Matthew 28:19 – Trinity corrupted verse

[Marymog]

I can answer about Scripture but am unfamiliar with the Council of Jerusalem. Before I answer, how do you rank Councils in comparison to Scripture?

Sorry Wrangler. I don't play those games. Don't tell me to answer a question before you answer my question. That is just silly. If you can answer about Scripture then please answer.

You said: Christ was GIVEN all authority on Earth and heaven BY GOD. There is no record of Jesus delegating his God-given authority to anyone.

I gave you two verses from Scripture showing you that you are wrong about there being no record of Jesus delegating his God given authority. I also referenced the Council of Jerusalem, which is in Scripture, of which you are unfamiliar with so I will teach you. In a nutshell: At the Council of Jerusalem the Apostles delegated their authority over all Christians and made a decision that was binding upon all Christians and approved by God.

So, once again: How does Luke 10:16 and John 20:23 and the Council of Jerusalem fit into your teaching?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

As I said, the Didache is a document that nobody knows who wrote. The scholars and experts say that they don't know who wrote the Didache . So whoever wrote this document that is the person or person's that is saying the Apostles were the ones who wrote all the things contained in the Didache. That doesn't mean that's true.
Also the Didache isn't the inspired word of God. Other people may put this document and what it contains before what's written down in the scriptures and that's their choice, but I will not. If a religious document is in agreement of what's written down in the scriptures I have no problem with that document. It's the scriptures that are inspired of God not the Didache. Plus no one knew of this document existence until it was discovered by a Greek Orthodox bishop named Philotheos Bryennios in Turkey in 1873.
As I said, I have no problem with any religious documents that goes along with what's written down in the scriptures but it seems to me that people care more about what's written by men than what's written down in scripture. In several places in the scriptures it says the Apostles baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. I see nothing wrong with that.
The issue I have is, when people who are baptized in the name of Jesus but then some people come and try to reason in such a way that these people who were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ were not baptized properly simply and only because the words, in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were not expressed when they were baptized. It's as though these people who speak out against people who were/are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ detest the name Jesus Christ.
I will continue to say that if a person is baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit or baptized in the name of Jesus Christ it's exceptable. I will continue to speak out against those who speak out against anyone who is baptized in the name of Jesus Christ simply and only because the words, in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were not expressed when the person/persons were baptized.

Thanks Barney.

Who wrote Hebrews, Matthew, Mark, Luke and Acts? Not knowing authorship doesn't disqualify it from being reliable Christian teaching. If it did we would have to throw out many books of the bible.

Your missing my point. You are trusting what men of the 16th century thru today are telling you (or have written down) but you don't trust what the men who lived during the times of the Apostles wrote down. That makes no sense to me.

Mary

 

[keithr]

The 'error' I was referring to is catholicism and the big lie = the Vatican is the Church of God and the Pope is the Vicar of Christ.
1 Peter chapter 2 tells us the Truth and destroys the lies of Catholocism

Hmm. What you said in post #270 was:

"So the church is built on the foundation of the apostles (not just Peter) and the prophets, but Jesus is the chief cornerstone of the foundation. Jesus is part of the temple, along with the church, that God will inhabit in the spirit - so clearly Jesus is not God."

This statement is a CLEAR example of error and what the Holy Spirit wants us to avoid.

I don't see any mention of you referring to catholicism there. :

 

[keithr]

How do you know you haven't mistakenly interpreted Scripture and you aren't confused? Is anyone that disagrees with you or your church mistaken and confused?

We can only be come confident that our interpretation of the Scriptures is correct if our interpretation is in harmony with the Scriptures. So if we find a verse or verses which don't seem to fit with our understanding then we should question if our interpretation was correct or not. If we can't understand it, then we just have to wait until God reveals the answer/explanation to us.

