Knowing the Day and the Hour of the Lord's Coming

[Ronald Nolette]

You say that obviously begrudgingly. But is it not written that the children of God are born of flesh and also of the spirit of God? So, to whom are you referring to, my old man of flesh and blood--who, no--is not spirit, or to my new man which was made alive in spite of my flesh being "alive and remaining" in the world--which Paul spoke of?

Or have you just been referring to the things of this world, and those who are perishing?

But it was you who said we must be rid of our earthly matter. those are your words not mine.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Have you not read Ecclesiastes, where the word of God by Solomon, says:

Ecclesiastes 12:7Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

anbd that happens at death. I assume you do not believe you are physically dead yet.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Why do you come at me as if I knew nothing of God, when you show yourself as not even knowing what is written--are you not able to answer the question yourself?

John 3:6That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Once again your ability to know me really sucks.

So are you saying you are o longer flesh and blood? A simple yes or no will do. Please spare this thread all of your mystical musings.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Well, He will come back at a time and hour that we do not know and the whole world, every eye, that means every one alive will see Him as He comes with His angels to take the redeemed to heaven..

Sorry you are now equating the rapture with His physical second coming to earth.

But based on the plain teaching of Scripture we know for a fact that when the antichrist and Israel sign a seven year covenant, 7 years later jesus physically returns!

 

[ScottA]

So, you too have read the one verse prophecy and come to the same conclusions as the flawed commentaries have on their author's understanding of the duration of the, "But in the fourth generation/age, your descendants will return here to this place, the Land of Canaan."

I too was surprised that the time duration of this prophecy as to when they will return to the land of Canaan, in their own strength, turned out to be exactly 4,000 years.

But if you believe that the duration of the fourth generation has a duration of just 400 years, then you have vast time gaps in your understanding of God's unfolding End Time prophecies.

Shalom

I was simply trying to determine which passage you were referring to. So, help me understand your point. It would seem that you are counting 4,000 years from Abraham to 1948. Is that it?

 

[Jay Ross]

I was simply trying to determine which passage you were referring to. So, help me understand your point. It would seem that you are counting 4,000 years from Abraham to 1948. Is that it?

No, that is not what the verse I quoted, well the first part, states.

If you do not know where the prophecy is, then as someone who tries to act like a "profit," not being able to recognise where this verse is in the scriptures, tells us all what we already know.

Goodbye

 

[ScottA]

I have questions. (warning this may be long since I need to include scripture to ask my questions) You have mentioned the word of God being restrained until now. Yet, it was them who were shut up from the truth, until Him who is the True Heir was to come. I get (I think) what you are saying as in “shut up” or “sealed”. As they were “shut up” and “sealed” until the rightful owner comes. Galatians 3:22-23 But the scripture has concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. [23] But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Yet It reminds of 2 Timothy 2:8-9 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: [9] Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

Until he who is taken out of the way…it’s given unto them in parables that seeing they might not see. And hearing that they might not hear and be transformed, healed, and reconciled unto God. That is so stinking confusing because it is the god of this world which blinded the minds of this world. 2 Corinthians 4:4-5 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. [5] For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
Hebrews 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifies the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken(bound?) may remain.

To me it is clear “Until he who is taken out of the way…” regardless of what I’ve been taught for years regarding 2 Thessalonians 2:7-8 For the mystery of iniquity does already work: only he who now lets will let, until he be taken out of the way. [8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming —the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

To me it is clear “Until he who is taken out of the way…” regardless of what I’ve been told by men…Colossians 2:11-14 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision performed without hands, in the removal(taking away) of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, [12] having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. [13] And when you were dead in your wrongdoings and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our wrongdoings, [14] having canceled the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
To me it is clear “Until he who is taken out of the way…” let the Words of God speak

2 Corinthians 3:14
But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ.

To me it is clear “Until he who is taken out of the way…” …the same veil remains unlifted(not yet taken out of the way, because it is removed (taken out of the way) in Christ.… and then…“with the brightness of his coming —the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
—-with a circumcision performed without hands, in the removal(taking away) of the body of the flesh by (because it is removed or taken out of the way by) the circumcision of Christ,

That helps I think with what Paul said 2 Timothy 2:8-9 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: [9] Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ.
I don’t see how anyone can argue “it is removed(taken out of the way) in Christ”

Which may not be desired or welcomed as “what is taken out of the way” so that His glorious Light may shine unto them. Because this is not what men taught which is the church body sadly is waiting to be raptured out —as if they “His redeemed” are the topic of “until he is taken out of way”. I grew up hearing and being taught: when the body of Christ is removed or taken out of the way…then all hell breaks loose. It appears the opposite in when he (the body of flesh is removed) “in Christ” THEN the glorious light of the gospel of Christ shines.

