Lucifer's Original Rebellion

[Davy]

The new babe in Christ is rarely if ever taught about Lucifer's original rebellion in the 'old world'. And most Churches today continue to hide this Bible teaching from their congregations, because they are told to keep the members on the 'milk' of God's Word, and not the "strong meat" (Hebrews 5).

It is obvious per Hebrews 5, that the Christian is to eventually mature in understanding in God's Word, which means progressing to the "strong meat" in God's Word, and becoming teachers themselves.

This teaching I'm about to cover is a "strong meat" teaching; it covers the subject of Lucifer's original rebellion in the 'old world', and why God brought this present world age we have been in since Adam, and why Lord Jesus Christ had to be born in the flesh and die on the cross, and what the future world to come is about.

And this teaching, which is definitely from written Bible Scripture, will upset many popular traditions created by men's doctrines. And thus it will upset those who prefer to stick to those comfortable traditions that men create, instead of staying in God's Word as written.

I will refer to the devil's names Lucifer to represent the time in the 'old world' before he rebelled in coveting God's Throne, and his name Satan for the time after the devil's original rebellion which is mainly for this present world time.


1. Lucifer originally was created perfect in his ways by God, and followed God.

In Ezekiel 28:12-19, God gives a parable about Lucifer using the flesh "king of Tyrus". The name Tyrus means 'rock' by the way. Recall Deut.32:31 that "...their rock is not as our Rock...". Lucifer rebelled in coveting God's Throne for himself, wanting to be The ROCK (God Himself). Ezekiel 28:13-15 God reveals that He originally created Lucifer perfect in his ways. That means Lucifer originally served God as an anointed cherub that covereth, meaning as a guard of God's Throne.

We know for sure God is pointing to Lucifer in that Ezekiel 28:12-19 section of Scripture, simply because no flesh king has ever been in God's Garden of Eden like verse 13 says about Lucifer who was in God's Garden serving Him. And no flesh man is a 'cherub that covereth' like verse 14 says, both direct pointers to Lucifer himself.

When was that then, when God originally created Lucifer perfect in his ways before he rebelled in coveting God's Throne, wanting to be GOD? I have previously mentioned the phrase 'old world' about that, which I'll get to in a moment.

Firstly, let me dispel an ancient pagan myth about Lucifer. Some pagan religions, like Zoroasterianism, holds to the idea of two equal opposing forces, good and evil. That idea does not fit God's creation and what happened with Lucifer. But because of how pagan myth is often pushed by Lucifer's children, especially in religion, some wrongly believe that Lucifer has equal amount of power like our Heavenly Father does. An even greater myth is how the deceived even believe that Lucifer was originally created evil and to do evil. That of course is not true at all per God's Word in Ezekiel 28:15.

That Ezekiel 28 Scripture is just one proof of God's Power over Lucifer, since God has said there that He will bring a fire from within Lucifer when it's time for his destruction (Ezekiel 28:18-19). In Zechariah 3:2, Satan is even referred to symbolically as a firebrand plucked out of the fire. That means like when burning wood pops and cracks, and a small cinder of wood pops out of the fire, and quickly burns out on the floor to ash. That is what The LORD thinks of Lucifer since he rebelled against Him.

In Isaiah 10, God presents another parable similar to the one in Ezekiel 28 about Lucifer. In Isaiah 10, God uses the title "the Assyrian" as a symbolic title for Satan. In Isaiah 30:31-33, God uses that title of "the Assyrian" again about Satan, and his future destruction at Tophet, the name of a place outside the walls of Jerusalem where garbage was burned perpetually, and thus symbolically represents the future "lake of fire" at the end of Revelation 20. The name Assyrian itself referred to the flesh kings of Assyria, just as the title king of Tyrus (Tyre) also did. But God's people are to be sharp enough to recognize when God is giving prophecy of events that cannot apply to any flesh man, like the "king of Tyrus" having been in God's Garden of Eden, or being an anointed cherub that covereth (Ezek.28:13-14).

In Ezekiel 31, God gives an even deeper parable about Lucifer before he rebelled using the title of "the Assyrian". That chapter contains heavy metaphor about Lucifer's original exalted status in God's Garden before he rebelled. The idea of great waters is a metaphor about God's River of Genesis 2 that was originally upon the ancient earth, and flowed out of His Eden to feed other rivers upon this earth (and that River is to return to earth at Christ's coming). That Ezekiel 31 chapter also includes the metaphor of the high cedar of Lebanon, which was used in Bible Scripture as a symbol for royalty (Ezekiel 17). It is applied to Lucifer symbolically in the 'old world' per Ezekiel 31:3.

There, I have already given enough in the above for the serious Bible student wanting the "strong meat" to learn about Lucifer's original rebellion against God. Many have no clue about God using those titles of "king of Tyrus" and "the Assyrian" as symbolic references to Lucifer himself. Isaiah 14 is yet another place where God uses this symbolic title thing, using the "king of Babylon" as a symbolic title for Satan.

 

[Davy]

(Continued...)

