Yes, and no. It (Hebrews 1) differentiates between created and uncreated angels (messengers). Jesus is one of the "fellows" of the 'angels' (messengers of the Father). It doesn't make Jesus a created angel (like Gabriel), it makes Him the eternal and uncreated Son, Angel, of the Father. The Son is the highest messenger of the Father. This is in Hebrews 1. Would you like to see?
Michael is Jesus?
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Yes. Scripture does, and thus I Amen what scripture says. I provided the evidence in the very 2nd post.
Michael is Jesus?
Sure. Ok. I will seek for others who are inquiring. Feel free to reply to anything as I share with them. Hope you do not mind if I respond in kind though.
What if I shared with you verses, when read together, say/teach that Jesus (Son of the Father) is Michael? The uncreated and eternal messenger (Angel) of the Father.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Actually, according to scripture, No. The Son of the Father is as eternal, uncreated as the Father is (the Father has always been the Father, and the Son has always been the Son. It is an eternal relationship that has always existed - thus family is an eternal existence). See John 1:1 to begin with. The koine Greek is more emphatic there if needful.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Scripture (John 1:1) says that very thing (along with Proverbs 8, Zechariah 13:7; etc). I am not "trinitarian" (neither is scripture).
That which is "Antichrist" actually denies "the Father and the Son" (1 John 2:22). This statement therein, actually takes into account all of eternity. If you say that there was a point in time in eternity past in which the Son did not yet exist, you have denied "the Father and the Son" at that exact point, and all existence before that point in eternity past.
Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
(1 Timothy 1:17)
Who is this eternal, immortal, invisible, "only" wise God to Whom all honor and glory are ascribed for ever and ever?(1 Timothy 1:17)
let's have a look at the preceding paragraph to see Who Paul is writing about:
And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, Who hath enabled me, for that He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on Him to life everlasting. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
(1 Timothy 1:12-17)
it is Jesus the Christ who:(1 Timothy 1:12-17)
- enabled him
- counted him faithful
- put him into the ministry
- granted him mercy
- showed him grace
- showed him faithfulness
- showed him love
- came into the world ((not being of the world))
- saves sinners
- shows all longsuffering
- is a pattern for all who believe
- is believed on to everlasting life
- is the eternal King
- is immortal
- is the visible manifestation of invisible God
- is the only wise God
- has all honor forever
- has all glory forever
Christ is God!
.. the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, Whom no man has seen or can see, to Whom be honor and everlasting power.
(1 Timothy 6:15-16)
(1 Timothy 6:15-16)
please note that the One called "King of kings and Lord of lords" is said to alone have immortality.
got any guess who that is?
He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS
(Revelation 19:16)
(Revelation 19:16)
it's Christ.
the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.
(Revelation 17:14)
(Revelation 17:14)
it's the Lamb.
now look back at 1 Timothy 1:17 --
Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God
who is the King? Christ. He is eternal, and He is God.
calling the Son a created thing subject to created things like time, is blasphemy.
see John 8:24 -- you either believe He is I AM, or you die in your sin.
that's what 'scripture says' ;)
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
So says you. Jesus is God’s Anointed not God. I only deny trinitarianism not the Father and the Son.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
God, in his unitarian nature, gave the resurrected Christ a revelation in 1:1. That means nothing to you.
I’m OK with the other titles going to God’s Anointed, King of kings and Lord of lords.” lowercase lord. Nowhere is Jesus ever referred to as the Father (which would be God incarnate) or LORD capital. Don’t resort to deception to try to advance your doctrine.
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do not lie -- so says not me, but so says the scripture.
John 8:24.
since you reject God, you will die in your sins.
we don't have anything further to discuss unless one day you become a Christian.
Isaiah 9:6
Acts 20:28
1 Timothy 3:16
dude there are like a thousand places.
i'm honestly shocked at how much unabashed heresy there is in this forum
Jesus is God. It's clearly described in the bible if you take an honest look at it. Had a huge debate with another member on that very subject. A god has power over nature, which Jesus clearly showed. He also said he resurrected himself with God the Father's power, which separates himself from man. Man dies and ends up in paradise or hell until Jesus resurrects them. He is God to us and inseparable from God.
But this thread is about Michael the Arch Angel. Not Michael the god.
But this thread is about Michael the Arch Angel. Not Michael the god.
This is just like all the false "science" of the vaccinators to urge people to get vaccinated with lethal injections. It does not matter how many sources you post about this. It is plainly FALSE DOCTRINE. And false doctrine is lethal spiritual injections.
JESUS CREATED MICHAEL AND HIS ANGELS. Therefore He sends them out to do battle with Satan and his angels.
April_Rose
Well-Known Member
I half agree with you, but this thread isn't about vaccines and you know I haven't seen one post by vaccinators urging people to getting vaccinated,... but I have seen multiple posts by the anti-vacciners urging people not to get it.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Lol. If you are serious about how people justify certain doctrines, and you ask the question, and they offer a number of resources and options, they aren't expecting you to read every one. Just pick one and see what is says. We've all been through this previously, all the scriptures have been presented and the reasons offered... If you don't believe Moses and the prophets, what more can we give?
Since you bring it up BILLIONS OF DOLLARS have been spent urging people to get vaccinated. So kindly do your homework.
The White House is set to unveil a wide-reaching, billion-dollar campaign aimed at convincing every American to get vaccinated
White House set to unveil sweeping vaccine-confidence campaign
How to Sell the Coronavirus Vaccines to a Divided, Uneasy America
https://www.washingtonpost.com/magazine/2021/04/26/coronavirus-vaccines-ad-council/
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