There is indeed a residual confusion of these matters.

In brief (not to repeat the great amount of confusion), the "veil" specifically refers to the blindness of the house of Israel and not the church, for it was a "veil" that constricted the full radiance of God remaining on Moses' face after he came down from the Mount of God.

"He who restrains" or "He who lets" restraining occur, refers rather (specifically) to the times of the gentiles and the church who have come under a similar type of blindness as first came upon Israel, because of the "anti-Christ spirit already at work" spoken of by John; the "false teachers" bringing "destructive doctrines" into the church, foretold by Peter; and the believing of a "lie" causing "strong delusion" and "great apostacy" foretold by Paul ("by the mouth of two or three witnesses")--not to mention the "confusion" placed upon "all language" by God at Babel.

The end of the "restraints" and "confusion" was foretold by Jesus as the fulfillment of Joel's prophecy of God pouring out His spirit "upon all flesh" (meaning upon both the good and on the evil) quite literally causing a spiritual war in heaven, only to be "finished" just before the sounding of the seventh angel (Revelation 10:7), after which comes the end. These events of were foretold to be "sealed" by/to Daniel (Daniel 12:9), and again by/to John (Revelation 10:4)--("by the mouth of two or three witnesses").

 

[ScottA]

No, that is not what the verse I quoted, well the first part, states.

If you do not know where the prophecy is, then as someone who tries to act like a "profit," not being able to recognise where this verse is in the scriptures, tells us all what we already know.

Goodbye

The problem is, you have not made yourself clear. And every time you do that, your fruit of bitterness shows.

But, no, that is not how prophecy works, but rather, "every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which brings forth out of his treasure things new and old."

 

[ScottA]

Last one and then I’m finished.

Ecclesiastes 12:7Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

2 Corinthians 4:16-17 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish(dust will return to the earth as it was), yet the inward man (the spirit will return to God who gave it) is renewed day by day. [17] For our light affliction(dust returning to dust), which is but for a moment, works for us( Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;2 Corinthians 3:5)a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory(being renew day by day);


You may ask where was a question in any of that. Here is the question. I still doubt Scott. I doubt what I think I hear and doubt so much wavering back and forth all the time. Most this wavering comes from all of the many voices I hear each claiming to be right, even in this thread. yet every person is saying something different. I’m including myself which is why I doubt what I think I hear or read. Every person has an opinion on what is being said. Every one of us takes the stance with a cackle towards each other as if—-shaking the head, thinking “you poor delusional ignorant person”. There is no way we are all right yet we all are convinced we are THE ONE who is right. I love your post Scott. But if I’m being honest you scare the daylights out of me. I wonder why you speak as if speaking in a constant Bible verse minus all the “thee”’s and “thou”s. To me you have been given great insight. But I can’t speak like you speak with a commanding authority as if your speech is a bible verse in itself? as if you are speaking in the place of God. All this is what makes me doubt asking “am I just another who likes to hear myself speak?” As if I have all the answers. To be honest I do think I know who the thief is. How he comes. And when. I think I’ve met him. (Jeremiah 15:2-3 And it shall come to pass, if they say unto thee, Where shall we go forth? then you will tell them, this says the LORD; Such as are for death, to death; and such as are for the sword, to the sword; and such as are for the famine, to the famine; and such as are for the captivity, to the captivity. [3] And I will appoint over them four kinds, saith the LORD: the sword to slay, and the dogs to tear, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the earth, to devour and destroy.)
I do think I know what is this magnificent riches God has given and how the end of all this will go. But my biggest question to God is if He wants and desires us to trust His Voice and no other voice ….why then are there so many different voices to where you end up wondering “am I nuts?”

Not to be ugly but to help you understand why I take a step back from your speech. Personally I think you have it backwards. Earlier you asked someone if you should speak the way you speak, or speak more like the world? That can also be said as “should I speak this way, with patience, love, mercy, long suffering, forgiveness, grace, righteousness and truth? Or should I—-would you rather I speak to you as the world speaks in backbiting, slander, gossips, hatred, murder and divisions?”