2. What is that 'old world' I mentioned regarding Lucifer's original rebellion against God?

To be direct, there was a previous world earth age prior to this present one we are now in today. And God destroyed that previous world earth age because of Lucifer's rebellion against Him. So I am definitely not... talking about God's destruction using a flood in Noah's day, which happened much, much later in Bible history.

That 'old world' was the time when God made His Perfect Creation in the beginning, and was when Lucifer served Him at His Altar and Throne, God having created Lucifer originally perfect in his ways per Ezekiel 28.

Apostle Peter actually covered this concept of that 'old world' which God destroyed using an earlier flood than Noah's day. Peter called it "the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:" (2 Peter 3:6). Many treat that flood to be about the one in Noah's day, but it was not, but was when God ended Lucifer's rebellion of old. Peter covered 3 world ages there in 2 Peter 3...

1st world age -- "the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:"

2 Peter 3:5-6
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
KJV

Peter said that many "willingly are ignorant" of this previous world flood back at the time when Lucifer first rebelled. Notice Peter said, "that by the word of God the heavens were of old". That is pointing directly... to Genesis 1:1 when God made His original Perfect creation in the beginning. God spoke and His creation came into existence at Genesis 1:1. Then at Genesis 1:2, the earth is shown laying a waste and a ruin with flood waters overspread upon it. Something happened in between those two Genesis 1:1 & 1:2 verses.

Now Peter said many "willingly are ignorant" of that original creation and flood that ended that old world. He cannot be pointing to the flood of Noah's day, simply because the Jews were definitely NOT willingly ignorant of the flood of Noah's day, as it is well written of in Genesis 7-8. Nor are Christians today ignorant of the flood of Noah's day.

2nd world age -- "But the heavens and the earth, which are now".

That is about this present creation we are still in today, an actual 2nd creation, or actually a 'refurbishing' of the heavens and the earth from the first world flood which God used to destroy that 'old world' which ended Lucifer's rebellion. This is actually what the Hebrew of Genesis 1:2 is revealing. And Peter shows this present 2nd world age is preserved unto destruction by God's consuming fire, meaning this present 2nd world age is temporary, and never meant to be permanent.

Genesis 1:1
is God 'original perfect' creation in the beginning; no death, no sin, Lucifer created perfect in his ways and following God, and exalted as a cedar of Lebanon in God's Garden of Eden.

Genesis 1:2
is when God brought a world-wide flood to end that previous world age when Lucifer rebelled against Him. At this point in Genesis 1:2, the earth is laying a waste and an undistinguishable ruin because of that first flood of waters covering the whole earth. The KJV phrase "without form, and void" is actually Hebrew tohu va bohu which means 'a waste' and 'a ruin'. It does NOT mean the earth was in some gaseous state before God created it. In Isaiah 45:18, God said He did not... create the earth 'tohu' (rendered in English there as "in vain").

Genesis 1:6-8
is when God began moving a portion of those waters overspread upon the earth up above the earth to form today's sky atmosphere around today's earth, called the "firmament". The remaining waters still covered the whole earth.

Genesis 1:9-10
is when God moved the remaining waters covering the whole earth, and made dry land appear again. The earth was already there underneath those waters from His original creation at Genesis 1:1.


What is taught in most Churches instead of the above? The main tradition taught about God's creation is that Genesis 1:1 is a short summary, and then the rest of the Genesis 1 chapter verses are details about that verse 1 summary. But that is not actually what God's Word reveals, because there are other Bible Scriptures that point back to these events in Genesis 1. The 2 Peter 3 chapter is just one such Scripture.

In 2 Peter 3:5, Peter points to God speaking The Word and creating the heavens and the earth, saying they were created of old. That is about God's original perfect creation of old, a 1st world earth age. Peter even links the earth standing out of the water, and in the water with those events of Genesis 1:6-10. And God's people in Old Testament time and in Peter's day, were definitely not willingly ignorant of the flood of Noah's day, so Peter could not... have been pointing to the flood of Noah's time.

(Continued...)

 

[Davy]

(Continued...)

3. How... was God's original Perfect creation in the beginning at Genesis 1:1 different than His refurbishing of the heavens and earth after the flood destruction at Genesis 1:2 with the earth laying a waste "without form, and void"?

Have you ever thought back to when God created Lucifer perfect in his ways like God said in Ezekiel 28? What kind of time do you think that 1st world earth age was like before Lucifer rebelled against God?

Per 1 John 3:8, Apostle John said the devil (Lucifer) sinned from the beginning. And for this purpose The Son of God was manifest so that He would destroy the works of the devil. That means Lucifer is who was the very first one that sinned, ever. Now Adam and Eve were the first in the flesh to sin; but Lucifer when he coveted God's Throne and drew a third of the angels to earth in rebellion with him, that was the very first sin against God. And thus the concept and power of 'death' has been assigned to the devil (Hebrews 2:14). Likewise, in final, the concept of death shall be destroyed along with the devil when he is finally cast into the future "lake of fire" (Revelation 20:10-15). The Revelation 21:4 Scripture even reveals in the future new heavens and new earth, there will be no more death.

That has to also mean no more sin in that future world to come, for the penalty for sin is death (Romans 5:12; Romans 6:23; James 1:15).