I can't claim to understand the whole of the Bible, but we all start off with some foundational understanding and as we continue to read and study the Scriptures then hopefully, and by the grace of God, we'll come to understand more of it. And by sharing and discussing our knowledge and understanding of the Scriptures we help each other to learn more, and to recognise errors that we used to believe but later realise was in error. So we have to use our reasoning powers to search for the truth. As Solomon said, (Proverbs 25:2), "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the glory of kings is to search out a matter", and Revelation 5 says we will be kings :):

9) They sang a new song, saying, “You are worthy to take the book, and to open its seals: for you were killed, and bought us for God with your blood, out of every tribe, language, people, and nation,
10) and made us kings and priests to our God, and we will reign on the earth.”​

 

[David in NJ]

Hmm. What you said in post #270 was:


I don't see any mention of you referring to catholicism there. :

My mind goes much faster then i am able to write and i often have to go back and clarify.
Thank You for pointing that out.
Someone was making a false claim that 'the Church' is 'the Vatican' and was built upon Peter and the Apostles and the lineage of Popes.

 

[keithr]

Your "first post in this thread" suggesting that Matthew 28:19 was altered or added to is not held by most biblical scholars which means your "quite convincing" theory is not quite convincing to scholars.

An alternative conclusion is that when most biblical scholars wrote concerning Matthew 28:19 they did not have access to the information about the Hebrew translation of Matthew (which was only translated into English in 1987), and the sources of quotes of Matthew 28:19 in early writings.

If you were a biblical scholar you would know that 2 Timothy was a pastoral letter to Timothy from Paul. This means that the vs you referenced (2 Timothy 3:16) is not meant for every person who reads the bible, it wasn't meant for you personally. If it was meant for every person who read the bible then when I correct, rebuke and train you I am right and you should listen to me. When you correct, rebuke and train me you are right and I should listen to you. And when the Catholic Church corrects, rebukes and trains the Lutheran Church they should listen and vice a versa and so on and so on.....Can you see how your misinterpretation of that passage doesn't logically work?

Paul's statement that "Every Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness" is a statement of fact. It doesn't mean that only one person, Timothy, was allowed to treat the Scriptures that way! If you were to quote some verses of Scripture that clearly proved my understanding or interpretation wrong, then I would have to acknowledge that I was wrong and need to do some more searching for the truth concerning the subject matter. Likewise I would hope that when I quote verses and explain what I think they mean, that others would realise that their different understanding was incorrect, if they were unable to show other verses of Scripture that supported their understanding. Unfortunately a lot of replies I see quote verses but their interpretation of them sometimes defies logic, and their writers stubbornly continue to believe the error! We can point out verses of Scriptures but we can't make people correctly understand them! For example, we can quote John 20:17, "Jesus said ... “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God”, and other verses like 1 Corinthians 8:6, and yet some people still think that Jesus is God!

 

[David in NJ]

An alternative conclusion is that when most biblical scholars wrote concerning Matthew 28:19 they did not have access to the information about the Hebrew translation of Matthew (which was only translated into English in 1987), and the sources of quotes of Matthew 28:19 in early writings.


Paul's statement that "Every Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness" is a statement of fact. It doesn't mean that only one person, Timothy, was allowed to treat the Scriptures that way! If you were to quote some verses of Scripture that clearly proved my understanding or interpretation wrong, then I would have to acknowledge that I was wrong and need to do some more searching for the truth concerning the subject matter. Likewise I would hope that when I quote verses and explain what I think they mean, that others would realise that their different understanding was incorrect, if they were unable to show other verses of Scripture that supported their understanding. Unfortunately a lot of replies I see quote verses but their interpretation of them sometimes defies logic, and their writers stubbornly continue to believe the error! We can point out verses of Scriptures but we can't make people correctly understand them! For example, we can quote John 20:17, "Jesus said ... “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God”, and other verses like 1 Corinthians 8:6, and yet some people still think that Jesus is God!

Or maybe, as both Jesus and the Scriptures do say: That Jesus is King of kings, Lord of lords, the I AM who spoke to Moses AND that Jesus is equal with God because He is the Word who was with God and was God from the Beginning
AND because the Father and the Son BOTH are the Temple of God

But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine [l]in it, for the [m]glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. Revelation 21:22-23
And he showed me a [a]pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb = EQUAL because They are Echad (United ONE)

 

[Wrangler]

You said: Christ was GIVEN all authority on Earth and heaven BY GOD. There is no record of Jesus delegating his God-given authority to anyone.

I gave you two verses from Scripture showing you that you are wrong about there being no record of Jesus delegating his God given authority.

Bold claim. If you re-examine your facts, I think you will find that I am correct; that there is no record of the resurrected Jesus, after stating he was GIVEN all authority on Earth and heaven, having then delegated that authority.