Does speaking as God or as Christ have to be with a commanding confident voice ….or can speaking as Christ or God be; Let the Fruit of the Spirit of God speak. ” When I think of Paul it wasn’t Paul’s voice but when the Corinthians accused Paul of Christ not speaking in Paul, their wanting proof Christ spoke in Him …it was these Words I hear Christ speak in Paul —not mere tone of voice but action (Alive)
2 Corinthians 13:8-10 For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth. [9] For we are glad, when we are weak, and you are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection. [10] Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction.

Do not despair. You stand with less between you and the kingdom than many here.

As for the voice of many opinions, yes, each expresses according to but a taste. But what do the scriptures say-- to whom is it given that "for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you (Matthew 10:20)?

 

[ScottA]

and you are one of the adept who have been given this sealed understanding? No- even th e past few decades you have to get in line with so many others who declare the same malarkey as you . Once again why should we believe you over the plain words of Scripture?

You ask a question and then answer for your own hearing. Obviously, you intend to answer all your own questions.

As for believing me, don't bother. But if you believe the scriptures, you would believe that the complete mystery of God was to be sealed and not revealed until just before the end, by the same manner which God has declared all prior revelation.

 

[ScottA]

But it was you who said we must be rid of our earthly matter. those are your words not mine.

And it is true--are old man is to be dead to us--even if God has use of it for the time remaining.

 

[ScottA]

anbd that happens at death. I assume you do not believe you are physically dead yet.

Do you not yet understand that "in that day that you eat of it you shall surely die", means before God--in the flesh we are as stillborn?

 

[ScottA]

Once again your ability to know me really sucks.

So are you saying you are o longer flesh and blood? A simple yes or no will do. Please spare this thread all of your mystical musings.

You are known (as we all are) by your fruit.

I am the author of "this thread" and will answer how I see fit: No--but the scriptures say more--and so do I.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

In brief (not to repeat the great amount of confusion), the "veil" specifically refers to the blindness of the house of Israel and not the church, for it was a "veil" that constricted the full radiance of God remaining on Moses' face after he came down from the Mount of God.

I am confused then.

1) Have you ever had a veil over your face or been blind? I think my confusion lies in I have been blind. I’d consider myself needful of the circumcision made without hands and of Christ. For the taking away of the body of sins which is removed in Christ.

I’m not trying to frustrate you too by my not immediately agreeing with you. In addition God is fair and does things equal to where as to the Jews so also it is to the gentiles; that a covering remains until it be taken out of the way.

Including this passage Isaiah 25:7-8
And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. [8] He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD has spoken it.

Scott, I don’t know how else to take that except there is a covering —vail—-cast over all people—that the vail is spread over all nations. That says “all people” “all nations”. ??

 

[Jay Ross]

But, no, that is not how prophecy works, but rather, "every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which brings forth out of his treasure things new and old."

Was not Christ talking about the Salvation Covenant? The Salvation covenant that was in effect from around the time of the creation of Adam, which has now been refreshed/refurbished by the change in the process requirement for the redemption of our sins.

The problem is, you have not made yourself clear. And every time you do that, your fruit of bitterness shows.

I thought that was your forte in your posts.

 

[ScottA]

I am confused then.

1) Have you ever had a veil over your face or been blind? I think my confusion lies in I have been blind. I’d consider myself needful of the circumcision made without hands and of Christ. For the taking away of the body of sins which is removed in Christ.

I’m not trying to frustrate you too by my not immediately agreeing with you. In addition God is fair and does things equal to where as to the Jews so also it is to the gentiles; that a covering remains until it be taken out of the way.

Including this passage Isaiah 25:7-8
And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. [8] He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD has spoken it.

Scott, I don’t know how else to take that except there is a covering —vail—-cast over all people—that the vail is spread over all nations. That says “all people” “all nations”. ??

Okay, good. I was starting with groups...as did Paul, but you are correct, all are ultimately included.

 

[ScottA]

Was not Christ talking about the Salvation Covenant? The Salvation covenant that was in effect from around the time of the creation of Adam, which has now been refreshed/refurbished by the change in the process requirement for the redemption of our sins.

Okay, so now that we have gotten so far off track, where are we? You were saying something about "a time of peace and how long will it last."

 

[Jay Ross]

Okay, so now that we have gotten so far off track, where are we?