But what about the time in the 'old world', before... Lucifer sinned against God? Would there have existed death back at that time, before sin? I say no, just as in the future world to come there will no longer be sin nor death. Might be hard to grasp, especially if all one can do is think with their 'fleshy mind'. The world of Spirit living upon this earth with The Father and His Son Christ Jesus is our true Home. We should never forget that.

What I am trying to show you is there is a spiritual bridge... between the time of the 1st world earth age before Lucifer rebelled, and the future 3rd world earth age called the new heavens and a new earth.

Before Lucifer rebelled there was no sin, no death, and God's River and His Garden of Eden existed upon this earth (per Genesis 2), and even fed 4 named rivers upon this ancient earth (again, Gen.2). That means the full Godhead once lived HERE, on this earth! And Revelation 21 & 22 shows He is coming back to live upon this earth with His faithful, re-establishing His River of the Waters of Life upon this earth, a LITERAL flowing River, and He and His Son Jesus Christ will dwell with His faithful believers. That world to come also means no more death, no more sin, and no more SEA. What? What's that about you think? (see Revelation 21:1).

Today's earth, this 2nd world earth age, has waters covering about 70% of the earth's surface. Yet in the future new heavens and a new earth per Revelation 21:1, it says there will be NO MORE SEA. So where are all those waters upon this earth going to go? And what is going to water the earth's plants and animals in that future Kingdom on this old earth?

Did you know there are fossils of tropical plant and animal life that exist at both the North and South Poles? The woolly mammoths found in the Arctic were buried frozen in ice still with 'undecayed'... plant vegetation in their mouths, and in their stomachs. That means they were caught grazing in a green field in the Arctic zone, and were instantly frozen while grazing!

What could have caused that condition at the earth's Poles that fossils reveal was once lush and green?

(Continued...)

 

[Davy]

4. Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
KJV

In Jeremiah 4:23-28, God gave a warning to the "house of Judah" when they had fallen away from Him, and He was getting ready to send Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon upon them and Neb would destroy Solomon's temple and the city of Jerusalem. Prior to that God tried to remind them of a previous... destruction that He had done upon this ancient earth.

Jer 4:23-28
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

There it is again, that Genesis 1:2 phrase "without form, and void", which means the earth had become a waste and a ruin per Hebrew tohu va bohu. Thus the earth and those heavens were already there, had already been created before, which is also what Genesis 1:2 is showing with flood waters overspread upon the whole earth.

24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

Uh, so that time of the earth being "without form, and void" already had created mountains and hills?

Yes! because Hebrew tohu ("without form") is a word about something that was once in a good condition, going into a bad condition, or to nothing. (use your Strong's Exhaustive Concordance to look up that Hebrew word tohu and compare how the KJV translators brought it into English in the various verses of The Old Testament.)

25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

God is pointing back to the destruction at Genesis 1:2 with the earth laying a waste and a ruin by waters of a flood that destroyed Lucifer's rebellion of old.


26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by His fierce anger.

What? That 1st world earth age before Lucifer rebelled contained cities?? Yes! May be hard to believe, but yes, the concept of nations is part of God's creation, not man's. Even after Christ's future return the nations will still exist, and will also continue into God's future new heavens and a new earth time. In Ezekiel 31, a parable given about Lucifer before he rebelled, when he was exalted by God, it says he was over "all great nations". Still need more proof of this?

What timing do you think the following Scripture in 'red' was about?

Rev 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
KJV

Per Rev.12:9 we are told that title of the "dragon" is simply another title for Satan himself.

When... do you think Satan as that "red dragon" drew those one third of stars of heaven (put for angels) and cast them to earth with him? That was about Lucifer's original rebellion against God in that 'old world' (the 1st earth world age).

Did you notice that along with THAT TIME, is mentioned a beast system Lucifer rebelled with back then, that had "seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns"?? Did you bother to notice the beast system of the next Revelation 13:1 chapter, which is meant for the end of this present world, is going to have "ten crowns" instead of seven?? Lord Jesus by that revealed that Lucifer's original rebellion in the beginning included a beast system of NATIONS that had seven heads, ten horns, but seven crowns. And the subject of nations is... part of the beast kingdom prophecy per Revelation 17:15 where Jesus showed the sea of waters represents peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.

Ezek 31:16
16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
KJV

Continuing in Jeremiah 4...

Jer.4
27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
KJV

The above verses is God speaking of this present 2nd world earth age after He had destroyed the 1st one with a flood of waters because of Lucifer's original rebellion.

Did you know that God placed this present 2nd world earth age into "bondage of corruption"? That is what the above Jeremiah 4:27-28 verses are about...

God would make today's present earth age in a desolate condition, but still not a full end of this earth. "But I thought today's creation is... perfect, and beautiful that God created?", many might say. It is... still beautiful, but it is definitely not perfect. Like God said above, for this reason, His having causing the earth to go into a desolate condition without making a full end, for that cause, the earth mourns.

Did you know today's earth mourns, seeking a release from the bondage God placed it in? Look at today's weather system, what causes today's violent storms? Because there are sky holes in today's atmosphere around the earth, the sun beads down upon the earth creating warm air that rises, along with water evaporation that rises, and at the same time cold air from higher altitudes falls, and meets that warm air, and that begins the atmosphere swirling, and often creating violent storms, tornadoes, hurricanes, cyclones, hail, etc.

