Limited atonement !

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Rightglory

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You dont pay attention to the context, Jesus prayer did include future believers Jn 17:20

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

There are others who have been predestined to believe in Him through the word of the Apostles, He also prayed for them, not yet born,yet He doesnt pray for the world in General
Another butcher job on a context. You are correct in that vs 20 is about future believers, However the whole context of vs 20 - 23 is being directed at the Church. Up to this point He has not prayed for any general believers. First section: vs 1-5 Jesus is praying for Himself, vs6-19 He prays for His disciples. This group, by the way, were elected, Then from 20 -23 He is praying for the Church, those that will believe through their (apostles) word. Then He prays for all others vs 24-26.
Isn't it strange that He is praying to those that will believe to join His Church, when by your version this would be unnecessary since He has already predestined them to believe. You seem not to understand the ramifications of your own theology.
So, once again, scripture denies your theories that He did not pray for the world (all others).
 

Rightglory

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Romans 8 Teaches Particular Redemption

Romans 8 is also contrary to universal atonement. Verses 28-30 speak of a people whom God foreknew, predestinated, called according to His purpose, justified, glorified and conformed to the image of His Son. The apostle draws the following conclusion: “What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?” (31). “Then” or “therefore” indicates that this is a logical inference based on his preceding statements, here called “these things.” The “us” can only be those predestinated (or elected) and called according to God’s eternal purpose (28-30). Paul’s argument is this: If God is “for us” (31) in predestination, calling, justification and glorification (29-30), then “who can be against us?” (31). In other words, if God in His eternal decree has chosen us to everlasting bliss, called us out of darkness into His marvellous light, acquitted us of all our sins and reckoned us righteous with the very righteousness of Christ Himself, and glorified us in conforming us to the image of His Son, then “who can be against us?” (31).

The apostle reinforces this already compelling argument with another: “He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?” (32). Who are the “us” referred to twice here for whom God sent the Saviour to die? Again, they are those predestinated and called according to God’s eternal purpose (28-30). The only conclusion is that Christ died for the elect.

If it is objected that the Lord Jesus also died for the non-elect, then we reply that the passage gives absolutely no hint of this. In fact, this would make the passage teach that God sent His Son to die for those who are not predestinated and not called, justified, glorified or conformed to Christ. Moreover, if it is argued that the Saviour died for the reprobate, this would make the passage teach that the reprobate will receive all the blessings of His cross, for verse 32 teaches that God freely gives “all things” to those for whom Christ died. The “all things” include freedom from the law of sin and death (2), life and peace (6), adoption as God’s sons (14), the witness of the Spirit (16), an eternal inheritance (17), the redemption of the body at the resurrection of the just (23), the ability to pray in the Spirit (26), etc. Furthermore, the “all things” would also include the blessings of justification, calling, glorification and conformity to Christ according to God’s eternal predestination (28-30)! To read universal atonement into Romans 8:32 would mean that God freely gives the blessings of calling, justification and glorification to the reprobate, those whom He never calls, justifies or glorifies. This verse teaches an absolutely inseparable connection between those for whom Christ died and all these spiritual blessings. Some do not receive these blessings; therefore, the Saviour did not die for them.

Next Romans 8 declares that no charge (33) and no condemnation (34) can be laid against those who are justified (33), those for whom Christ died (34). But many charges are righteously made by the God of heaven against the reprobate wicked so that they are condemned! This is the case because they are not justified (33), for Jesus did not die for them and does not intercede for them (34).

For Whom Did Christ Die? – CPRC 3
A lot of words but all based on an incorrect assumption of the word "predestinate"
Very simply, It says, "For whom He foreknew....who did He foreknow. God is omniscient, thus He knows all things. He knows who will believe, thus He does not NEED to predestinate. However, He did predestinate those that He foreknew to be conformed to His Image. Nothing about predestinating anyone as believers, or to be believers.
 
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shepherdsword

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A lot of words but all based on an incorrect assumption of the word "predestinate"
Very simply, It says, "For whom He foreknew....who did He foreknow. God is omniscient, thus He knows all things. He knows who will believe, thus He does not NEED to predestinate. However, He did predestinate those that He foreknew to be conformed to His Image. Nothing about predestinating anyone as believers, or to be believers.
ZING! We have a winner!
 

Dan Clarkston

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This aint about hell

So you have believe the devil's lie that there is no hell.;... got it.

Whether this thread is about hell or not.... the4 simple answer to that simple question is YES there is a hell according to Jesus and those that claim there is no hell are claiming Jesus Christi is a liar which is how we know they are being lead by the devil since the devil is always claiming what God says is a lie as we see in the garden of eden




Still the elect sheep

That's what the devil keep telling the gullible who are ignorant of God's Word agree.gif





Jesus didn't pray for the world in General

But He did tell the Body of Christ to take the Gospel to the entire world which is how we know Jesus was not deceived by the calvinist cult.

If limited atonement was actually true... Jesus would not have given the Great Commission since Jesus is not stoopid disagree.gif






Jesus made it a point to differentiate the elect from the non‑elect in His prayers. He specifically says that He does not ask on behalf of the world. It is unlikely that He would refuse to pray for those for whom He was about to die.

He was praying for His disciples at that point who were carrying the gospel forward... Jesus later told them to go in to all the world and preach the Gospel to ALL.... which is how we know the Lord has provided a pathway for ALL to have salvation

This is a classic example of people being cherry pickers... rejecting the whole counsel of GGod in favor of their pet doctrine that came from satan.




Another butcher job on a context.

That's what satan keep telling the gullible who are still too slow to know they have been deceived by low level devils




Nothing about predestinating anyone as believers, or to be believers.

