Let's discuss..cessation after death?

[marks]

And here comes the question..how do you KNOW you have the Spirit?

Most of my life I'm in the valley's brother and seldom seen the mountaintop.

Is this sealing/walking in the Spirit experiential?
It must be so.. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

You know the Greek word, a co-witnessing together with our spirit...how is He doing it with you?

I am wrestling with this question.

I can only come to the conclusion it must be experiential, not so Marks?

Yet I know that I am born from above since I was a young man.
Regards
J.

The deep question!

I've given this a lot of thought, and to me it comes down to the last line of your post. "Yet I know that I am born from above."

Romans 8:15-17 KJV
15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17) And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Even if we cannot point to some fully formed doctrine, even if we cannot list our array of good works, how do we know we are born from above? And how do we know we are not self-deluded?

We know that if we are in fact born from above, that the Holy Spirit will be testifying with our spirit that we are children of God, it will happen.

We hunger for God. We hunger for righteousness. We fear His displeasure. We cling to Him. In short, we are different inside, and we know it. We remember who we were before Christ made us alive, and we see the difference between that death we were in, and this new life found in Christ. We have a sense of wrongness about sin that wasn't there before. We have an awareness of sin far beyond what we had.

There was a friend of mine on a forum many years ago, who liked to ask people, have you been born again long enough to be certain that you are?

We have received the Spirit of adoption whereby we cry, Abba! Father!

By the Holy Spirit, we cry . . . Without Him, we do not cry out, Abba! Father! BY Him, we do, as long as I've meditated on this passage, I still cannot find the dividing line between the Spirit of God, and my spirit, this is how united we are.

God's given me some incredible gifts that have reassured me, and I still have to reflect back on certain times sometimes to reassure myself. We are all the same!

You've maybe heard the parable, you only find the strength of the tea when you put it in hot water. You find the strength of your faith when it is tested. Living in the valleys - I have a lot of them too - shows us that when we need something, we turn to Him. And even if we have a season of bitterness, yet still we know, it's just not the same as it was before.

Or the short answer . . . I really do believe Jesus rose from the dead, and I really do believe He is Lord of all, and Lord of me, and I freely declare this. So God said I'd be saved. Must be true!

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

Take the entire passage, don't remove this part from it's context.

Romans 8 is such an amazing passage to me, so very filled with deep and transformative doctrine.

Romans 8:5-14 KJV
5) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10) And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Follow the flow of thought. In the flesh, live after the flesh, to be fleshy minded, all of this is life without the Spirit of Christ.

But we are not in flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of Christ live in you.

Much love!

Ooh, she called you a Pharisee!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Ah, Dark Night Of The Soul stuff. Been there in some sense. I don't really like to say "I know exactly how you feel" 'cause it sounds to me like "Been there, done that, get over it," - lol

You might relate somewhat to this:

Stages of Faith - Jon Paulien Ph.D.
Audio: Stages of Faith With Jon Paulien – oneClimbs.com

It has Adventist flavor but I think it's has pretty interesting observations.

Like John Amadeus, right?

Oh…that’s right, his name is John too! Yep, even after this life, he will be Amadeus to me! Lol. I think I might check out those links. :) always looking for any help I can get.

 

[Johann]

Why announce you were in the Spirit when everyone is always in the Spirit at all times??

Hmm..interesting question and I noticed since you are back the "boys" is towing the line..we can go deeper on this subject with the morphology of the Greek and correlate it to our experience why?


2Co_13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Starting from here..and hopefully the heavens will open
J.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Ooh, she called you a Pharisee!

Tsk!

 

[marks]

You’re such a lawyer!
Abide in me and I in you are two different things.
Having the down payment of the Spirit in you and walking/being in the Spirit are two different things. Otherwise, why did John feel the need to write, I was in the Spirit, when he was given revelations about the coming day of the Lord. Do you think when they read, I was in the Spirit, that they were puzzled and said, well duh John, you’re always in the Spirit and so are we, why the verbosity? Why announce you were in the Spirit when everyone is always in the Spirit at all times??
That concludes my arguing over words.

If I am a lawyer, you are an eel!

Again, John's quote from Revelation, that is aside to this, it's a different context, it's different genre, Paul is teaching, John is narrating. No, I don't think they were puzzled, more than likely, and I don't thing they suddenly changed their minds about what Paul's letter to Rome said.

When you say "down payment of the Spirit", do you mean this as, "a partial payment of the Holy Spirit", or "the Holy Spirit as partial payment"?

You write "walking/being in the Spirit" as if those were the same.

But again, from Galatians, IF we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. They are not the same.

Much love!

 

[Johann]

Peace, my good friend.

No hiding, nowhere to go so why hide?
J.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Ooh, she called you a Pharisee!

Keep it up and we’ll all get you spoons for Christmas, mr pot stirrer!