All that would not exist IF... all the sky holes around the earth were plugged to form a complete protective cloud canopy around the whole earth. That would be a type of greenhouse system around the earth, where tropical plants and animal life would exist even at the earth's Poles! Could that have been how God's original Perfect creation in the beginning was, before Lucifer rebelled? I am almost certain it was. And like Paul Harvey used to say, for some of you who understand this, "now you know the rest of the story", because Rev.21:1 says in God's future new heavens and a new earth, there shall be no more sea! That suggests to me that all the waters upon todays earth are going back UP... into the cloud atmosphere around this earth, and plug all those holes in the sky, how it likely was in God's original perfect creation!

But for today, during this present 2nd world earth age, this earth mourns, seeking a release from the "bondage of corruption" which God placed it in, along with us who also our spirit within us mourns. Apostle Paul well covered this in Romans 8:18-25 comparing today's imperfect creation state with the future world to come. And it links directly with those above Jeremiah 4:27-28 verse subject about the earth mourns.

 

[Davy]

5. Apostle Paul showed that God placed this present 2nd earth age re-furbished creation into bondage of corruption.


Rom 8:18-25
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Paul begins with comparing this present world earth age with the glory of the future world to come. Notice he also points to that glory being "revealed in us" in that future time. He will explain how that is further down in Romans 8.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

That word "creature" is the Greek word ktisis, and means 'the creation'. In all the examples here of "creature", it is that same Greek word ktisis, including as "creation" in verse 22 which the KJV translators properly brought to English in that verse.

The expectation of the creation is waiting for the manifesting of the "sons of God"? Who's that? We in Christ Jesus are now called "sons of God" (1 John 3:2; John 1:12). That title is referring to the glory of the future world to come when Jesus returns.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

The creation was made subject to vanity?? When did that happen to God's creation??

It happened at Genesis 1:2 when God ended that 'old world' when Lucifer first rebelled and fell. That "without form, and void" phrase we discovered in Jeremiah 4 that it really means the earth had become a waste and a ruin and all the mountains and hills moved at God's fierce anger. And for that reason, the earth today mourns, and the heavens above be black (storms). That is the "vanity" Paul is pointing to that God placed His creation in for this present 2nd world earth age that began at Genesis 1:3 forward. (God's original 1st perfect creation was "in the beginning", per Genesis 1:1. Lucifer rebelled sometime after verse Genesis 1:1, and God ended His original perfect creation because of that, and God brought today's 2nd one starting at Genesis 1:3.)

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

When does that "glorious liberty of the children of God" come? Is it now for those in Christ? Many think so, but the main tribulation that Christ's saints will experience in this present world is still yet to come today. Paul is pointing to the future after Jesus has returned, and He begins releasing His creation from that "bondage of corruption" that He placed it in for this 2nd world earth age.


22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

There's that same Greek word ktsis rendered "creation" this time. Did you not know that today's creation "groaneth and travaileth in pain" even now? Have you not read Scripture like Isaiah 11 and Revelation 21 which gives us clues of how the world to come is going to be different than today's creation?

We are brought up to believe that God's creation of this present world time is a perfect creation when it is not. Paul just showed us it is not, because he said God placed His creation for this present world into "vanity", and in "bondage of corruption", so that it mourns and seeks a release from its present condition. How many have even taken time to think about that?

About 70% of the earth man can't live upon because of being covered by oceans and seas. Another portion is desert wilderness. Even the North and South Poles are not hospitable to our required living conditions. Don't get me wrong, much of God's creation today truly is beautiful. But how much of it can we apply that to? This present earth condition is in bondage to corruption like Paul said above, which means this present creation is not... perfect. Everything decays and dies. We are even taught the concept of 'survival of the fittest' is a part of God's perfect natural creation! It is not, as in the world to come, the lion will eat straw like an ox (Isaiah 11:7). Death will no more exist in the world to come (Rev.21).


23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Not only does God's creation groan within itself, but so do we, our spirit inside our flesh body groans seeking its release with the future adoption, i.e., the redemption of our spirit body (remember 1 Cor.15 where Paul taught the resurrection body and change is to a "spiritual body", not... another flesh body like today's.)

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
KJV

If you don't yet see... what is hoped for, then it means you still wait for it to come. That's all Apostle Paul is saying with those 2 above verses.

Now think about Paul's Message in that Romans 8:18-25 Scripture. Since God placed His creation into "vanity", into "bondage of corruption", then might that mean God's original creation before was NOT in that bondage condition??

YES!!! That takes us back to Genesis 1:1 when God originally created the heavens and the earth. It points to Genesis 1:1 having been His PERFECT CREATION, a time before Lucifer rebelled when he followed God; a time with no death, no sin, when all the sons of God shouted for joy (Job 38:7).

