Limited atonement is a false gospel

[Lizbeth]

God has chosen out a bride for His Son to rule with Him in His time limited kingdom reign. His bride is made up of a limited number, it's exclusive, only a few, which He's elected.

Yes, but I believe this is in a manner of speaking, not in too literal a sense. God speaking of spiritual things in flimsy human language to convey spiritual truth.

 

[TLHKAJ]

In the days of Noah, did God know (foreknowledge) that there was going to be a flood on the earth?

If so what did God do?

Do you think God sent the flood without knowing? lol
I guess I'm not getting what your question is.

 

[TLHKAJ]

"All according to your belief" seems to be the go-to copout phrase for saying, "I have my truth, and I don't need the Word of God to measure what the 'spirit' is saying to my spirit."

 

[Ritajanice]

I was more asking WHY it is limited to the Elect? Why are they elected in particular and not others?

God has chosen out a bride for His Son to rule with Him in His time limited kingdom reign. His bride is made up of a limited number, it's exclusive, only a few, which He's elected.

Yes, they are the Born Again....those who he chose and predestined to become his children.

Yet in the Father's following kingdom He has no such limit. Jesus atonement, which is available to ALL will be accepted by ALL. Why? Because God is not willing that any should perish but that ALL be reconciled to Himself so that He is ALL in ALL.

God's objectives and goals for the 2 kingdoms require 2 different means and approaches.

Many commentaries of other believers, that I love to read...would not agree with you there.

Like I’ve explained I don’t fully understand limited atonement....to me it means that only a Born Again will see the Kingdom Of God.

I know 100% that I’m in the Lambs book of life...I also know 100% that my spirit is Born Again...reconciled back to my Spirit Father God....because of what Jesus did for his sheep....those who also recognise his voice....and ignore the voice of a stranger.

My truth is in Gods Living testimony who witnesses Gods truth to my heart/ spirit....

The Bible confirms how the Living Spirit gives birth to our spirit.....by Gods Living testimony the Holy Spirit....mind Blowing stuff....

 

[Ritajanice]

That's what all the false brethren keep claiming




You think God caused Judas to to betray Jesus?

That's some fake teaching right there




Which is in error



Ask a satanic question, get a satanic answer

Asking questions like this is giving credence to doctrines of demons as it suggests demonic doctrine may be valid




Pretty funny coming from a person that says they don't know if being gay is acceptable to the Lord or not.

God's Word very clearly condemns homosexuality which demonstrates that some among us do not actually honor God's Word.

As such they live in error and aren't qualified to speak about the things of the Lord.




Those that actually have the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ would know gay ain't OK before the Lord.




You might be one of the ones God decided not to "elect" and it was a demon that made you think you were born again.

You obviously reject that God directed His Word to be put in written form which results in demons leading people astray

It's funny to hear the doctrine people pull out of their rear end that opposes what God has already said which is how we know the "spirit" that is leading them is actually demonic.

Rather than get involved with you and your trolling, which is all over the forum...I’m going to put you on ignore...you too don’t speak my language....go troll and bait someone else..you have serious issues...you are in my prayers.....the way you are carrying on, I wouldn’t be surprised that you will be banned soon, if you carry on the way that you are carrying on.your posts are very unfruitful and very unedifying......bye

 

[Runningman]

You can’t prove that Judas was a believer...where does the Bible say that he was elect...he was chosen to be a disciple...doesn’t mean that he was Born Again.

He was chosen imo by God to full-fill Gods plan for salvation...that is my opinion..you have posted yours.

In Matthew 10:1-4, Judas was specifically granted authority to cast out demons and to heal the sick just like the other apostles and that authority was specifically mentioned by Jesus himself as an authority exclusive to believers in Mark 16:17. Based on the internal witness of the Bible, that would prove Judas is a believer who was lost.

 

[Rockerduck]

In Matthew 10:1-4, Judas was specifically granted authority to cast out demons and to heal the sick just like the other apostles and that authority was specifically mentioned by Jesus himself as an authority exclusive to believers in Mark 16:17. Based on the internal witness of the Bible, that would prove Judas is a believer who was lost.

I doubt Judas knew or understood Jesus and His mission. Neither did the other Apostles. Jesus at the last supper said He would be betrayed, and they all said "is it me"? None of them understood salvation until Pentecost. The Gospel of John clearly say the Apostles did not understand. John 10:6 Even when Jesus told them there names were written in the book of life, foretelling of the 11 apostles at Pentecost. But Jesus did say it would have been better for Judas to never been born. Mark 14:21. Judas was not saved in any sense.

 

[Lizbeth]

"All according to your belief" seems to be the go-to copout phrase for saying, "I have my truth, and I don't need the Word of God to measure what the 'spirit' is saying to my spirit."

It's concerning for someone not to read the word of God for instruction in righteousness as well as the reproof, rebuke and correction of it. Think it explains a few things. As well as why they don't understand biblical language. They are missing out on a lot of washing of the water of the word, which is alive and active and is needed to grow and learn...to "profit" from.