First off, ScottA, it was you who posted Matt 13:52, and I responded with my understanding as to what Christ was referring to in this verse. This verse has nothing to do with time. It speaks of scribes who have been instructed on the kingdom of Heaven, that they will bring out of their household treasure something very ancient, from around the time of Adam's creation, that has been renewed/refurbished in line with Daniel 9:24b.

You were saying something about "a time of peace and how long will it last."

I believe that you are referring to this question in a previous post: -

When will God's earth hosts experience a time of peace and how long will it last?

If you have any understanding or training on the Kingdom of Heaven, you would have recognised that I was referring to the Peace covenant that God will undertake for the sake of the Israelites as provided to us by Ezekiel after He, God, begins gathering all of Israel to Himself. I would suggest to you that this gathering of Israel to Himself will begin in round 20 years from now, when the completion of the prophetic word in Exodus 20:4-6 has run to its completion.

I would also suggest to you that this Covenant of Peace between God and Israel will endure for around 1,000 years, after the beginning of God's gathering of Israel to Himself.

I can only assume that this is not new to you.

Goodbye

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Okay, good. I was starting with groups...as did Paul, but you are correct, all are ultimately included.

To be honest that is what I am talking about. To me it was significant even for me to see all the verses that speak on what is taken out of the way. Letting those verses speak of what is taken out of the way and when, how, and by whom is it taken out of the way.

You responded that is confusion for the veil over their eyes when the reading of Moses remains even until this day…was only regarding the house of Israel . Which veil is removed in Christ. My response to you is basically I can’t buy that and discard all those verses speaking of what is taken out of the way, when, how, and by whom is the veil removed—even the removing of the veil being the circumcision made without hands, for the removing of the foreskin of your heart/mind by the circumcision of Christ, in whom the body of sins is taken out of the way, so that then the glorious gospel of Christ shines unto you; the (Glorious!) brightness of his coming that destroys Colossians 2:13-14 - having forgiven us all our wrongdoings, 14 having canceled the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

See Scott, the reason I keep posting it is because you said the vail has nothing to do with that which is taken out of the way, by Christ. Because (if I understood you correctly) there is no vail over any except the house of Israel. Yet He spread out a vail over all people and all nations. The House of Israel was supposed to go help or lead those blinded, but they refused and blinded themselves? (If you had known the peace given unto you, but now it is hid from you). It’s not oh well, yea later He spreads a veil over all people and all nations but it has been there from the beginning of sin. I know this because even when I read the Old Testament there was a time from the beginning of my birth from my momma until the day the vail was taken away in Christ …that I was blind as a Pharisee.

I think it’s beautiful what God has done. For the record I do see how what you said fits with the vail taken out of the way by Christ, the circumcision of the heart made without hands…because all along you have been saying it has to do with plain speech and “a time will come when I will no more speak unto them in parables”.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

This verse has nothing to do with time. It speaks of scribes who have been instructed on the kingdom of Heaven, that they will bring out of their household treasure something very ancient, from around the time of Adam's creation, that has been renewed/refurbished in line with Daniel 9:24b.

Interesting is it begins with Matthew 13:36 And His disciples came to Him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.”

Tell us about the tares…!
Ending with a householder brings out of his treasure things both old and new …reminds me of how many times He asked them how sweet water and bitter water come forth from the same place?
James 3:10-15 Out of the same mouth proceeds blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not be. [11] Does a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? [12] Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. [13] Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him show out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. [14] But if you have bitter envying and strife in your hearts(tell us about the tares, Lord! Instruct us in the ways of the Kingdom!), glory not, and lie not against the truth. [15] This wisdom descends not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

I can see how this conversation might go if Jesus Christ stood with us now …we just heard all He spoke and ask him to “tell us about the tares”

Usually it is said it refers to other people being as the tares. “It is not I!” I shout and raise my hand, urging “yea Lord, tell us about those tares! What about those who are cursed?!”

Interesting He asked His disciples “do you understand all these things?” He just spoke to them. “Yes, we understand! Tell us about the tares!? Tell us about those who are cursed!”

Here is a parable “a householder instructed in the ways of the kingdom of heaven will bring forth out of his treasure(for where your heart that is where your treasure is) a householder will bring forth the old and the New.”

Matthew 12:33-35 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. [34] O generation of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. [35] A good man (Householder) out of the good treasure of the heart brings forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things.

“Lord, lord, tell us about the tares! Tell us about those cursed!”
Have you understood these things? Yes, Lord! Then how can a householder bring forth out of his treasure things both Old and New??? 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.