Then at Genesis 1:2 the earth is shown in a condition of vanity, as a waste and ruin (Hebrew tohu va bohu), with waters of a flood covering the whole earth. That 2nd verse is an 'after the fact' view of God's destruction of that 'old world' when Lucifer rebelled. The Jeremiah 4:23-28 Scripture is a link to that time of Genesis 1:2 with the earth laying a waste.


One might enjoy Derek Prince's Bible studies covering many of these things:

 

[Mark51]

The new babe in Christ is rarely if ever taught about Lucifer's original rebellion in the 'old world'. And most Churches today continue to hide this Bible teaching from their congregations, because they are told to keep the members on the 'milk' of God's Word, and not the "strong meat" (Hebrews 5).

It is obvious per Hebrews 5, that the Christian is to eventually mature in understanding in God's Word, which means progressing to the "strong meat" in God's Word, and becoming teachers themselves.

This teaching I'm about to cover is a "strong meat" teaching; it covers the subject of Lucifer's original rebellion in the 'old world', and why God brought this present world age we have been in since Adam, and why Lord Jesus Christ had to be born in the flesh and die on the cross, and what the future world to come is about.

And this teaching, which is definitely from written Bible Scripture, will upset many popular traditions created by men's doctrines. And thus it will upset those who prefer to stick to those comfortable traditions that men create, instead of staying in God's Word as written.

I will refer to the devil's names Lucifer to represent the time in the 'old world' before he rebelled in coveting God's Throne, and his name Satan for the time after the devil's original rebellion which is mainly for this present world time.


1. Lucifer originally was created perfect in his ways by God, and followed God.

In Ezekiel 28:12-19, God gives a parable about Lucifer using the flesh "king of Tyrus". The name Tyrus means 'rock' by the way. Recall Deut.32:31 that "...their rock is not as our Rock...". Lucifer rebelled in coveting God's Throne for himself, wanting to be The ROCK (God Himself). Ezekiel 28:13-15 God reveals that He originally created Lucifer perfect in his ways. That means Lucifer originally served God as an anointed cherub that covereth, meaning as a guard of God's Throne.

We know for sure God is pointing to Lucifer in that Ezekiel 28:12-19 section of Scripture, simply because no flesh king has ever been in God's Garden of Eden like verse 13 says about Lucifer who was in God's Garden serving Him. And no flesh man is a 'cherub that covereth' like verse 14 says, both direct pointers to Lucifer himself.

When was that then, when God originally created Lucifer perfect in his ways before he rebelled in coveting God's Throne, wanting to be GOD? I have previously mentioned the phrase 'old world' about that, which I'll get to in a moment.

Firstly, let me dispel an ancient pagan myth about Lucifer. Some pagan religions, like Zoroasterianism, holds to the idea of two equal opposing forces, good and evil. That idea does not fit God's creation and what happened with Lucifer. But because of how pagan myth is often pushed by Lucifer's children, especially in religion, some wrongly believe that Lucifer has equal amount of power like our Heavenly Father does. An even greater myth is how the deceived even believe that Lucifer was originally created evil and to do evil. That of course is not true at all per God's Word in Ezekiel 28:15.

That Ezekiel 28 Scripture is just one proof of God's Power over Lucifer, since God has said there that He will bring a fire from within Lucifer when it's time for his destruction (Ezekiel 28:18-19). In Zechariah 3:2, Satan is even referred to symbolically as a firebrand plucked out of the fire. That means like when burning wood pops and cracks, and a small cinder of wood pops out of the fire, and quickly burns out on the floor to ash. That is what The LORD thinks of Lucifer since he rebelled against Him.

In Isaiah 10, God presents another parable similar to the one in Ezekiel 28 about Lucifer. In Isaiah 10, God uses the title "the Assyrian" as a symbolic title for Satan. In Isaiah 30:31-33, God uses that title of "the Assyrian" again about Satan, and his future destruction at Tophet, the name of a place outside the walls of Jerusalem where garbage was burned perpetually, and thus symbolically represents the future "lake of fire" at the end of Revelation 20. The name Assyrian itself referred to the flesh kings of Assyria, just as the title king of Tyrus (Tyre) also did. But God's people are to be sharp enough to recognize when God is giving prophecy of events that cannot apply to any flesh man, like the "king of Tyrus" having been in God's Garden of Eden, or being an anointed cherub that covereth (Ezek.28:13-14).

In Ezekiel 31, God gives an even deeper parable about Lucifer before he rebelled using the title of "the Assyrian". That chapter contains heavy metaphor about Lucifer's original exalted status in God's Garden before he rebelled. The idea of great waters is a metaphor about God's River of Genesis 2 that was originally upon the ancient earth, and flowed out of His Eden to feed other rivers upon this earth (and that River is to return to earth at Christ's coming). That Ezekiel 31 chapter also includes the metaphor of the high cedar of Lebanon, which was used in Bible Scripture as a symbol for royalty (Ezekiel 17). It is applied to Lucifer symbolically in the 'old world' per Ezekiel 31:3.

There, I have already given enough in the above for the serious Bible student wanting the "strong meat" to learn about Lucifer's original rebellion against God. Many have no clue about God using those titles of "king of Tyrus" and "the Assyrian" as symbolic references to Lucifer himself. Isaiah 14 is yet another place where God uses this symbolic title thing, using the "king of Babylon" as a symbolic title for Satan.