 

[Runningman]

I doubt Judas knew or understood Jesus and His mission. Neither did the other Apostles. Jesus at the last supper said He would be betrayed, and they all said "is it me"? None of them understood salvation until Pentecost. The Gospel of John clearly say the Apostles did not understand. John 10:6 Even when Jesus told them there names were written in the book of life, foretelling of the 11 apostles at Pentecost. But Jesus did say it would have been better for Judas to never been born. Mark 14:21. Judas was not saved in any sense.

Who was Jesus speaking to when he answered Peter, saying they would sit on 12 thrones, judge the tribes of Israel, and inherit eternal life? "The 12" are always the 12 disciples in the synoptic gospels. That would include Judas being told he would receive eternal life, but he didn't receive it did he.

Matthew 19
27“Look,” Peter replied, “we have left everything to follow You. What then will there be for us?”

28Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, in the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for the sake of My name will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life.

 

[Rockerduck]

Who was Jesus speaking to when he answered Peter, saying they would sit on 12 thrones, judge the tribes of Israel, and inherit eternal life? "The 12" are always the 12 disciples in the synoptic gospels. That would include Judas being told he would receive eternal life, but he didn't receive it did he.

Matthew 19
27“Look,” Peter replied, “we have left everything to follow You. What then will there be for us?”

28Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, in the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for the sake of My name will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life.

Considering the Apostle Paul is the 12th Apostle, yes. When Jesus spoke, He knew Judas would betray Him.

 

[One 2 question]

Yes, but I believe this is in a manner of speaking, not in too literal a sense. God speaking of spiritual things in flimsy human language to convey spiritual truth.

For sure. But this is where the Spirit in us come in. What's literal what's not.

Like Joseph, who couldn't interpret dreams naturally but required the Spirit to do this with him.

 

[One 2 question]

The ark is an allegory for Christ and the gospel.....not to be taken too literally. All those animals represented lost souls......

Are you saying that there wasn't a man named Noah or only that the ark was never actually built. It was all just a made up story?

like Peter's vision of the unclean animals. The ark was open to all (as I don't think Noah being the preacher of righteousness only preached to a chosen few) but not all were willing to get on board. There is nothing "limited" about the cross of Christ......His voice has gone out to all the earth......it is people themselves who are the limiting factor. The term "limited atonement" is not helpful, but misleading....it's a term not found in the bible, so we have no obligation to it whatsoever.

Yes and no. The blood of the Lamb of God I'd available to all. And all will accepting its effectual power. But just not in this age. Only the elect will see this offer on the table and take hold of it by faith.

 

[Runningman]

Considering the Apostle Paul is the 12th Apostle, yes. When Jesus spoke, He knew Judas would betray Him.

Paul wasn't the 12th apostle, but rather the 13th, according to Acts 1:26, because that was Matthias.

26Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias. So he was added to the eleven apostles.

Paul wasn't even born yet by the time Jesus was telling the 12 they would receive eternal life. "The 12" in the gospels consistently includes Judas so it's the established precedent.

 

[One 2 question]

for many do cliam to know the bible

What do you mean by , to know the bible?

 

[One 2 question]

for many do cliam to know the bible and yet its quite clear they do not . FOR many KNOW NOT HE who inspired it .

That's the majority of the human race don't you think?

 

[One 2 question]

Many do follow another jesus in these last hours .

I believe you are right

 

[One 2 question]

But in this last hour through deceptive schemes of men and of the dark one , it has infiltrated the hearts of many .
And it will take ALL not in the lambs book of life captive to THE LIE.

Yes, God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. What chance have they got but to believe ..... a lie.

Everyone's against them, Satan the deceiver, the world, their sinful desires and now God.

Thanks be to God He has an eternal purpose and plan.

 

[One 2 question]

Something very wicked cometh and now even is . We must not fear man , nor hope one bit in these earthen kingdoms
or these poltiicains , nor in many who even sit in wool and lead this people to the lie .

Yes, Satan is very active atm. God's will is being carried out. It's exciting! And we get to not only watch this divine blockbuster play out before us but we get to participate in it. Fantastic! What a privilege hey.

 

[Ritajanice]

In Matthew 10:1-4, Judas was specifically granted authority to cast out demons and to heal the sick just like the

It says he was granted to do so....there is nowhere in scripture that specifically said he cast out any demon..

I also believe that God chose Judas to betray Jesus...that was Gods plan from the beginning ...God knows the heart of a person from the beginning of their life to the very end of their life ....he could see the heart of Judas..that’s why he chose him, he fulfilled Gods plan ....in that he was the one who was chosen by God to betray the Holy one.....we serve a very clever God....that is my opinion and belief only.

other apostles and that authority was specifically mentioned by Jesus himself as an authority exclusive to believers in Mark 16:17. Based on the internal witness of the Bible, that would prove Judas is a believer who was lost.

Sorry, there is nowhere in that scripture that specifically says that’s” Judas”:cast out devils.