 

[Wrangler]

Sorry Wrangler. I don't play those games. Don't tell me to answer a question before you answer my question. That is just silly.

Mary, if you don’t want to clarify the scope of your question, that is fine. However, that is the silly game you are playing.

I trusted that you knew the difference between: A. Answering a question with a question; B. Clarifying what the original question is. I was mistaken; You lack discernment.

 

[marks]

See my reply in post #58. In that I wrote:

I don't think it still exists (that I know of) but in 1380 a Spanish Jewish Rabbi called Shem-Tob ben Isaac Shaprut published a work called Eben Boḥan (The Touchstone) in which he included the complete Gospel. As I mentioned in my first post, in 1987 Dr. George Howard published an English translation of Shem Tob's Matthew Hebrew Gospel. A scanned copy of part one (containing the Gospel in Hebrew and English) of the second edition of the book is available for download at http://www.kingdomofyisrael.org/s/w...spel-of-MATTHEW-by-George-Howard-Part-One.pdf (56.1MB).

I see. Thank you!

Much love!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I question any human or humans including theologians and biblical scholars who denies that it was the only Begotten Son of God who came to mankind in the likeness of the first man Adam. I don't care what anybody thinks about that. So you can go ahead and say what you want about the NWT or watchtower. So can anybody else including theologians and biblical scholars. As long as they deny that it was the Only Begotten Son of God who became human it's not really going to bother me what they say.

I do not question that at all! What I don't do as you have been indoctrinated to do is neglect all else that is true of Jesus as to who He was, is and forever will be!

I do not know of an theologian or scholar who believes in the bible that denies Jesus in the flesh is the only begotten son of God! But the watchtower uses twisted and convoluted logic to try to say Jesus was Michael the Archangel before He came to earth and incarnated as jesus!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Words are WHAT’s not WHO’s.

Obviously, the word of Wrangler is with Wrangler, the word of Ronald Nolette is with Ronald Nolette and the word of God is with God.

Jesus said he does not speak his own words but the words of God, who sent him. God said he would put his words into a prophet he chooses among the people in Deuteronomy 18:15-18. This prophet is Jesus.

John 20:31 informs us everything in his Gospel was to convince us the BIG REVEAL is Jesus is the Messiah. This logically means NOTHING in his Gospel can be for any other purpose, including supporting the notion that God came to Earth incarnation.

And once again, you confuse th eperson of God the Father with the nature of God the Father and God the Son and that nature is God or absolute divinity. What part of that difference do you find to understand?

 

[David in NJ]

And once again, you confuse th eperson of God the Father with the nature of God the Father and God the Son and that nature is God or absolute divinity. What part of that difference do you find to understand?

Dear Ronald Nolette,
In agreement with you recent posts here some find themselves in a dilemma.
Since God said: There shall be no other gods before Me - How then can Jesus be an Angel or even a Divine Person since we are commanded: 'There is no other name under Heaven whereby we must be saved.
And Jesus said this of Himself: Before Abraham I AM - 'which directly contradicts 'there shall be no other gods before Me.
How can Jesus say: "so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him"
How can the Scriptures say: In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. This would be blasphemy since we all have read and know that Genesis1:1 says "In the beginning God"

Unless, Jesus is a United One with the Father and the Holy Spirit

God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” God, furthermore, said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations.
Exodus 3:14-16

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The context of 1 John 3 (WEB):

1) See how great a love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God! For this cause the world doesn’t know us, because it didn’t know him.
2) Beloved, now we are children of God, and it is not yet revealed what we will be. But we know that when he is revealed, we will be like him; for we will see him just as he is.​

John 1:12 (WEB) "But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God’s children, to those who believe in his [Jesus'] name".

God will makes us His sons, part of His new creation, of which Jesus was the firstborn, which will have the same divine nature as God.

1 Timothy 6:16) [God] who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and eternal power. Amen.

1 Corinthians 15 (WEB):
20) But now Christ has been raised from the dead. He became the first fruits of those who are asleep.
38) But God gives it a body even as it pleased him, and to each seed a body of its own.
53) For this perishable body must become imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54) But when this perishable body will have become imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then what is written will happen: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”


Yes, that can often be the case, which is why I had quoted from more than one passage in my previous post, and the verses I have quoted in this reply add to it, confirming, I believe, that the God given resurrection body for Christians is similar to the resurrection body that Jesus has - having a divine spiritual nature. I would expect that Jesus, and God, will have greater glory and power than resurrected Christians, but nevertheless we will share the same nature. How amazing is the generosity and love of God!