How do you understand that Satan/Devil (deceiverresister) is named Lucifer. It is not mentioned in the Bible.

 

[keithr]

To be direct, there was a previous world earth age prior to this present one we are now in today. And God destroyed that previous world earth age because of Lucifer's rebellion against Him. So I am definitely not... talking about God's destruction using a flood in Noah's day, which happened much, much later in Bible history.

I find that impossible to believe because it is not in harmony with god's word:

Exodus 20 (WEB):

(1) God spoke all these words, saying,​

(2) “I am Yahweh your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.​

(11) for in six days Yahweh made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore Yahweh blessed the Sabbath day, and made it holy.​

Genesis 1:26-31 (WEB):

(26) God said, “Let’s make man in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the sky, and over the livestock, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”​

(27) God created man in his own image. In God’s image he created him; male and female he created them.​

...​

(31) God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. There was evening and there was morning, a sixth day.​

Genesis 2:4-8 (WEB):

(4) This is the history of the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Yahweh God made the earth and the heavens.​

(5) No plant of the field was yet in the earth, and no herb of the field had yet sprung up; for Yahweh God had not caused it to rain on the earth. There was not a man to till the ground,​

(6) but a mist went up from the earth, and watered the whole surface of the ground.​

(7) Yahweh God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.​

(8) Yahweh God planted a garden eastward, in Eden, and there he put the man whom he had formed.​

So God says that He created the heavens and the earth in six days, and that He created Adam on the sixth day. That does not leave any time for a "previous world age" prior to the creation of Adam.

 

[Davy]

How do you understand that Satan/Devil (deceiverresister) is named Lucifer. It is not mentioned in the Bible.

Well, the word Lucifer actually is mentioned, in several English translations of The Bible...

Isa 14:12
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
KJV

The KJV is my main Bible I use, but I do also have a 1st Edition King James Version Bible where the translators put notes in a side margin next to the Bible text. In the above Isaiah 14:12 verse, they put an alternate reading for their translation of Hebrew heylel into English, as "O Day Starre".

Other Bible versions left the Hebrew word meaning, heylel - the morning star. Below is an example of how other Bible translations to English rendered it...

Isa 14:12
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, that didst lay low the nations!
ASV

Isa 14:12
12
How great is your fall from heaven, O shining one, son of the morning! How are you cut down to the earth, low among the dead bodies!
BBE

Isa 14:12
12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
ESV

Isa 14:12
How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of dawn! You are cut down to the ground, conqueror of nations!
(from The Lexham English Bible, Fourth Edition <NL><NL>Copyright © 2010, 2012 Logos Bible Software.)

Isa 14:12
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Webster

Isa 14:12
12 How hast thou fallen from the heavens, O shining one, son of the dawn! Thou hast been cut down to earth, O weakener of nations.
YLT

The actual word Lucifer means 'light-bearer', or pointing to the idea of a 'bright star'. Hebrew heylel points to the 'morning star' idea, of which ONLY Lord Jesus is The True Morning Star (per Revelation).

St. Jerome I believe was first to suggest the title Lucifer for the devil involving Satan's fall. Other Bible scholars have followed that, and that's why I also make the distinction of the name Lucifer for the devil's original fall from heaven, but Satan which means 'adversary', particularly his having become The Adversary revealed in God's Garden tempting Eve, which was after his earlier fall from heaven.

 

[Davy]

I find that impossible to believe because it is not in harmony with god's word:

Yet my statement is... in harmony with The Word of God. One simply needs to use their brain just a little to understand what God's Word is teaching about it specifically in those many Bible Scripture REFERENCES I gave, which YOU SAID NOTHING ABOUT.

ANYONE can just throw out a bunch irrelevant Bible verses and then claim this or that is not so like you did, and the Biblically illiterate and those who cannot think for their selves just might believe it. That's to their disadvantage, because The LORD would not have put those Scriptures in His Word which I covered if He didn't want us to know about those events.

 

[Davy]

So God says that He created the heavens and the earth in six days, and that He created Adam on the sixth day. That does not leave any time for a "previous world age" prior to the creation of Adam.

You'll find all sorts of places on the Internet to argue about the 6 days of God's creation of whether it was 6 each 24 hour periods, or 6 each 1,000 years periods, since Peter said a 'day' to God is like a thousand years to us. Yet that does not apply to the events written in Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 which happened PRIOR to the START of those 6 days.

Even an 'honest'... look at what Apostle Paul taught below about God's creation that God placed the creation "subject to vanity" and in "bondage of corruption" ought to make you ask just when was His creation ever NOT... in that vanity or bondage condition.

In other words, who isn't wise enough to understand that God made His creation in that state, then what kind of condition might it have been in before He did that? In others, using common sense, it means today's creation in that vanity and bondage of corruption state was not His 'original' creation in the beginning.

Rom 8:20-22
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
KJV

 

[keithr]

You'll find all sorts of places on the Internet to argue about the 6 days of God's creation of whether it was 6 each 24 hour periods, or 6 each 1,000 years periods, since Peter said a 'day' to God is like a thousand years to us.

Yes, I was taught that too, but I no longer believe it. I believe that God declares that He made heaven and earth in six days, particularly from Exodus 20:9-11 (WEB):

(9) You shall labor six days, and do all your work,​

(10) but the seventh day is a Sabbath to Yahweh your God. You shall not do any work in it, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your livestock, nor your stranger who is within your gates;​

(11) for in six days Yahweh made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore Yahweh blessed the Sabbath day, and made it holy.​

Exodus 20:11 (Brenton's Septuagint):

(11) For in six days the Lord made the heaven and the earth, and the sea and all things in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it.​

Moses records this as being the words that God spoke (Exodus 20:1 - "God spoke all these words, saying,"). Every occurrence of the word "day" is a translation of the same Hebrew word 'yome', of which Strong's says "From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or ...". God tells the Israelites that they should work for six days and then not work on the seventh day, just as God worked, making the heaven and the earth, for six days, and then He rested on the seventh day. Therefore God made the seventh day holy. He didn't make a 1,000 year period of time Holy, it was just a single day.

Yet that does not apply to the events written in Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 which happened PRIOR to the START of those 6 days.

There is nothing to suggest a long time gap between verse 1 and 2. God did not create light until verse 3, so if there was a period of time before verse 2, then it was a time of complete darkness. No vegetation was created until verse 11, and all animals and Adam and Eve were created later. As I said, "I find that impossible to believe" (in a "previous world earth age prior to this present one") "because it is not in harmony with god's word".

 

[talons]

St. Jerome I believe was first to suggest the title Lucifer for the devil involving Satan's fall. Other Bible scholars have followed that, and that's why I also make the distinction of the name Lucifer for the devil's original fall from heaven, but Satan which means 'adversary', particularly his having become The Adversary revealed in God's Garden tempting Eve, which was after his earlier fall from heaven.

Bad suggestion on St. Jerome's part .

THE NAME LUCIFER HAS NEVER BELONGED TO SATAN

 

[PGS11]

Lucifer was Satan’s name before his fall from heaven. It literally means “morning star.” Ezekiel 28:13-15 it gives us this picture of Lucifer before his rebellion against God

Ezekiel 28:13-15

13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.[a]
Your settings and mountings[b] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.

Isaiah 14:12-15 gives an account of his fall: “How you are fallen from heaven, O shining star, son of the morning! You have been thrown down to the earth, you who destroyed the nations of the world. For you said to yourself, ‘I will ascend to heaven and set my throne above God’s stars. I will preside on the mountain of the gods far away in the north. I will climb to the highest heavens and be like the Most High.’ Instead, you will be brought down to the place of the dead, down to its lowest depths.”Lucifer became Satan after his fall.Lucifer was a perfectly beautiful Cherub before he rebelled and was thrown out of heaven (Ezekiel 28:14, NIV) and his name changed to Satan.

The Story of Lucifer - How Did He Fall and Become Satan?

Lucifer’s fall is described in two key Old Testament chapters—Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14. Let’s briefly look at both of these and better understand how Lucifer became satan.

www.christianity.com

 

[Davy]

Yes, I was taught that too, but I no longer believe it. I believe that God declares that He made heaven and earth in six days, particularly from Exodus 20:9-11 (WEB):

(9) You shall labor six days, and do all your work,​

(10) but the seventh day is a Sabbath to Yahweh your God. You shall not do any work in it, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your livestock, nor your stranger who is within your gates;​

(11) for in six days Yahweh made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore Yahweh blessed the Sabbath day, and made it holy.​

Exodus 20:11 (Brenton's Septuagint):

(11) For in six days the Lord made the heaven and the earth, and the sea and all things in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it.​

But you still have not defined what a 'day' is equal to according to God's viewpoint. The reason I raise this point is because arguments over the 'day' idea really doesn't disprove anything that I covered from Genesis, nor Jeremiah 4, nor Romans 8, nor Ezekiel 28, nor 2 Peter 3, which all relate to God having destroyed the 'old world' when Lucifer first rebelled against Him.

So actually you are out in left field, and not really addressing the Bible Scriptures I've covered in my posts.

 

[Davy]

Bad suggestion on St. Jerome's part .

THE NAME LUCIFER HAS NEVER BELONGED TO SATAN

Boy do I strongly disagree with you on that, because to suggest that name "Lucifer" in the KJV of Isaiah 14:12 is not about the devil, then just who... is it about then?

And IF... you say Jesus Christ, then I KNOW you are on the wrong path, and are into OCCULTISM.

 

[talons]

Boy do I strongly disagree with you on that, because to suggest that name "Lucifer" in the KJV of Isaiah 14:12 is not about the devil, then just who... is it about then?

Who it is about IS the king of Babylon . The Hebrew word heylel does not translate to the name Lucifer . Did you read all of the article at the link I posted ?
You need to read it all thoroughly .

4That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

And IF... you say Jesus Christ, then I KNOW you are on the wrong path, and are into OCCULTISM.

No worries there .

 

[keithr]

But you still have not defined what a 'day' is equal to according to God's viewpoint.