Jesus sent out the 12...he gave them authority....we can’t see anywhere that “ Judas” drove out impure spirits....we can “ assume”:that he did....but, there is nowhere in scripture to say that he did.

Unless I can read that Judas drove out demons...then I don’t believe that he personally did, even though it says he was given authority, that is not saying that he drove any demons out..it’s just saying that he was given “ authority “ that’s all that scripture is saying....personally, I don’t believe he did..,because it’s not written that “ Judas” drove out demons...he had Jesus authority...
Therefore I agree to disagree...
Jesus Sends Out the Twelve
10 Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.

2 These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.

Also.

Mark 14​

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King James Version​

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14 After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.
2 But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar of the people.
3 And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at meat, there came a woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious; and she brake the box, and poured it on his head.
4 And there were some that had indignation within themselves, and said, Why was this waste of the ointment made?
5 For it might have been sold for more than three hundred pence, and have been given to the poor. And they murmured against her.
6 And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her? she hath wrought a good work on me.
7 For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.
8 She hath done what she could: she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying.
9 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.
10 And Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve, went unto the chief priests, to betray him unto them.
11 And when they heard it, they were glad, and promised to give him money. And he sought how he might conveniently betray him.
12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?
13 And he sendeth forth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him.
14 And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
15 And he will shew you a large upper room furnished and prepared: there make ready for us.
16 And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
17 And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.
18 And as they sat and did eat, Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, One of you which eateth with me shall betray me.
19 And they began to be sorrowful, and to say unto him one by one, Is it I? and another said, Is it I?
20 And he answered and said unto them, It is one of the twelve, that dippeth with me in the dish.
21 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.
22 And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.
23 And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it

 

[Ritajanice]

For sure. But this is where the Spirit in us come in. What's literal what's not

Of course it’s literal that the Spirit comes into us, he came into me, through the tips of my toes all the way through my body, as he was doing so, the Spirit testified with my spirit that I am Gods child, / Born Again,
he has taken up permanent residence/ manifested his Living Spirit into my heart/ spirit.( hence Spirit gives birth to spirit) ..which is where he is conforming me into Jesus image...bearing the fruit of the Spirit ...I have a new heart and Spirit within I am also a partaker Of his divine nature...a privilege and honour to be conformed into Jesus image...Praise God for that honour and Privilege.
A “ mind blowing “ supernatural ,divine birth carried out by the testimony of the Living Spirit...

Born Again of the Living seed of God.....

I was Born Of The Spirit, the exact way that Jesus explains to Nicodemas...with no Bible in sight, how else would I know in my spirit that it’s Born Again..I have Gods Living testimony indwelling my spirit, testifying to my spirit all day every day, that I’m God’s child...it’s true what his written word confirms...there is nothing that can part us from the Love Of God....the Love Of God who is a Living Spirit who birthed my spirit and my spirit fell instantly in Love with the Spirit Of God the moment my spirit was birthed....

Of course those who have no spiritual understanding or discernment would think me crazy..I’ve been called demonic, gnostic, deranged, a Calvinist a devil, you name it I’ve been called it...Jesus said that we will be persecuted, the written word confirms this.

I stand on the Living testimony of the Living Spirit never ever to deny my Living testimony who indwells my spirit......I will defend my faith unto the death...the Living Spirit who birthed my spirit will never be denied.....I also believe that the Spirit gives me the words to say / write down...it’s like his words just flow out of me....his heart speaks through me...that is my belief 100%..even though it can’t be proven...what ever God wants to speak through me, it will be spoken .i am here to spread the word that God is a Living Spirit.he is not a Bible.....the word confirms this.......Praise God .

The written word of God is not Alive and Active..and there are those who think it is..imo they have been deceived, they have no spiritual discernment imo....they idolise the Bible rather than the Living Spirit Of God....I have a friend like that....yet when I speak of the Living Spirit Of God....she can’t understand it, neither can she understand the Living supernatural spirit birth....we had to part ways in the end....as she was very dominant and controlling of me, trying to teach me the word of God....yet she had not one ounce of “ heart knowledge “ in her spirit of who God is, she only knew of God by reading about him in the Bible....there was no life of God in her heart..all .I wanted to talk about the Living Spirit Of God and Glorify His Living Spirit...all she wanted to do was read her bible....each to their own I guess....
Also there are those who say that I never read my Bible....that is their own assumption, that I don’t read my Bible every day ....and sadly they are a twister of my words....I am led through the Bible most days by the Living Spirit Of God...to which he has taught me so much about the ministry of Jesus....also how the Spirit teaches us from the depths of our heart as we grow closer and closer to the Living Spirit Of God.....an amazing honour and Privilege to be led by Gods Living testimony...it’s my heart that worships God, because it’s Born Again.you will NEVER see me idolising a Bible, like some do........Praise God..

God is a Living Spirit and as we well know that his Spirit is Alive and Active...His Living Spirit is everywhere..

The Living Spirit Of God can never be contained..

Hebrews 4:12​

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King James Version​

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12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart