is spiritually discerned. The great city is Christ's people, the congregation of Israel, because every one is a stone of the building. Not made with a literal brick of the city.

BRETHREN IN CHRIST:
Here's another Biblical proof that the "great city" of the Book of Revelation means JERUSALEM and not any other place on earth...

Rev 21:10-11
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Have you skipped the previous verse?

Rev 21:9-10

(9) And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
(10) And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

God is not referring to the physical city of Jerusalem. Instead, she represents God's chosen people, who are saved in both the Old and New Testaments. Collectively, they form the True Bride of Christ.

What you may not understand is that when Revelation chapter 18 speaks of the great city of Babylon, it does not refer to the Bride of Christ. Instead, Babylon symbolizes a counterfeit body of Christ, representing false Christ figures and all professed Christians who do not follow the true teachings. These individuals are not true members of the body of Christ, as it is clear that Christ is not united with a harlot. In the New Testament Covenant, Christ is married only to those who have been cleansed by His blood and who remain united with their God.

What's the difference brethren between that time of Jerusalem as that "great city" there in Rev.21 vs. the Jerusalem of Rev.11:8 where God's "two witnesses" will be killed?

The answer is simple, the Rev.11 events is a time about the "great tribulation" prior to Christ's future return. But the Rev.21 example is about future Jerusalem after Christ's future return.

Stop right there. God is not referring to a literal, physical, or earthly Jerusalem here! You really don’t understand.

Again, the two witnesses in Revelation 11 represent the New Testament saints who have received the power of the Holy Spirit to preach the Gospel to the world. They are the earthly representatives of God's kingdom on Earth and not in physical city of Jerusalem in the Middle East at all!

In Revelation 21, we see Christ's bride, the Holy Jerusalem, where all the saints who have died will come down with Christ. The "alive and remaining" saints at the Second Coming will meet them in the air. This is when you will see the New Jerusalem. All saved members of Israel are considered Christ's bride, and that is who we will see coming down with Christ in the air.

If you do not accept this truth, that's fine. You can continue to focus on the physical city or envision New Jerusalem with foundations and walls made of stones coming down from heaven. Enjoy it until that day that will shock you.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

You sure the new testament isn't talking about the Muslim Jesus who didn't die ?

It's talking about all false christs whether they are muzlim or "christian"

Lots of demonic teaching is coming from those claiming to be "christian" these days

 

[Davy]

Regardless.... the so called catholic "church" is leading it's followers to hell by teaching another "jesus" and a "different gospel"

There Protestant denominations that are leading their congregations to bow to the coming false-Messiah at the end of this world also. So the focus by those in Christ should be with what God says in His Word, and by that measure what all men's doctrines say.

 

[Davy]

I don’t know what you mean historicism didn’t pan out. It fits perfectly with the exegesis of the prophecies and the historical accounts and parallels the beast from the sea/little horn.

As far as that being a pope as the prophesied "antichrist" "pseudo-Christ" that Christ and His Apostles warned us about, no... it does NOT pan out. It didn't during the time of the Protestant Reformation, nor does it today.

God's Word reveals to those in Christ who keep HIS... Word, that the coming spurious Messiah that Jesus warned of in Matthew 24:23-26, and that Apostle Paul warned of in 2 Corinthians 11, and in 2 Thess.2, and that Apostle John warned of in Revelation 13:4-8 and Rev.13:11 forward, and the Christ again warned of in Rev.11:7 and Rev.17:8, and even in Rev.12:7 with his being kicked out of heaven with his angels when the war in heaven happens, that it will be the devil himself as the coming Antichrist at the end of this world.

Anything else is just a bunch of doctrines of men.

 

[Davy]

Says a man with a carnal mind who thought his common sense is the correct interpretation. It does not. It is spiritually discerned. The great city is Christ's people, the congregation of Israel, because every one is a stone of the building. Not made with a literal brick of the city.

Is that all the STUPIDITY that you can come back at me with? That's truly original (LOL)!

The Revelation 11:8 verse is SELF-EXPLANATORY. It was Lord Jesus Christ Who was crucified at JERUSALEM. And that is how we KNOW that verse is pointing to JERUSALEM as the "great city".

Have you skipped the previous verse?

Rev 21:9-10

(9) And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
(10) And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

God is not referring to the physical city of Jerusalem. Instead, she represents God's chosen people, who are saved in both the Old and New Testaments. Collectively, they form the True Bride of Christ.

Verse 9 DOES NOT CHANGE THE SUBJECT of that NEW JERUSALEM as the "great city" of Revelation!

You'll have to try and find a better excuse to REJECT that Rev.21:10 verse than that.

What you may not understand is that when Revelation chapter 18 speaks of the great city of Babylon, it does not refer to the Bride of Christ. Instead, Babylon symbolizes a counterfeit body of Christ, representing false Christ figures and all professed Christians who do not follow the true teachings. These individuals are not true members of the body of Christ, as it is clear that Christ is not united with a harlot. In the New Testament Covenant, Christ is married only to those who have been cleansed by His blood and who remain united with their God.

You're funny.
The Rev.21:10 reference to new JERUSALEM as the "great city" is about Jerusalem UNDER CHRIST AT HIS COMING.

But ALL... the other "great city" references in Revelation before that are of the TIME of the Babylon Harlot in power at Jerusalem! So duh... you having a hard time figuring that out, huh?

Stop right there. God is not referring to a literal, physical, or earthly Jerusalem here! You really don’t understand.

Oh, I understand what God's Word is pointing to with the NEW JERUSALEM very well. Or did you MISS READING in that Rev.21:10 verse that it DESCENDS TO THE EARTH in the future (when Jesus returns)? Where do YOU think the New Jerusalem is going to be, up in the clouds maybe, off this earth, like the FALSE pre-trib rapture believers think with the devil's false doctrines they heed? Did you also miss the following Scripture of where... Christ's future reign with His elect will be...

Rev 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, "Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
KJV

You really do have a hard time understanding the simplicity of Bible Scripture, don't you?

Again, the two witnesses in Revelation 11 represent the New Testament saints who have received the power of the Holy Spirit to preach the Gospel to the world.

What a crock of bull that above is!

God's "two witnesses" will be TWO LITERAL SAINTS that will appear in the city of JERUSALEM on earth during the coming "great tribulation" time. That is why I showed that timing is about the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe Period. Later in that Rev.11 chapter at verse 14 is Jesus' 2nd coming on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe! And it says right then, all the kingdoms of this world become those of our LORD and of His Christ. That's yet another BIBLE TESTIMONY of Christ beginning His reign over the nations on that 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe! That means Jesus' 2nd coming.

In Revelation 21, we see Christ's bride, the Holy Jerusalem, where all the saints who have died will come down with Christ. The "alive and remaining" saints at the Second Coming will meet them in the air. This is when you will see the New Jerusalem. All saved members of Israel are considered Christ's bride, and that is who we will see coming down with Christ in the air.

All the saints will "come down" huh? Down from where?

What you just revealed with that idea is that you wrongly believe in man's FALSE Pre-trib Rapture theory. You can try to hide that fact with denying it on this forum, but you just made a BIG SLIP OF THE TONGUE with that false belief.

Man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory wrongly believes Jesus comes to gather His Church PRIOR to the "great tribulation", and takes them to HEAVEN to live and reign with Him, in HEAVEN. But that ain't... what God's written Word reveals. Instead, even by 1 Thessalonians 4, which 'they' love to partially quote about their fake rapture, in reality Apostle Paul showed Jesus will bring the 'asleep' saints with Him WHEN they are resurrected first (on the LAST DAY of this world). And then, those of us still alive on earth on that day, will be "caught up" to Him, and He brings us ALL to the Mount of Olives with Him, ON EARTH, not up in HEAVEN. No one is going to be raptured up in HEAVEN. (See Zechariah 14 for the location of where Christ's feet touch down upon this earth at His future coming, bringing all the saints with Him there it says).

If you do not accept this truth, that's fine. You can continue to focus on the physical city or envision New Jerusalem with foundations and walls made of stones coming down from heaven. Enjoy it until that day that will shock you.

Accept the devil's truth? Absolutely not! And that is what you are preaching, a bunch of malarkey from men's doctrines! You obviously have a reading comprehension problem and have instead defaulted to believing the devils you instead are listening to.

 

[Davy]

@Davy I guess you know everything, and my simple statements about the last days being specifically about Israel, and their God-fearers are actually wrong.

I only know what you... say, not all of what you believe.

So IF... what you SAY disagrees with God's written Word, you can be sure I will tell you about it.

Now if you don't like... being corrected with being shown Biblical proof 'as written', then you might want to consider getting back in line with God's actual Word 'as written', with more Bible study done on your own, using good Bible study tools that can make that discipline a lot easier, like a KJV Bible and a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance.

BibleSoft even offers a FREE download of their OneTouch Light version of Bible study software, which has many Bible study tools.

Free Bible Study Software Biblesoft

Free Bible Study Software Biblesoft

biblesoft.com

 

[tailgator]

It's talking about all false christs whether they are muzlim or "christian"

Lots of demonic teaching is coming from those claiming to be "christian" these days

There are probably several of those on this site who are not Catholic.

 

[Jerry Huerta]

As far as that being a pope as the prophesied "antichrist" "pseudo-Christ" that Christ and His Apostles warned us about, no... it does NOT pan out. It didn't during the time of the Protestant Reformation, nor does it today.

God's Word reveals to those in Christ who keep HIS... Word, that the coming spurious Messiah that Jesus warned of in Matthew 24:23-26, and that Apostle Paul warned of in 2 Corinthians 11, and in 2 Thess.2, and that Apostle John warned of in Revelation 13:4-8 and Rev.13:11 forward, and the Christ again warned of in Rev.11:7 and Rev.17:8, and even in Rev.12:7 with his being kicked out of heaven with his angels when the war in heaven happens, that it will be the devil himself as the coming Antichrist at the end of this world.

Anything else is just a bunch of doctrines of men.

Futurism is the brainchild of a Jesuit priests, Francisco Ribera. Historicism has a history prior to that in men like Martin Luther. Historicism fits perfectly with the exegesis of the prophecies concerning the beast from the sea/little horn and the historical accounts of the end of the Roman Empire. Daniel 7 affirms the little horn rises out of the ashes of the ancient Roman Empire, just as Luthor concluded, as well as many of learned men of the Reformation. But then Satan had to come along and plant his tares to take the heat of the papacy and devise futurism and preterism.

 

[tailgator]

Futurism is the brainchild of a Jesuit priests, Francisco Ribera. Historicism has a history prior to that in men like Martin Luthor. Historicism fits perfectly with the exegesis of the prophecies concerning the beast from the sea/little horn and the historical accounts of the end of the Roman Empire. Daniel 7 affirms the little horn rises out of the ashes of the ancient Roman Empire, just as Luthor concluded, as well as many of learned men of the Reformation. But then Satan had to come along and plant his tares to take the heat of the papacy and devise futurism and preterism.

Futurism is the brainchild of God who started to tell people what would happen in the future.
He started this long ago and I'm not sure who was the first to be told what would happen in the future.I understand a man named Noah was told to build a boat because there would be a flood in the future and it took place.Since that time God has told prophets of many things that would be fulfilled in the future.Some of those things have already been fulfilled and some of them not yet.
One such event fortold is that Abrahams seed would inherit the promised land for an everlasting possesion.That prophecy has yet to be fulfilled as there is a beast which possesses that land at this moment .But I am sure that kingdom in the land promised to Abrahams seed will soon be destroyed and given to Abrahams seed for an everlasting possession and no one will be able to take it from them,ever.

Daniel 7

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

28 Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.

 

[Jerry Huerta]

Futurism is the brainchild of God who started to tell people what would happen in the future.
He started this long ago and I'm not sure who was the first to be told what would happen in the future.I understand a man named Noah was told to build a boat because there would be a flood in the future and it took place.Since that time God has told prophets of many things that would be fulfilled in the future.Some of those things have already been fulfilled and some of them not yet.
One such event fortold is that Abrahams seed would inherit the promised land for an everlasting possesion.That prophecy has yet to be fulfilled as there is a beast which possesses that land at this moment .But I am sure that kingdom in the land promised to Abrahams seed will soon be destroyed and given to Abrahams seed for an everlasting possession and no one will be able to take it from them,ever.

Daniel 7

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

28 Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.

Again, futurism is the brainchild of a Jesuit priests, Francisco Ribera. That's what history affirms.

Daniel 7:
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

The horns grow out of the fourth beast, the Roman Empire, which means we should be looking for them coming out of the ancient Roman empire, not some future entity at some future time from our perspective.

 

[tailgator]

Again, futurism is the brainchild of a Jesuit priests, Francisco Ribera. That's what history affirms.

Daniel 7:
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

The horns grow out of the fourth beast, the Roman Empire, which means we should be looking for them coming out of the ancient Roman empire, not some future entity at some future time from our perspective.

Daniel 7 is the word of God delivered to us by Daniel the prophet of God.
Daniel was not a Jesuit priest

It is God telling the future through Daniel.

 

[tailgator]

Again, futurism is the brainchild of a Jesuit priests, Francisco Ribera. That's what history affirms.

Daniel 7:
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

The horns grow out of the fourth beast, the Roman Empire, which means we should be looking for them coming out of the ancient Roman empire, not some future entity at some future time from our perspective.

Again,these saints of God have not inherited the promised land yet .The beast is ruling that kingdom.

Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Davy]

Futurism is the brainchild of a Jesuit priests, Francisco Ribera.

I do not follow men's doctrine of Futurism, nor Preterism, nor Full-Preterism, nor Historicism. I believe God's Word about a Post-tribulational coming by Christ to gather His Church.

I follow God's Word 'as written'. Would you like to try again, and the next time actually stick with what God's Word says as written? I don't have time to debate over men's seminary theory categories just to try to show how smart I am.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Is that all the STUPIDITY that you can come back at me with? That's truly original (LOL)!