1 Corinthians 2:9 (MKJV):

But as it is written, "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard," nor has it entered into the heart of man, "the things which God has prepared for those who love Him."​

You forget we are not inherently the children of God but become so by adoption and regeneration.

also only God has inherent immortality, we get clothed with it.

God makes u9s His osns, not by the process that Jesus is His Son. Also in the OT Jesus is called the son of Jehovah in the psalms.

We will be like Jesus (similar) because we are given those things that Jesus has by nature.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Well if the New World Translation is "an uncorrupted translation" as you claim, then perhaps we should all be using the NWT?! ;)

Well if I said uncorrupted, I apologize. The New Word Mistranslation is very corrupted and an intentional miswrite of the Word of God.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Dear Ronald Nolette,
In agreement with you recent posts here some find themselves in a dilemma.
Since God said: There shall be no other gods before Me - How then can Jesus be an Angel or even a Divine Person since we are commanded: 'There is no other name under Heaven whereby we must be saved.
And Jesus said this of Himself: Before Abraham I AM - 'which directly contradicts 'there shall be no other gods before Me.
How can Jesus say: "so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him"
How can the Scriptures say: In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. This would be blasphemy since we all have read and know that Genesis1:1 says "In the beginning God"

Unless, Jesus is a United One with the Father and the Holy Spirit

God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” God, furthermore, said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations.
Exodus 3:14-16

Amen!

Most people overlook that in the Shema, the word one is first an odd addition, and second it is not the cardinal one, but the Hebrew for the ordinal one, which is how Hebrew speakers wrote to express a united one. We would say8 the Boston REd sox is one baseball team in MLB. It is comprised of 26 players but is still just one baseball team.

I have been pondering lately that when God gave His name ( I am who I am) it was just as much a declaration of who He is as well as a name Moses could use.

 

[Wrangler]

And once again, you confuse th eperson of God the Father with the nature of God the Father and God the Son

I'm not confusing anything. There is no God the Son. The Son of God said his Father is the only true God. That's good enough for me.

 

[Wrangler]

Unless, Jesus is a United One with the Father and the Holy Spirit

There is no trinity. God is Spirit and his Spirit is holy. This is the attribute of God, not a 3rd being. Also, being united does not make 2 into 1.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I'm not confusing anything. There is no God the Son. The Son of God said his Father is the only true God. That's good enough for me.

And the fact teh Word made flesh is Jesus and He is called God and that Joh inspired byu the Spirit said Jesus was equal to God and that Paul under the inspiration of th eHoly Spirit Jesus existed as God before He became man and that tghe mystery of godliness is that God was manifest in human flesh are good enough for me.

See I take all these verses- and with these, antitheses, synthesis of ALL bible verse come up with what the Bible teaches. And I also accept John 17 that God the Father is exalted above all. But that still does not negate that Jesus is equally divine as His Father as Scripture teaches.

 

[David in NJ]

And the fact teh Word made flesh is Jesus and He is called God and that Joh inspired byu the Spirit said Jesus was equal to God and that Paul under the inspiration of th eHoly Spirit Jesus existed as God before He became man and that tghe mystery of godliness is that God was manifest in human flesh are good enough for me.

See I take all these verses- and with these, antitheses, synthesis of ALL bible verse come up with what the Bible teaches. And I also accept John 17 that God the Father is exalted above all. But that still does not negate that Jesus is equally divine as His Father as Scripture teaches.

Words Worthy of Meditation and Instruction in Righteousness.
Ronald Nolette said: And I also accept John 17 that God the Father is exalted above all. But that still does not negate that Jesus is equally divine as His Father as Scripture teaches.

I would add to the ending of your sentence "as the Holy Spirit teaches us..."

Dear Everyone,
Who wants to know and see the Father?
Answer: You never will without the Son.
But I saw no temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its Temple. And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, because the glory of God illuminates the city, and the Lamb is its light.

Father/Son and Son/Father = United as ONE