Looking realistically at ourselves.

[ElieG12]

In the first century, Christians who learned directly from Jesus had to teach the same things they received. Those who learned from them, in turn, had to teach based on those same early teachings. Those were the received truths that had to be preached before the end.

When those truths were no longer the same because people began to speculate and philosophize on their own, trying to become teachers themselves instead of reviewing what they had already received, the church became corrupted. Religious arguments, sects, divisions, lies disguised as truth, struggles for power, etc. arose.

Jesus Christ said that he who does not gather with Him, scatters (Luke 11:23).

Have you ever wondered if spreading your own speculations, interpreting the Bible in your own particular and unique way, is actually scattering?

 

[Hey You!]

Passive Aggressive ~ by ReverendRV * August 5

Psalm 55:21 KJV; The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords.

Our verse is a prime example of a behavior known as Passive Aggressiveness. Its definition is “Marked by, or displaying behavior characterized by expressing negative feelings, resentment, and aggression in an unassertive passive way”. ~ Our words can be flattering on the outside but on the inside we’re ready to fight. Have you heard the example of a little child who is told to sit in his chair but doesn’t want to; he sits down but on the inside he’s standing up in spite of you. I’m sure we all know what Passive Aggressiveness is and admit we’ve all been there; but isn’t it the lesser of two evils? Maybe, but maybe not; what a man thinks about himself, that’s what he is. The Heart is more deceitful than anything and is desperately wicked; as we shall soon see. But as deceitful as the Heart is, it reveals the ‘true you’. The only thing your Heart can prove to you is what you are really like when you can’t have your way, and someone else’s way wins the day; then you become Passive Aggressive, right?

Is Passive Aggressiveness the same as Lying on the inside? Have you been told to do something and did it; but begrudgingly? What are you doing in your heart that you want to do in real life, but can’t? Have you ever committed Adultery? Jesus said that if you have looked at a woman Lustfully, you’ve committed Adultery with her in your Heart; that’s Passive Aggressive molestation! Have you ever Hated anyone? Jesus said if you’ve Hated your brother, you’ve Murdered him in your Heart. Lying, Adultery and Murder are but three of the Ten Commandments, do we need to go on? If God judged by his standard, would you be innocent or guilty? Would you go to Heaven; or will you go to Hell?

God Saves Sinners! For God so Loves the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting Life instead. Jesus Christ is God Incarnate and he lived a Holy life which pleased God his Father, by keeping the Ten Commandments his whole life. He paid the price that our Sin deserves by dying on the Cross of Rome, and he arose from the grave for all who believe. We’re Saved by the Grace, Mercy and Forgiveness of God through our Faith in the risen Christ, without our Works lest we boast. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God; and start going to a Bible believing Church. ~ Christians can be Passive Aggressive without even knowing it. If a Christian is inactive in supporting the spreading of the Gospel, God looks at it as if we’re proactively scattering Lost Souls; “Get out of my way, I’m going to Church!”. The Lost are like cordwood which the Devil stacks by the fires of Hell; our inactivity means we proactively stack the Devil’s cordwood for him! ~ Will you remain Passive Aggressive toward God now that you know this?

Matthew 12:30 NIV; "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

 

[GodsGrace]

In the first century, Christians who learned directly from Jesus had to teach the same things they received. Those who learned from them, in turn, had to teach based on those same early teachings. Those were the received truths that had to be preached before the end.

When those truths were no longer the same because people began to speculate and philosophize on their own, trying to become teachers themselves instead of reviewing what they had already received, the church became corrupted. Religious arguments, sects, divisions, lies disguised as truth, struggles for power, etc. arose.

Jesus Christ said that he who does not gather with Him, scatters (Luke 11:23).

Have you ever wondered if spreading your own speculations, interpreting the Bible in your own particular and unique way, is actually scattering?