The Revelation 11:8 verse is SELF-EXPLANATORY. It was Lord Jesus Christ Who was crucified at JERUSALEM. And that is how we KNOW that verse is pointing to JERUSALEM as the "great city".

Just as the Pharisees and the Scribes in John 2:19-21, thought the Lord was talking about the literal buildings of the temple being destroyed when Christ told them to destroy it and in three days He will raise it up as a sign. They have no clues on what Christ talked about. It is the same thing with what you thought about Jersualem. Selah!

Verse 9 DOES NOT CHANGE THE SUBJECT of that NEW JERUSALEM as the "great city" of Revelation!

You'll have to try and find a better excuse to REJECT that Rev.21:10 verse than that.

Humm...I thought you knew exactly who I was talking about, but guess you were not good at checking the rest of the context of the same chapter. Check your Scripture again in same chapter:

Rev 21:2-3
(2) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
(3) And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

New Jersualem and Holy Jersualem within the same context are one and the same. The city is PEOPLE! Not physical walls and gates as you think! How many wives will Lord Jesus have? ONE! According to God, both are the bride of Christ. Selah! Don't like it? Work this out with God yourself.

You're funny.
The Rev.21:10 reference to new JERUSALEM as the "great city" is about Jerusalem UNDER CHRIST AT HIS COMING.

But ALL... the other "great city" references in Revelation before that are of the TIME of the Babylon Harlot in power at Jerusalem! So duh... you having a hard time figuring that out, huh?

Actually, you do not make any sense. Sorry to say. New Jersualem are all people who have been redeemed from among nations in Christ. They will be revealed as "great city", "Holy City", "New Jersualem", "Holy Jerusalem."

Oh, I understand what God's Word is pointing to with the NEW JERUSALEM very well.

Oh you do? I do not think so.

Or did you MISS READING in that Rev.21:10 verse that it DESCENDS TO THE EARTH in the future (when Jesus returns)?

Not at all. Read carefully:

Rev 21:10
(10) And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

It does not say where it will land, ie. Earth. You forced the verse to say this. Big mistake.

Where do YOU think the New Jerusalem is going to be, up in the clouds maybe, off this earth

Can't you read the Scripture?

1Th 4:16-17
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

All God's people will meet together with Lord Jesus, guess where? IN THE AIR! And shall be with the Lord forever from there. It does not say it will come down on this cursed Earth. Silly you.

like the FALSE pre-trib rapture believers think with the devil's false doctrines they heed?

I do not teach or support pre-tribulation rapture at all.

Did you also miss the following Scripture of where... Christ's future reign with His elect will be...

Rev 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, "Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
KJV

You really do have a hard time understanding the simplicity of Bible Scripture, don't you?

Not at all. You need to read the verses carefully and compare Revelation 5:9- 10 with Revelation 14 regarding the 144,000:

Rev 14:3-4
(3) And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
(4) These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

The symbolic 144,000 REPRESENTS those who sings a new song are ALL MEN who have been redeemed (saved) from all nations with the blood of the Lamb. And the Christians of the New Testament are made kings and priests of God's Kingdom on Earth THROUGH THE CHURCH! Right now, we represent God's Kingdom by preaching the Gospel. We are the kings of the Earth and the Merchants of the Earth, selling Gospel to the world! This is how we rule with Christ in His kingdom, doing His work here...on Earth, Right now. Do you deny this? The Lord judges and I am comfortable with that.

What a crock of bull that above is!

Watch your language.

Mat 15:17-19
(17) Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
(18) But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
(19) For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

God's "two witnesses" will be TWO LITERAL SAINTS that will appear in the city of JERUSALEM on earth during the coming "great tribulation" time.

Yeah. Heard that MANY TIMES. I even taught it before. But you are wrong about it.

That is why I showed that timing is about the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe Period. Later in that Rev.11 chapter at verse 14 is Jesus' 2nd coming on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe! And it says right then, all the kingdoms of this world become those of our LORD and of His Christ. That's yet another BIBLE TESTIMONY of Christ beginning His reign over the nations on that 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe! That means Jesus' 2nd coming.

Different subject.

All the saints will "come down" huh? Down from where?

Look, I do not expect you to understand. All saints who have died, their souls will go to heaven and eventually will come down from heaven with Christ when He returns - where we, who are still alive and remain, will meet with them in the air.

What you just revealed with that idea is that you wrongly believe in man's FALSE Pre-trib Rapture theory.

I NEVER teach pre-tribulation rapture here. You are dealing with the wrong person. So I will not deal with the rest of your post filled with false accusations and lies.

Good bye.