 

[BarneyFife]

I eat plenty enough cheeseburgers

You should pick up some of these at Walmart!
They're awesome! I'm just a nut, right?
(They smell like cat food when you're cooking them—ROTFL—but they're great!)

 

[marks]

All anyone has to do is pump themself full of Scripture and just believe in it's creative power. They'll see revival automatically. People (like me) like to say that it's easier said than done, when they're not doing it. But when a person makes up their mind to beg God for the strength to do it, He just makes it happen. We have not because we ask not (I love James 4—it's a serious reality check). All I'm really saying is what we all already know. Draw nigh unto God and he will draw nigh unto you. I prosper spiritually commensurate to the degree that I stop drawing back from Jesus. It works every time.

Absolutely! Yay and hooray!!!!! And Amen!

Yes! All you need do is learn what the Bible says, and believe it, and particularly, as pertains to the nuts and bolts of our lives, Paul's letters, the Apostle to the Gentiles. But it's all good!

I love seeing faith in the truth! You've made my day for the second time today. First I was corrected, and now I can share rejoicing!

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Keep it up and we’ll all get you spoons for Christmas, mr pot stirrer!

You can make lawyer and eel soup with your spoons.

 

[marks]

David is just a name that's been passed down in my family. But my grandmother once bought me a bookmark for my little light blue book of the New Testament, with the Psalms and Proverbs. It said "David - Beloved One - A Man After God's Own Heart." I've had lots of little but significant moments like that. They steer me to God when I fall away. God is so good—so good.

My name is Mark Daniel. Mark derived from Greek is from Mars, god of war. Mark in Nordic is a battle hammer. Daniel is of course God Judges. Mark Daniel = Warrior of God's Judgment.

:cool:

 

[BarneyFife]

The deep question!

I've given this a lot of thought, and to me it comes down to the last line of your post. "Yet I know that I am born from above."

Romans 8:15-17 KJV
15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17) And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Even if we cannot point to some fully formed doctrine, even if we cannot list our array of good works, how do we know we are born from above? And how do we know we are not self-deluded?

We know that if we are in fact born from above, that the Holy Spirit will be testifying with our spirit that we are children of God, it will happen.

We hunger for God. We hunger for righteousness. We fear His displeasure. We cling to Him. In short, we are different inside, and we know it. We remember who we were before Christ made us alive, and we see the difference between that death we were in, and this new life found in Christ. We have a sense of wrongness about sin that wasn't there before. We have an awareness of sin far beyond what we had.

There was a friend of mine on a forum many years ago, who liked to ask people, have you been born again long enough to be certain that you are?

We have received the Spirit of adoption whereby we cry, Abba! Father!

By the Holy Spirit, we cry . . . Without Him, we do not cry out, Abba! Father! BY Him, we do, as long as I've meditated on this passage, I still cannot find the dividing line between the Spirit of God, and my spirit, this is how united we are.

God's given me some incredible gifts that have reassured me, and I still have to reflect back on certain times sometimes to reassure myself. We are all the same!

You've maybe heard the parable, you only find the strength of the tea when you put it in hot water. You find the strength of your faith when it is tested. Living in the valleys - I have a lot of them too - shows us that when we need something, we turn to Him. And even if we have a season of bitterness, yet still we know, it's just not the same as it was before.

Or the short answer . . . I really do believe Jesus rose from the dead, and I really do believe He is Lord of all, and Lord of me, and I freely declare this. So God said I'd be saved. Must be true!

Much love!

This is good stuff, man. Go, Mark!!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You should pick up some of these at Walmart!
They're awesome! I'm just a nut, right?
(They smell like cat food when you're cooking them—ROTFL—but they're great!)

Gaaah! Blechy bleck!!

 

[BarneyFife]

Gaaah! Blechy bleck!!

llllllllooooooollllllll

 

[stunnedbygrace]

My name is Mark Daniel. Mark derived from Greek is from Mars, god of war. Mark in Nordic is a battle hammer. Daniel is of course God Judges. Mark Daniel = Warrior of God's Judgment.

:cool:

War…battle hammer…sounds right! I laughed really hard.

 

[BarneyFife]

Tsk!

Isn't that what Pharisee means--Lawyer? I think so... :)
(I sometimes don't look up stuff before I post )

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Hmm..interesting question and I noticed since you are back the "boys" is towing the line..we can go deeper on this subject with the morphology of the Greek and correlate it to our experience why?


2Co_13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Starting from here..and hopefully the heavens will open
J.

you lost me at morphology….but I learn something new every time I meet someone who knows Greek! Morph away, might help us.

 

[marks]

Ooh, she called you a Pharisee!

Gee, I missed that!

I mean, I didn't see it, not that I used to enjoy it and it's been a while . . .

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

Keep it up and we’ll all get you spoons for Christmas, mr pot stirrer!

SOMEBODY STOP ME!!! :::