Actually all men are predesignated by God to be conformed to the Image of Jesus... meaning like Jesus God has called all men to refuse to turn away from the Father and to always walk in agreement with Him.

This is the purpose for each person's existence, it's WHY God created them.... for the purpose of choosing to be with the Lord answering the call of predestination the Lord has placed on each and ever human being He has ever created

Now satan is a liar and he comes along and started up with calvinism cult to deceive the gullible and the ignorant in to not believing God desires that all be saved... and those with darkened understanding continue in the false doctrines of the calvinist cult.

If calvinists truly believed in limited atonement they would not even be arguing about it which is how we know they don't really believe their own cult teachings..

It's like someone trying to convince you that the easter bunny is real.... nobody sits and argues with them about it because we all know there is no eater bunny so the calvinists are like the easter bunny boys funny.gif
 
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Rightglory

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@Rightglory



If proves He didn't, the damnation of hell is for sin. Those for whom Christ died have no sin to be damned for
No, those that believed and remained faithful, have no sin and will be judged accordingly. There are a lot of believers that were believers but are no longer, they fell away.

If you think there is a hell in your theology then explain from that vantage point how it could exist?
When one juxtaposed your theology with scripture:
there would be no need for hell. Nobody would be in it.
I could also say you would not be going to heaven either, since it does not exist, there would be no need for it.
I could also say that Christ did not rise from the dead.
 

brightfame52

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No, those that believed and remained faithful, have no sin and will be judged accordingly. There are a lot of believers that were believers but are no longer, they fell away.

If you think there is a hell in your theology then explain from that vantage point how it could exist?
When one juxtaposed your theology with scripture:
there would be no need for hell. Nobody would be in it.
I could also say you would not be going to heaven either, since it does not exist, there would be no need for it.
I could also say that Christ did not rise from the dead.
Again damnation which they wont escape is for sin that Christ didnt die for.
 

Runningman

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You dont pay attention to the context, Jesus prayer did include future believers Jn 17:20

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

There are others who have been predestined to believe in Him through the word of the Apostles, He also prayed for them, not yet born,yet He doesnt pray for the world in General
Presumably Peter, John, Matthew, and Mark were present when Jesus prayed that. Technically that would mean we need to disregard Luke and the Pauline letters if one were to take a strictly literal approach to what Jesus prayed for.
 

Rightglory

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Again damnation which they wont escape is for sin that Christ didnt die for.
If hell exists in your theory, how did it come about.
Again, I'll superimpose your theology on scripture and say the following. Christ didn't die for any sin, It will not be possible according to what you believe. You missing the key that makes what Christ did valid. You keep denying who Christ really is and what He did.
 

Hey You!

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If hell exists in your theory, how did it come about.
Again, I'll superimpose your theology on scripture and say the following. Christ didn't die for any sin, It will not be possible according to what you believe. You missing the key that makes what Christ did valid. You keep denying who Christ really is and what He did.
Please forgive me; I don’t understand why you say his Hyper Calvinism means he can't believe in Hell?
 

Runningman

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You dont pay attention to the context, Jesus prayer did include future believers Jn 17:20

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

There are others who have been predestined to believe in Him through the word of the Apostles, He also prayed for them, not yet born,yet He doesnt pray for the world in General
I've been thinking about Jesus' prayer in John 17, especially verse 9, and thought of an important question that I would like your feedback on. Do you believe Judas Iscariot is of the elect? He was chosen.

John 6 NKJV
70Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”

John 17 NKJV
9“I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.
12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
 
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Hey You!

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I've been thinking about Jesus' prayer in John 17, especially verse 9, and thought of an important question that I would like your feedback on. Do you believe Judas Iscariot is of the elect? He was chosen.

John 6 NKJV
70Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”

John 17 NKJV
9“I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.
12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
Now that's a great question!
 

brightfame52

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Mike Mcinnis writes:

There is no more hated doctrine in that camp than that which declares that the redemption which was finished by CHRIST is exclusively accomplished for an elect people. The statement, “Jesus died for everyone” cannot be true unless one of two things is true: Either we conclude that all men are saved or we conclude that CHRIST only made salvation a possibility by HIS death and in reality saved no one by HIS effort. We are certain that all men are not saved because the LORD JESUS plainly declared that all men were not HIS sheep and that some have the devil for their father..HE says HE does not know them. The writer of Hebrews plainly states that CHRIST has “obtained eternal redemption” for those for whom HE shed HIS precious blood. Even as the angel told Joseph, “thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.” There is no mention in the scripture of an ATONEMENT that does not atone, a JUSTIFIER which does not justify, nor a SAVIOR which does not save. HE is the SANCTIFIER and the SANCTIFICATION of all of those for whom HE has entered in once into the Holy Place with HIS own blood. The redemption of the LORD’s people is not a cooperative effort nor does it somehow become effective when they believe it. Those who are redeemed by HIS blood are redeemed by HIS blood. Their justification does not depend on what they do or do not do, but rather is completely based on what HE has done in their behalf. What they could not do HE has accomplished for them. HE has become sin for them that they might be made the righteousness of GOD in HIM. There can be no true gospel preached where the work of CHRIST is presented as less than the complete salvation of those for whom HE died. There is no mixture of the profane and the sacred in the proclamation of the finished work of CHRIST. There is no place for men to glory in having been made the recipients of HIS grace and the objects of HIS favor.https://media-cloud.sermonaudio.com/text/122192132104807.pdf 4
 

brightfame52

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If hell exists in your theory, how did it come about.
Again, I'll superimpose your theology on scripture and say the following. Christ didn't die for any sin, It will not be possible according to what you believe. You missing the key that makes what Christ did valid. You keep denying who Christ really is and what He did.
Again damnation which they wont escape is for sin that Christ didnt die for. Limited atonement