Of course it's scattering.
We're supposed to be of one mind as both Jesus and Paul stated.
Philippians 2:2
Galatians 3:28
1 Peter 3:8
1 Corinthians 1:10
I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

So here's the problem:
I believe I'm a mainline Christian.
I read odd beliefs on these forums.
But they think their right.
And I think I'm right.

So does it matter who's right?
Should we not be posting to each other and just let everyone believe what they will?

Here's the question Elie:

How can we know who has the truth?

 

[ElieG12]

Of course it's scattering.
We're supposed to be of one mind as both Jesus and Paul stated.
Philippians 2:2
Galatians 3:28
1 Peter 3:8
1 Corinthians 1:10
I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

So here's the problem:
I believe I'm a mainline Christian.
I read odd beliefs on these forums.
But they think their right.
And I think I'm right.

So does it matter who's right?
Should we not be posting to each other and just let everyone believe what they will?

Here's the question Elie:

How can we know who has the truth?

I think doing the same Bereans did can help:

Acts 17:10 Immediately by night the brothers sent both Paul and Silas to Beroea. On arriving, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they accepted the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. 12 Therefore, many of them became believers, and so did quite a few of the reputable Greek women as well as some of the men.

If Jesus said that the world would come to know the truth from His messengers, what prevents us from recognizing that we should be taught, rather than speculating on our own?

If we are not doctors, we should not advise someone to take any medicine; we might kill him.

 

[GodsGrace]

I think doing the same Bereans did can help:

Acts 17:10 Immediately by night the brothers sent both Paul and Silas to Beroea. On arriving, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they accepted the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. 12 Therefore, many of them became believers, and so did quite a few of the reputable Greek women as well as some of the men.

If Jesus said that the world would come to know the truth from His messengers, what prevents us from recognizing that we should be taught, rather than speculating on our own?

If we are not doctors, we should not advise someone to take any medicine; we might kill him.

Well, I'll tell you how I learned.
I attended 3 different denominations and they all 3 taught basically the same...
slight differences.

Then I come across really different ideas.
Like OSAS for instance.
Verses are posted but they don't seem to agree with the basis for the NT.
So now what?
Some years ago I decided to study the Early Church Fathers.
These are the men that the Apostles taught...
and then those taught by them.

Much like what you stated in your opening statement/post.

Does this sound like a good method to you?
What do you think of going to only one church all your Christian life and just believing what they tell you?

 

[ElieG12]

Well, I'll tell you how I learned.
I attended 3 different denominations and they all 3 taught basically the same...
slight differences.

Then I come across really different ideas.
Like OSAS for instance.
Verses are posted but they don't seem to agree with the basis for the NT.
So now what?
Some years ago I decided to study the Early Church Fathers.
These are the men that the Apostles taught...
and then those taught by them.

Much like what you stated in your opening statement/post.

Does this sound like a good method to you?
What do you think of going to only one church all your Christian life and just believing what they tell you?

I understand what you say. Thanks for sharing your personal experience.

In my case, since I learned from Jehovah's witnesses, I quickly realized that the teaching of their Governing Body was actually in agreement with what the Bible teaches on the hottest issues in the modern "Christian" world.

But the sheer number of independent "teachers" putting forth their own private ideas and interpretations of the Bible on the Internet is frightening.

 

[GodsGrace]

I understand what you say. Thanks for sharing your personal experience.

In my case, since I learned from Jehovah's witnesses, I quickly realized that the teaching of their Governing Body was actually in agreement with what the Bible teaches on the hottest issues in the modern "Christian" world.

But the sheer number of independent "teachers" putting forth their own private ideas and interpretations of the Bible on the Internet is frightening.

I agree 100%

I would encourage all to study some church history but most will not.

Going to only one church, in your case Kingdom Hall, would not be my advice,,,but we each must follow our path.

I'll say this,,, I don't agree with some doctrine of the witnesses, but I have no ill feelings for those of that teaching. I think we're all doing our best and God will be merciful.