I woud have thought it was obvious from the simple text that I quoted. When God said, "Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work", He was surely implying normal days of 24 hours. Surely you don't think God was telling the Israelites that they should work for six thousand years and then cease from work for a thousand years!

And in his very next sentence he says "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it", using the exact same Hebrew word for 'day' as He used in the previous sentence. Theefore I believe God when He says that He created heaven and earth, and all living things on the earth, in six normal days of 24 hours.

The reason I raise this point is because arguments over the 'day' idea really doesn't disprove anything that I covered from Genesis, nor Jeremiah 4, nor Romans 8, nor Ezekiel 28, nor 2 Peter 3, which all relate to God having destroyed the 'old world' when Lucifer first rebelled against Him.

If God did as He claimed and created the earth and all life on it in six days, then it is not possible for there to have been an "old world" as you think there was. Therefore God's words in Exodus 20 disprove that idea, and your interpretation of the verses that you quoted must be incorrect.

So actually you are out in left field, and not really addressing the Bible Scriptures I've covered in my posts.

Having pointed out that your "old world" idea cannot be true because it is not in harmony with God's declaration, I saw no point in wasting any of my time delving into the interpretation of all the other verses that you quoted. Once you head off on a tangent because of an incorrect interpretation/assumption then you are heading in completely the wrong direction. I was pointing out that you were heading in the wrong direction right from the beginning.

Claiming that Peter was not refering to the flood in Noah's day in 2 Peter 3:6 and therefore assuming that God destroyed an unmentioned "old world" with a flood, is ridiculous reasoning!

 

[Hobie]

You'll find all sorts of places on the Internet to argue about the 6 days of God's creation of whether it was 6 each 24 hour periods, or 6 each 1,000 years periods, since Peter said a 'day' to God is like a thousand years to us. Yet that does not apply to the events written in Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 which happened PRIOR to the START of those 6 days.

Even an 'honest'... look at what Apostle Paul taught below about God's creation that God placed the creation "subject to vanity" and in "bondage of corruption" ought to make you ask just when was His creation ever NOT... in that vanity or bondage condition.

In other words, who isn't wise enough to understand that God made His creation in that state, then what kind of condition might it have been in before He did that? In others, using common sense, it means today's creation in that vanity and bondage of corruption state was not His 'original' creation in the beginning.

Rom 8:20-22
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
KJV

We cannot limit God to just this world and the heaven 'atmosphere ' above it. God had a whole universe to work with, and this is all He made. Of course not, when we get to heaven we will see all the universe and see what God has made. We will be amazed to say the least...

 

[Davy]

Who it is about IS the king of Babylon . The Hebrew word heylel does not translate to the name Lucifer .

Yeah, I already knew Hebrew heylel does not translate to Lucifer. It instead means 'morning star'. And yes, the devil also is the SYMBOLIC "king of Babylon" which God is using there in Isaiah 14, just like He used the "king of Tyrus" to point to the devil in Ezekiel 28, and how He also used the title of "the Assyrian" to point o the devil in Isaiah 30:31-33, because no flesh born man has yet to be sentenced to perish in that future Tophet, put for the "lake of fire". Only Satan and his angels so far have, none else have been sentenced to perish yet.

But the KJV translators put "Lucifer" in that Isaiah 14:12 verse because they UNDERSTOOD that God was actually repeating what the devil had said, declaring himself as GOD and CHRIST, The True Morning Star (per Rev.22). So obviously to prevent confusion about who God was really pointing to, because Christ ONLY is The True Morning Star, and there is only ONE, the KJV translators put the name "Lucifer" there to show that is who God was mocking, using Lucifer's own words!

In the side margin of the 1st Edition 1611 KJV Bible, the translators put an alternate reading as "O Day Starre". So evidently it is YOU... that FAILED TO READ WHAT ALL I WROTE! (So much for your intended consternation of me not reading your article.)

 

[talons]

Yeah, I already knew Hebrew heylel does not translate to Lucifer. It instead means 'morning star'. And yes, the devil also is the SYMBOLIC "king of Babylon" which God is using there in Isaiah 14, just like He used the "king of Tyrus" to point to the devil in Ezekiel 28, and how He also used the title of "the Assyrian" to point o the devil in Isaiah 30:31-33, because no flesh born man has yet to be sentenced to perish in that future Tophet, put for the "lake of fire". Only Satan and his angels so far have, none else have been sentenced to perish yet.

But the KJV translators put "Lucifer" in that Isaiah 14:12 verse because they UNDERSTOOD that God was actually repeating what the devil had said, declaring himself as GOD and CHRIST, The True Morning Star (per Rev.22). So obviously to prevent confusion about who God was really pointing to, because Christ ONLY is The True Morning Star, and there is only ONE, the KJV translators put the name "Lucifer" there to show that is who God was mocking, using Lucifer's own words!

In the side margin of the 1st Edition 1611 KJV Bible, the translators put an alternate reading as "O Day Starre". So evidently it is YOU... that FAILED TO READ WHAT ALL I WROTE! (So much for your intended consternation of me not reading your article.)

Your grip on the KJV is admirable but it will come with it's own set of problems . There is no "Lucifer " but there is a morning star , but oh well . We see it differently , have a good day !