 

[Hey You!]

Not telling a JW that Jesus is LORD, is Scattering rather than Gathering...

 

[ElieG12]

To learn the official teachings of the Governing Body of the worldwide community of Jehovah's Witnesses, you can access the official website where only they publish Bible studies and current topics related to the Bible. No one else can publish there, and no Witness in the world can speculate on things they imagine when interpreting the Bible in a personal way.

After learning from the Governing Body, we make sure to go to the Bible quotes and study them carefully, to realize if the teaching we receive comes from the Scriptures; this is always the case, at least as far as I am concerned. The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses takes very seriously that their teachings are based on the Bible, and they have a lot of experience in studying deep Bible topics in order to understand them correctly. Of course, as is evident, for this they pray to God for his holy spirit and study in depth all the edges of each issue through the Bible.

I appreciate your opinion on what the witnesses study, but this issue here is not about deciding which group is closer to what true Christianity has to teach and practice. This topic is about people who independently try to spread their own private interpretations as if it were God who is privately telling them what they should tell others.

Do you believe that God calls independent people, or does He already have a group that He leads while teaching the biblical truths?

It is a very serious matter, because if the truth were spread in each individual who believes that God shows him the way in a particular way, people will never find the truth in the midst of such a chaotic mass of hundreds of thousands of people who are independent and contradict each other so much. God could not be directing a divided work in that way; the holy spirit does not go against unity.

 

[Verily]

Not telling a JW that Jesus is LORD, is Scattering rather than Gathering...

Its best to show the things we believe through the scriptures. Speaking the same in that way because it does put a difference in places.

For example,

Acts 2:34-35 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

Because the same (next verse) is shown making Jesus both Lord and Christ

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Likewise Paul says,

1 Cr 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Jerm 10:10 But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

And again,

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Ephes 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Phil 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Rom 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Separating of the LORD from my Lord shown in the resurection itself, shows the Son of God and in another place more specifically the three (Yellow/Red/Blue) which are one, for example here,

Mark 12:35 And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple,

How say the scribes that Christ is the Son of David?

Mark 12:37 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Mark 12:37 David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.

The LORD (His God/ John 20:17) made Jesus both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36) And the testimony (given of the Father himself) is that Jesus is the Christ the Son of the living God (Mat 16:16-17) and who a liar is is defined here for us as it relates to the same.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

 

[Davy]

Not telling a JW that Jesus is LORD, is Scattering rather than Gathering...

Nah, a JW that disagrees that Jesus is LORD is simply showing how they have left the written Word of God. And that certainly means scattering...

Matt 1:21-23
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel", which being interpreted is, God with us.
KJV

Heb 1:2-3
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, Whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by Whom also He made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
KJV

John 14:8-9
8 Philip saith unto Him, "Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us."
9 Jesus saith unto him, "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known Me, Philip? he that hath seen Me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, 'Shew us the Father?'"
KJV


As a matter of fact, the Jehovah Witness cult was lone founded by one man, Charles Taze Russel, who said if students followed his own Bible study lessons, then they would not even need a Bible. Later the JW organization created their 'own' Bible to omit Scripture like the above which declares Jesus of Nazareth as a Person in The Godhead, even as the "express image" of The Father. At the end of John 8, Jesus declared Himself as The "I Am" to the unbelieving Pharisees, who sought to stone Him after He said that.

 

[amigo de christo]

Of course it's scattering.
We're supposed to be of one mind as both Jesus and Paul stated.
Philippians 2:2
Galatians 3:28
1 Peter 3:8
1 Corinthians 1:10
I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

So here's the problem:
I believe I'm a mainline Christian.
I read odd beliefs on these forums.
But they think their right.
And I think I'm right.

So does it matter who's right?
Should we not be posting to each other and just let everyone believe what they will?

Here's the question Elie:

How can we know who has the truth?

The truth aint so hard to find my friend . How can we know who has the truth .
I SUGGEST you put a bible into every hand of every believer and get them busy reading for themselves .
to learn afresh and anew . This is not complicated at all . MEN have lied to us
and told us one cannot learn the bible on his or her own . That is a lie .
I have read with others and we seem to agree ON EVERYTHING . no fighting , no qaurrels , no strife .
JUST LOVING the words of TRUTH and learning and growing . I cannot stress it enough that we must
get this people back into the bible cause man cannot live on emotions . It dont work .

 

[Bob Estey]

In the first century, Christians who learned directly from Jesus had to teach the same things they received. Those who learned from them, in turn, had to teach based on those same early teachings. Those were the received truths that had to be preached before the end.

When those truths were no longer the same because people began to speculate and philosophize on their own, trying to become teachers themselves instead of reviewing what they had already received, the church became corrupted. Religious arguments, sects, divisions, lies disguised as truth, struggles for power, etc. arose.

Jesus Christ said that he who does not gather with Him, scatters (Luke 11:23).

Have you ever wondered if spreading your own speculations, interpreting the Bible in your own particular and unique way, is actually scattering?

What bothers me is that people treat the Bible as if it were God himself. God and Jesus are often quoted in the Bible, and the Bible does not lie, but the Bible isn't God.

 

[ElieG12]

Jesus treated the Scriptures like it was God's word (John 17:17).

The Bible is the only secure, reliable, fixed and stable written document, through which we can directly know the divine principles, the thoughts of God, with direct and understandable words without great effort.

 

[Verily]

What bothers me is that people treat the Bible as if it were God himself. God and Jesus are often quoted in the Bible, and the Bible does not lie, but the Bible isn't God.

That's just strange to me. The book tells us to pray to God (not to itself) or to worship and sing to God
(not to itself). I have never in my life seen someone singing to "the book", or praying to "the book."

Have you been bumping into these sorts of people somewhere?

 

[Bob Estey]

That's just strange to me. The book tells us to pray to God (not to itself) or to worship and sing to God
(not to itself). I have never in my life seen someone singing to "the book", or praying to "the book."

Have you been bumping into these sorts of people somewhere?

But people act as if Paul had just as much authority as Jesus.

 

[ElieG12]

But people act as if Paul had just as much authority as Jesus.

Exaggerations.

It seems that YOU do not like to follow the instructions of the holy spirit that we received through the anointed ones of the first century.

 

[Verily]

But people act as if Paul had just as much authority as Jesus.

What does this response have to do with what you first stated about the bible (book) worship?

2 Cr 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord;
and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

 

[Rockerduck]

Without the Holy Spirit you cannot understand scripture. In the first century they had, not only the Apostles, but all of the original followers of Jesus as well as all those at Pentecost, who were taught by the Apostles. The Apostle Paul took 3 missionary trips teaching and preaching. Many were taught by the Apostle Paul, and he placed elders in all churches. By the last half to the first century, all 4 gospels and Paul's letters were had by all churches. In 144 ad., Marion created the first bible that forced the traditional churches to canonize their own bible. The Word of God has been pretty straight and constant ever since. When there is no Holy Spirit, there is no understanding.

 

[Brakelite]

But people act as if Paul had just as much authority as Jesus.

Mmmm. If Paul was inspired by the same holy Spirit as the prophets and the Son of God, then yes, Paul and Jesus spoke/ wrote with the same authority.
When Jesus quoted David, or Moses, did those words suddenly have more authority than when they were first penned?
I would suggest that when we speak the word of God in faith and in His name, that word has the same authority as if God Himself were speaking it.

“7 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 8 Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink. 9 And Moses took the rod from before the LORD, as he commanded him. 10 And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock? 11 And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also. 12 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them. ”
Numbers 20:7-12 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

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Read the story of Balaam and Balak. Whose authority was exercised when Balaam spoke to Israel?